2020 GUI Cups & Shields

SEORG · 13-05-2020 1:17pm #1

PLAN FOR ALL-IRELAND INTER-CLUB COMPETITTIONS

The Golfing Union of Ireland is asking clubs to consider a plan to complete four All-Ireland Inter-Club competitions, the All-Ireland Medal and one All-Ireland Under-18 Inter-Club event later this year.

The Union has been considering options for inter-club golf in 2020 over the past month, through consultation in its internal Committee structure, and externally with host clubs and sponsors. The plan’s circulation today also comes after further consideration of the Republic of Ireland’s Roadmap for Reopening Society and Business and Northern Ireland’s Plan for a Phased, Strategic Approach to Recovery.

However, the Union is clear that these competitions will only go ahead following consideration of feedback from the clubs themselves, and subject to public health advice.

Following circulation of the Plan today, an entry questionnaire will be issued to all golf clubs early next week inviting feedback on participation. It will be requested that this is completed by Sunday 7th June, after which the Union will finalise its plans regarding Inter-Club golf for 2020.

The plan focuses on playing the AIG Senior Cup, AIG Junior Cup, AIG Jimmy Bruen Shield and AIG Pierce Purcell Shield, in addition to the Irish Under-18 Boys Inter-Club and All-Ireland Gold Medals, mainly through August, September and October.

It proposes the use of adjusted rules, formats, schedules and protocols to prioritise the safety of all involved and make participation easier from logistical and cost perspectives for clubs.

In order to mitigate against sharing of equipment (including golf balls), the plan envisages the Jimmy Bruen and Pierce Purcell competitions being conducted as four-balls for 2020.

The format would be match play with early rounds (ie, prior to the provincial quarter-finals at least) played on a localised basis where practicable with three matches in the club drawn at home and two matches at the club drawn away.

Normal conventions around practicing, team dining and other issues surrounding the playing of matches would be dispensed with or modified as necessary to incorporate social distancing guidelines and make clubs’ participation more affordable and logistically less onerous.

The remaining All-Ireland inter-club competitions (the AIG Barton Shield, Irish Mixed Foursomes, All-Ireland Four-Ball and Fred Perry Trophy) will not proceed in any event, and all entered clubs will have their entry fees refunded following the period for feedback from the questionnaire period.

To facilitate this plan, the All-Ireland Finals have been provisionally rescheduled for 15-18 October in Donegal Golf Club. We are extremely grateful to Donegal for their continued support as the host venue for the 2020 finals. The plan also outlines the broad timeline that would need to be met in order to make it possible to stage the All-Ireland Finals, and the contingencies available should it not be possible to meet these. For the benefit of clubs wishing to participate, the Union will strive to make decisions at the earliest possible moment on these matters and as such is continually monitoring and consulting public health advice.

The ILGU has produced a similar plan and is separately communicating with clubs seeking feedback on Women’s Inter-Club competitions. Further details of this are available on www.golfnet.ie.

Golfhead65 · 13-05-2020 2:48pm

SEORG wrote: »

PLAN FOR ALL-IRELAND INTER-CLUB COMPETITTIONS

The Golfing Union of Ireland is asking clubs to consider a plan to complete four All-Ireland Inter-Club competitions, the All-Ireland Medal and one All-Ireland Under-18 Inter-Club event later this year.

The Union has been considering options for inter-club golf in 2020 over the past month, through consultation in its internal Committee structure, and externally with host clubs and sponsors. The plan’s circulation today also comes after further consideration of the Republic of Ireland’s Roadmap for Reopening Society and Business and Northern Ireland’s Plan for a Phased, Strategic Approach to Recovery.

However, the Union is clear that these competitions will only go ahead following consideration of feedback from the clubs themselves, and subject to public health advice.

Following circulation of the Plan today, an entry questionnaire will be issued to all golf clubs early next week inviting feedback on participation. It will be requested that this is completed by Sunday 7th June, after which the Union will finalise its plans regarding Inter-Club golf for 2020.

The plan focuses on playing the AIG Senior Cup, AIG Junior Cup, AIG Jimmy Bruen Shield and AIG Pierce Purcell Shield, in addition to the Irish Under-18 Boys Inter-Club and All-Ireland Gold Medals, mainly through August, September and October.

It proposes the use of adjusted rules, formats, schedules and protocols to prioritise the safety of all involved and make participation easier from logistical and cost perspectives for clubs.

In order to mitigate against sharing of equipment (including golf balls), the plan envisages the Jimmy Bruen and Pierce Purcell competitions being conducted as four-balls for 2020.

The format would be match play with early rounds (ie, prior to the provincial quarter-finals at least) played on a localised basis where practicable with three matches in the club drawn at home and two matches at the club drawn away.

Normal conventions around practicing, team dining and other issues surrounding the playing of matches would be dispensed with or modified as necessary to incorporate social distancing guidelines and make clubs’ participation more affordable and logistically less onerous.

The remaining All-Ireland inter-club competitions (the AIG Barton Shield, Irish Mixed Foursomes, All-Ireland Four-Ball and Fred Perry Trophy) will not proceed in any event, and all entered clubs will have their entry fees refunded following the period for feedback from the questionnaire period.

To facilitate this plan, the All-Ireland Finals have been provisionally rescheduled for 15-18 October in Donegal Golf Club. We are extremely grateful to Donegal for their continued support as the host venue for the 2020 finals. The plan also outlines the broad timeline that would need to be met in order to make it possible to stage the All-Ireland Finals, and the contingencies available should it not be possible to meet these. For the benefit of clubs wishing to participate, the Union will strive to make decisions at the earliest possible moment on these matters and as such is continually monitoring and consulting public health advice.

The ILGU has produced a similar plan and is separately communicating with clubs seeking feedback on Women’s Inter-Club competitions. Further details of this are available on www.golfnet.ie.

Ah yes, hopefully something to really look forward to

rickis tache · 13-05-2020 3:16pm

Pierce Purcell is going to Fourball...... Yeehaww mount up

fred funk }{ · 13-05-2020 7:40pm

Some interclub would be really something nice to look forward to

kennethrhcp · 13-05-2020 8:23pm

I'm not sure it's a good idea to go ahead with these this year... but if it does go ahead I'll try make the team

Just thinking on the Bruen & Purcell maybe going fourball rather than scotch, an idea to keep it scotch; use alternate balls on each hole with the person teeing off being the one to place the ball on the tee & retrieve the ball once the hole is complete. Then the otherplayer tee's up a ball from his bag on the next hole & so on... only ever touching your own equipment/ball. I love the scotch format

Golfhead65 · 13-05-2020 9:01pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

I'm not sure it's a good idea to go ahead with these this year... but if it does go ahead I'll try make the team

Just thinking on the Bruen & Purcell maybe going fourball rather than scotch, an idea to keep it scotch; use alternate balls on each hole with the person teeing off being the one to place the ball on the tee & retrieve the ball once the hole is complete. Then the otherplayer tee's up a ball from his bag on the next hole & so on... only ever touching your own equipment/ball. I love the scotch format

But they've all but decided it's going to be Four-ball if it goes ahead which is a good move if you ask me

kennethrhcp · 13-05-2020 10:48pm

Golfhead65 wrote: »

But they've all but decided it's going to be Four-ball if it goes ahead which is a good move if you ask me

damn have they... I was really hoping they'd read my comment on boards & take it on board

I was just thinking out load & like the scotch format as it's more testing of a pair (imo)

willabur · 13-05-2020 10:51pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

I'm not sure it's a good idea to go ahead with these this year... but if it does go ahead I'll try make the team

Just thinking on the Bruen & Purcell maybe going fourball rather than scotch, an idea to keep it scotch; use alternate balls on each hole with the person teeing off being the one to place the ball on the tee & retrieve the ball once the hole is complete. Then the otherplayer tee's up a ball from his bag on the next hole & so on... only ever touching your own equipment/ball. I love the scotch format

Managing the ball on the green, marking etc would be problematic

Golfgorfield · 14-05-2020 12:21am

Strange that they have scrapped the Barton Shield which was 4somes with 4 player teams. This would have been ideal as a 4ball competition for the very low players.

opinionated3 · 14-05-2020 11:35am

Going to hard for a lot of players who live outside the 5km radius to get their game back up to scratch in time for the inter club.

rickis tache · 14-05-2020 11:49am

Would be surprised if these started before july. Lots to be finalised.

opinionated3 · 14-05-2020 11:56am

rickis tache wrote: »

Would be surprised if these started before july. Lots to be finalised.

I think they're aiming for last weekend in July but I'm open to correction on that

Rikand · 14-05-2020 11:59am

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Strange that they have scrapped the Barton Shield which was 4somes with 4 player teams. This would have been ideal as a 4ball competition for the very low players.

A lot of clubs would have the same panel for Barton and senior cup and given they want to do matchplay from the start, it would be a lot of matches to play for players.

Is what I'm thinking

paulos53 · 14-05-2020 3:02pm

opinionated3 wrote: »

Going to hard for a lot of players who live outside the 5km radius to get their game back up to scratch in time for the inter club.

It will be a lot easier than those that live outside the 20km radius

Golfhead65 · 14-05-2020 4:01pm

paulos53 wrote: »

It will be a lot easier than those that live outside the 20km radius

I'd say that scuppers the chances of the primarily distance membership clubs

mighty magpie · 14-05-2020 10:15pm

New captain for our Jimmy bruen this year. Me and my partner dropped even though we had the best score last year at qualifying which we didnt get through. No sign up sheet, no trials.

Had a look at the 10 handicaps and there's no way he can make have 5 pairs with minimum 15 so be interesting to see how it plans out.

Golfhead65 · 14-05-2020 10:50pm

mighty magpie wrote: »

New captain for our Jimmy bruen this year. Me and my partner dropped even though we had the best score last year at qualifying which we didnt get through. No sign up sheet, no trials.

Had a look at the 10 handicaps and there's no way he can make have 5 pairs with minimum 15 so be interesting to see how it plans out.

No clubs open yet but 5&10..6&9..8&7...15 is minimum combined not set in stone and the best pairings may have a Combined handicap higher than 15

slingerz · 15-05-2020 10:51am

If the purcell & bruen move to 4balls, is that not just really the junior cup with some 10 handicappers playing alongside?!

primarily, a 5 handicapper should be the dominant player in such a pairing and possibly moreso in purcell.

Golfhead65 · 15-05-2020 11:11am

slingerz wrote: »

If the purcell & bruen move to 4balls, is that not just really the junior cup with some 10 handicappers playing alongside?!

primarily, a 5 handicapper should be the dominant player in such a pairing and possibly moreso in purcell.

PP lowest is 11 but I see your logic

GreeBo · 15-05-2020 11:45am

slingerz wrote: »

If the purcell & bruen move to 4balls, is that not just really the junior cup with some 10 handicappers playing alongside?!

primarily, a 5 handicapper should be the dominant player in such a pairing and possibly moreso in purcell.

it would certainly change how you do pairings if you had a limited panel.

e.g. stick the worst with the best as the best will probably count on all the holes anyway.

Or even maybe go for matched handicaps

gypsy79 · 15-05-2020 12:55pm

I am helping manage the PP and with the move fourball am very excited to unleash the 6 foot 6 Danish viking 13 handicapper with his 280-300 drives in the fourball format rather than foursomes

billy3sheets · 15-05-2020 7:36pm

Instead of moving from foursomes to fourballs, couldn't they just leave it but allow each player to use their own ball on the green?
Changing the format kinda defeats the purpose of the competition.

slingerz · 16-05-2020 5:22pm

I think instead of 4Ball they should be singles match play. The pace of play for a 4Ball would be chronic and would never get completed over a weekend

SEORG · 16-05-2020 5:26pm

They won’t be over a weekend, they are going to be played matchplay home/away. 3 matches at the home team course & two at the away teams course, played at the same time.

Golfhead65 · 16-05-2020 6:31pm

slingerz wrote: »

If the purcell & bruen move to 4balls, is that not just really the junior cup with some 10 handicappers playing alongside?!

primarily, a 5 handicapper should be the dominant player in such a pairing and possibly moreso in purcell.

Just talking today about this and although nothing confirmed yet, they are sopposedly looking at a minimum combined and maximum combined in each of these comps and each player will receive shots as per handicap and index..That would seem to be a fairer way to do it..I hope so as I'm managing our PP team this year and I had done all the prep for 4somes, now it's a totally different senario with 4 balls..Back to the drawing board

slingerz · 18-05-2020 9:38am

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Just talking today about this and although nothing confirmed yet, they are sopposedly looking at a minimum combined and maximum combined in each of these comps and each player will receive shots as per handicap and index..That would seem to be a fairer way to do it..I hope so as I'm managing our PP team this year and I had done all the prep for 4somes, now it's a totally different senario with 4 balls..Back to the drawing board

How would maximum combined work?

They’d be better off just knocking them on the head for this year I feel

Golfhead65 · 18-05-2020 10:06am

slingerz wrote: »

How would maximum combined work?

They’d be better off just knocking them on the head for this year I feel

I don't know tbh but if I take the PP as an example and atm the minimum combined h/c is 25 with lowest allowed 11h/c..They might introduce a maximum combined of 29 with highest allowable 18 h/c and in this way if shots are involved no player would have more than 1 shot on a hole, Just my angle on it in way of fairness and like The JB, it will stop it just being a match primarily between the lower handicappers, these are my thoughts on it and don't have any insider knowledge of what's going to happen as clubs have to come back with their ideas.

mighty magpie · 18-05-2020 10:14am

slingerz wrote: »

If the purcell & bruen move to 4balls, is that not just really the junior cup with some 10 handicappers playing alongside?!

primarily, a 5 handicapper should be the dominant player in such a pairing and possibly moreso in purcell.

Fully agree with this. Teams should be loaded with 5/10 and 6/9 pairings.

GreeBo · 18-05-2020 10:19am

If they want to keep it as fourballs then it should be combined scores for each pairing, otherwise, as above, its just junior cup singles.

gypsy79 · 18-05-2020 10:49am

GreeBo wrote: »

If they want to keep it as fourballs then it should be combined scores for each pairing, otherwise, as above, its just junior cup singles.

Not at all, you want to get the most volatility together within reason. Par on each hole will be the target which is tough for 11 handicappers

RGS · 18-05-2020 11:24am

Personally I would knock the interclubs on the head for 2020.
I would not be in favour of tweaking the foursomes to fourballs
If any competitions were to proceed I would look at the individual ones, senior cup, junior cup, the metro in Dublin and its provincial counterpart.

GreeBo · 18-05-2020 1:11pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Not at all, you want to get the most volatility together within reason. Par on each hole will be the target which is tough for 11 handicappers

I don't follow what you are saying...what volatility are you trying to get together?

Why wouldnt combined scores be just as difficult for the 11 handicapper to get a Par in?!

My point (and others) is that if its just straight fourball then its going to come down to the two low guys playing a singles match, rendering the high guys pointless.
Better to use combined scoring so teams are forced into trying to balance their pairs, just like in foursomes imo.

Golfhead65 · 18-05-2020 2:38pm

GreeBo wrote: »

If they want to keep it as fourballs then it should be combined scores for each pairing, otherwise, as above, its just junior cup singles.

Jeez for once I totally agree with you, that would seem the fairest way and involved all 4 players

prawnsambo · 19-05-2020 12:32pm

GUI have opened an online questionnaire for clubs on inter-club competitions.

onthefairway · 30-05-2020 10:13pm

I understand the GUI intend is to run a limited number of events between August to October. Senior and Junior Cups are retained as singles events but both JBS and PP will be fourball played off scratch.
Based on the ILGU survey voting 3 to 1 against inter-club events this year there has to be serious questions asked if these same clubs will supports Men's inter-club events.

We can only wait but I am expecting all events to be cancelled for 2020.

Golfhead65 · 30-05-2020 10:40pm

onthefairway wrote: »

I understand the GUI intend is to run a limited number of events between August to October. Senior and Junior Cups are retained as singles events but both JBS and PP will be fourball played off scratch.
Based on the ILGU survey voting 3 to 1 against inter-club events this year there has to be serious questions asked if these same clubs will supports Men's inter-club events.

We can only wait but I am expecting all events to be cancelled for 2020.

Thankfully women won't have a say in it as GUI & ILGUI not as one yet, Our club have already submitted the comps they intend staying in

HighLine · 31-05-2020 11:47am

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Thankfully women won't have a say in it as GUI & ILGUI not as one yet, Our club have already submitted the comps they intend staying in

Yes there was a big difference in voting between the mens and ladies section at my club. The ladies unanimously against inter-club comps where as the majority of men's committee were in favour.

Kingswood Rover · 31-05-2020 8:37pm

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Thankfully women won't have a say in it as GUI & ILGUI not as one yet, Our club have already submitted the comps they intend staying in

Good Man there Golf head nice bit of sexism but you do know that women now have the vote and can drive cars

gypsy79 · 31-05-2020 9:15pm

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Good Man there Golf head nice bit of sexism but you do know that women now have the vote and can drive cars

****ing yawn

Kingswood Rover · 31-05-2020 9:47pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

****ing yawn

Hello gorgeous.

plumber77 · 01-06-2020 12:13am

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Good Man there Golf head nice bit of sexism but you do know that women now have the vote and can drive cars

I'm sure he meant thankfully their vote won't count for the interclubs as he wants it to go ahead. I wouldn't be joining the dots that quickly

mighty magpie · 10-06-2020 10:06am

Are we any further along with these competitions? Have survey results been shared and do we know any competition dates?

I've got internal jimmy bruen qualifying in the club next week. Seems a bit early.

opinionated3 · 10-06-2020 10:10am

mighty magpie wrote: »

Are we any further along with these competitions? Have survey results been shared and do we know any competition dates?

I've got internal jimmy bruen qualifying in the club next week. Seems a bit early.

Can I ask how are you conducting internal qualifying? No practice rounds or trials are allowed at our club because the timesheet is just too jammed (an effort to give every member an opportunity to play each week). Personally I'm playing twice a week and trying to get my game up to scratch but it's tough when your not with your normal partner playing matches against lads that are also trying out for the team.

GreeBo · 10-06-2020 10:45am

I think the push back of competitive golf will kill off any inter or intra club matches for 2020.

Same result for our club, the ladies dont seem interested, the mens club are happy to go ahead.

mighty magpie · 10-06-2020 10:58am

opinionated3 wrote: »

Can I ask how are you conducting internal qualifying? No practice rounds or trials are allowed at our club because the timesheet is just too jammed (an effort to give every member an opportunity to play each week). Personally I'm playing twice a week and trying to get my game up to scratch but it's tough when your not with your normal partner playing matches against lads that are also trying out for the team.

We're doing a betterball V-Par format against the course. Everyone off scratch.
Ongoing 9 hole qualifying over 2 weeks and best score in week 1 is straight in.

Ollieboy · 10-06-2020 11:21am

GreeBo wrote: »

I think the push back of competitive golf will kill off any inter or intra club matches for 2020.

Same result for our club, the ladies dont seem interested, the mens club are happy to go ahead.

I agree, it’s now impossible to do inter-club golf in the short timeframe and to ask clubs to give up tee times for so few people involved.

DuckSlice · 10-06-2020 11:35am

Ollieboy wrote: »

I agree, it’s now impossible to do inter-club golf in the short timeframe and to ask clubs to give up tee times for so few people involved.

Are most matches not mid-week, so when the initial rush of golf calms down would this be a problem? Or maybe its just the ones my club enters that are mostly mid-week?

moycullen14 · 10-06-2020 12:22pm

Anyone else less than enthusiastic about the cups and shields?

Personally, I've no interest in them but I've no problem with them as long as they don't interfere too much with my golf - or cost me money.

If you club is hosting the local/regional rounds then won't their be an influx of players for practice, etc and the inevitable closure for the competition itself?

In these times, isn't it a bit much restricting people's playing opportunities? Never mind the expense involved.

Always felt their was a sense of entitlement with team players - it's really for the benefit of the players involved, not the club. It's not like the main purpose of a golf club is team events.

I'll put on my tin hat now :-)

mighty magpie · 10-06-2020 1:06pm

I don't feel any additional entitlement, I just put my name forward to experience some additional competitive golf as part of a team which is a world of difference from playing stableford for terrible prizes.

Qualifying may close the course for a few hours on a sunday but the other interclub matches (usually midweek) through the season have never stopped me getting a game of golf in.

How would interclub games cost you money?

Golf is my Game · 10-06-2020 1:16pm

Teams are usually funded by the club. Entry fees negligible, but food and drink usually considerable. Which is effectively the non team players subsidising team golf for those who play on the teams. Maybe theres clubs where the team members pay to play on the teams or for their own grub, or tea and sandwiches, meals etc for the visiting teams, but anyones Ive been in, you didnt. One club I was in was a serious enough part of the mens club income every year. I think around ten grand. With maybe no more than 20 percent of the guys actually playing on a team.
Still think theyre a good thing though. Good fun usually.

RGS · 10-06-2020 1:23pm

moycullen14 wrote: »

Anyone else less than enthusiastic about the cups and shields?

Personally, I've no interest in them but I've no problem with them as long as they don't interfere too much with my golf - or cost me money.

If you club is hosting the local/regional rounds then won't their be an influx of players for practice, etc and the inevitable closure for the competition itself?

In these times, isn't it a bit much restricting people's playing opportunities? Never mind the expense involved.

Always felt their was a sense of entitlement with team players - it's really for the benefit of the players involved, not the club. It's not like the main purpose of a golf club is team events.

I'll put on my tin hat now :-)

My understanding it that the regional qualifiers are scrapped for this year and the inter clubs are reverting to a home and away system as used in a number of other inter club competitions.
Personally I would scrapped the inter clubs this year even though I love playing in them.

2020 GUI Cups & Shields

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