Solving the “middle lane hoggers” problem.

mc25

I'm absolutely no authority on this, because I don't drive around Dublin very often, but usually when I do the left lane is full of lorries, obviously going less than the 100/120km/h.
So am I supposed to drive in that lane and weave between them, including passing the people sitting in the middle lane?
Or do as I treat the two right lanes as I would a normal two-lane road?

The J Stands for Jay

Where the roads change from 2 to 3 lanes should be redesigned. If you are in lane 1 and do nothing, you are suddenly in lane 2.

plodder

I don't really buy this argument that road capacity is fundamentally reduced by MLH. I think people who complain about it, are looking for everyone else (but themselves) to be in the left two lanes. When roads become congested, all space gets used efficiently, and it's at times of peak usage where efficient road use matters. As the blog post from the AA actually says. You shouldn't be driving in the middle lane when the left lane is empty. That is not saying you should be weaving in and out, only using the middle lane for overtaking.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Wouldn't work on something like the M50 where the sheer volume of traffic and number of exits/merges in close proximity mean that all lanes become driving lanes at rush hour. all would do is cause even more lane-hopping than there is now.

Outside of busy periods, it's unnecessary anyway. I always fail to see what the obsession is with middle lane drivers. Just overtake them and be done with it and focus on your own driving.

Because they cause an entire inner lane to be ignored on all other 3 lane motorways, not just the M50.

So you end up with a 2 lane motorway and an entire lane dedicated to entry/exit traffic

plodder

plodder wrote: »

I don't really buy this argument that road capacity is fundamentally reduced by MLH. I think people who complain about it, are looking for everyone else (but themselves) to be in the left two lanes. When roads become congested, all space gets used efficiently, and it's at times of peak usage where efficient road use matters. As the blog post from the AA actually says. You shouldn't be driving in the middle lane when the left lane is empty. That is not saying you should be weaving in and out, only using the middle lane for overtaking.

Drive from Naas to Dublin on a Saturday morning and you'll see that extra traffic slow both overtaking lanes quite easily

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Drive from Naas to Dublin on a Saturday morning and you'll see that extra traffic slow both overtaking lanes quite easily

Is that not an inevitable result of congestion. Surely it would be slower if everyone tries to stay in the left most lane.

tom1ie

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't venture too far out of Dublin but I do a lot of driving for work. I don't see this as a huge problem. I don't imagine we have too many three lane motorways outside of Dublin.

M7, n4, m1

tom1ie

beauf wrote: »

The standard of driving is brutal in this country. All day long you see bad driving. Why you cherry pick this?

One of the least annoying things is middle lane hoggers. You can simply overtake them. End of.

Nope. The problem is it reduces the capacity of the motorway as people will not undertake. (it's against the law)

tom1ie

beauf wrote: »

Just put an ad on TV and/or Netflix ...

People ignore that. The best way to get into people's heads is to put it right in front of them. In other words paint the road in front of them.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that not an inevitable result of congestion. Surely it would be slower if everyone tries to stay in the left most lane.

No, when you have an entire inner lane empty because a few numpties hog the middle lane.

People, correctly will not overtake on the inner lane. Have to move from lane 1-3 to overtake. Reduces the 3 lane motorway to 2 lanes and they can not, realistically move from 1 to 3 to 1 safely repeatedly.

Compounds it all when trucks now lose their overtaking lane and also have to drive in lane 2, slowing everything down again.

plodder

Deleted User wrote: »

Drive from Naas to Dublin on a Saturday morning and you'll see that extra traffic slow both overtaking lanes quite easily

I'd do that journey occasionally both ways on a Sunday, and yes there are lots of middle lane hoggers. But, it has never stopped me from getting to my destination at 100 km/h.

Homesick Alien

If I am driving the speed limit in the left lane and someone is doing 90 in the middle lane am I performing an illegal act by just staying in my lane and undertaking the MLH or do I have veer acroos two lanes to overtake and then back across two lanes to get back in the left lane? This is my main issue with MLHs.

tuxy

mc25 wrote: »

I'm absolutely no authority on this, because I don't drive around Dublin very often, but usually when I do the left lane is full of lorries, obviously going less than the 100/120km/h.
So am I supposed to drive in that lane and weave between them, including passing the people sitting in the middle lane?
Or do as I treat the two right lanes as I would a normal two-lane road?

If the left lane is completely full with slower traffic then you will be constantly overtaking others while in the middle lane which is how the middle lane should be used.

tuxy

Homesick Alien wrote: »

If I am driving the speed limit in the left lane and someone is doing 90 in the middle lane am I performing an illegal act by just staying in my lane and undertaking the MLH or do I have veer acroos two lanes to overtake and then back across two lanes to get back in the left lane? This is my main issue with MLHs.

Illegal at that speed, only acceptable in traffic jam type situations.
I'd love to pass the majority of cars by using the driving lane but the risk is far too high for me. People who do decide to move into the driving lane will not expect a fast moving car.

The penny is finally beginning to drop here. I think, without a doubt, the problem is with how we're educated driving. I managed to pass my test about 5 years ago and there was almost nothing regarding to driving on the motorway. You're not even allowed to drive on the motorway with a provisional. There's new drivers who start with no experience, if they fully obeyed the law, or no knowledge of how to drive on motorways.

I literally learned from this thread that you aren't able to pass on the inside. The only reason I could find after some googling is that it's the law. The idea is reduce the amount of variables as switching lanes is the most dangerous aspect of driving on a motorway apparently. I personally don't think that's a good enough reason as we end up with this constant debacle.

The idea that if everyone stayed in the left lane and only overtook in the other lanes, that it would solve congestion is fantasy. The real solution is to allow undertaking imo.

I should not have been able to pass my test without knowing how to properly drive on a motorway. Evidently, I'm not alone.

tuxy

While ideally motorways should be part of the test many test centres are well over an hour from one so it's impractical.
As with other parts of the law it's up the each citizen to understand it, ignorance is no excuse.
Only a small minority of drivers use lanes correctly so you can not see the benefit it has on traffic flow.
If you were to drive in America where undertaking is perfectly legal you can see the carnage that causes.

beauf

Deleted User wrote: »

Because they cause an entire inner lane to be ignored on all other 3 lane motorways, not just the M50.

So you end up with a 2 lane motorway and an entire lane dedicated to entry/exit traffic

It is very rare to see lane 1 empty and lanes 2 and 3 full.

Usually when there are middle lane hoggers, lane 3 is free enough to overtake. Unless there is a lane hogger in lane 3.

beauf

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that not an inevitable result of congestion. Surely it would be slower if everyone tries to stay in the left most lane.

Certainly you have drive a little differently in heavy congestion.

Often, during times of congestion on smart motorways, the overhead gantries will display advice to ‘stay in lane’.

_Kaiser_

tom1ie wrote: »

So you break the rules of the road.
Drive on the left, is the overriding rule.
Lane 2 and 3 are overtaking lanes.
Traffic merging onto the motorway must match their speed with the speed of traffic on the motorway, not the other way around.

Given that many cars on the M50 can't do a consistent speed or don't drive at the limit when there's no reason not to, or in moderate traffic refuse to keep up with traffic around them, I'm quite entitled to be where I am as I'm constantly overtaking/passing others.

Then, as you rightly say, you also have dawdling idiots trundling into lane 1 from the slip road at 60/70, forcing trucks and other vehicles to brake suddenly (not a trivial thing in a truck) and also having the effect of boxing in cars behind them on the slip road and making cars behind that truck take actions that would otherwise be unnecessary as well.

Until that changes - through better education and enforcement - I'll continue to sit out in lane 3 and leave them at it thanks.

However, off-peak, or on quieter stretches of the M50 or other motorways, absolutely do I drive on the left.

Princess Calla

I find Lane 3 hoggers a hell of alot more annoying than middle Lane hoggers tbh.

Hog Lane 3 and you are forcing everyone else to either undertake or travel at your desired speed.

I really don't care if you are doing bang on 100 or 120, it's not your job to police the roads.

Unless you are actively travelling at a speed faster than the other 2 lanes and overtaking, move over!!

blackbox

blackbox wrote: »

People complain about changing lanes, but it is the people who don't change lanes are the problem?
How hard is it?

This is it in a nutshell. "That fecker is sitting in the middle lane and won't move left, which means I can't sit in the middle lane and have to move right".

Henry Ford III

Deleted User wrote: »

The penny is finally beginning to drop here. I think, without a doubt, the problem is with how we're educated driving. I managed to pass my test about 5 years ago and there was almost nothing regarding to driving on the motorway. You're not even allowed to drive on the motorway with a provisional. There's new drivers who start with no experience, if they fully obeyed the law, or no knowledge of how to drive on motorways.

I literally learned from this thread that you aren't able to pass on the inside. The only reason I could find after some googling is that it's the law. The idea is reduce the amount of variables as switching lanes is the most dangerous aspect of driving on a motorway apparently. I personally don't think that's a good enough reason as we end up with this constant debacle.

The idea that if everyone stayed in the left lane and only overtook in the other lanes, that it would solve congestion is fantasy. The real solution is to allow undertaking imo.

I should not have been able to pass my test without knowing how to properly drive on a motorway. Evidently, I'm not alone.

N7 is 3 lane dual carriageway nearer Dublin. Good job you weren't asked about how to drive there.

Lane discipline is awful in Ireland. The M50 is lawless. People are lazy and chose to just sit in lane 2.

eusap

Would love to hear a judges understanding of the law

Undertaking = For me this means leave lane 2/3 to go to lane 1/2 to pass a vehicle in Lane 2/3 and then return to lane 2/3.

Passing a Vehicle in slow moving traffic - If i am already in Lane 1 and i pass vehicles in Lane 2/3 who are going slower than lane 1 (inside speed limits) i see this as ok.

The Irish rules or the roads says you can pass on the left in slow moving traffic. But a bit like how long is a piece of string what is "slow moving"

Henry Ford III

Princess Calla wrote: »

I find Lane 3 hoggers a hell of alot more annoying than middle Lane hoggers tbh.

Hog Lane 3 and you are forcing everyone else to either undertake or travel at your desired speed.

I really don't care if you are doing bang on 100 or 120, it's not your job to police the roads.

Unless you are actively travelling at a speed faster than the other 2 lanes and overtaking, move over!!

Nobody is ever forced to undertake.

tuxy

Princess Calla wrote: »

I find Lane 3 hoggers a hell of alot more annoying than middle Lane hoggers tbh.

Hog Lane 3 and you are forcing everyone else to either undertake or travel at your desired speed.

I really don't care if you are doing bang on 100 or 120, it's not your job to police the roads.

Unless you are actively travelling at a speed faster than the other 2 lanes and overtaking, move over!!

But this kind of thinking is part of the problem, middle lane hoggers are just as much of an issue.
If I'm in the driving lane and it's clear for a good distance ahead why should I have to switch over two lanes to the far right just to get past someone without undertaking?
I could then be blocking someone who wants to go faster.

Pinch Flat

To be honest the standard of motorway driving here is so poor, closing them for a few weeks while everyone is educated properly on how to use them is probably not a bad thing.

Have driven all over Europe, South Africa and New Zealand and irish driving is some of the poorest out there on motorways.

Princess Calla

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Nobody is ever forced to undertake.

No I agree, which is why I said or travel at their speed!

Henry Ford III

eusap wrote: »

Would love to hear a judges understanding of the law

Undertaking = For me this means leave lane 2/3 to go to lane 1/2 to pass a vehicle in Lane 2/3 and then return to lane 2/3.

Passing a Vehicle in slow moving traffic - If i am already in Lane 1 and i pass vehicles in Lane 2/3 who are going slower than lane 1 (inside speed limits) i see this as ok.

The Irish rules or the roads says you can pass on the left in slow moving traffic. But a bit like how long is a piece of string what is "slow moving"

Undertaking is passing on the lhs.

Slow moving traffic has been defined elsewhere as "stop/start conditions".

Cruising past a middle lane hogger in lane 1 at 120kph is illegal and dangerous too. You must get out into lane 3 and then back in to lane 1 again.

beauf

Henry Ford III wrote: »

N7 is 3 lane dual carriageway nearer Dublin. Good job you weren't asked about how to drive there.

Lane discipline is awful in Ireland. The M50 is lawless. People are lazy and chose to just sit in lane 2.

The m50 is often congested and has lots of exits and entrances very close together. Its not the same as being a motorway with 10 km between exits.

beauf

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Undertaking is passing on the lhs.

Slow moving traffic has been defined elsewhere as "stop/start conditions".

Cruising past a middle lane hogger in lane 1 at 120kph is illegal and dangerous too. You must get out into lane 3 and then back in to lane 1 again.

The Highyway code in the UK also says...

The Code states: “In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right.

“In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.

"Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.”

Basically don't be a moron about it.