The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (Spoilers)

The White Wolf · 02-04-2021 11:11am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Sharon is 100% the power broker too.

Won't stop people theorizing how it's Doctor Doom or Norman Osborne.

Midnight_EG · 02-04-2021 11:47am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Sharon is 100% the power broker too.

Nah its Mephisto

CastorTroy · 02-04-2021 1:17pm

I think it might be Agnes who I believe is really someone else.

Anyone else find it annoying when people going undercover or sneaking in somewhere always get phonecalls to give them away? Like when I go into a meeting at work I make sure my phone is off or at least on silent. So if I'm going into a meeting where I could possibly be killed, can be sure I'm definitely turning my phone off.

They addressed the question of why the new Super Soldiers aren't all muscly.

And then have the car bomb in case viewers were being empathetic with Karli.

Is the 'A' on Cap's back a magnet and that's how the shield seems to stick and come off so easily?

And I see this was written by the John Wick writer

Penn · 02-04-2021 6:35pm

Enjoyed the episode as a whole, but not a huge fan of what they're doing with Zemo. He was one of the best Marvel villains because of how understated and careful he was, how meticulous he was, and how for the most part he was just an incredible soldier driven to destroy the Avengers. Now he's become a bit of a caricature. They needed him because of what he knew about Hydra when trying to destroy the Avengers, but now he also has this history in Madripoor etc. It's a bit jarring.

The end reveal was pretty class though. Didn't see it coming.

gmisk · 02-04-2021 7:14pm

I quite enjoyed episode 3 overall.
Sharon given a nice chance to shine, she was always really underserved in the films. Some fun dialogue and back and forths. Hopefully she is in more episodes.
Zemo was fun..his moves in the gallery/club ha ha, it helps that Daniel Bruhl is a good actor.

However I will say......christ....who cast the boss in the club?!? Fecking hell she was absolutely awful! The doctor making the super serum wasn't much better.

But hey at least wont be seeing either again!

The actress playing Karli...she is ok...but as a complicated "villain"....nope not working at all for me.

I will continue to watch but it is solid fun rather than a spectacular success so far for me.

PTH2009 · 02-04-2021 7:32pm

Enjoyed this week's episode

Was that

One of black panthers sisters from Wakanda at the end ?

Have a feeling that

Zemos wife and child (maybe one of them) is still alive

Lithium93_ · 02-04-2021 7:34pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Enjoyed this week's episode

Was that
One of black panthers sisters from Wakanda at the end ?

Have a feeling that
Zemos wife and child (maybe one of them) is still alive

Kinda hard for Zemo's wife and kid to be alive when he mentioned in Civil War that he found their bodies two days after the events of Age Of Ultron

The White Wolf · 02-04-2021 7:46pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Kinda hard for Zemo's wife and kid to be alive when he mentioned in Civil War that he found their bodies two days after the events of Age Of Ultron

I think they're saying it's Zemo being literally Machiavellian - he engineered his whole story in CW as part of a bigger scheme.

Not exactly subtle stuff.

Penn · 02-04-2021 8:13pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Enjoyed this week's episode

Was that
One of black panthers sisters from Wakanda at the end ?

Have a feeling that
Zemos wife and child (maybe one of them) is still alive

They're not

Black Panther's sisters, they're his elite security guards, the Dora Milaje. But yeah, she's one of them. She was in Civil War.

Penn · 02-04-2021 8:16pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

I think they're saying it's Zemo being literally Machiavellian - he engineered his whole story in CW as part of a bigger scheme.

Not exactly subtle stuff.

I doubt it, I'd say more so that just his helping Sam & Bucky is the lie as part of the bigger scheme. I really don't think they'd retcon his family's death, especially since so much has happened since then that there was no way Zemo ever could have planned this far ahead, even generally. Everything is happening because of the blip and Cap deciding to give up the shield and go back in time.

Kirby · 02-04-2021 11:37pm

Zemo was probably my favorite villain....with Civil war being my favorite film. Can't say I'm thrilled with what they are doing with him.

Stuff from the Russo's should be left to the Russo's. Everyone else seems to get it wrong. I'd prefer they create new characters rather than butcher some of the existing ones.

expectationlost · 03-04-2021 12:05am

I was expecting Jean-Luc to appear with an eye-patch

PTH2009 · 03-04-2021 12:28am

expectationlost wrote: »

I was expecting Jean-Luc to appear with an eye-patch

:pac:

Imagine if they introduce the xmen into the mcu in a random scene. We got our hopes up in wandavision but were dashed

pah · 03-04-2021 12:44am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Just reading back and I think that's a very good point. It's a fictional universe, but even given that there should be some consistency within it.

Thor powering Ironman's suit up just so there's a fight is nonsense. As is Hulk being knocked clean out by the Hulkbuster suit. Thor seems up and down depending on the story. From what we seen of Spider-man his feats are very up and down. The only two with consistency are Captain America and Iron-man, but very overpowered compared to their comic counterparts.

The character that's the worst for this is Bucky. When bad, he can do anything seemingly. When good, next to useless. The fight at the end of Civil War summed it up for me. It's a point very few people pick up on, the ridiculous and unbelievable manner it happened in.

First we have Bucky's vibranium arm, shown to be able to crush Iron-mans suit (his hand at the start of the fight), does so within a second. Despite his arm, and Cap's shield being their biggest asset in the fight, Bucky spends his time running away. When forced to fight, Bucky pins Iron-man to the wall and goes for his reactor/heart thing. This should have been pulled out in a second, least not destroyed beforehand when Bucky hit it dead on with a vibranium hand, knocking Iron-man against the wall.

Next we see his hand blown in two by a blast from Iron-man's reactor. Can he even shoot blasts from there? Never seen it before that scene. Next Bucky's arm is in two, despite vibranium being indestructible. If anything, surely it should of came off from the shoulder. Next Bucky is helpless on the floor, despite the fact he feels no pain in that arm. Nonsense from start to finish, as far as I'm concerned anyway. The fights logical conclusion was when Bucky went for his heart reactor with a vibranium hand

Calm down lad.

FunLover18 · 03-04-2021 1:56am

Hard to believe that Steve never cleared Sharon's name. Kind of a dick move.

Mark Hamill · 03-04-2021 9:30am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Your standard human, army or not, doesn't be leaping and falling from trucks unscathed. They die, generally

The only normal human who falls from the truck and actually hits something is New Cap. Bucky is a super soldier and Battlestsar lands on Cap's shield. New Cap and Battlestar are both wearing advanced body armor too.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Captain America gave up in the last fight in Winter Soldier, they were at a stalemate at that point. Bucky disappeared in the first fight if I remember, stalemate again. Captain America was generally bested by Bucky, until the storyline decided Bucky can't win as he's the "bad guy". They are both super soldiers, supposed to be in and around the same level. Neither were holding back on the other, mitigating factors generally broke it up. Captain America didn't even know he was Bucky in the first fight

First Winter Soldier fight - Cap suplexes Bucky, nearly breaks his robo arm with the shield and then grabs his face and tosses him end over end. The reasons he didn't implant his shield in Bucky's face is because Bucky's mask fell off and Cap recognised him. Cap had him beat.
Second Fight- Cap choked Bucky unconscious. Again, Cap won.
Cap comprehensive beat Bucky both times.
Both are super soldiers, but the serum that made Bucky is a pale imitation of Cap's.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Saying that, neither are even in the ballpark in terms of Spider-man's strength. They are supposed to be of peak/enhanced human abilities, Spider-man can lift 50 tonnes casually.

Captain America bicep curls a helicopter with 3000lbs of lift, so he is pushing about 10 times as strong as a normal human. Not quite Spider-man strength, but still heavily "pulling his punches" strength.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The actor has said himself he isn't enhanced. Yet there he is throwing the shield around as if he is. We're supposed to believe anyone can pretty much be Captain America if he has "guts"? Does having guts now mean you do superhuman things all of a sudden. It's nonsense.

Because the actors never tell a lie in order to keep a surprise secret?

Mark Hamill · 03-04-2021 9:38am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Enjoyed this week's episode

Was that
One of black panthers sisters from Wakanda at the end ?

She is the one who says to Black Widow "Move or you will be moved" in Civil War.

expectationlost · 03-04-2021 1:37pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

Hard to believe that Steve never cleared Sharon's name. Kind of a dick move.

did he not?

steve_r · 03-04-2021 1:46pm

expectationlost wrote: »

did he not?

Yeah that struck me as strange, maybe she’s on a deep cover assignment?

FunLover18 · 03-04-2021 1:52pm

expectationlost wrote: »

did he not?

Well if she's still on the run then I assume not. Really didn't sit well with me, I can't remember did she say she had been snapped? Like if she was on the run during the five years after the snap while Steve was running a support group while his best friend BW was running SHIELD or the Avengers then that's very odd and it's really ****ty behaviour.

RedRochey · 03-04-2021 3:47pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

Well if she's still on the run then I assume not. Really didn't sit well with me, I can't remember did she say she had been snapped? Like if she was on the run during the five years after the snap while Steve was running a support group while his best friend BW was running SHIELD or the Avengers then that's very odd and it's really ****ty behaviour.

As someone mentioned earlier

chance she could be the power broker, especially that last scene with that other woman and fancy car

beakerjoe · 03-04-2021 5:56pm

pah wrote: »

Calm down lad.

Its fantasy suoer hero stuff. Logic should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Switch your brain off and enjoy

Midnight_EG · 03-04-2021 10:25pm

So do we thinking we might see the Mutant Gene introduced because of Madripoor?

flazio · 04-04-2021 12:21am

Interesting, the sick lady Flag smasher is mourning is named Donya Madani. This isn't the first time "Madani" has been used as a surname in the MCU. There was an FBI agent in The Punisher called Dinah Madani. Doubt any connection will be made.

beakerjoe · 04-04-2021 1:17am

flazio wrote: »

Interesting, the sick lady Flag smasher is mourning is named Donya Madani. This isn't the first time "Madani" has been used as a surname in the MCU. There was an FBI agent in The Punisher called Dinah Madani. Doubt any connection will be made.

I never made that connection.

Id fcuking love that to be a real connection. ****ing loved DD and Punisher.

Any chance Disney would take them over now that the rights reverted back.

The Golden Miller · 04-04-2021 5:34am

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Alright ill bite. Bucky is a character who's only 100% effective when he's the Winter Soldier. This persona is a killing machine with no morals, no cares and no reason. Bucky is not stronger than Cap, as the serum Cap got was the original and Bucky's was a replica of the formula that Zola stole. Bucky only beat Cap because of his tenacity and innermost desire to please his masters.

In TFATWS, he's a shell of his former self, and his 'rules' from his therapist reinforce this. He can't (doesn't want to?) hurt/kill anybody, as he now has his memories of what he's done. He's certainly pulling his punches, even against the baddies.

Now, onto the CW fight. Iron Man has previous for using the Arc Reactor as a phaser beam, it's his most powerful one and we even see him hit Thor with it in their first fight after he gets hit with lightening.

Bucky's arm in Civil War was made of titanium, he didn't receive the Vibranium arm until the end of Black Panther when he became the White Wolf. Tony could easily cut titanium in two. Isiah also recalls that he tore half of Bucky's arm off in the second episode of TFAWS.

Vibranium is not indestructible, its just simply stronger than a lot of other stuff. Thanos sword was made of Uru which cut Caps shield in half, and Adamantium is also stronger again.

If you're going to put up petty arguments, at least have the facts right.

Fair enough. Hard to keep track of it all when you lose interest half way through the "marvel story". More a Spiderman fan.

The titanium arm still doesn't stand up for me. He crushed Iron man's hand with ease at the start of the fight,. When Bucky hit him, then pinned him it should of been game over regardless. Not a 10 second delay reactor beam hitting his arm.

Bucky rocked him with a punch to the chest to knock him into the wall with his titanium arm, then pinned him to rip it out. If that punch didn't end it, then it's simply playing to the gallery. Bucky leveled him straight on, at his weak spot.

I'm sure they did play the reactor nonsense in the Thor fight, made it up as they went along really. Powering Iron man's suit by 400%? Please. Desperate attempt to show he wouldn't be hockeyed around by Thor, to give some credibilty to their main man

The Golden Miller · 04-04-2021 5:39am

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The only normal human who falls from the truck and actually hits something is New Cap. Bucky is a super soldier and Battlestsar lands on Cap's shield. New Cap and Battlestar are both wearing advanced body armor too.

First Winter Soldier fight - Cap suplexes Bucky, nearly breaks his robo arm with the shield and then grabs his face and tosses him end over end. The reasons he didn't implant his shield in Bucky's face is because Bucky's mask fell off and Cap recognised him. Cap had him beat.
Second Fight- Cap choked Bucky unconscious. Again, Cap won.
Cap comprehensive beat Bucky both times.
Both are super soldiers, but the serum that made Bucky is a pale imitation of Cap's.

Captain America bicep curls a helicopter with 3000lbs of lift, so he is pushing about 10 times as strong as a normal human. Not quite Spider-man strength, but still heavily "pulling his punches" strength.

Because the actors never tell a lie in order to keep a surprise secret?

Dunno what you were watching. Bucky roundly slapped him around the place until the story said the hero of the day had to win.

Mark Hamill · 04-04-2021 11:02am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Dunno what you were watching. Bucky roundly slapped him around the place until the story said the hero of the day had to win.

I watched the scenes. Bucky kept up with Rogers, due to his brainwashed violent tenacity and his robo arm, but Rogers invariably found an opening an beat him (even in the second fight, when he is distracted because he is trying to disable the helicarriers and is holding back because he knows it is Bucky and doesn't want to kill him).

FunLover18 · 04-04-2021 11:51am

I think there is always going to be an inconsistency with powers and physics in these kinds of stories depending on the situation and what the narrative requires. Overall though I think Marvel have done quite well unlike say the F&F franchise where Hobbs, a normal human with now super serum, manages to hold back a helicopter with his bare hands.

Also the amount of times Iron Man has crashed, including his first flight in Mark I, the crash landing in the desert should have killed him.and then we wouldn't even have the MCU.

Slydice · 04-04-2021 5:34pm

3: Decent episode. Zemo was done alright. Felt a bit awkward with the nightclub dancing scenes

I liked how there were some nicely done subtle blink-and-you'll-miss-em moments like

the Sharon at the bar scene in Madripoor and Bucky looking down before going for his walk.

So I had to check if something was different.. turns out this episode was written by the writer of the John Wicks, Derek Kolstad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Kolstad

Getting this wierd feeling this show is leading into the creation of

Latveria

Tazzimus · 05-04-2021 5:44pm

Slydice wrote: »

Felt a bit awkward with the nightclub dancing scenes

That was one of the best parts. Big serious head on him busting a move. Daniel Brühl is a gem.

expectationlost · 05-04-2021 6:50pm

I was surprised they didn't escape low-town on some kind of camel like creature.

EoinMcLovin · 08-04-2021 9:53pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

That was one of the best parts. Big serious head on him busting a move. Daniel Brühl is a gem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2021 8:58am

Well, episode 4.....
OK.
That was amazing.

Midnight_EG · 09-04-2021 11:29am

That final scene, that was... Wow... It made me audibly gasp just like when Tony got stabbed by Thanos in IW :eek:

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2021 11:44am

Midnight_EG wrote: »

That final scene, that was... Wow... It made me audibly gasp just like when Tony got stabbed by Thanos in IW :eek:

The entire build up to it - starting with the first big fight and the comments during/after it. They absolutely nailed it.

The "I'm Captain America", the fight, getting his ass kicked. 'Looking good John". "They weren't even Super Soldiers".

The fight itself was superb as well, the Dora looked fearless and fearsome.

Even his conversation with Lemar - he wants to be a good Captain America, he wants to do good, but is frustrated at his inability to compete at that level. You can see the anger and frustration within him. Lemar bigging him up as a virtuous guy with his three medals, him telling Lemar they both knew they didn't earn them with good deeds. Lemar being the one pushing the serum solution, not John really.

And then..... he snapped.

The freeze on him raising the shield.

and then the blood dripping off the shield.

They absolutely nailed it. They nailed Walker from his starting point, to snapping, so damned well.

Midnight_EG · 09-04-2021 11:56am

And the penultimate scene with Karli, just... Whew

sioda · 09-04-2021 12:07pm

Wow that was excellent fantastic episode great build through the entire thing.

Loved the Dora Milaje jurisdiction is wherever the Dora Milaje are.

Zemo just love his character in general. The right amount of creepy and what the hell will he do next.

The stance of Walker on a few occasions was straight out of Steve Rogers captain especially the look up from the shield when he was in the last building

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2021 12:23pm

sioda wrote: »

Wow that was excellent fantastic episode great build through the entire thing.

Loved the Dora Milaje jurisdiction is wherever the Dora Milaje are.

Zemo just love his character in general. The right amount of creepy and what the hell will he do next.

The stance of Walker on a few occasions was straight out of Steve Rogers captain especially the look up from the shield when he was in the last building

i love that with Zemo he is 100% on mission.

Vials of the serum lying around? Take it myself.... no. SMASHY SMASHY.

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2021 12:37pm

I thought Sam was very good in this episode too.

His interactions were better, fight scenes better.

his scenes with Karli were excellent. Coming back to the war vet stuff from Winter Soldier, and his counciling background worked well, and I thought it was a very good conversation. The empathy between him and Karli was very good to see. I like that she isn't black/white good/evil. I like that Sam understands that.

but she did kill the GRC guards though, and her plan was to kill Captain America - so I do wonder why the reaction to killing Lemar caught everyone, including her. Maybe just for the story beat and it is plot-convenient. Her roadblock comments plays into this as well i guess. I wonder are they going to set something up where her choice is to continue down one path and become a Cap Walker (the supremacist as Zemo would say), or down a different one and become Cap Rogers, which again is back to the Sam/Karli convo.

Seriously, excellent episode. More i think and talk about it, the better it becomes. So many little threads and narratives lining up.

pjohnson · 09-04-2021 12:40pm

I just couldnt get over his ressemblance to his father when he was standing there at the end. Its like they just de-aged Kurt to create Wyatt.

joficeduns1 · 09-04-2021 2:34pm

Finally this series comes to life. It's had some moments so far but this was a complete ride start to finish. Excited for the final two episodes.

Agent Coulson · 09-04-2021 3:59pm

That final shot with the blood and on the shield was fracking amazing.

expectationlost · 09-04-2021 4:50pm

peeps on Empire podcast were saying the global situation hasn't been explained. Why is this English girl in Bratislava?

AndyBoBandy · 09-04-2021 4:58pm

EoinMcLovin wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8

Some of the YouTube comments on this are gold....

1 hour Dancing Zemo > Justice League

:D:D:D

event · 09-04-2021 5:00pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

I think there is always going to be an inconsistency with powers and physics in these kinds of stories depending on the situation and what the narrative requires.

You'd almost think they are trying to make a successful franchise of films accessible to everyone and not pandering to Marvel fans.

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2021 5:10pm

expectationlost wrote: »

peeps on Empire podcast were saying the global situation hasn't been explained. Why is this English girl in Bratislava?

when people blipped, coutries fell apart. People didn't care where you came from - there were houses and communities and jobs that needed filling.

when half the world came back the people who had been in jobs and living for 5 years got told to feck off back where they came from, blipper wants his house and job back. That was explained in this (and touched on in previous) episode.

How/Why Karli went from England to Madripor and than to Bratislava, I don't know.

expectationlost · 09-04-2021 5:18pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

when people blipped, coutries fell apart. People didn't care where you came from - there were houses and communities and jobs that needed filling.

when half the world came back the people who had been in jobs and living for 5 years got told to feck off back where they came from, blipper wants his house and job back. That was explained in this (and touched on in previous) episode.

How/Why Karli went from England to Madripor and than to Bratislava, I don't know.

so this Flag Smasher gang have been traveling around but its seems she was raised by Donya Madani, so how long has she been in Bratislava https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Flag_Smasher unless has been travelling around too Donya Madani? https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Karli_Morgenthau

where are her parents does she have the same history as the comics character of the similar name https://www.thewrap.com/falcon-and-winter-soldier-karli-morgenthau/

are her crew all her mates from the international schools seeing they all seem to be american or english?

Midnight_EG · 09-04-2021 5:45pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

when people blipped, coutries fell apart. People didn't care where you came from - there were houses and communities and jobs that needed filling.

when half the world came back the people who had been in jobs and living for 5 years got told to feck off back where they came from, blipper wants his house and job back. That was explained in this (and touched on in previous) episode.

How/Why Karli went from England to Madripor and than to Bratislava, I don't know.

Karli never went to Madripoor, she went to Munich

expectationlost · 09-04-2021 6:06pm

those Wakanda warriors are hella incompetent

The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (***Spoilers***)

Comments

The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (Spoilers)