Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

Max Powers wrote: »

not so sure, 4 independents may scream and shout but nobody will listen, I reckon having decent candidates in the party in power is probably way to achieve best possible results (in current backward/corrupt system at least), unfortunately, it seems just because we have a good case for some investment, isn't enough, we need people to be able to influence those in charge.
on saying that, john halligan has been a good TD in terms of contribution to national debate, most commentators and papers seem to agree and respect him, what investment has he brought to Waterford?, nothing probably. Always possibility of some sort of independent support for main party to influence but there are so many independents out there, bargaining position is weak and there are independents closer to main party out there.

I cant see a tech uni. a great game changer, it will be basically a name change without investment. IDA/govt will find another excuse to ignore us, throw us a couple of million to tart-up a street and say, that's them sorted for 4 years. prioritising the SE/Waterford would be a game changer, change the grants, proper support by IDA, a regional director etc.

I'd agree with the comments regarding independents. One or two would do no harm, but at the end of the day they're outside of the tent. Perhaps in the next election there might be a coalition which will involve independents, but this will be very much an unusual next GE. Most middle ranking Civil Servants would have more influence on policy than the independents would.

jennygirl wrote: »

i work with Eddie on a couple of committees, he is a hard grafter, does his research well, presents his arguments well, and is very pro Waterford
his favourite quote is "doing it for the jersey" - we don't want discounts, or affiliates, we want people to work for the city because the want it to do better -
he gets my vote - every time
he was thinking of running with a party - but thought he could do more as an independent locally -think he is right

MICKEY MARTIN'S JERSEY

There's our problem. Companies locate in places where facilities exist to make their lives easier.

By making sure those facilities don't exist or aren't provided in one city, by default you ruin it's chances. You can bring the IDA to visit then as often as you like, knowing full well you won't have Dublin/Cork/Galway and Limerick screaming because you took some of their potential away.

I cannot think of a better way to ruin the potential of this city than to keep doing as this govt seems to be doing down here.

If they wanted this place to prosper (at the expense of the other regions because the cake is finite), they'd have the runway and university sorted.

Transport links - check
Top education status - check

Easily done. Easily avoided too though.

space2ground1 wrote: »

There's our problem. Companies locate in places where facilities exist to make their lives easier.

By making sure those facilities don't exist or aren't provided in one city, by default you ruin it's chances. You can bring the IDA to visit then as often as you like, knowing full well you won't have Dublin/Cork/Galway and Limerick screaming because you took some of their potential away.

I cannot think of a better way to ruin the potential of this city than to keep doing as this govt seems to be doing down here.

If they wanted this place to prosper (at the expense of the other regions because the cake is finite), they'd have the runway and university sorted.

Transport links - check
Top education status - check

Easily done. Easily avoided too though.

The cake might be finite but its not that finite. We have the facilities, The FT report proves that. If there was a problem locating jobs here then there would be no FDI at all and we know this is not the case. When the can get the finger out they can. It has nothing to do with Shannon and it hhas nothing to so with the University or lack of. It is IDA intransigence full stop.

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

The cake might be finite but its not that finite. We have the facilities, The FT report proves that. If there was a problem locating jobs here then there would be no FDI at all and we know this is not the case. When the can get the finger out they can. It has nothing to do with Shannon and it hhas nothing to so with the University or lack of. It is IDA intransigence full stop.

The FT report proves absolutely nothing. That was simply the opinion of one publication. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I should also point out that Kilkenny only had 8 IDA visits in 10 years, and none in 2011. Wateford had 26 visits in 2012 and 12 visits in the first half of 2013. That represents around 75% of the IDA visits to the South East each year. Kilkenny has been fortunate that Glanbia in particular has been doing well.

AdMMM wrote: »

That's exactly my point.

I don't think any of us are blaming the multinationals for locating in areas of operational convenience, we're blaming the Government for the lack of investment in the area to create those ideal conditions, or at the very least intervene to ensure what favourable conditions existed, remained through the recession e.g. Waterford -> London route.

Again, this isn't just leveled at the current Government, it's pointed at successive Governments that ensured Waterford was never growing as fast as other cities (but easily available credit papered over those cracks for a while), putting it in a position where it wasn't strong enough during the recession.

Of course the same can be said for many other towns across the country.

Yes, you could easily question why didn't we spend modest amounts of money to upgrade airports and rail links when money was plentiful.

In the last number of years, faced with the prospect of losing FDI, I think there was an approach of going for the quick wins, playing the percentages of prioritising the larger cities. If the IDA was told, "it's either Dublin or we're looking at another country", then you can see there was very little wiggle room.

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

It proves your a spoofer that's for sure. Inside knowledge indeed!. The FT is a publication with a global reputation. The IDA visits are done by the direction of the IDA and not foreign multinationals.. Again your just regurgitating what you read in the paper. The IDA have admitted they are biased towards specific regions. You either missed that or it is nor palatable for you. If a CEO or someone of technical expertise needs to get to Waterford quickly by plane he can. London or Dublin and then a chartered aircraft which is frequently done. We have a corrupt polical elite in this country which has been traditionally over represented with Politicians from Galway, Cork and Dublin South East since 1922. This is a veifiable fact! Distance to Shannon airport is a red herring. It is 90 minutes away not 90 hrs. Strange it did not prevent Genzyme from locating here which is in actuality is probably the most important piece of FDI located here from an international point of view.

I'm clearly not discussing this with a rational person. Rather than regurtitating what is written in newspapers, I'm actually talking to some of the decision makers involved and people running the operations of the multinational sites already located here. I'm acutely aware of the challenges they face in attracting and maintaining investment, and the opportunites that exist here.

The FT stated that Waterford was runner up to Galway as European micro city of the year. It stated that Waterford had potential, without doubt. If you want to believe that Waterford has yet to fully achieve the potential which one publication has identified due to some sort of corrupt plot then that's your own business.

I did actually miss when the IDA admitted that they are biased towards specific regions - can you produce that?

Genzyme came to Waterford in 2001. That was a very different time, getting sites and staff was a very different game - there weren't as many options to choose from. The current landscape is very, very different.

A CEO might be able to charter a flight after already getting to a major city, but there would want to be a very good reason for doing so. The reality is that if an investment is made, dozens of flights will be required for teams of staff back and forth every month. Travelling 90 mins before getting your flight, before even starting work becomes a pain in the neck I can assure you.

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Again you have produced nothing only hearsay and information that frequently appears in newspapers that is typically trumpeted by politicians and their cronies alike. Like this guy: Sean Dorgan from Cork political appointee to theIDA by one Bertie Ahern:

http://www.independent.ie/business/dorgan-is-surprise-choice-to-head-up-ida-26174554.html

Or former Minister for Education Batt O’Keefe and former lecturer at CIT who consistently lead the opposition to the University upgrade for WIT. Appointed to thecabinet when the WIT efforts were in full throttle. All you have done is produce hackneyed excuses as facts to put as an obstacle to any assertion that Waterford should not be doing so dismally when compared to Galway.

For all we know you are just some Billy Liar pretending to be in the know which seeing as you have provided no evidence at all makes this indeed the most likely scenario. I say this because you clearly haven’teven travelled on a business flight if you think workers regularly commute from the states or anywhere else to immediately start work in a facility. Workers on assignment are typically given twenty four hours rest before commencing their activities. For high executives the chartered flights are used. For anyone else the normal airport distance is more than sufficient.

So before you go asking me to produce links or anything else have the decency to back your own argument up with something of substance first. I have produced a report from the foremost economic publication in the world which puts us ahead of Galway for FDI strategy and shines a glaring light on the failure of this government to tackle the jobs issue. You on the other keep coming out with ad hoc statementslike 2001 was “a different time” with regard to Waterford. If anything the fundamental situation has improved relative to the other cities. TSSG was not there and the motorway and bypass was not there. Also if what you are saying is true which it is obviously not then Limerick would be much better positioned to capitalize than Galway due to Shannon airport but it obviously is not doing so.Why? Politics that’s why! So get a grip. It’s not me that is irrational or illogical. Once again! Who should we “rationally” believe.? The Financial Times?,some Gombeen Irish politician/appointee or an anonymous internet poster with ideas above his station?

You use very strong and accusatory language throughout your posts. You accuse the IDA of admitting to be biased. I ask you to produce evidence, but you cannot or will not.

You find one publication that rates Waterford as ahead of Galway in one category which was measured, but keep omitting the fact that Galway had a higher overall ranking than Waterford.

Limerick struggles with huge social issues which place a big drain on the city. Lets just say that you have to be very rigorous when checking references and getting Garda clearance for new staff down there.

I'll ask you a straight question: how much investment did Waterford get from the 26 IDA site visits in 2012? Or the 11 visits in 2011, and the 13 visits in the first 6 months of 2013? If there is so much potential, why do business people keep saying no to the place!?

I'll really annoy you now, is Waterford benefiting from political bias compared to the other counties in the region? Why does Waterford get about 75% of the IDA visits to the region? Shouldn't the people of Kilkenny, Wexford and Carlow not be up in arms over that!?

hardybuck wrote: »

You use very strong and accusatory language throughout your posts. You accuse the IDA of admitting to be biased. I ask you to produce evidence, but you cannot or will not.

You find one publication that rates Waterford as ahead of Galway in one category which was measured, but keep omitting the fact that Galway had a higher overall ranking than Waterford.

Limerick struggles with huge social issues which place a big drain on the city. Lets just say that you have to be very rigorous when checking references and getting Garda clearance for new staff down there.

I'll ask you a straight question: how much investment did Waterford get from the 26 IDA site visits in 2012? Or the 11 visits in 2011, and the 13 visits in the first 6 months of 2013? If there is so much potential, why do business people keep saying no to the place!?

I'll really annoy you now, is Waterford benefiting from political bias compared to the other counties in the region? Why does Waterford get about 75% of the IDA visits to the region? Shouldn't the people of Kilkenny, Wexford and Carlow not be up in arms over that!?

No the people of Kilkenny shouldn’t be up in arms for the simple reason that Waterford City is on the border with Kilkenny and is close to the border of three other counties. Therfore Waterford is the urban centre for much of the population of those counties. For about 30000 people living in South Kilkenny Waterford is in easier reach than Kilkenny is. A visit to Waterford is effectively a visit to Kilkenny Also the simple fact is the visits are nothing if they are not yielding anything. The people in Kilkenny should be up in arms about the South East having the highest unemployment in the country including Kilkenny and Waterford. The people in Kilkenny should be up in arms about this particularly as Waterford a comparable city to Galway according to the FT is not being incentivized properly. The one publication I found makes a mockery of anything you have provided which is nothing. The FT as a business publication makes an Irish newspaper look like the parish news letter. And unless you have been living under a stone you will know that Waterford is experiencing political bias under this and previous governments. But this one is particularly bad. Why does Waterford not yield anything from visits? Maybe because the IDA has never bothered to build any decent industrial infrastructure here. Like they have in Galway or even much smaller places like Dundalk. Who knows because there is a complete lack of transparency. Maybe because Galway has preferential treatment with regard to grants and tax breaks which is another fact! And your contention about Limerick is laughable! Are you seriously saying that Limerick can’t provide skilled labor because they are all criminals? Give me a f*cking break. With regard to Galway having a higher overall ranking in the FT report you are clutching at this blade of grass like your life depended on it. Galway is only marginally higher ergo Job creation should be only marginally higher.But with regard to FDI strategy Wwaterford ranks higher and FDI is what we are talking about. If all other things were equal like Tax incentives and government transfers Waterford would probably be light years ahead like it was before that corrupt little political cesspool called Dail Eireann came into existence.

hardybuck wrote: »

So to summarise, Waterford is struggling and it's everybody else's fault for not giving you jobs?

No I never mentioned "everybody else". But it is obvious now by the use of the word "you" that you're not from Waterford. Surprise! Surprise! But the blame game is something else that has worked better for other counties in the country in particular the west along with basic pan handling. Perhaps if we develop a whiny nasal accent like some of our neighbours and a massive sense of unjustified entitlement we might have more luck. But lets not get carried away here. An equitable business environment will suffice!

Max Powers wrote: »

prob a bit bit harsh there hardybuck, all we are looking for is a level playing field for our city (with comparable other regional cities) and regions (SE). by that I mean in terms of education facilities, grants, FDI, tax breaks, govt jobs etc etc

Perhaps I'm being harsh on someone who is ranting and raving. If you do that, you become noise. You blank out noise - you don't listen to it.

In this weeks Munster they have a Q&A with all the City East candidates, noticed that none of the FG candidates took part although they were asked. Bad decision IMHO.

LiamD1977 wrote: »

In this weeks Munster they have a Q&A with all the City East candidates, noticed that none of the FG candidates took part although they were asked. Bad decision IMHO.

They didn't take part because their masters have betrayed not alone the City but the country. All of them were complicit Liam.

Interesting figures regarding disposable incomes around the country.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disposable-incomes-in-dublin-11-9-above-state-average-1.1771145

CSO here define disposable income as your total income (wages, rental income, dividends, social benefits etc.) less taxes and social contributions.

I was surprised by how high the Waterford ranking was - 10th, behind Limerick, but marginally ahead of Galway and way ahead of Kilkenny.

What is also quite telling is that only 4 areas are above the state average.

However, if you factored in things like rents and mortgages, which are becoming a huge issue again for people living in and Dublin and surrounding counties, you might have a very different story.