Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

junebabies · 15-07-2020 9:17pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Won't this encourage increase house parties more now?

You can only have 10 people indoors from 4 different households max. I presume this is to stop the house parties.

junebabies · 15-07-2020 9:18pm

KiKi III wrote: »

A house party with 10-20 of your friends is way, way less dangerous than a night out in 2-3 venues each of which have scores of staff and customers.

Max of 10 indoors now and only from 4 different households.

hmmm · 15-07-2020 9:29pm

fortwilliam wrote: »

I get it, I really do, but why the focus on pubs?
I got a haircut today in the Grafton Barber where a nice barber cut my hair with no social distancing (Completely within guidance)
I just don't get the focus on the boozer...

Because we had to spread out the reopening, and pubs were left towards the end because they were high risk.

As it is I don't see how we reopen schools. So opening pubs now when cases are tottering on the edge of getting dangerous would be a poor decision, as it would mean choosing pubs over schools. If cases don't start increasing, we can move on to pubs.

Nightclubs will never reopen before a vaccine. That's my view. Any kind of indoor venue which can't reasonably enforce social distancing is extremely problematic - unfortunately that includes weddings etc.

The good news is vaccines are progressing well. It will be a hell of a party when the vaccines become available.

Poorside · 15-07-2020 9:50pm

junebabies wrote: »

You can only have 10 people indoors from 4 different households max. I presume this is to stop the house parties.

And who is going to actually police that? Guards come to your door, you don't have to let them in without a warrant.

Coillte_Bhoy · 15-07-2020 9:58pm

junebabies wrote: »

Max of 10 indoors now and only from 4 different households.

What about only 8 but from 5 different households? Its a pile of nonsense at this stage, i can see the rationale behind the guidelines but its unenforceable and nobody is taking it seriously anymore

ixoy · 15-07-2020 10:09pm

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

People in other countries obey rules and wear masks.

Do they actually do it out of civil duty, do it only because they'll actually get punished or instead just also follow the Irish line? I asked a friend in Germany for example, where fines and all are more strictly enforced, and he said not everyone even there was wearing masks on public transport. The attitude is not just an Irish one.

hmmm · 15-07-2020 10:16pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

What about only 8 but from 5 different households? Its a pile of nonsense at this stage, i can see the rationale behind the guidelines but its unenforceable and nobody is taking it seriously anymore

Very little of this is enforceable, that's not the type of country we are. It's your personal decision whether to be part of the national effort or not.

Lots of people are taking it seriously. A minority of loud and mostly obnoxious people are not.

Risteard81 · 15-07-2020 10:46pm

Tig98 wrote: »

I understand everyone giving out but I think it's justified.

Was up North after the pubs reopened and it was pure bedlam. They attempted to space out tables in pubs but no social distancing what so ever in the toilets, smoking areas or outside the pubs themselves. Big crowds of people milling around together. There will definitely be a surge up there in the coming weeks.

Food service and maybe a few pints in a tightly monitored setting is okay for the moment

There won't be a surge because the so-called disease simply isn't here.

The State has no right to shut any business or to tell people how to live their lives.

All pubs should open in spite of this edict. The criminals in Leinster House must go.

Whitehorse · 15-07-2020 10:50pm

Do all pubs not have an official capacity limit on their licence. If this was capped at say 50% it would be easy enough to monitor and if they breach it they are closed and licence suspended for a month. Those obeying the rules could at least get back trading .

almostover · 15-07-2020 10:57pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The people who make these decisions dont spend time drinking pints in pubs

They hate them

This is it in a nutshell, it's like back when not wearing a seatbelt became illegal. A minor inconvenience to protect yourself and others. But people waste all their energy p*ssing and moaning about it. Just wear the mask in shops and on public transport. It's not that hard.

My employer has made mask wearing mandatory on their premises and a person is sent home if they don't wear it or don't wear it properly. Proper order and nobody has complained

almostover · 15-07-2020 10:59pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The people who make these decisions dont spend time drinking pints in pubs

They hate them

We have a seriously unhealthy relationship with alcohol in this country, this week has exposed that. People going nuts that the pubs wont open in a pandemic and people trying to excuse a drunk driving TD.

almostover · 15-07-2020 11:00pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

What about only 8 but from 5 different households? Its a pile of nonsense at this stage, i can see the rationale behind the guidelines but its unenforceable and nobody is taking it seriously anymore

Whether its enforceable or not doesn't matter, we need to take collective responsibility for keeping the virus suppressed.

Utopia Parkway · 15-07-2020 11:02pm

There is undoubtably a big pub culture in Ireland. However there is also a not insignificant anti-pub element who would close all the pubs tomorrow if they could. Virus or no virus.

boombang · 15-07-2020 11:05pm

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

There is undoubtably a big pub culture in Ireland. However there is also a not insignificant anti-pub element who would close all the pubs tomorrow if they could. Virus or no virus.

Going to the pub is someone's private business in peacetime. At present, it's a risk to population health. If publicans can't run them sensibly, then they should deal with closing temporarily. Some have already proven that they can't do a sensible job, so I think the whole sector will needs to share the pain.

Tenzor07 · 15-07-2020 11:06pm

Poorside wrote: »

And who is going to actually police that? Guards come to your door, you don't have to let them in without a warrant.

Ha! That's a joke, the Gardai have no more than 2 cars to cover my local area in Dublin which has a population of about 80,000+
The chances of them showing up to inspect a house party... Zero!

Can't have a holiday, can't go for a pint... Fire up the BBQ and bring trays of cans.. let's party!

Tenzor07 · 15-07-2020 11:10pm

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

There is undoubtably a big pub culture in Ireland. However there is also a not insignificant anti-pub element who would close all the pubs tomorrow if they could. Virus or no virus.

True, the slogan for Ireland is now "Céad míle F**k off..."

We're closing what many tourists come here for our famous welcome and pub culture, and you're not welcome here anyways....You'll be refused service from any tourism related business and treated like a leper...

rodders999 · 15-07-2020 11:12pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The people who make these decisions dont spend time drinking pints in pubs

They hate them

There are two bars in the Dàil to be fair.

ExMachina1000 · 15-07-2020 11:18pm

As the saying goes: You won't smell like roses if you shīte in a bucket.

Correct decision from this government

noodler · 15-07-2020 11:22pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Some Professor said that earlier; 'love to know how you're safer in a pub by buying a €9 sandwich as opposed to one who doesnt? '

They should be all shut or all open.

Restaurants and places serving good reopened.

Not pubs.

Mortelaro · 15-07-2020 11:29pm

boombang wrote: »

I support this. Was out in a restaurant with the in laws on Sunday. Some well meaning acquaintance comes up, buckled, hugs and kisses half of our group, shakes hands with the other. I know it's just because he was pissed, but there's nothing we could do but smile awkwardly. There's no telling drunk people. We'll not be back to pubs or restaurants in a while after that experience.

Drink and COVID don't mix.

Theres a pub in Cornwall thats installed an electric fence to police social distancing, I kid you not

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-53389977

hotmail.com · 15-07-2020 11:32pm

So many of these pubs are not going to reopen at all.

murpho999 · 15-07-2020 11:34pm

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

People in other countries obey rules and wear masks.

Not the Irish though. Rules don't suit the Irish.

That is absolute rubbish.

Most Irish people are complying with requirements.

The vast majority of people complied with travel distance restrictions.

You can't apply something like that to nationalities, it's human nature.

They're always be a considerable minority who don't follow rules due to ignorance and/or stupidity but it's the exact same in other countries.

Risteard81 · 16-07-2020 12:12am

Mortelaro wrote: »

Theres a pub in Cornwall thats installed an electric fence to police social distancing, I kid you not

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-53389977

Presumably they will be prosecuted for that...

growleaves · 16-07-2020 12:12am

Irish people think that (other) Irish people are disobedient and ignore rules. A grain of truth in that but hugely exaggerated. Our citizenry is way more compliant, for good or ill, than generally gets acknowledged.

A corresponding belief is that Europeans/Northern Europeans/Germans/Scandinavians (delete as appropriate) are perfectly compliant.

In fact the authorities in Stockholm closed down a number of restaurants due to lack of enforcing social distancing.

And from France in April:

French police hand out 900,000 lockdown fines including to holiday home owners

The chan chan man · 16-07-2020 12:15am

My €2.5k “staycation” (shudder..) will be some craic so..

rubadub · 16-07-2020 1:14am

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

There is undoubtably a big pub culture in Ireland. However there is also a not insignificant anti-pub element who would close all the pubs tomorrow if they could. Virus or no virus.

That "anti-pub element" may include general people against recreational addictive drugs, or indeed those against all recreational drugs including non addictive ones.

There could also be others (like myself who drinks heavily) who would love to just see the pathetic hypocrites suffer for shits n giggles even though I would suffer myself. Not just pubs closing but any outlet selling recreational drugs that might lead to loss of inhibitions that may lead to greater risk.

The amount of sad idiots who still make out like they do not understand the meal rules is pathetic "durrr, I'm a stoopid ignorant moroooon, what difference does eating make", you're fooling nobody, and I am genuinely feeling pity if you genuinely are that stupid. Unable to realise why laws are already in place in restaurants or for pubs with children. Some seem to think they look smart if they pretend to be idiotic ignorant cunts, I still don't get it.

Strumms · 16-07-2020 1:25am

Risteard81 wrote: »

There won't be a surge because the so-called disease simply isn't here.

The State has no right to shut any business or to tell people how to live their lives.

The disease simply isn’t here, sure, so thousands of medical personnel the world over, including virologists are making **** up.

We are seeing the almost 26,000 people in this country who had had covid, given an incorrect diagnosis. The 1748 people who have died, and their deaths attributed to covid were misdiagnosed too ? Ok.

Would you like to elaborate in as technically detailed a manner as possible to inform us as to the information that leads you to make-believe ... “the disease simply isn’t here”.

Richard Hillman · 16-07-2020 1:26am

Simon Harris and Varadker were on an absolute mission to try and end the drinking culture in Ireland over the last 4 years. They have been constantly lobbied by health Quangos and NGOs to go after alcohol. NPHET is run pretty much entirely by health professionals who no doubtedly have links or are apart of the anti-alcohol lobby. This is their golden ticket.

It is 100% an anti-alcohol thing.

dundalkfc10 · 16-07-2020 1:27am

rubadub wrote: »

That "anti-pub element" may include general people against recreational addictive drugs, or indeed those against all recreational drugs including non addictive ones.

There could also be others (like myself who drinks heavily) who would love to just see the pathetic hypocrites suffer for shits n giggles even though I would suffer myself. Not just pubs closing but any outlet selling recreational drugs that might lead to loss of inhibitions that may lead to greater risk.

The amount of sad idiots who still make out like they do not understand the meal rules is pathetic "durrr, I'm a stoopid ignorant moroooon, what difference does eating make", you're fooling nobody, and I am genuinely feeling pity if you genuinely are that stupid. Unable to realise why laws are already in place in restaurants or for pubs with children. Some seem to think they look smart if they pretend to be idiotic ignorant cunts, I still don't get it.

I understand the meal rules but they are nonsense. If I want go tomorrow sit down for 105 or whatever ridiculous number it is now have a few pints and go home,. I shouldn't have to eat overpiced food too

Strumms · 16-07-2020 1:57am

ablelocks wrote: »

it's a good thing - from what I've seen, social distancing is not happening effectively in shops or restaurants. Not at the beach or on the streets. Not at all in sports training I'm involved in or by supporters at the challenge matches I've been to. There isn't a hope in hell that a pub can operate and not be a focal point for COVID 19.

Think about it - the people who are getting out and about as it is aren't doing what they're supposed to do.

If the pub's reopened on Monday, it would coincide with the restart of most GAA (and other sports) matches. So on the weekend of the 25th, people will go to a match, congregate in the ground, roar and shout and then go to the pub!

If Covid could talk this is what it would ask for - a perfect opportunity to reset and tear into us again.

Look at the evidence from around the world in countries that have eased their lockdowns.

I love going to the pub (or used to) but this is just asking for our hospitals to be overloaded again and all our efforts over the last 5 months will have been in vain.

This btw is a brilliant post, spot on and some...

MadYaker · 16-07-2020 5:16am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Simon Harris and Varadker were on an absolute mission to try and end the drinking culture in Ireland over the last 4 years. They have been constantly lobbied by health Quangos and NGOs to go after alcohol. NPHET is run pretty much entirely by health professionals who no doubtedly have links or are apart of the anti-alcohol lobby. This is their golden ticket.

It is 100% an anti-alcohol thing.

I have to ask if you honestly believe this? “Let’s use the pandemic to close the pubs lads waheeeey”

Do you ever stop and think before posting?

frillyleaf · 16-07-2020 5:19am

The chan chan man wrote: »

My €2.5k “staycation” (shudder..) will be some craic so..

Why are you saying 2,5k ?

almostover · 16-07-2020 6:49am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Simon Harris and Varadker were on an absolute mission to try and end the drinking culture in Ireland over the last 4 years. They have been constantly lobbied by health Quangos and NGOs to go after alcohol. NPHET is run pretty much entirely by health professionals who no doubtedly have links or are apart of the anti-alcohol lobby. This is their golden ticket.

It is 100% an anti-alcohol thing.

Would you be willing to admit that we have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol in this country?

dundalkfc10 · 16-07-2020 7:21am

almostover wrote: »

Would you be willing to admit that we have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol in this country?

Yes, that won't change because the pubs are closed. People who want to drink will drink for cheaper now, meaning they have more money for more alcohol

The White Wolf · 16-07-2020 7:48am

boombang wrote: »

I support this. Was out in a restaurant with the in laws on Sunday. Some well meaning acquaintance comes up, buckled, hugs and kisses half of our group, shakes hands with the other. I know it's just because he was pissed, but there's nothing we could do but smile awkwardly. There's no telling drunk people. We'll not be back to pubs or restaurants in a while after that experience.

Drink and COVID don't mix.

A locked fool in a restaurant isn't indicative of how people will behave in their quiet local.

Hope you enjoyed your meal btw.

Fann Linn · 16-07-2020 8:34am

Dempo1 wrote: »

Trying to get my head around Michael Martins assertion "I hope the TWSS extension will help" I'm assuming a vast majority of pubs currently closed have temporarily laid off staff, equally with zero revenues the prudent decision would have been for staff to go on the PUP so I'd doubt very much any extension of TWSS is of any benifit to publicans or staff affected.

The government seem hell bent on either ending PUP or certainly reducing it but at the same time happy it seems to pay up to 75% of payroll for business's shut and it likely TWSS costing far more. I get the concept but surely are they not the same. I also get expenses, losses etc but they are separate issues.

It's seems statistically TWSS more palatable than PUP

So PUP = €350 PW unless reduced to €203 pw
TWSS = €2800 PM average PM but mostly higher.

Both essentially doing the same thing, maintaining income for those laid off. (Although businesses back trading can continue to claim TWSS to cover most of payroll)

Surely TWSS should be aimed at those who have returned to work and PUP maintained and Aimed at those currently laid off.

Businesses currently back trading as normal and still availing of TWSS is another story

Some businesses never closed, are making profits and are still claiming this payment for their employees.

Dempo1 · 16-07-2020 8:47am

Fann Linn wrote: »

Some businesses never closed, are making profits and are still claiming this payment for their employees.

It is alarming and I see on other threads, employees back working full hours for 75% of wages, also some reports of tax being deducted despite the fact TWSS is not taxes at source.

lertsnim · 16-07-2020 8:50am

Padraig Cribben of the VFI on Newstalk this morning calling for the ban of alcohol sales in supermarkets to stop house parties so pubs can eventually open.

hmmm · 16-07-2020 8:57am

The idea that they are doing this because some people don't like drink and see an opportunity is clearly nonsense, and worse on you if you really think this.

The government are taking their advice from the people in public health who are dealing with mass idiocy like house parties in Killarney where tens of people are getting infected. They can see what way the numbers are looking, and it's not looking good. So we need to get some control back before we can move ahead with further reopenings.

Wear a mask. Stop going to house parties. Physical distancing from other people. That's what will get the pubs opened.

SteM · 16-07-2020 9:04am

Fann Linn wrote: »

Some businesses never closed, are making profits and are still claiming this payment for their employees.

I'm assuming that Revenue will get to these companies at some point and the money will be paid back? Should be pretty easy to to figure out which companies are doing this based on tax return I'd hope.

milehip · 16-07-2020 9:07am

Limpy wrote: »

God gets his revenge for good Friday. Blame Munster rugby for challenging him.

Don't forget gay marriage and abortion!

Fann Linn · 16-07-2020 9:07am

SteM wrote: »

I'm assuming that Revenue will get to these companies at some point and the money will be paid back? Should be pretty easy to to figure out which companies are doing this based on tax return I'd hope.

I would hope so. My daughter works in the 'Health & Safety' sector and she says they've never been busier yet she and other employees are on this payment.

boombang · 16-07-2020 9:10am

The White Wolf wrote: »

A locked fool in a restaurant isn't indicative of how people will behave in their quiet local.

Hope you enjoyed your meal btw.

Show me your foolproof rule for differentiating between drinking establishments in which people will behave sensibly and those in which they won't. Show me the same rule that all pubs will be happy with. We were in a smart enough restaurant. Not the place where you'd expect that behavior.

I like the pub. I just think we need to deal with this deadly virus in a sensible way. If we can't expect everyone to be sensible in the pub, they we're going to have to wait longer.

boombang · 16-07-2020 9:14am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Simon Harris and Varadker were on an absolute mission to try and end the drinking culture in Ireland over the last 4 years. They have been constantly lobbied by health Quangos and NGOs to go after alcohol. NPHET is run pretty much entirely by health professionals who no doubtedly have links or are apart of the anti-alcohol lobby. This is their golden ticket.

It is 100% an anti-alcohol thing.

I'm pretty sure it's an anti-deadly virus thing.

Pauliedragon · 16-07-2020 9:17am

Did we do this backwards maybe? Should we have shut the off licenses and kept the pubs open? If 3/4 of new cases are people under 25 surely a lot of that must be down to house parties. With drink being more expensive in the pub and staff/management to enfore distancing maybe people would've had less exposure to the virus.

Fann Linn · 16-07-2020 9:17am

hmmm wrote: »

The idea that they are doing this because some people don't like drink and see an opportunity is clearly nonsense, and worse on you if you really think this.

The government are taking their advice from the people in public health who are dealing with mass idiocy like house parties in Killarney where tens of people are getting infected. They can see what way the numbers are looking, and it's not looking good. So we need to get some control back before we can move ahead with further reopenings.

Wear a mask. Stop going to house parties. Physical distancing from other people. That's what will get the pubs opened.

So like MM you agree the problem is with the house parties.

Dravokivich · 16-07-2020 9:20am

mossie wrote: »

Few of those countries have the same pub culture we do though.

The issue isn't pub culture. Social hubs of any kind shouldn't have been re-opened for accommodating customers so soon.

Dravokivich · 16-07-2020 9:21am

almostover wrote: »

Would you be willing to admit that we have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol in this country?

The obsession with alcohol is in the critique of it.

BPKS · 16-07-2020 9:22am

hmmm wrote: »

The idea that they are doing this because some people don't like drink and see an opportunity is clearly nonsense, and worse on you if you really think this.

The government are taking their advice from the people in public health who are dealing with mass idiocy like house parties in Killarney where tens of people are getting infected. They can see what way the numbers are looking, and it's not looking good. So we need to get some control back before we can move ahead with further reopenings.

Wear a mask. Stop going to house parties. Physical distancing from other people. That's what will get the pubs opened.

This is the nub of it.

Why not just shut down areas of the country that have high cases. Like Dublin. Don't let people in or out for a month.

The house party you refer to was a bunch that travelled from Dublin to Killarney when one of them was awaiting the results of his Covid test. (That a-hole should be locked up by the way - what he did was way worse that those people 'coughing' on Guards back a few months ago).

Kerry was Covid free for 30 days in a row around May/early June.

Is there a case for allowing everything to open in unaffected areas and restrict travel to/from areas where there are significant numbers?

But then again that wouldn't suit the people in NPHET cos most of them probably live and work in the area with the significant numbers.

GazzaL · 16-07-2020 9:23am

hmmm wrote: »

The idea that they are doing this because some people don't like drink and see an opportunity is clearly nonsense, and worse on you if you really think this.

The government are taking their advice from the people in public health who are dealing with mass idiocy like house parties in Killarney where tens of people are getting infected. They can see what way the numbers are looking, and it's not looking good. So we need to get some control back before we can move ahead with further reopenings.

Wear a mask. Stop going to house parties. Physical distancing from other people. That's what will get the pubs opened.

You can't drink a pint if you're wearing a mask.

There was no problem if you didn't wear a mask in shops at the peak of the pandemic.

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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