2020 GUI Cups & Shields

tbayers

Remind me wrote: »

There is a thread about cheating in here somewhere....

Never mentioned then word cheating. Commended them on their exceptional golf which wouldn't have been out of place at senior Cup level, especially from guys playing off 7. Only 100 or so in club, some talent!

Remind me

tbayers wrote: »

Never mentioned then word cheating. Commended them on their exceptional golf which wouldn't have been out of place at senior Cup level, especially from guys playing off 7. Only 100 or so in club, some talent!

Why are they off 7? Or how are they still off 7?

Also certainly not accusing you of saying cheating, I'll say it myself!!

tbayers

Remind me wrote: »

Why are they off 7? Or how are they still off 7?

Also certainly not accusing you of saying cheating, I'll say it myself!!

That's a good question. They told us only 1 person in club under 5 and made munster semi finals of junior Cup with high men on Bruen playing and starting in it. Hard to compete with that, even big clubs like Tramore and Shannon and whoever they hammered on the way.

golfguy1

tbayers wrote: »

That's a good question. They told us only 1 person in club under 5 and made munster semi finals of junior Cup with high men on Bruen playing and starting in it. Hard to compete with that, even big clubs like Tramore and Shannon and whoever they hammered on the way.

They didn't hammer Shannon or killarney(last hole in final match)
It is getting to the stage where whoever wins is branded cheats
Pretty sure if killarney had beaten them and gone on to win their would be less questioning of their handicaps

golfguy1

Remind me wrote: »

Why are they off 7? Or how are they still off 7?

Also certainly not accusing you of saying cheating, I'll say it myself!!

Why do you think they were cheating?
Do you also believe Shannon were cheating as they ran them close in the final

gypsy79

tbayers wrote: »

Never mentioned then word cheating. Commended them on their exceptional golf which wouldn't have been out of place at senior Cup level, especially from guys playing off 7. Only 100 or so in club, some talent!

You didn’t need to say it. You are essentially telling us a guy off 10 had 49 points off back sticks in the pressure of team competition

People are right to query

golfguy1

gypsy79 wrote: »

You didn’t need to say it. You are essentially telling us a guy off 10 had 49 points off back sticks in the pressure of team competition

People are right to query

Mahonys point is a very scoreable course.3 shortish/reachable par 5s. 2 near drivable par 4s
It wasn't off the back stakes.
Open days generally won with mid to high 40s
So no surprise to see 7 handicap going round under par (if in fact he did)
I know killarney had a 3 handicap playing and 2 lads both off 5 in a pairing so would assume other clubs would have similar.
Hope bearhaven win an all Ireland. Nice club & nice lads

Remind me

golfguy1 wrote: »

Why do you think they were cheating?
Do you also believe Shannon were cheating as they ran them close in the final

Because you see it year after year. Even in four-ball a team in Bruen should not be multiples under par.

No doubt about it you see teams build, my own club went a good distance in Bruen last year but majority of lads too low this year but there was also lads in it again this year that shouldn't have been.

tbayers

They did hammer Shannon cause they didn't get close to them in the 3 matches they won. All you need is 3 exceptionally strong pairs which in fairness they had. To be 10 up on your handicap with three holes left to play is exceptional golf, for it to happen a few times around the course is beyond exceptional.

As I said earlier I hope they win and can't see see them being beat (although donegal at home potentially, on a links will be fascinating). All great guys from what was said by all. But people are allowed ask questions.

Hoboo

golfguy1 wrote: »

They didn't hammer Shannon or killarney(last hole in final match)
It is getting to the stage where whoever wins is branded cheats
Pretty sure if killarney had beaten them and gone on to win their would be less questioning of their handicaps

From my experience playing and managing towns cup, barton and PP, when you get to 1/4 final or semi final stage, it goes from a match to a walkover. PP is the only comp Ive been involved in where I thought it was pretty even, with just a few lads playing to single figure level who may have come down quickly......but more often than not hadn't budged in 12 months.

It's either rife, or in my opinion there is a vast difference in course difficulty. Hopefully the new system will balance things out.

gypsy79

Still waiting to see what next years qualifying rules will be

Could be significant

L.O.F.T

tbayers wrote: »

It's a rarity and not the norm. I played as high handicaper last 3 years and enjoying this format much better. Less pressure. Came up against one pair that had two low handicappers. The older heads have been harder to beat, more experienced, wiser etc.

I think a unique part missing this year and key to JB or Barton is foursomes. Foursomes format alone increase pressure on each playing partners ability to play under pressure knowing your partner will be playing from where you hit your last shot or putt. The revised format of fourball is understandable during these times but foursomes matchplay is where you discover a partnerships true match play ability, in my opinion. Its great to play competitive golf and represent your golf but its not the same replication of pressure you would of had in previous years.

Pdoghue

Any idea if the finals are still going ahead in Donegal this weekend? It would seem madness to be going ahead with these at this stage, with teams having to travel long distances and stay in shared accommodation, etc.

opinionated3

Pdoghue wrote: »

Any idea if the finals are still going ahead in Donegal this weekend? It would seem madness to be going ahead with these at this stage, with teams having to travel long distances and stay in shared accommodation, etc.

Speaking to a friend of mine from one of the competing clubs it is going ahead....

martinkop

That's bonkers, golfgate level stuff. Will give a very bad message for a governing body to go ahead with that.

SEORG

martinkop wrote: »

That's bonkers, golfgate level stuff. Will give a very bad message for a governing body to go ahead with that.

Not quite golfgate level stuff. The Irish finals fall under Inter-County competition & the matches are taking place behind closed doors, all within the current level 3 and public health guidelines.

There is restricted attendance for the participating teams. Starters, named subs, nominated Covid officer, club captain, team manager & assistant manager are the only ones from each club allowed inside the gates of Murvagh.

Pdoghue

Yea I still think, as someone says above, that it's bonkers. It's not like it has been up to now when you play a match home/away that you just rock up to the car park of the (relatively nearby) club where you're playing, put on your golf shoes and head out to the 1st tee. Now, the team and mentors have to drive up there, stay somewhere at least one night and travel back..

Ronney

JC & PP Leinster finals due to be played in birr this weekend cancelled till tbc

Remind me

Donegal is off this weekend and rightly so

Snotty

Started this morning in Donegal, looks like only Jimmy Bruen teams out so far, it can be followed here

https://www.golfireland.ie/inter-club#/schedule

tbayers

Snotty wrote: »

Started this morning in Donegal, looks like only Jimmy Bruen teams out so far, it can be followed here

https://www.golfireland.ie/inter-club#/schedule

Berehaven won the Bruen. No surprise there at all, as was predicted last year

opinionated3

..... And Spanish point cruising to another PP shield, as will shock absolutely no one😡

DuckSlice

Are these being played to last years handicaps?

opinionated3

DuckSlice wrote: »

Are these being played to last years handicaps?

It's the same panels as last year, so I assume so. Bigger question is do the same players qualify to play the same competitions this year again?

Ronney

DuckSlice wrote: »

Are these being played to last years handicaps?

These are the 2020 Finals so being played off the lowest H/C from 2019

This years comp are off new WHI at 1/1/21

opinionated3

Ronney wrote: »

These are the 2020 Finals so being played off the lowest H/C from 2019

This years comp are off new WHI at 1/1/21

But are the winning players today not cut in their handicap? Which means their handicap index should be back dated to January? Otherwise the same panel could potentially be out again in a few weeks time in the first round?

Poker Face

opinionated3 wrote: »

But are the winning players today not cut in their handicap? Which means their handicap index should be back dated to January? Otherwise the same panel could potentially be out again in a few weeks time in the first round?

Not sure if they are cut. Going to keep an eye on it and see if they will be. Everyone should be cut 3 shots minimum!!

Rikand

Spanish point are unreal. Is that 4 pierce purcell crowns now in the last 7 or 8 years. And not just winning, two of their matches won by 7 holes. Sensational

1 of 7

I read on Twitter two 15 handicappers won 7 & 6 for Spanish Point.

opinionated3

Rikand wrote: »

Spanish point are unreal. Is that 4 pierce purcell crowns now in the last 7 or 8 years. And not just winning, two of their matches won by 7 holes. Sensational

You say "sensational". Others would have a different word for it.

Rikand

opinionated3 wrote: »

You say "sensational". Others would have a different word for it.

Well that's very opinionated of you

slingerz

opinionated3 wrote: »

You say "sensational". Others would have a different word for it.

It beggars belief that such small clubs can be so successful on a national scale each year

Sir montygom

Rikand wrote: »

Spanish point are unreal. Is that 4 pierce purcell crowns now in the last 7 or 8 years. And not just winning, two of their matches won by 7 holes. Sensational

They were very unlucky not to win 7 out of the last 8 .....Golf can be a cruel game ....I would think some players on that team could have 3 medals..... The club captains must be very proud of their achievements !

evillive

slingerz wrote: »

It beggars belief that such small clubs can be so successful on a national scale each year

As a member of a perceived smaller club who has has success in one or two of the interclubs
in recent times, we find that a lot of the more reputable, household name clubs
we get to play often don't bother to practice our 'mickey mouse' course and especially
when they have the home draw bank on winning all their games at home. We send strong
Singles/pairs away who have done their homework/practice, then if we go ahead in the
matches and they have no plan B!!.
Add in then the value of local knowledge, making use of players on the way down the handicap where you use last year's lowest and some underdog motivation and team mentality commitment and it's not surprising the smaller clubs can 'punch above their weight'!! Long may the underestimation continue!!

Of course whenever we get a good panel in a competition and start fancying ourselves, we have fallen foul of our own over confidence

opinionated3

evillive wrote: »

As a member of a perceived smaller club who has has success in one or two of the interclubs
in recent times, we find that a lot of the more reputable, household name clubs
we get to play often don't bother to practice our 'mickey mouse' course and especially
when they have the home draw bank on winning all their games at home. We send strong
Singles/pairs away who have done their homework/practice, then if we go ahead in the
matches and they have no plan B!!.
Add in then the value of local knowledge, making use of players on the way down the handicap where you use last year's lowest and some underdog motivation and team mentality commitment and it's not surprising the smaller clubs can 'punch above their weight'!! Long may the underestimation continue!!

Of course whenever we get a good panel in a competition and start fancying ourselves, we have fallen foul of our own over confidence

With all due respect, I don't think there was any underestimation of the winning team this year ........
The comments on Twitter will tell you all you need to know.

slingerz

evillive wrote: »

As a member of a perceived smaller club who has has success in one or two of the interclubs
in recent times, we find that a lot of the more reputable, household name clubs
we get to play often don't bother to practice our 'mickey mouse' course and especially
when they have the home draw bank on winning all their games at home. We send strong
Singles/pairs away who have done their homework/practice, then if we go ahead in the
matches and they have no plan B!!.
Add in then the value of local knowledge, making use of players on the way down the handicap where you use last year's lowest and some underdog motivation and team mentality commitment and it's not surprising the smaller clubs can 'punch above their weight'!! Long may the underestimation continue!!

Of course whenever we get a good panel in a competition and start fancying ourselves, we have fallen foul of our own over confidence

While that is all well and good it stands to reason that a smaller club will struggle to produce a team to perform year on year in national competitions when the qualifying standard for those competitions are set at a specific level. If they are young players they should be coming down, similarly old mid handicaps should either drop slightly or else decline out of competitiveness.

Any amount of preparation or tactical approach cannot counterbalance these

callaway92

Yeh, for something like Purcell it makes complete sense that success should only be in spurts/maybe two-years max.

Anything more is beyond luck/skill. It’s not right.

LuckyGent88

Iv been giving out and complaining for years about Spanish point. I actually know some of them and have played many matches against them.

At least 5 of the starting 10 players in the final could and should be off single figures. That team would be and very often is there Jimmy bruen team too and they are difficult to beat.

The players are all nice fellas but for whatever reason just like looking after their handicaps collectively for winning these inter club comps and also classics.

The scary thing about their team is that they are missing 4 players who previously played with them. They could have been even stronger. Sure the furthest the Hehir’s went was the 16th. They are the chief architects of all of it.

opinionated3

As a fellow golfer said to me at the weekend "don't worry about it, there isn't a golfer out there that will give them any credit". .....

Rikand

Players used to get cut a number of shots when they were part of a team that won an interclub. Does that still happen ?

opinionated3

Rikand wrote: »

Players used to get cut a number of shots when they were part of a team that won an interclub. Does that still happen ?

I'm wondering that myself, especially this year. The interclub comps start pretty soon. Surely the winning clubs can't put out the exact same panels again this year?

evillive

opinionated3 wrote: »

With all due respect, I don't think there was any underestimation of the winning team this year ........
The comments on Twitter will tell you all you need to know.[/Q

I was just responding to the comment about small non big prestigious clubs doing well in general and my own experience, not referring to the club you are talking about,
more perhaps the situation of the 4 teams that made the JB final none a previous winner so a new name on that roll of honour

opinionated3

evillive wrote: »

opinionated3 wrote: »

With all due respect, I don't think there was any underestimation of the winning team this year ........
The comments on Twitter will tell you all you need to know.[/Q

I was just responding to the comment about small non big prestigious clubs doing well in general and my own experience, not referring to the club you are talking about,
more perhaps the situation of the 4 teams that made the JB final none a previous winner so a new name on that roll of honour

My apologies..... Misinterpreted your post. I think Luckygent is familiar with what we are getting at here. I've no issue with size or quality of clubs that win. Everyone who plays golf in Clare knows the story. And it's pretty pathetic tbh.....

Poker Face

Rikand wrote: »

Players used to get cut a number of shots when they were part of a team that won an interclub. Does that still happen ?

Not happened yet anyway, looked up a couple of people who won Pierce Purcell

NedBagg

Poker Face wrote: »

Not happened yet anyway, looked up a couple of people who won Pierce Purcell

Pretty sure they don't get cut for winning ... I would guess that most of their players will be playing PP again this year.. Im managing a PP team this year and you wonder what is the point.. to win an All ire final by that score is not right But then as lads have said SP are known for it... In my pairings if they break 80 in a round then I see that as exceptional score and none have done it yet..but I keep telling them that is where they have to get to.. I think 80 and below may be the norm for some clubs... What these guys are doing is cheating pure and simple... what say the GUI??

willabur

It sounds extremely dubious

Sounds like they have a team of potentially single figure handicappers who barely play rounds for handicapping purposes. To be that consistent is suspect given the nature of golfers is to be inconsistent - everyone can see their golf handicap history, I bet you most peoples looks like a Sin/Cos wave

prawnsambo

willabur wrote: »

It sounds extremely dubious

Sounds like they have a team of potentially single figure handicappers who barely play rounds for handicapping purposes. To be that consistent is suspect given the nature of golfers is to be inconsistent - everyone can see their golf handicap history, I bet you most peoples looks like a Sin/Cos wave

Can they? Where?

willabur

sorry, I meant everyone can see their own golf handicap history. Trying to make a point that the golfer who plays at pierce purcell level will hit their handicap 8 times out of 20 by definition. Arriving to competition with one of your 8 great rounds ready to go is quite a skill set to have

Pdoghue

willabur wrote: »

sorry, I meant everyone can see their own golf handicap history. Trying to make a point that the golfer who plays at pierce purcell level will hit their handicap 8 times out of 20 by definition. Arriving to competition with one of your 8 great rounds ready to go is quite a skill set to have

Players who play Pierce Purcell or any interclub will have arrived at their handicap by virtue of their best 8 scores out of 20 prior to 1 January. By the time it comes to May or June when the competition starts quite a few players, especially young lads, will be playing to a better level than that. I actually think the interclubs would be better if they had handicap limits based on up to date handicaps. But then I suppose you'd have lads protecting their handicaps to stay on the team.

Regarding the comments about a certain PP team having half the lads on it being single figure players in reality makes a mockery of the whole thing.

willabur

Pdoghue wrote: »

Players who play Pierce Purcell or any interclub will have arrived at their handicap by virtue of their best 8 scores out of 20 prior to 1 January. By the time it comes to May or June when the competition starts quite a few players, especially young lads, will be playing to a better level than that. I actually think the interclubs would be better if they had handicap limits based on up to date handicaps. But then I suppose you'd have lads protecting their handicaps to stay on the team.

Regarding the comments about a certain PP team having half the lads on it being single figure players in reality makes a mockery of the whole thing.

That's it. Anyone can have a seriously hot streak on a given day or couple of days but for multiple lads on the same team doing in in the same tournament year after year....