The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (***Spoilers***)

Mitch Connor

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

As it stands, there is absolutely no way that Sam will be Captain America...he's sidekick material, nothing more..his human interaction story will be heartfelt & interesting and that will keep it interesting.
But Bucky is where redemption and the true story lie imo

I don't think Captain America is going to have his own films going foward (Be it Sam or Bucky). I reckon Captain America will be similar to Hawkeye (or indeed Falcon and Winter Soldier), a supporting member in someones movie, or in an ensemble - and I think there needs to be a 'normal' human in mix of these movies to provide the counter point to the super heros, and Sam can fulfil that role.

In terms of Buckys redemption.... is it the true story? Was that not covered in Civil War and then Infinity War/Endgame? His full redemption in atoning for his past deeds will obviously be covered in this show, but from a movie perspective do peoeple need more than they got in the movies? He was a bad guy in Winter Soldier, he was framed and defended by Team Cap in Civil War and fought alongside the Avengers in Endgame and Infinity War. I think the Bucky stuff in this show will be interesting but I didn't assume it would be part of the show, nor did I think it was needed going in.

Also, I don't think Bucky as Cap is as interesting a story point as Sam as Cap is. I prefer Sebastion Stan as an actor, I wouldn't be a fan of Anthony Mackie and I have always found Falcon a bit of a dumb hero (his opening action scene in this being the best of him in action, imo) so this isn't me saying Sam as Cap because I particularly want that. I think it should be Sam because that is what they set in Endgame, and the narrative of Sam seeing the Symbol of Cap America being misused or tarnished, and following through to believe in himself as worthy of the shield - because the morality of the man behind the shield is more important than their physical strength - is more interesting than 'Bucky was his best mate and is really strong'. Also, in terms of bad guy assassin turned good guy and trying to atone for their past... we have already had Black Widow. Do we need the male version of it too?

Mitch Connor

Sleepy wrote: »

Unless this series has Sam getting the super soldier serum somehow, I just don't see how his Captain America could last more than a few minutes in a fight? Even with the abilities, Steve Rogers was frequently very reliant on his ability to heal quickly.

Same way Hawkeye and Black Widow fought alongside the Avengers. In the same way Falcon himself fought alongside the Avengers. And there are comic book runs with non-super-soldier Sam as Captain America (with the Falcon suit).

Indeed they can't just give him the shield in exchange for the falcon suit - but they can (and have in the comics) given him the shield and the symbol of Captain America along side his suit.

The Inbetween is mine

Not a chance of Captain America becoming a bit part player.. Hawkeye and Black Widow were always completely human.
The very essence of Captain America is his heart and will to play by the rules and not hurt people.
Sam's first act is to ride roughshod over his sister & slap aside her own wishes about the boat for his own pride.
Can't see any way of him being Cap going forward

Foxtrol

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Not a chance of Captain America becoming a bit part player.. Hawkeye and Black Widow were always completely human.
The very essence of Captain America is his heart and will to play by the rules and not hurt people.
Sam's first act is to ride roughshod over his sister & slap aside her own wishes about the boat for his own pride.
Can't see any way of him being Cap going forward

Captain America repeatedly didn't play by the rules, he played by his morality. He had no problem 'cheating' to get into the army, nor breaking the Sokovia Accords. Believing he was 'right' arguably caused the snap to occur - breaking up the Avengers.

Steve Rogers' story has been told, just like Tony Stark's has. Marvel would be stupid to try to force feed the audience a new Captain America or Iron Man by putting them center stage when there are so many other characters that haven't had air time - even before getting into Mutants, Fantastic 4, Blade etc. The new versions can be part of the MCU but they aren't going to be the center of it.

Mitch Connor

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Not a chance of Captain America becoming a bit part player.. Hawkeye and Black Widow were always completely human.
The very essence of Captain America is his heart and will to play by the rules and not hurt people.

Steve Rogers was Captain America though. no version of Captain America going forward is the real deal, really. I just don't see how we have a non-Rogers standalone Captain America movie. If we were going to, I don't think we would have Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I don't think we are going to get a standalone Scarlet Witch or Loki movie either, basing it on the same logic.

I dont see either Sebastian Stan or Anthony Mackie headlining a standalone Cap America movie. Cap America as a headliner ended with Rogers. Unless Evans comes back as Old Cap, we won't get a standalone movie, imo.

as for saying heart is the essence of Captain America. Yep. It is. And Sam has that. Sam is a "good man" as Cap said to him, and the Doc said to Cap. Your interpretation of his interaction with his sister is just that, your interpretation. There are clearly wounds there to be healed (beyond any financial issues with the boat) but you shouldn't also discount Sam putting himself on the line for Cap and BW in Winter Soldier, against Hydra and a Super Soldier, because it was the right thing to do. Putting himself against Iron Man, War Machine, Black Panther, Vision in Civil War because it was (in his opinion) the right thing to do.

Sleepy

FunLover18 wrote: »

Yeh I really don't get how people think Sam somehow won't end up being Cap. It would just look incredibly bad if they turned around and gave it to another white guy (Bucky) after teeing up a black Cap.

Also in terms of Sam's lack of powers, it does niggle at the back of my mind but let's not forget that Hawkeye and Black Widow didn't have super powers either.

I agree that this series arc will be about Sam "earning" the mantle.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Same way Hawkeye and Black Widow fought alongside the Avengers. In the same way Falcon himself fought alongside the Avengers. And there are comic book runs with non-super-soldier Sam as Captain America (with the Falcon suit).

Indeed they can't just give him the shield in exchange for the falcon suit - but they can (and have in the comics) given him the shield and the symbol of Captain America along side his suit.

I've read a graphic novel with Sam as Capt America, and tbh, it was shit. Steve Rogers is Captain America, Sam embodies many of the same qualities that helped Steve be good at it but he's just a less interesting character.

Hawkeye and Black Widow both being human makes them weak links in the team and require a bit of a suspension of disbelief though to be fair, the movies have even poked fun at how silly it is themselves: " the city is flying, we're fighting an army of robots, and I have a bow and arrow. None of this makes sense"

Both lead characters in this series have donned the mantle of Captain America at various points in the comics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_Barnes#The_new_Captain_America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_(comics)#Becoming_Captain_America

pah

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I never said it was random. I said it was lazy and cliched, which it is. Maybe you were half reading my comment?

Sure you did. You said

"Pretty lazy and cliched that the kindly old geezer he befriends just happens to be the father of a chap he murdered."

Mitch Connor

Sleepy wrote: »

I agree that this series arc will be about Sam "earning" the mantle.


I've read a graphic novel with Sam as Capt America, and tbh, it was shit. Steve Rogers is Captain America, Sam embodies many of the same qualities that helped Steve be good at it but he's just a less interesting character.

Hawkeye and Black Widow both being human makes them weak links in the team and require a bit of a suspension of disbelief though to be fair, the movies have even poked fun at how silly it is themselves: " the city is flying, we're fighting an army of robots, and I have a bow and arrow. None of this makes sense"

Both lead characters in this series have donned the mantle of Captain America at various points in the comics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_Barnes#The_new_Captain_America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_(comics)#Becoming_Captain_America

as you say, Steve Rogers IS Captain America, which is why I don't think we will get a standalone Sam/Bucky Captain America movie.

Have you read the comics with Bucky as Cap America? I know both have been Cap, but i've read neither. Would be interested to know if Bucky is a more interesting Cap.

I wanted Bucky to take the role, as I prefer him to Falcon. I just think with giving Sam the shield in Endgame and how he gives it up (and sees it given away) in the first episode of this, the natural story arc is him earning the shield, in his own eyes. Even as he spoke about Steve BEING captain america, a symbol. That leads into a Sam story arc, not a Bucky one. IMO.

flazio

It's common enough in other media for Marvel super hero aliases to be shared or passed on. Miles Morales is as much Spider-man as Peter Parker, the whole Black Panther mantra is passed from father to son, Hank Pym and his wife were Ant Man and The Wasp before Scott Lang and Hope, there's more than one Hulk more than one Iron___ etc.

The Inbetween is mine

flazio wrote: »

It's common enough in other media for Marvel super hero aliases to be shared or passed on. Miles Morales is as much Spider-man as Peter Parker, the whole Black Panther mantra is passed from father to son, Hank Pym and his wife were Ant Man and The Wasp before Scott Lang and Hope, there's more than one Hulk more than one Iron___ etc.

Nobody is arguing those points...of course the mantle will be passed on....to whom is the issue.
My problem with this is, when supers passed their powers on...it was always to a super...or the gift embued powers to the individual.
I can't remember a super passing the mantle to someone else...and no power being part of the deal.

This could go the way of wandavision in here... people reading online fanzines and then passing it on here, quite a few silly guesses last time around left people looks looking to Easter for some new eggs.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems a stretch that a minor character (and a limited actor let's be truthful) would be handed the mantle of Captain America.
If I'm proved wrong, I'll come back and hold my hands up, no issues at all.

Foxtrol

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Nobody is arguing those points...of course the mantle will be passed on....to whom is the issue.
My problem with this is, when supers passed their powers on...it was always to a super...or the gift embued powers to the individual.
I can't remember a super passing the mantle to someone else...and no power being part of the deal.

This could go the way of wandavision in here... people reading online fanzines and then passing it on here, quite a few silly guesses last time around left people looks looking to Easter for some new eggs.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems a stretch that a minor character (and a limited actor let's be truthful) would be handed the mantle of Captain America.
If I'm proved wrong, I'll come back and hold my hands up, no issues at all.

I think your argument is based on the presumption that Captain America will continue to be a central character - I see no evidence that this is the direction the MCU is going. It seems like they are going heavily towards mystical and space for Phase 4 and likely Mutants for Phase 5, all of which would make peak Steve Rogers seem underpowered.

The Inbetween is mine

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think your argument is based on the presumption that Captain America will continue to be a central character - I see no evidence that this is the direction the MCU is going. It seems like they are going heavily towards mystical and space for Phase 4 and likely Mutants for Phase 5, all of which would make peak Steve Rogers seem underpowered.

Black Widow movie is released July 5th
Shang Chi
Hawkeye
These are all current in the MCU and non.powered, so I don't think you're correct.

We've not been given any indication as to whether Cap will be to the fore, or a background character...so we'll leave that to fanzine land as it's a totally circular argument

Insect Overlord

I've never read the comics or the graphic novels so I can't add anything extra to the debate, but I just wanted to say it's fascinating seeing the different ideas people have been suggesting here. Some class discussion here over the last page or so. It's great to have this kind of enthusiastic analysis in between shows.

Sleepy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

as you say, Steve Rogers IS Captain America, which is why I don't think we will get a standalone Sam/Bucky Captain America movie.

Have you read the comics with Bucky as Cap America? I know both have been Cap, but i've read neither. Would be interested to know if Bucky is a more interesting Cap.

I wanted Bucky to take the role, as I prefer him to Falcon. I just think with giving Sam the shield in Endgame and how he gives it up (and sees it given away) in the first episode of this, the natural story arc is him earning the shield, in his own eyes. Even as he spoke about Steve BEING captain america, a symbol. That leads into a Sam story arc, not a Bucky one. IMO.

No, I've not read any of the comics where Bucky takes the role and I'm not particularly interested to either tbh.

I think you're right - any passing of the mantle of "Captain America" to either character isn't going to change their status in the MCU movies: they'll both remain B listers who feature in other heroes films (and the Avengers team-ups) but won't be getting standalones.

Honestly, I think we're heading towards a slow down in the popularity of the MCU. With Cap, Iron Man and Black Widow killed off/aged out and the Hulk transformed into the frankly boring Professor Hulk we're only left with Spiderman and Thor of the big name heroes. I know Ironman wasn't exactly the most widely known character when the MCU started but I just can't see the rest (Ant Man, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Captain Marvel, Dr Strange, Hawkeye, Wanda etc.) holding the broader public interest in the same way. The Guardians work best in their own series IMO and when you add all of this to the fact we've now had over a decade of these films dominating the box office it just feels like it's probably time for the next big thing... maybe that'll be the Mutants but that ground has been fairly thoroughly farmed by Fox with a dozen or so movies already.... it would certainly be interesting to see a new big IP imo.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

No, I've not read any of the comics where Bucky takes the role and I'm not particularly interested to either tbh.

I think you're right - any passing of the mantle of "Captain America" to either character isn't going to change their status in the MCU movies: they'll both remain B listers who feature in other heroes films (and the Avengers team-ups) but won't be getting standalones.

Honestly, I think we're heading towards a slow down in the popularity of the MCU. With Cap, Iron Man and Black Widow killed off/aged out and the Hulk transformed into the frankly boring Professor Hulk we're only left with Spiderman and Thor of the big name heroes. I know Ironman wasn't exactly the most widely known character when the MCU started but I just can't see the rest (Ant Man, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Captain Marvel, Dr Strange, Hawkeye, Wanda etc.) holding the broader public interest in the same way. The Guardians work best in their own series IMO and when you add all of this to the fact we've now had over a decade of these films dominating the box office it just feels like it's probably time for the next big thing... maybe that'll be the Mutants but that ground has been fairly thoroughly farmed by Fox with a dozen or so movies already.... it would certainly be interesting to see a new big IP imo.

I see your point, but one word answer.

REBOOT!

Foxtrol

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Black Widow movie is released July 5th
Shang Chi
Hawkeye
These are all current in the MCU and non.powered, so I don't think you're correct.

We've not been given any indication as to whether Cap will be to the fore, or a background character...so we'll leave that to fanzine land as it's a totally circular argument

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make with your examples - none are what I'd deem as being 'to the fore':

Black Widow - First movie after being a background character in the MCU for a decade. Will likely act as her swan song
Shang Chi - Probably the least anticipated movie in MCU history, no evidence he'll be more than a background character
Hawkeye - A TV show for a background character, which is the same level as Falcon and Winter Soldier

Half the point of these threads is to speculate so if you don't want to then you're in the wrong place.

Lithium93_

The Hawkeye show is also going to be a passing of the mantle moment.

The Inbetween is mine

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make with your examples - none are what I'd deem as being 'to the fore':

Black Widow - First movie after being a background character in the MCU for a decade. Will likely act as her swan song
Shang Chi - Probably the least anticipated movie in MCU history, no evidence he'll be more than a background character
Hawkeye - A TV show for a background character, which is the same level as Falcon and Winter Soldier

Half the point of these threads is to speculate so if you don't want to then you're in the wrong place.

I gave you 3 examples of non powered individuals who are to the fore in the MCU this coming year....and you say they don't count?.....okay then

They are all pointers to the fact that the MCU isn't going completely over to magic & mystical heroes, not for some time anyway...
I do like Shang Chi I must admit, and that genre has made a comeback recently, with the TV series warrior and the latest batman animated movie going down that road... Shang Chi could be the perfect chance for the new female Hawkeye to come onboard, seems the perfect vehicle to do so.
Im waiting to see what happens with the Fantastic 4....I think previous incarnations have been poorly cast, badly written and barring the appearance of the silver surfer... totally forgettable...
John Watts has a big task ahead I think over the next year or 2 to make a movie that people will flock to...the choice of actor for Reed Richards will be off-putting for quite a lot of people of it is John Krasinski...just my thoughts on it

The Golden Miller

flazio wrote: »

It's common enough in other media for Marvel super hero aliases to be shared or passed on. Miles Morales is as much Spider-man as Peter Parker, the whole Black Panther mantra is passed from father to son, Hank Pym and his wife were Ant Man and The Wasp before Scott Lang and Hope, there's more than one Hulk more than one Iron___ etc.

Miles Morales is in no way as much Spider-man as Peter Parker, nor ever will be no matter how much Marvel try and shoe-horn that in to be the case

The Golden Miller

A bit of discussion here about the mantle of Captain America. I'd assume Bucky will take the mantle at some point. He's the natural fit, best mate and also a super soldier, from a previous era. The Sam stuff is nonsense really, he's just a human no where near the lever required to be Captain America. Infact, should of been pulverized a long time ago.

pjohnson

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Miles Morales is in no way as much Spider-man as Peter Parker, nor ever will be no matter how much Marvel try and shoe-horn that in to be the case

Most have accepted Miles without issue by now. Probably one of their best new characters (along with Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel).

The Golden Miller

pjohnson wrote: »

Most have accepted Miles without issue by now. Probably one of their best new characters (along with Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel).

Anytime they touted replacing Parker with him outright, there was backlash, but Marvel continued to shoe-horn him in now as a sort of side character simply because he's black. They want to extend their biggest character to include that demograph, no other reason

Most people simply ignore his existence. There's no indication that's he's in anyway really liked, nor is he in anyway the embodiment of Spiderman, ala Parker, as had been suggested

pjohnson

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Anytime they touted replacing Parker with him outright, there was backlash, but Marvel continued to shoe-horn him in now as a sort of side character simply because he's black. They want to extend their biggest character to include that demograph, no other reason

Most people simply ignore his existence. There's no indication that's he's in anyway really liked, nor is he in anyway the embodiment of Spiderman, ala Parker, as had been suggested

Well yeah that was bloomin hilarious because those people couldn't comprehend the idea of two Spidermen and got in a tiz over nothing. There wasn't a outright replacement of Peter ever on the cards despite the pearl clutching. No more than the 2017 teenage/diverse versions of Thor/Hulk/Ms. Marvel/Captain America/Falcon/Iron Man were all going to replace the classic versions because woke/diversity. And now about 4 years later all the OG characters that were apparently being "killed by wokeness" are all back under their titles again


That was a great time to follow comics.

flazio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Most people simply ignore his existence. There's no indication that's he's in anyway really liked, nor is he in anyway the embodiment of Spiderman, ala Parker, as had been suggested

Into the Spider Verse is a highly acclaimed, academy award winning motion picture with a sequel in the works. The Miles Morales video game is rating around 4.6/5 among gamers and critics with the main complaint being it's too short a game for the price. Nothing about the characters in the game. That doesn't look like "most" people ignoring him to me.

pixelburp

Yeah, Morales is easily Marvel's best and most popular addition in years, easily proven by the success of his appearance in spin off media. Now, if we were talking more recent additions like Riri Williams, I don't get the impression she's well liked, another attempt to channel some younger characters like Morales, Khan or Squirrel Girl.

The Golden Miller

flazio wrote: »

Into the Spider Verse is a highly acclaimed, academy award winning motion picture with a sequel in the works. The Miles Morales video game is rating around 4.6/5 among gamers and critics with the main complaint being it's too short a game for the price. Nothing about the characters in the game. That doesn't look like "most" people ignoring him to me.

Just because a game plays well doesn't mean a character is liked. I have the game despite not liking the character, other Spiderman related stuff in it. As for the movie, the character couldn't stand on its own, it had as much Parker in it as himself

I'm sure he is popular though, I'd say black people lap it up

Midnight_EG

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Just because a game plays well doesn't mean a character is liked. I have the game despite not looking the character, other Spiderman related stuff in it. As for the movie, the character couldn't stand on its own, it had as much Parker in it as himself

You do realise that in the movie, Miles is a kid who only figured out his powers and not the fleshed out character that he is in the comic books? Just because you don't like a character, doesn't mean he's not accepted by many such as the demographic he was aimed at, to be Spiderman.

EDIT: I saw your edit after I posted, now I understand why you don't like Miles Morales. That's a sh1tty opinion pal.

FunLover18

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Just because a game plays well doesn't mean a character is liked. I have the game despite not liking the character, other Spiderman related stuff in it. As for the movie, the character couldn't stand on its own, it had as much Parker in it as himself

I'm sure he is popular though, I'd say black people lap it up

So you completely missed the point of the movie.

The Inbetween is mine

Miles is a great character with plenty of scope to expand,. Into the Spiderverse was fantastic I thought... but the character definitely caused some consternation when he first appeared 10 years ago...
a lot of people said he was nothing but a nod to an ethnic minority..and he clearly isn't...the stories have been fantastic I think

pjohnson

Midnight_EG wrote: »

EDIT: I saw your edit after I posted, now I understand why you don't like Miles Morales. That's a sh1tty opinion pal.

That shíte was rife back in 2017 when the youngsters were introduced en masse. Thought people woulda out grown that given how the apocalyptic scenarios of white extinction they created never happened but clearly not.

pixelburp

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt4633694/

$375 million from a $90 million budget is a success, regardless of subject. Good enough for a sequel. And to suggest it wasn't Morales' film is a ludicrous read, notwithstanding the racial stereotyping.

So swing this discussion back to the show please, the taste in my mouth is a little gross.

steve_r

so, back to the, eh show...

Watched this and was quite underwhelmed. I’ve probably had my fill of the MCU so maybe I’m being too negative, but the attempt to build social issues from the events of the “snap”, like the inability to secure finance, anarchist groups rising felt really hollow to me.

There’s plenty of real-world issues they could use, instead of bending over backwards to tie back into the MCU continuity. Marvel do this kind of stuff too often, where there are references/nods to other films/shows to push people to watch everything and it just grates on me.

There’s a great story arc in the comics where Cap dies and Bucky has to wrestle with the idea of taking up the mantle, and what a world without Captain America looks like.

I do think that it would be possible to tell an equally interesting story about Sam taking up the Shield but the first episode was a really poor start. A lot of moping around, exposition, harking back to other stories rather than telling something new.

I would like to see this done well, and I do think there is the potential for a good story there.

However I get the sense that this is “Safe” marvel, and as one poster already mentioned if you miss this series it won’t really matter. Which is a pity, because WandaVision showed that if you are willing to take a few risks, you can tell a really engaging story.

Agent Coulson

Another member of the Young Avengers being introduced this week.

RobbingBandit

Credits last nearly 5 minutes in a 49 minute screen time that is a lot

Good episode uncomfortable context

I love Bucky as a character he is kickass

Mitch Connor

Enjoyed the episode.

Will be interesting to see if Isiah becomes a bigger player in the season, possibly as a kicker for Sam

Very interesting that Walking is not a dick, at all, or at least in general terms he does seem a good guy, a good soldier. There is some of his manners that grate a small bit, which I think is intentional - but they aren't showing that he is a bad guy that Sam/Bucky will need to defeat. I expect that will change over the course of the next couple of episodes.

Midnight_EG

... Meh? Didn't enjoy that much

Ridley

Would've been fun if the Marvel Studios logo had ended with Walker pasted over Rogers.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Another member of the Young Avengers being introduced this week.

Yeah, they're assembling quite nicely - next up:

Kid Loki

?

Brief_Lives

that was a bit crap... 2 avengers getting their ass kicked....

Mitch Connor

Brief_Lives wrote: »

that was a bit crap... 2 avengers getting their ass kicked....

By 8 super soldiers. Just like bucky couldn't take the super soldiers on by himself in civil war. Their strength would be similar to Bucky, and there was 8 of them.

Bucky was more than a match for Captain America on his own in Winter Soldier. In Civil War when escaping he powered through Tony, Black Widow, Black Panther. So 8 Super Soldiers, comparible to Bucky, should absolutely be causing Bucky and Falcon a problem, even with the other two guys.

Brief_Lives

it's not just that... we have 8 more super soldiers....

CastorTroy

Walker showing signs of turning bad - he didn't shave

PTH2009

Enjoyed the episode but finding it hard to see a character as big as Captain America in the tv format

I like the grittiness of the show

Next week will be interesting with an old MCU badie coming into it

Homelander

Thought that was fairly weak. Felt like a typical cheesy CW show with a better budget. I enjoyed Wandavision a lot, but this really isn't hanging together for me, and the script/acting is surprisingly subpar.

Wandavision felt like a true extension of the MCU to me, but this feels very low to mid-grade TV so far.

Mr.Nice Guy

I liked it better than last week's episode but the chemistry between the two leads really isn't there. Marvel have a formula to these things, and so feel they have to insert their comedic moments, but it doesn't really suit these characters; and that comes across.

The character of John Walker does intrigue me. Don't know about anyone else but I think the actor bears a striking resemblance to Harry Kane.

I'm finding the redhead, Karli, tough to buy as a threat though.

Is there any chance that counsellor might get killed off? Most annoying character ever. It would also mean no more of those hopelessly unfunny sessions.

In my opinion the first episode was alright but this was poor.

Cotts72

I think it's a slow burner and needs to be

It allows them to setup John walker potentially cracking and to show the whole Sam struggle with being a black captain America.

I like the chemistry between Sam and bucky so far

Slydice

2: Good development in that one. Hope the show isn't going to

ruin Zemo. The small amount of setup looks solid so hopefully not.

Wouldn't mind seeing more about

Isaiah

, or even a flashback episode to him and Winter Soldier.

Kirby

Brief_Lives wrote: »

it's not just that... we have 8 more super soldiers....

Seven. :P

Mitch Connor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there any chance that counsellor might get killed off? Most annoying character ever. It would also mean no more of those hopelessly unfunny sessions.

In my opinion the first episode was alright but this was poor.

I reckon she's gonna be one of the bad guys.

They totally dropped the ball with that episode. I'm so angry I'm not going go spoiler so be warned.




We NEVER found out if Sam's sister got her mortgage to save the family boat!