Madeleine McCann

mgbgt1978

Was it ?
When was that ?
Because it definitely was not 13 years ago.....:rolleyes:

Blanco100

same goons crying about the parents being responsible because they left them unattended are probably the same crowd who are flicking through facebook whilst there kid is up the road on their bike or roaming around the local estate.

splinter65

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The local Portuguese police seem to have made rather a clusterfock if it, and so far it would appear this individual was not very strongly on their radar, for whatever reason.

The Portuguese police decided that the parents or their friends were guilty and that was more or less the end of it. They totally underestimated the amount of press interest there was going to be.

walshb

Blanco100 wrote: »

same goons crying about the parents being responsible because they left them unattended are probably the same crowd who are flicking through facebook whilst there kid is up the road on their bike or roaming around the local estate.

They are responsible. They are their children. They did leave them alone and unattended.

sxt

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Was it ?
When was that ?
Because it definitely was not 13 years ago.....:rolleyes:

Speaking on the Maddie podcast, in a 2019 interview that has accurately foreshadowed today's developments, Mr Amaral confirmed the German had been on the Algarve.

"He was investigated by the [Policia Judiciaria, Portugal's police] at the time [and] when the case ended they discarded him," he said.

"The trailer that he lived in was taken to Germany for testing but nothing was found there."

https://amp.9news.com.au/article/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357

walshb

Looking quite promising as regards maybe them having the man who abducted Madeleine..

splinter65

maebee wrote: »

There is the option that she was groggy from calpol, had an accident and died and that her death was covered up to excuse the parents' negligence. I don't know if that happened and neither does anyone here.

As you know, I am among many who never believed the parents' version of events. Maybe if Kate McCann had answered the police questions I would have some faith in them.

Yes, this child did disappear.

If you think that’s a possibility then you need to have some idea how when and where it happened. I’ve asked you before to try and give me a time line. I’ve asked loads of people who don’t believe the McCanns over all these years and I never get an answer. To me if you can’t back up your allegations then your just smearing people.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Strumms wrote: »

They are guilty of a catastrophic error of judgement, as a result they’ve suffered an unimaginable and catastrophic loss...

Couldn’t have said it better. I usually try not to be on the fence about topics but this is one where I genuinely am. I think both an abduction or parental involvement are both possible and I never thought there was enough information to decide either way. And if it was an abduction, it’s like you say: yes, they were incredibly irresponsible but they paid the ultimate price for that serious lapse in judgement. So I would still consider them victims. How does sanctimony help here?

ShatterAlan

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Do a lie detector test on the prisoner and a lie detector test on the parents, do it live on prime time tv.

And what will that accomplish? Exactly?

salmocab

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And what will that accomplish? Exactly?

Keep a baying mob happy?

ceadaoin.

maebee wrote: »

There is the option that she was groggy from calpol, had an accident and died and that her death was covered up to excuse the parents' negligence. I don't know if that happened and neither does anyone here.

As you know, I am among many who never believed the parents' version of events. Maybe if Kate McCann had answered the police questions I would have some faith in them.

Yes, this child did disappear.

Calpol is just paracetamol. It would not make anyone "groggy", there is nothing that causes drowsiness in it. I've read that the parents gave the kids "something" to keep them asleep but is this an actual fact or just a theory? If they admitted to giving calpol, well that doesn't imply that at all.

screamer

Unless or until a body is found all any of us can do is speculate. Were the parents involved? Possibly, maybe not none of us know. Was she abducted? Possibly, maybe not again we don’t know.
So in the absence of knowing people speculate, it’s what we do, and no one has the high moral ground because none of us know what really happened.

I do think though, that even if a body is found, we’ll be no closer to knowing who was responsible for her death than we are now, as there will be no DNA or anything to analyse. I still think this will end in nothing, like so many other leads over the years.

retro:electro

walshb wrote: »

They are responsible. They are their children. They did leave them alone and unattended.

They are responsible for leaving them alone. They are not responsible for a potential abduction, or whatever happened to her after that. The creep who took her is responsible for that. Or would you prefer to see Kate and Gerry locked up and whoever took her be left of Scott free? After all, “they are responsible”.

Yes they made a massive mistake. You know that, I know that, everyfcukingone knows that. No one knows it more than they do as 13 years later they are still without their daughter. What purpose does it serve to continually shame them for that? They paid the ultimate price. It’s almost like people think because they left her they deserve to have lost her.
That’s messed up.

mgbgt1978

sxt wrote: »

Speaking on the Maddie podcast, in a 2019 interview that has accurately foreshadowed today's developments, Mr Amaral confirmed the German had been on the Algarve.

"He was investigated by the [Policia Judiciaria, Portugal's police] at the time [and] when the case ended they discarded him," he said.

"The trailer that he lived in was taken to Germany for testing but nothing was found there."

https://amp.9news.com.au/article/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357

Just misunderstanding the Facts so....:rolleyes:.
Amaral said in 2019 that the Camper Van (I'm not going down the pidgeon english road and saying 'Trailer') had been examined in Germany . He deliberately didn't say when this happened. It has been widely reported that the German police were unable to find anything incriminating in the Camper due to the passage of time. This is because they didn't seize it until late 2018.


Can you show anything that even hints that this Camper was examined in 2007 ?

sxt

splinter65 wrote: »

If you think that’s a possibility then you need to have some idea how when and where it happened. I’ve asked you before to try and give me a time line. I’ve asked loads of people who don’t believe the McCanns over all these years and I never get an answer. To me if you can’t back up your allegations then your just smearing people.

That was the joint conclusion by both the British and Portuguese investigators involved in this case. This was thier conclusion after years of investigating. That was what they signed off on when they gave their final report to the Public prosecutor

uncleoswald

screamer wrote: »

Unless or until a body is found all any of us can do is speculate. Were the parents involved? Possibly, maybe not none of us know. Was she abducted? Possibly, maybe not again we don’t know.
So in the absence of knowing people speculate, it’s what we do, and no one has the high moral ground because none of us know what really happened.

No, there are people 'speculating' that they are positive the McCanns did it. And accusing them of doing it at every opportunity. They have the moral low ground.

I could 'speculate' that you did all manner of crimes.

Babooshka

sxt wrote: »

That was the joint conclusion by both the British and Portuguese investigators involved in this case. This was thier conclusion after years of investigating. That was what they signed off on when they gave their final report to the Public prosecutor

British investigation concluded that the McCanns did it....really???

sxt

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Just misunderstanding the Facts so....:rolleyes:.
Amaral said in 2019 that the Camper Van (I'm not going down the pidgeon english road and saying 'Trailer') had been examined in Germany . He deliberately didn't say when this happened. It has been widely reported that the German police were unable to find anything incriminating in the Camper due to the passage of time. This is because they didn't seize it until late 2018.


Can you show anything that even hints that this Camper was examined in 2007 ?

Of course I can't, but if your being investigated in a high profile case like this.. I have to presume they would be interested in his camper van

And the vehicles and whereabouts of all other persons of interest in the area at the time

walshb

retro:electro wrote: »

They are responsible for leaving them alone. They are not responsible for a potential abduction, or whatever happened to her after that. The creep who took her is responsible for that. Or would you prefer to see Kate and Gerry locked up and whoever took her be left of Scott free? After all, “they are responsible”.

Yes they made a massive mistake. You know that, I know that, everyfcukingone knows that. No one knows it more than they do as 13 years later they are still without their daughter. What purpose does it serve to continually shame them for that? They paid the ultimate price. It’s almost like people think because they left her they deserve to have lost her.
That’s messed up.

They are responsible for their children’s safety..

And leaving three very young children alone and unattended is irresponsible...

Out of sight and ear shot. Not unattended in the next room..Out of sight!! Unreachable if anything g bad happened..

Yes, they didn’t abduct her. But their actions allowed someone else to..

I am not shaming them. I feel for them. Heartbreaking...But their choices led to the loss of that child.

And their choice was reckless and completely unnecessary..

sxt

Babooshka wrote: »

British investigation concluded that the McCanns did it....really???

Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida told the court that he believed the couple, from Rothley, Leicestershire, were directly involved in Madeleine’s disappearance – a theory he said was shared by Portuguese and British officers working on the case.

He said: “The conclusion that was arrived at was that Madeleine McCann died at the apartment and the McCann couple simulated the abduction to hide the fact that they had not taken care of their children.

“There was a tragic accident in the apartment that night and they neglected the care of their children. It was the conclusion of both Portuguese and British police. We have always spoken of a tragic accidental death. There was no homicide.”

Babooshka

walshb wrote: »

They are responsible for their children’s safety..

And leaving three very young children alone and unattended is irresponsible...

Yes, they didn’t abduct then. But their actions allowed someone else to..

Yes...thanks. None of us knew this. After every rambling, finger pointing, high horse riding holier than thou poster on every single thread about this case. Ad nauseum. We didn't know. Thanks.

walshb

Babooshka wrote: »

Yes...thanks. None of us knew this. After every rambling, finger pointing, high horse riding holier than thou poster on every single thread about this case. Ad nauseum. We didn't know. Thanks.

Great. So you agree with my post, then?

splinter65

sxt wrote: »

That was the joint conclusion by both the British and Portuguese investigators involved in this case. This was thier conclusion after years of investigating. That was what they signed off on when they gave their final report to the Public prosecutor

Have you a link to where the British police came to the conclusion that the parents were involved. Thanks.

Babooshka

walshb wrote: »

Great. So you agree with my post, then?

I agree that they presented an opportunity to an evil ****. Yes. Does that make you feel all wonderful inside? Enjoy. You're welcome.

retro:electro

walshb wrote: »

They are responsible for their children’s safety..

And leaving three very young children alone and unattended is irresponsible...

Out of sight and ear shot. Not unattended in the next room..Out of sight!! Unreachable if anything g bad happened..

Yes, they didn’t abduct then. But their actions allowed someone else to..

I am not shaming them. I feel for them. Heartbreaking...But their choices led to the loss of that child.

And their choice was reckless and completely unnecessary..

Everyone knows it was irresponsible. What purpose does it serve to obsessively bring it up 13 years later and constantly berate them over, as if it’s a matter of fact that happened to bypass us all? Everyone knows it was irresponsible. No one knows it more than they do. Do you not see the pain etched on Kate’s face? How can people still consistently bash them for something they are paying the ultimate price for, and some do it with such malice. They made a catastrophic error in judgement. Did they deserve to lose their child for it? No. They are victims too.

Babooshka

sxt wrote: »

Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida told the court that he believed the couple, from Rothley, Leicestershire, were directly involved in Madeleine’s disappearance – a theory he said was shared by Portuguese and British officers working on the case.

He said: “The conclusion that was arrived at was that Madeleine McCann died at the apartment and the McCann couple simulated the abduction to hide the fact that they had not taken care of their children.

“There was a tragic accident in the apartment that night and they neglected the care of their children. It was the conclusion of both Portuguese and British police. We have always spoken of a tragic accidental death. There was no homicide.”

Which British officials were quoted by the Portuguese Police or is it just anecdotal hearsay and nothing official? Thanks

splinter65

Babooshka wrote: »

British investigation concluded that the McCanns did it....really???

They didn’t. But the poster is going to point us now to this report from the British police that they did. Any minute now.

Babooshka

retro:electro wrote: »

Everyone knows it was irresponsible. What purpose does it serve to obsessively bring it up 13 years later and constantly berate them over, as if it’s a matter of fact that happened to bypass us all? Everyone knows it was irresponsible. No one knows it more than they do. Do you not see the pain etched on Kate’s face? How can people still consistently bash them for something they are paying the ultimate price for, and some do it with such malice. They made a catastrophic error in judgement. Did they deserve to lose their child for it? No. They are victims too.

That's exactly what I was getting at. It doesn't need to be repeated ad nauseum with such self righteousness.

splinter65

sxt wrote: »

Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida told the court that he believed the couple, from Rothley, Leicestershire, were directly involved in Madeleine’s disappearance – a theory he said was shared by Portuguese and British officers working on the case.

He said: “The conclusion that was arrived at was that Madeleine McCann died at the apartment and the McCann couple simulated the abduction to hide the fact that they had not taken care of their children.

“There was a tragic accident in the apartment that night and they neglected the care of their children. It was the conclusion of both Portuguese and British police. We have always spoken of a tragic accidental death. There was no homicide.”

If this is an official report into the investigation then it should be easy for you post a link. Honestly, I can read it myself.

retro:electro

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Calpol is just paracetamol. It would not make anyone "groggy", there is nothing that causes drowsiness in it. I've read that the parents gave the kids "something" to keep them asleep but is this an actual fact or just a theory? If they admitted to giving calpol, well that doesn't imply that at all.

Not to mention that Kate was a trained anesthesiologist and we are meant to believe that she delivered an overdose of Calpol, (an over the counter pain relief, not a sedative) a dose so high it either severely incapacitated Madeleine or it was fatal. These theories are laughable.

mgbgt1978

sxt wrote: »

He was identified, questioned, and his camper van was forensically examined 13 years ago

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Just misunderstanding the Facts so....:rolleyes:.
Amaral said in 2019 that the Camper Van (I'm not going down the pidgeon english road and saying 'Trailer') had been examined in Germany . He deliberately didn't say when this happened. It has been widely reported that the German police were unable to find anything incriminating in the Camper due to the passage of time. This is because they didn't seize it until late 2018.


Can you show anything that even hints that this Camper was examined in 2007 ?

sxt wrote: »

Of course I can't, but if your being investigated in a high profile case like this.. I have to presume they would be interested in his camper van

And the vehicles and whereabouts of all other persons of interest in the area at the time

I wouldn't waste my time arguing with opinions on this Thread.
However when somebody states something as fact, there has to be proof that this fact is correct.
The truth is that despite your initial assertion that this Camper was examined 13 years ago, it was first examined by the German Police almost 12 years after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
I really don't care what you believe, but at least get your facts correct.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I wonder would you be so protective of the McCann's if they were living on a council estate in Bradford and not 2 doctors? I doubt it. I suppose you feel compelled to rush to the defense of your betters for some reason.

_Brian wrote: »

This.
The McCans behaved terribly, possibly illegally abandoning their kids in an unsecure apartment in a strange country to go drinking with their mates.

The fact that they are Doctors got them a free pass on proper scrutiny over this and lots of people threw them easy money afterwards because surely these decent people could do no wrong.

Anyone else and the rest of the kids would be taken into care.

I can’t believe people are still making this fallacious point. The McCanns have been absolutely crucified in the media. And IMO, their background and class has been used against them a lot. There’s reverse snobbery going on a bit.

screamer

uncleoswald wrote: »

No, there are people 'speculating' that they are positive the McCanns did it. And accusing them of doing it at every opportunity. They have the moral low ground.

I could 'speculate' that you did all manner of crimes.

But it’s still just speculation, regardless. The problem is your reaction to it........ I personally don’t understand why people get so riled up to villify or protect 2 complete strangers being honest, it’s strange.

Demonique

splinter65 wrote: »

Why wouldn’t they have custody of their twins?!?

Because their negligence meant someone was able to abduct one of their children

Babooshka

screamer wrote: »

But it’s still just speculation, regardless. The problem is your reaction to it........ I personally don’t understand why people get so riled up to villify or protect 2 complete strangers being honest, it’s strange.

Because even "strangers" deserve basic human decency and the little trolls name calling and the vile things they've said about the McCanns, when they wouldn't even do the same to a stranger on the street...you don't understand why that's not acceptable, just because we're all anonymous and strangers?

Think they're guilty if you like, but the absolute vitriol posted up by some is just utterly disgusting. And they don't speak about them as if they're "strangers"...they speak about them as if they know them as cold hearted murderers that they know very well. They would treat "strangers" better.

Spanish Eyes

Isn't it strange though that the younger twins never woke up at all during the mayhem when it was discovered that Madeleine was missing/gone?

Drowsy anti histamines administered is my bet. That is not to say the parents killed Madeleine or anything like it, but think about it FGS. The whole thing stinks IMO.

We can have opinions can't we?

I await the opprobrium heading my way....

SlowBlowin

retro:electro wrote: »

Everyone knows it was irresponsible. What purpose does it serve to obsessively bring it up 13 years later and constantly berate them over, as if it’s a matter of fact that happened to bypass us all? Everyone knows it was irresponsible. No one knows it more than they do. Do you not see the pain etched on Kate’s face? How can people still consistently bash them for something they are paying the ultimate price for, and some do it with such malice. They made a catastrophic error in judgement. Did they deserve to lose their child for it? No. They are victims too.

Yet the McCanns insist that they thought it was safe. Gerry said that they sought legal advice afterwards and had been assured that what they did was "well within the bounds of reasonable parenting".

peddlelies

Looks like it's him. Some closure finally for the McCanns couldn't have been easy with every second person accusing them of hiding something, I'm sure I did myself at one point due to those cadaver dogs.

retro:electro

But sure look, I’ve been around the block enough on these threads to know that there is a considerable cohort who are dedicated to shaming and blaming the parents at all costs, lack of evidence be damned. They have dreamt up a narrative, and will stick to it at all costs. Even if it is this guy, they are so indoctrinated and committed to being “right” that they will insist the parents must have been involved with this guy. Just don’t ask them how or why or when they could have done it. Because you won’t get an answer to that. Just deflection. But it speaks more about the type of people they are than anything else.

2u2me

Babooshka wrote: »

Think they're guilty if you like, but the absolute vitriol posted up by some is just utterly disgusting. And they don't speak about them as if they're "strangers"...they speak about them as if they know them as cold hearted murderers that they know very well. They would treat "strangers" better.

Are you talking about in this thread or somewhere else, I'm thinking I'm reading a different thread to you.

uncleoswald

screamer wrote: »

But it’s still just speculation, regardless. The problem is your reaction to it........ I personally don’t understand why people get so riled up to villify or protect 2 complete strangers being honest, it’s strange.

Speculating is not the same as accusing and vilifying. I'm not riled up but I find your lack of empathy a little weird.

So if a loved one of yours died and people started accusing you of murder you'd be ok with that? And if people started to tell those accusers to leave you alone you'd tell them not to bother because sure it's no harm?

screamer

Babooshka wrote: »

Because even "strangers" deserve basic human decency and the little trolls name calling and the vile things they've said about the McCanns, when they wouldn't even do the same to a stranger on the street...you don't understand why that's not acceptable, just because we're all anonymous and strangers?

Think they're guilty if you like, but the absolute vitriol posted up by some is just utterly disgusting. And they don't speak about them as if they're "strangers"...they speak about them as if they know them as cold hearted murderers that they know very well. They would treat "strangers" better.

Again, it’s only speculation, nothing can or has been proven, and you’re letting yourself get riled up over it.
I think more to myself when I read posts like this. what basic human decency did Madeline deserve? after all she paid the ultimate price the poor little thing.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Yet the McCanns insist that they thought it was safe. Gerry said that they sought legal advice afterwards and had been assured that what they did was "well within the bounds of reasonable parenting".

Are the McCanns everyone? And if they thought it was safe, they soon learned otherwise. I mean, what else is a solicitor (or anyone) going to say to them? Gerry McCann even looking for that assurance speaks volumes.

screamer

uncleoswald wrote: »

Speculating is not the same as accusing and vilifying. I'm not riled up but I find your lack of empathy a little weird.

So if a loved one of yours died and people started accusing you of murder you'd be ok with that? And if people started to tell those accusers to leave you alone you'd tell them not to bother because sure it's no harm?

People will always speculate or gossip, since time began, you won’t change that. My sympathy is with Madeline who I think is very much forgotten about in the keyboard warrior wars.

Babooshka

2u2me wrote: »

Are you talking about in this thread or somewhere else, I'm thinking I'm reading a different thread to you.

Many threads. Many many.

uncleoswald

screamer wrote: »

People will always speculate or gossip, since time began, you won’t change that. My sympathy is with Madeline who I think is very much forgotten about in the keyboard warrior wars.

I didn't know that sympathy was in such limited supply that it couldn't also extend to the parents.

splinter65

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I can’t believe people are still making this fallacious point. The McCanns have been absolutely crucified in the media. And IMO, their background and class has been used against them a lot. There’s reverse snobbery going on a bit.

It’s just jealously and begrudgery. The cheek of someone with an accent like kate pulling herself up by her bootstraps. And she nabbed herself a doctor on the way. Bloody cheeky bitch thinks she’s better then us.

John_Rambo

Demonique wrote: »

Because their negligence meant someone was able to abduct one of their children

Yes, they probably dressed her in a short dress too.

Probably "Asking for it" and the abductor was "only acting on his impulses" in your weird little perverse, warped, victim blaming internet world.

retro:electro

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Yet the McCanns insist that they thought it was safe. Gerry said that they sought legal advice afterwards and had been assured that what they did was "well within the bounds of reasonable parenting".

I’m sure they know by now that their actions were completely reckless. I will admit I do at times find them a little proud and lacking in humility, but I’d put that down to them being defensive in the face of what was a swath of universal criticism. But yes, they would have “won over” more people had they held their hands up from the start and admitted they fcuked up. I’ve always held that view.

But they acted in defence of their actions and people judge them for that, but they also had their other two children to think of there and I’m sure after losing Madeline they didn’t want to lose them too. I find it hard to believe they don’t know by now that what they did was wrong, 13 years later when they are still without their daughter.

screamer

uncleoswald wrote: »

I didn't know that sympathy was in such limited supply that it couldn't also extend to the parents.

Sure they’ve plenty of sympathetic randomers to commiserate with them online, I’m sure my lack of it will not affect them in the slightest.