Solving the “middle lane hoggers” problem.

endacl · 14-01-2020 12:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So everyone should be in the left lane unless overtaking? That may be the rules but I don't get the logic.

And that’s why motorways don’t work here. Irish drivers, by and large, don’t ‘get the logic’.

Motorways don’t work like other roads. They work like motorways. Muppets driving in the overtaking lanes are the reason they don’t flow. Outside of especially busy times, if you can’t drive the speed limit on a motorway, it’s because somebody else doesn’t ‘get the logic’.

Wombatman · 14-01-2020 12:48pm

I can’t imagine many have been pulled over or awarded penalty points for staying in an outer lane for extended periods.
I do it to avoid weaving in and out and constantly whacking cats eyes.

Henry Ford III · 14-01-2020 12:59pm

beauf wrote: »

The m50 is often congested and has lots of exits and entrances very close together. Its not the same as being a motorway with 10 km between exits.

I agree.

It's more difficult to exercise proper lane discipline in such conditions. Doesn't mean you shouldn't though.

beauf · 14-01-2020 1:10pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I agree.

It's more difficult to exercise proper lane discipline in such conditions. Doesn't mean you shouldn't though.

The issue is proper lane discipline isn't the same in all conditions.

Which is why they have smart motorways.

14-01-2020 1:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell. "That fecker is sitting in the middle lane and won't move left, which means I can't sit in the middle lane and have to move right".

That fecker is sitting in the middle lane so I have to move from lane 1 to 3.

Now I am in lane 3 and overtaking the several fools in lane 2 but, as I am doing the speed limit I am causing a backlog of traffic wanting to go faster.

Now we have 2 lanes blocked and a ghosted lane one, because of feckers in lane 2

14-01-2020 1:20pm

Princess Calla wrote: »

I find Lane 3 hoggers a hell of alot more annoying than middle Lane hoggers tbh.

Hog Lane 3 and you are forcing everyone else to either undertake or travel at your desired speed.

I really don't care if you are doing bang on 100 or 120, it's not your job to police the roads.

Unless you are actively travelling at a speed faster than the other 2 lanes and overtaking, move over!!

This is problem but is heavily compounded by the fact that the lane 3 driver may indeed be overtaking lane 2 but still moving slower that lane 3 should be.
If the lane 2 hoggers were in lane 1, then the slower overtaker would not need to be in lane 3.

14-01-2020 1:21pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Undertaking is passing on the lhs.

Slow moving traffic has been defined elsewhere as "stop/start conditions".

Cruising past a middle lane hogger in lane 1 at 120kph is illegal and dangerous too. You must get out into lane 3 and then back in to lane 1 again.

Which is also dangerous and why you are not meant to make someone cross from 1 to 3, by hogging lane 2.

plodder · 14-01-2020 1:21pm

endacl wrote: »

And that’s why motorways don’t work here. Irish drivers, by and large, don’t ‘get the logic’.

Motorways don’t work like other roads. They work like motorways. Muppets driving in the overtaking lanes are the reason they don’t flow. Outside of especially busy times, if you can’t drive the speed limit on a motorway, it’s because somebody else doesn’t ‘get the logic’.

You could have a truck in lane 1 doing 80, being overtaken by a car in lane 2 doing 90, being overtaken by another in lane 3 doing 100. All perfectly correct and legal and happens every day.

14-01-2020 1:22pm

endacl wrote: »

And that’s why motorways don’t work here. Irish drivers, by and large, don’t ‘get the logic’.

Motorways don’t work like other roads. They work like motorways. Muppets driving in the overtaking lanes are the reason they don’t flow. Outside of especially busy times, if you can’t drive the speed limit on a motorway, it’s because somebody else doesn’t ‘get the logic’.

Okay. Explain the logic to me then. Why is it illegal to undertake.

14-01-2020 1:22pm

beauf wrote: »

The m50 is often congested and has lots of exits and entrances very close together. Its not the same as being a motorway with 10 km between exits.

The M50 is a glorified ring road TBH, at peak times

14-01-2020 1:24pm

plodder wrote: »

You could have a truck in lane 1 doing 80, being overtaken by a car in lane 2 doing 90, being overtaken by another in lane 3 doing 100. All perfectly correct and legal and happens every day.

And in this very rare scenario, if they all pull back into lane 1, after the manoeuvre there will be no issue.

beauf · 14-01-2020 1:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The M50 is a glorified ring road TBH, at peak times

Its one and the same thing?

ring roads, particularly those of motorway standard which are longer in length, are often known as "orbital motorways".

The M50 motorway (Irish: Mótarbhealach M50) is a C-shaped orbital motorway in Dublin and the busiest motorway in Ireland.

tom1ie · 14-01-2020 1:37pm

beauf wrote: »

Why not just overtake them?

Maybe you're not allowed in the overtaking lane is that the issue?

Because you are driving in lane 1.
Because of mlh, you now have to merge into l2 and then l3 to overtake.
Unless you undertake, which is illegal.

tom1ie · 14-01-2020 1:40pm

beauf wrote: »

It is very rare to see lane 1 empty and lanes 2 and 3 full.

Usually when there are middle lane hoggers, lane 3 is free enough to overtake. Unless there is a lane hogger in lane 3.

You must not do much motorway driving. This scenario, of an empty l1 but busy l2 happens all the time on the n4, n7 m50 m1......

beauf · 14-01-2020 1:41pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Because you are driving in lane 1.
Because of mlh, you now have to merge into l2 and then l3 to overtake. ....

So whats the problem. You should know how to do this.

Its normal driving.

beauf · 14-01-2020 1:42pm

tom1ie wrote: »

You must not do much motorway driving. This scenario, of an empty l1 but busy l2 happens all the time on the n4, n7 m50 m1......

Use L3 end of issue?

tom1ie · 14-01-2020 1:43pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Given that many cars on the M50 can't do a consistent speed or don't drive at the limit when there's no reason not to, or in moderate traffic refuse to keep up with traffic around them, I'm quite entitled to be where I am as I'm constantly overtaking/passing others.

Then, as you rightly say, you also have dawdling idiots trundling into lane 1 from the slip road at 60/70, forcing trucks and other vehicles to brake suddenly (not a trivial thing in a truck) and also having the effect of boxing in cars behind them on the slip road and making cars behind that truck take actions that would otherwise be unnecessary as well.

Until that changes - through better education and enforcement - I'll continue to sit out in lane 3 and leave them at it thanks.

However, off-peak, or on quieter stretches of the M50 or other motorways, absolutely do I drive on the left.

The onus is on the vehicle merging onto the motorway to match speed and find a gap to safely merge onto the motorway.
Again something that just doesn’t happen or isn’t enforced.

tuxy · 14-01-2020 1:45pm

beauf wrote: »

Use L3 end of issue?

Just think of the impact that has to traffic flow. You should be able to overtake slower cars while in the middle lane and then people who want to go even faster can overtake you in the right lane. The middle lane hoggers causes more traffic to be in the right lane than any other.
The M50 is a mess that there may be no hope for. But the other roads with 3 lanes only have 2 usable lanes currently.

ED E · 14-01-2020 1:46pm

tom1ie wrote: »

If we had 2000 guards dedicated to the traffic core dedicated to the M50 we'd still have mlh's (middle lane hoggers ðŸ˜€)
I've even seen guards guilty of the above.

Nope. No RPU member is dedicated to traffic, their local super can get them to do anything and the roads policing office can't stop them.

14-01-2020 1:48pm

tuxy wrote: »

Just think of the impact that has to traffic flow. You should be able to overtake slower cars while in the middle lane and then people who want to go even faster can overtake you in the right lane. The middle lane hoggers causes more traffic to be in the right lane than any other.
The M50 is a mess that there may be no hope for. But the other roads with 3 lanes only have 2 usable lanes currently.

I really don't understand how people "seem" to not get that reducing a 3 lane motorway to an effective usable 2 lane causes traffic.

Here is 3 litres of water in a three litre jug. I am going to pour a litre of sand into that jug but I still expect there to be no water spill out...

Henry Ford III · 14-01-2020 1:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is also dangerous and why you are not meant to make someone cross from 1 to 3, by hogging lane 2.

Overtaking properly and legally is never dangerous if done correctly.

Henry Ford III · 14-01-2020 1:58pm

beauf wrote: »

The issue is proper lane discipline isn't the same in all conditions.

Which is why they have smart motorways.

That makes no sense.

p.s. Who has smart motorways and how might they differ from ordinary ones?

chooseusername · 14-01-2020 2:03pm

tom1ie wrote: »

So as the title of this thread suggests I’m putting forward an idea to maybe help with the problem of people driving in the middle lane of a 3 lane motorway when there is no traffic in the left hand driving lane of that motorway.
Paint road markings on the middle lane and the outside lane that say “please merge into lane 1 for driving lane. Overtaking lane only.”
I’m sure this could be shortened. It should be accompanied by a merge arrow.
Would this work?
We have a big problem with people not even knowing they are driving incorrectly on 3 lane motorway, so why don’t we tell them when they are on the actual motorway by using the paint coupled with overhead gantrys.
Please discuss and tell me why it’s a terrible idea and destined not to work

On an Irish motorway this would be written;

lane only!
overtaking
lane.
for driving
into lane 1
please merge

by the time you've figured tha...........

tuxy · 14-01-2020 2:04pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That makes no sense.

p.s. Who has smart motorways and how might they differ from ordinary ones?

The UK, smart motorways have variable speed limits and open the hard shoulder as a driving lane when traffic is congested and moving slow.
Loads of digital signs to keep drivers update on what they should do.
Mixed opinion on if it's a good idea and some consider the lack of hard should dangerous.

Henry Ford III · 14-01-2020 2:10pm

tuxy wrote: »

The UK, smart motorways have variable speed limits and open the hard shoulder as a driving lane when traffic is congested and moving slow.
Loads of digital signs to keep drivers update on what they should do.
Mixed opinion on if it's a good idea and some consider the lack of hard should dangerous.

It'll happen here eventually too no doubt.

14-01-2020 2:10pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

To be honest the standard of motorway driving here is so poor, closing them for a few weeks while everyone is educated properly on how to use them is probably not a bad thing.

Have driven all over Europe, South Africa and New Zealand and irish driving is some of the poorest out there on motorways.

Everyone thinks their countries are the worst at driving, almost without exception. In reality, we're not that bad here and a lot of our issues are caused by poor infrastructure, including lack of signage.

tom1ie wrote: »

You must not do much motorway driving. This scenario, of an empty l1 but busy l2 happens all the time on the n4, n7 m50 m1......

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't understand how people "seem" to not get that reducing a 3 lane motorway to an effective usable 2 lane causes traffic.

The only time that I've seen MLH on a somewhat regular basis is when L1 is fairly busy anyway. I drive the M1 regularly and this is not the case. It is very rare that L1 is empty and L2 busy.

Literally the only time I overstay my welcome in lane 2 is when dipping in and out is counter-productive. Let's say you (120km/h) overtake Car A travelling 100km/h in the left lane. There's another one (Car

in L1 200m ahead of you doing the same speed.

If you move into L1, as you're supposed to, there's now not enough space for anyone following in L2 to safely move into L1 so they keep overtaking the three of you (you sandwiched between Cars A and

. It's a PITA to move left for 4 seconds then spend another 30 seconds waiting for a gap to appear to overtake Car B. Even more so now that you're travelling slower than the lane into which you are trying to merge. It is much more straightforward (and safer, imo) to just stay in L2 until there's sufficient room.

chooseusername · 14-01-2020 2:10pm

tuxy wrote: »

The UK, smart motorways have variable speed limits and open the hard shoulder as a driving lane when traffic is congested and moving slow.
Loads of digital signs to keep drivers update on what they should do.
Mixed opinion on if it's a good idea and some consider the lack of hard should dangerous.

I call hard shoulder, when open, the undertaking lane,as it is the least used when motorway is congested.

endacl · 14-01-2020 2:36pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Okay. Explain the logic to me then. Why is it illegal to undertake.

Explain it to you? Wouldn’t it be simpler if you were to just put your driving license back in the cornflakes box you found it in?

tom1ie · 14-01-2020 2:43pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Undertaking is passing on the lhs.

Slow moving traffic has been defined elsewhere as "stop/start conditions".

Cruising past a middle lane hogger in lane 1 at 120kph is illegal and dangerous too. You must get out into lane 3 and then back in to lane 1 again.

But the mlh is causing an obstruction. Is this not illegal aswell?

tom1ie · 14-01-2020 2:48pm

beauf wrote: »

So whats the problem. You should know how to do this.

Its normal driving.

So you don’t see the problem in, car a driving at 100kph in l1, car b driving at 80kph in l2.
Car a cannot undertake car b, therefore car a now has to merge into l2, merge into l3, overtake car b, merge back into l2, then merge back into l1 the driving lane.
All the while car b gets off Scot free driving at 80kph causing car a to perform 5 extra movements.
You don’t see the problem with this?
If that’s the case no wonder Irish drivers have such a bad rep.

Solving the “middle lane hoggers” problem.

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