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Solving the “middle lane hoggers” problem.

12467

Comments

  • #152
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Okay. Explain the logic to me then. Why is it illegal to undertake.

    Becuase it is?


  • #153
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ED E wrote: »
    Nope. No RPU member is dedicated to traffic, their local super can get them to do anything and the roads policing office can't stop them.

    ?? I said if:confused:


  • #154
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    tom1ie wrote: »
    So you don’t see the problem in, car a driving at 100kph in l1, car b driving at 80kph in l2.
    Car a cannot undertake car b, therefore car a now has to merge into l2, merge into l3, overtake car b, merge back into l2, then merge back into l1 the driving lane.
    All the while car b gets off Scot free driving at 80kph causing car a to perform 5 extra movements.
    You don’t see the problem with this?
    If that’s the case no wonder Irish drivers have such a bad rep.

    I've never had a problem doing that.


  • #155
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    It'll happen here eventually too no doubt.

    The m50 is in the process of getting variable speed gantrys installed. Well the commas cable at the moment anyway.


  • #156
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    tom1ie wrote: »
    But the mlh is causing an obstruction. Is this not illegal aswell?

    The problem with "MLH" is they become filter lanes. The reason your MLH is there now, is becuase they anticipate needing to be there later.


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  • #157
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Everyone thinks their countries are the worst at driving, almost without exception. In reality, we're not that bad here and a lot of our issues are caused by poor infrastructure, including lack of signage.





    The only time that I've seen MLH on a somewhat regular basis is when L1 is fairly busy anyway. I drive the M1 regularly and this is not the case. It is very rare that L1 is empty and L2 busy.

    Literally the only time I overstay my welcome in lane 2 is when dipping in and out is counter-productive. Let's say you (120km/h) overtake Car A travelling 100km/h in the left lane. There's another one (Car B) in L1 200m ahead of you doing the same speed.

    If you move into L1, as you're supposed to, there's now not enough space for anyone following in L2 to safely move into L1 so they keep overtaking the three of you (you sandwiched between Cars A and B). It's a PITA to move left for 4 seconds then spend another 30 seconds waiting for a gap to appear to overtake Car B. Even more so now that you're travelling slower than the lane into which you are trying to merge. It is much more straightforward (and safer, imo) to just stay in L2 until there's sufficient room.

    I agree with this, but my op was about drivers that stay in l2 for the entirety of their journeys when l1 is clear.


  • #158
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I've never had a problem doing that.

    Great, me neither, but those 5 extra movements introduce risk and effect other cars around you. This in turn has a knock on effect, which leads to traffic congestion.


  • #159
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I agree with this, but my op was about drivers that stay in l2 for the entirety of their journeys when l1 is clear.

    I think its very unlikely in that situation you NEVER get a chance to move to 3 lane and overtake.


  • #160
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Great, me neither, but those 5 extra movements introduce risk and effect other cars around you. This in turn has a knock on effect, which leads to traffic congestion.

    Which is why they tell you to stay in lane as much as possible in times of high congestion. Including the 2 lane.


  • #161
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    I think its very unlikely in that situation you NEVER get a chance to move to 3 lane and overtake.

    I didn’t say you never get a chance, I’m saying why should I have to make 5 manoeuvres at high speed because some ignorant (and I mean ignorant in that they don’t know they are in the wrong) driver, is driving at 80kph in l2.


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  • #162
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tuxy wrote: »
    Just think of the impact that has to traffic flow. You should be able to overtake slower cars while in the middle lane and then people who want to go even faster can overtake you in the right lane. The middle lane hoggers causes more traffic to be in the right lane than any other.
    The M50 is a mess that there may be no hope for. But the other roads with 3 lanes only have 2 usable lanes currently.

    I'm on the M50 the whole time, I don't see the issue. I could see it being a frustration if you are very impatient.


  • #163
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    Which is why they tell you to stay in lane as much as possible in times of high congestion. Including the 2 lane.

    And what about times without high congestion?


  • #164
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    I'm on the M50 the whole time, I don't see the issue. I could see it being a frustration if you are very impatient.

    I’d say you don’t see the problem as you ARE the problem.


  • #165
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I didn’t say you never get a chance, I’m saying why should I have to make 5 manoeuvres at high speed because some ignorant (and I mean ignorant in that they don’t know they are in the wrong) driver, is driving at 80kph in l2.

    Overtaking and passing a high speed is normal on a motorway.

    Motorways with their high speed are safer than most other roads.

    Whats the problem?


  • #166
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Great, me neither, but those 5 extra movements introduce risk and effect other cars around you. This in turn has a knock on effect, which leads to traffic congestion.

    I don't change lanes unless it's safe and clear to do so. I've often slowed down and let people who had no intention of passing the MLH overtake me, bunch up behind them, then I over took all of them on the outside.


  • #167
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I’d say you don’t see the problem as you ARE the problem.

    I'm not the one claiming to have a problem with overtaking at high speed.


  • #168
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    Overtaking and passing a high speed is normal on a motorway.

    Motorways with their high speed are safer than most other roads.

    Whats the problem?

    Beauf, if you were to risk assess something, would you say it’s safer to drive in a straight line at a constant speed, or have to change lanes varying your speed to overtake an obstruction?
    Which one is riskier?


  • #169
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Okay. Explain the logic to me then. Why is it illegal to undertake.

    Because we've decided we want everyone to expect that.

    Its not the same in every country.

    Same as turning on red, or cyclists going through on red.


  • #170
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    I'm not the one claiming to have a problem with overtaking at high speed.

    I don’t. I’m saying it introduces more risk and has a knock on effect on traffic.
    Not sure how you can argue that.


  • #171
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Beauf, if you were to risk assess something, would you say it’s safer to drive in a straight line at a constant speed, or have to change lanes varying your speed to overtake an obstruction?
    Which one is riskier?

    How do you propose getting on and off a motorway without changing lanes.

    Its not an obstruction. Its simply other traffic.


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  • #172
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,354 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    tom1ie wrote: »
    But the mlh is causing an obstruction. Is this not illegal aswell?

    Yep. But it’s not enforced. I’ve just come off the M50. Doing 100 in L1 from Red Cow to Tallaght in relatively light traffic. Another few cars in L2, also on the speed limit. Easily could have merged into L1, but didn’t because... well... muppets. And another line of cars in L3. Also doing the limit. All that traffic would have fit in L1 along that stretch. The funny part was the last car in line on L3 was a Garda roads policing BMW.

    Go figure. We had a line of traffic. A line of muppets, and a line of muppets +VAT. And a Garda vehicle tasked with policing the muppets who instead elected to join them. That’s why Irish motorways don’t work.


  • #173
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    How do you propose getting on and off a motorway without changing lanes.

    Its not an obstruction. Its simply other traffic.

    Just answer the question, which ones riskier?


  • #174
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Beauf, if you were to risk assess something, would you say it’s safer to drive in a straight line at a constant speed, or have to change lanes varying your speed to overtake an obstruction?
    Which one is riskier?

    So this is your problem. You see other drivers before you as an obstruction.


  • #175
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    So this is your problem. You see other drivers before you as an obstruction.

    If they are doing something illegal absolutely I do yes.


  • #176
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I don’t. I’m saying it introduces more risk and has a knock on effect on traffic.
    Not sure how you can argue that.

    If you are driving in congested traffic like the M50 its already congested. Lane changes are going to make negligible difference.

    If you are driving down the country there is no traffic most of the time anyway.


  • #177
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    If they are doing something illegal absolutely I do yes.

    Shouldn't effect you, you anticipate and move lanes early and in good time. Should have negligible effect on you.


  • #178
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭plodder


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And in this very rare scenario, if they all pull back into lane 1, after the manoeuvre there will be no issue.
    There's nothing rare about it. It happens all the time and is exactly what I was talking about in the previous post, where some seem to think they have a god given right to a clear lane ahead of them, to drive "at the speed limit" :rolleyes:


  • #179
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    Shouldn't effect you, you anticipate and move lanes early and in good time. Should have negligible effect on you.

    I don’t think we are going to find any common ground here beauf, just stop driving in l2 at 80kph will ya!:D


  • #180
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I drive a fair bit around the country.

    For starters,

    The general standard of driving in the north is massively superior to the republic. Free state drivers are abysmal.

    Free state driving is also policed abysmally. The roads are treated as cash points. The Gards set up checkpoints for speeding, they grab a few quid. Furthermore they ramp up the alcohol testing around bank holidays , that is all. They use the greater Dublin area as a cash making machine.

    This is all well and good, but it does nothing for driver safety and for driver discipline on the roads. The standard of driving is very poor. People hogging the overtaking lane, as if it is their human right or something, very dangerous driving. Everyone indicates while they are making manoeuvres and drivers are clueless when entering the motorway.

    I am not surprised when I see the stats on collisions.

    As I alluded to earlier the Gards are not interested in policing drivers, they are just interested in fining them. As a result drivers just drive to combat being caught, rather than having any ounce of respect for their fellow road users.

    I am not trying to antagonise any road users with the north south comparison, but I would urge people to drive in the north to see the difference.

    Finally it needs to be also noted that the PSNI are a lot more polite with road users when they are asking questions and or dealing with the general public. The Gards speak to you like schoolchildren, corrupt **** half of them. Most of the bad and illegal driving done in the south is carried out by off duty cops. Just saying.


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  • #181
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I don’t think we are going to find any common ground here beauf, just stop driving in l2 at 80kph will ya!:D



    Basically you want people to leave lane 2 clear so you can drive in it.


  • #182
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    Basically you want people to leave lane 2 clear so you can drive in it.

    Nope. I drive in l1. The driving lane.


  • #183
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,354 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Free state

    I am not trying to antagonise

    Ah, you kinda are though, aren’t you.

    ;)


  • #184
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,354 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    beauf wrote: »
    Free state there is an ironic term.

    Consider me ironed.


  • #185
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Nope. I drive in l1. The driving lane.

    L2 is hardly a problem then is it.


  • #186
    mfceiling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,870 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    It will never be solved.

    I've seen drivers sit in the middle lane of both the m50 and the N7 at 4 in the morning...and I mean lots of cars.
    People are stupid and oblivious that they are wrong.

    I pulled my wife about it recently and we ended up having an argument about it. She states that she's doing nothing wrong and that she's always driven in the middle lane.
    I called her an idiot and told her she shouldn't be allowed near a motorway until she learns and understands lane discipline.


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  • #187
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    My missus had her full licence a year before she ventured onto a motorway. So one day I made her drive from Tallaght to Courtown. I told her to stay in lane 1 unless she needed to overtake. Guess what. Lane 1 all the way to Wexford.

    Now if a new driver can manage that, so can anyone making excuses otherwise.


  • #188
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    endacl wrote: »
    Explain it to you? Wouldn’t it be simpler if you were to just put your driving license back in the cornflakes box you found it in?

    :D


    I think you're the third person to make a hilarious comment rather than explaining the apparently simple logic as to why undertaking is illegal. Do you even know yourself? The fact that it's legal in other countries means it's clearly contentious.


  • #189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Because we've decided we want everyone to expect that.

    Its not the same in every country.

    Same as turning on red, or cyclists going through on red.


    Fair enough. It is because it is.

    If that's it, we should decide as a country to change this if we want to solve the MLH problem. I can't see why undertaking shouldn't be legal.


  • #190
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Fair enough. It is because it is.

    If that's it, we should decide as a country to change this if we want to solve the MLH problem. I can't see why undertaking shouldn't be legal.

    Wouldn't it be great if we could all pick and choose which laws we want to abide by.


  • #191
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be great if we could all pick and choose which laws we want to abide by.


    Where oh where did I say anything like that


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  • #192
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be great if we could all pick and choose which laws we want to abide by.

    Isn't that why this thread exists because people are doing exactly that.


  • #193
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    pablo128 wrote: »
    My missus had her full licence a year before she ventured onto a motorway. So one day I made her drive from Tallaght to Courtown. I told her to stay in lane 1 unless she needed to overtake. Guess what. Lane 1 all the way to Wexford.

    Now if a new driver can manage that, so can anyone making excuses otherwise.

    Drive all the way to from Tallaght to Wexford in Lane 1?
    95% of drivers wouldn't do this. Nonsense contribution.

    Just back from Phoenix. Driving on the 6 lane orbital loop every day without issue. Why have 6 lanes if everyone should stay in lane 1?

    People on this thread wouldn’t stand a chance driving there because they can’t or are afraid to use common sense.


  • #194
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Fair enough. It is because it is.

    If that's it, we should decide as a country to change this if we want to solve the MLH problem. I can't see why undertaking shouldn't be legal.

    Undertaking increases the chances of collisions, which at 100kmph have the potential for serious damage.

    The current ROTR are fine.
    Stay in L1 unless you're overtaking a car in L1.
    Only use L3 if you're overtaking a car in L3.
    Chances of accident due to cars weaving from left and right minimised.

    How hard is it to (a) just drive at the speed limit, and (b) just pull back into L1 when you're done overtaking?

    Lots of blathering, but the rules are perfectly straightforward - it says an awful, awful lot about the ability of most Irish drivers that they can't adhere to speed limits and manage a slight tilt of the head to look in the mirror and flick of the wrist to steer back into correct lane.


  • #195
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,775 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    beauf wrote: »
    L2 is hardly a problem then is it.

    It is as I like to drive at 100kph. However I'm not allowed undertake, so I have to then execute five manoeuvres that shouldn't have to be executed.
    Do you understand now or is this still too complicated for you?


  • #196
    bmc58
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,007 ✭✭✭bmc58


    tom1ie wrote: »
    So as the title of this thread suggests I’m putting forward an idea to maybe help with the problem of people driving in the middle lane of a 3 lane motorway when there is no traffic in the left hand driving lane of that motorway.
    Paint road markings on the middle lane and the outside lane that say “please merge into lane 1 for driving lane. Overtaking lane only.”
    I’m sure this could be shortened. It should be accompanied by a merge arrow.
    Would this work?
    We have a big problem with people not even knowing they are driving incorrectly on 3 lane motorway, so why don’t we tell them when they are on the actual motorway by using the paint coupled with overhead gantrys.
    Please discuss and tell me why it’s a terrible idea and destined not to work :D

    If they are not bothering you or anyone else let them off.No point in getting upset over idiots who dont know the rules of motorway driving.You do the right thing and don't mind fools.


  • #197
    FrToddUnctious
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭FrToddUnctious


    Paddigol wrote: »
    Undertaking increases the chances of collisions

    Explain how?


  • #198
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    FrToddUnctious wrote: »
    Explain how?

    Idiots veering across 2 lanes at the last minute for an exit.

    That's one example.


  • #199
    FrToddUnctious
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭FrToddUnctious


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Idiots veering across 2 lanes at the last minute for an exit.

    That's one example.

    How is that related to undertaking?


  • #200
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    FrToddUnctious wrote: »
    How is that related to undertaking?

    Ah here if I have to explain it to you....


  • #201
    FrToddUnctious
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭FrToddUnctious


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Ah here if I have to explain it to you....

    Go on shur, people going from lane 3 to 1 at the last minute to get their exit, how does that have any relation to undertaking?


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