The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (Spoilers)

Gbear · 13-04-2021 1:44pm

I'm getting the ultimate feeling (notwithstanding the last few episodes), that neither this nor Wandavsion merited the number of episodes, or benefitted from the extended format.

Wandvision seemed to have some interesting ideas but petered out into a bland superhero punch thingy, and left much of what seemed intriguing about it as red herrings. Falcon... is superhero-spy thriller 101, needlessly split into more bits than normal.

I kinda just don't see the point.

They're fine, but whatever hope I had that the episodic format might be an interesting new direction for the MCU doesn't seem to have been born out.

Films have a strong link to their income, which is measured in box office receipts, but something like this is a bit more indirect. It makes less sense for them to be so bland and straightforward. Will this calibre of film make people want to subscribe to Disney+ in the long term? A film is an event, and you get the spectacle of a theatre experience, and it's something to do of a Tuesday evening, or whatever. A monthly subscription to watch stuff that's just grand doesn't seem like a winner to me.

tbahh · 13-04-2021 1:45pm

flazio wrote: »

The Carli actor, Erin Kellyman, is only 22 and has a fairly limited acting CV
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm7210986/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0
Biggest role was in the Star Wars flop "Solo"
Born to a Jamaican father and an Irish mother and raised in London. She's one of ours lads.

She'll be joining Fair City soon. :pac:

Exactly, she'll no doubt improve the more roles she gets. Come to think of it, Carli is similar to Bucky as a plot device character. It wouldn't surprise me if she's killed off in the next or last episode by John Walker or Power Broker.

FileNotFound · 13-04-2021 1:57pm

Gbear wrote: »

I'm getting the ultimate feeling (notwithstanding the last few episodes), that neither this nor Wandavsion merited the number of episodes, or benefitted from the extended format.

Wandvision seemed to have some interesting ideas but petered out into a bland superhero punch thingy, and left much of what seemed intriguing about it as red herrings. Falcon... is superhero-spy thriller 101, needlessly split into more bits than normal.

I kinda just don't see the point.

They're fine, but whatever hope I had that the episodic format might be an interesting new direction for the MCU doesn't seem to have been born out.

Films have a strong link to their income, which is measured in box office receipts, but something like this is a bit more indirect. It makes less sense for them to be so bland and straightforward. Will this calibre of film make people want to subscribe to Disney+ in the long term? A film is an event, and you get the spectacle of a theatre experience, and it's something to do of a Tuesday evening, or whatever. A monthly subscription to watch stuff that's just grand doesn't seem like a winner to me.

You don't see the point in tv shows? Or you think these ones have been disappointing?

These are handy production to add new content and use some cheaper to cast secondary characters, if one shows extra promise then they may progress it further. Or maybe a number of standalone series will start to converge.

I mean the original Captain America to me was pretty poor - but it built the character that became important to the main series.

I see these as a filler or a base and either is fine - Maybe dragged out a bit to be fair but I cannot help enjoying having something new to watch each week during lockdown - even if all i do is complain about it.

tbahh · 13-04-2021 2:02pm

Gbear wrote: »

I'm getting the ultimate feeling (notwithstanding the last few episodes), that neither this nor Wandavsion merited the number of episodes, or benefitted from the extended format.

Wandvision seemed to have some interesting ideas but petered out into a bland superhero punch thingy, and left much of what seemed intriguing about it as red herrings. Falcon... is superhero-spy thriller 101, needlessly split into more bits than normal.

I kinda just don't see the point.

They're fine, but whatever hope I had that the episodic format might be an interesting new direction for the MCU doesn't seem to have been born out.

Films have a strong link to their income, which is measured in box office receipts, but something like this is a bit more indirect. It makes less sense for them to be so bland and straightforward. Will this calibre of film make people want to subscribe to Disney+ in the long term? A film is an event, and you get the spectacle of a theatre experience, and it's something to do of a Tuesday evening, or whatever. A monthly subscription to watch stuff that's just grand doesn't seem like a winner to me.

Wanda and Vision are more interesting characters. It took more chances, and while not everything was delivered smoothly, there was a bit of hype around the series. Even the thread on here was quite animated.

F&WS is just a typical run-of-the-mill superhero adaptation. Even the name sounds too long - Bucky and Falcon surely would have sufficed. Wandavision primarily took place in the same location for like 90% of the time. I think F&WS must have passed 10 by now and the constant displacement of characters grows weary. Looks like they are

back in the US

for next week's episode.

It's also smart of Disney to release it weekly. Loki is up next an its slot will be taken over with different MCU universe shows for as long as Disney+ lasts.

Gbear · 13-04-2021 3:43pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

You don't see the point in tv shows? Or you think these ones have been disappointing?

These are handy production to add new content and use some cheaper to cast secondary characters, if one shows extra promise then they may progress it further. Or maybe a number of standalone series will start to converge.

I don't see the point in using an episodic format to tell these stories.

Episodic storytelling gives you options for character development, week to week drama, b-plots and developing minor characters (we get a little of that with Darcy and Sharon Carter). On a narrative level, it gives you perhaps more scope to tackle more complex or nuanced ideas.

Even on a hype level, there's the sort of water cooler chat element.

I don't think they've done any of that well enough so far to be worth stringing viewers along. The water cooler chat, or the online version we're mostly limited too, has mostly seemed to be about blue-balling viewers in Wandavision, or non-existent for this, because there's not really much mystery.

The early episodes of Wandavision were probably hurt by being strung out across a period of weeks. The show would probably hold together better and feel like less of a let down if it was in 3-5 episodes.

You could probably trim Falcon... into a single film, add some extra exploding heli-carrier stuff like in The Winter Soldier, and you'd have a decent evening's entertainment and it'd make like a billion dollars in non-covid cinemas.

FileNotFound wrote: »

I mean the original Captain America to me was pretty poor - but it built the character that became important to the main series.

I see these as a filler or a base and either is fine - Maybe dragged out a bit to be fair but I cannot help enjoying having something new to watch each week during lockdown - even if all i do is complain about it.

The cinema experience no doubt papers over some cracks with a lot of the Marvel films, but they do have that spectacle at least. Shorn of that, they can be, with some exceptions, second rate sci-fi/fantasy thrillers. If this show doesn't even have that, and all it has is mere novelty, that's damning with faint praise if I've ever heard it.

Foxtrol · 13-04-2021 5:45pm

Gbear wrote: »

I'm getting the ultimate feeling (notwithstanding the last few episodes), that neither this nor Wandavsion merited the number of episodes, or benefitted from the extended format.

Wandvision seemed to have some interesting ideas but petered out into a bland superhero punch thingy, and left much of what seemed intriguing about it as red herrings. Falcon... is superhero-spy thriller 101, needlessly split into more bits than normal.

I kinda just don't see the point.

They're fine, but whatever hope I had that the episodic format might be an interesting new direction for the MCU doesn't seem to have been born out.

Films have a strong link to their income, which is measured in box office receipts, but something like this is a bit more indirect. It makes less sense for them to be so bland and straightforward. Will this calibre of film make people want to subscribe to Disney+ in the long term? A film is an event, and you get the spectacle of a theatre experience, and it's something to do of a Tuesday evening, or whatever. A monthly subscription to watch stuff that's just grand doesn't seem like a winner to me.

I wouldn't say it is accurate to claim it cant be measured as directly - with analytics Disney can see exactly what shows are attracting and keeping subscribers to Disney+, for example WandaVision was tracked as the highest streamed show while it was on. Even pre COVID, Disney had to balance the number of MCU films it releases in a given year and wanted to find a way to tell stories and make money from more of their lesser known characters.

I've said it repeatedly on these threads but I just don't get the argument that these shows could be films - is this supposed to be a negative? That same argument can be made for nearly every single mini-series I've ever seen, yet somehow I've only ever seen it be made for these MCU series. I'd argue that thanks to the mini-series format the character development of the two shows so far, WandaVision especially, has helped connect viewers to these 'B-Team' at best characters far greater than previously, as well as introduce new characters, provide background, and move along the overall MCU world.

PTH2009 · 14-04-2021 12:33am

stupid question but will we find out about what/where Steve Rogers is now ?

He aged but didn't die ?

flazio · 14-04-2021 5:56am

It's not dumb, but let's just say he's "enjoying retirement".

Penn · 14-04-2021 8:15am

PTH2009 wrote: »

stupid question but will we find out about what/where Steve Rogers is now ?

He aged but didn't die ?

I'd say it's more than likely he died soon after. TFATWS is set several months after the events of Endgame. I'd say when Steve came back at that point, it was because he knew he didn't have long left.

Brief_Lives · 14-04-2021 9:30am

he came back at that time because that was the same point in time he went all over, fixing the infinity stones from the time heist....

Penn · 14-04-2021 9:46am

Brief_Lives wrote: »

he came back at that time because that was the same point in time he went all over, fixing the infinity stones from the time heist....

Agreed, but he could have came back at that time at any point or at any age. Even if that point in time was 2023, he could have lived in the alternative timeline he stayed in with Peggy until 2025 and still returned to that point in time to give the shield to Sam.

So he could have waited until he knew he was nearing his death in the alternate timeline (whether it be say 1995, or 2035 depending on the effects of the super soldier serum keeping him alive longer), and still returned to that point in 2023 of the main timeline.

AndyBoBandy · 14-04-2021 9:49am

Brief_Lives wrote: »

he came back at that time because that was the same point in time he went all over, fixing the infinity stones from the time heist....

I took it that he travelled around time fixing everything with the stones etc..., and then his last time travel was back to be with Carter in the 40's, and then he simply grew old, and walked/drove to the point in time where he 'returns' as old... and didn't actually time jump back to that point... either that, or he did indeed time travel back to that point after Carter died in the Winter Soldier timeline.

Either way, I wouldn't assume him to be dead, he's a super soldier. probably just retired off somewhere....

would LOVE a cameo before the show wraps up.....

AndyBoBandy · 14-04-2021 9:53am

Also, given there is now an alternate Steve Rodgers living his full life with Peggy, and growing old.... there is a possibility he could show up somewhere in Loki, given all the time skipping high jinks that show is going to serve up..

Penn · 14-04-2021 9:59am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I took it that he travelled around time fixing everything with the stones etc..., and then his last time travel was back to be with Carter in the 40's, and then he simply grew old, and walked/drove to the point in time where he 'returns' as old... and didn't actually time jump back to that point... either that, or he did indeed time travel back to that point after Carter died in the Winter Soldier timeline.

Either way, I wouldn't assume him to be dead, he's a super soldier. probably just retired off somewhere....

would LOVE a cameo before the show wraps up.....

The way they set up the time travel stuff is that if you go back and change something, it creates a new separate timeline. That's why they had to return the stones back to the exact time they took them from, to prevent a new timeline being created.

But by Steve staying in the past with Peggy, that created a new timeline that he stayed in. Which means he would have needed to use the time travel device to return back to the main timeline that he originally left from.

Midnight_EG · 14-04-2021 10:39am

Steve is on a Moon base, didn't you listen to Sam and Torres conversation in Ep.1 :pac:

AlmightyCushion · 14-04-2021 11:08am

I think old Steve looks a little like Joe Biden. I reckon he is living in our timeline and changed his name. From Captain America to Commander in Chief. Not bad, Steve.

RedRochey · 14-04-2021 3:34pm

Saw a youtube breakdown of how the whole show seems to have been rewritten because it had a plot based on a virus, obviously with covid they thought it would be better to change it, there's some scenes were you don't see the person who is speaking so could've been added post production and especially the bit about that woman dying, shes a big actor so strange that that's all she did in the show

Mitch Connor · 14-04-2021 3:36pm

RedRochey wrote: »

Saw a youtube breakdown of how the whole show seems to have been rewritten because it had a plot based on a virus, obviously with covid they thought it would be better to change it, there's some scenes were you don't see the person who is speaking so could've been added post production and especially the bit about that woman dying, shes a big actor so strange that that's all she did in the show

which would explain them stealing the medicine. Which at the moment is just.... medicine, but had it been virus related it would have been the vaccine or cure.

Interesting.

Is it just speculation or is there something concrete saying it was reworked?

RedRochey · 14-04-2021 3:38pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

which would explain them stealing the medicine. Which at the moment is just.... medicine, but had it been virus related it would have been the vaccine or cure.

Interesting.

Is it just speculation or is there something concrete saying it was reworked?

Think they mentioned in an article about how they had to rewrite the script because of covid, could've just been location issues or something like that

Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/VhKIAHABGac

Lithium93_ · 14-04-2021 9:45pm

Random train of thought, what if Sharon isn't the Power Broker, but a misdirect.

Could be an interesting way to introduce

Wilson Fisk/Kingpin

into the MCU continuity.

santana75 · 14-04-2021 10:17pm

Sebastian stan is looking more and more like Noel Gallagher every week

Gbear · 15-04-2021 11:23am

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Random train of thought, what if Sharon isn't the Power Broker, but a misdirect.

Could be an interesting way to introduce
Wilson Fisk/Kingpin
into the MCU continuity.

Or maybe they'll tease it being Vincent D'Onofrio, but then it turns out he's actually a chicken suit repairman called "Chode Bummington".

15-04-2021 11:31am

One posters puts something in a spoiler for a reason then another poster comes in at tells everyone what is in the spoiler. That is a total c u next tuesday thing to do.

FileNotFound · 15-04-2021 11:33am

I read something that any show that the characters use iphones in allows you to spot the bad guy.

Apple allow movies and tv to use there products but will not allow its use by the bad guy/girl.

Didn't bother to look but would be interesting if it turned out Sharon is the only one not using an iphone!!!!

Mitch Connor · 15-04-2021 11:33am

PespiChallenge wrote: »

One posters puts something in a spoiler for a reason then another poster comes in at tells everyone what is in the spoiler. That is a total c u next week thing to do.

Meh. Its speculation. It isn't fact, it isn't spoiling anything that has happened. It isn't spoiling anything that will happen based on trailers or set photos.

It is speculation about the hidden identity of a named character on the show.

FunLover18 · 15-04-2021 12:49pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Meh. Its speculation. It isn't fact, it isn't spoiling anything that has happened. It isn't spoiling anything that will happen based on trailers or set photos.

It is speculation about the hidden identity of a named character on the show.

If the speculation is correct it still takes away from the impact of the reveal. Some people are ok with that, some people would prefer know as little as possible. Spoiler tags helps both groups.

Mitch Connor · 15-04-2021 1:00pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

I read something that any show that the characters use iphones in allows you to spot the bad guy.

Apple allow movies and tv to use there products but will not allow its use by the bad guy/girl.

Didn't bother to look but would be interesting if it turned out Sharon is the only one not using an iphone!!!!

I've heard that, but don't know if it is true. and I am convinced the youtube vieo i saw that spoke about that was pointing out specific examples of it not being the case.

FileNotFound · 15-04-2021 1:11pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I've heard that, but don't know if it is true. and I am convinced the youtube vieo i saw that spoke about that was pointing out specific examples of it not being the case.

Could well be BS - was just in some online article i read. If it were true it would be a silly give away.

steve_r · 15-04-2021 1:24pm

I had thought this was bs and that frank Underwood and Doug stamper used iPhones in House of cards.... blackberries and Nokia’s

Rian Johnson apparently revealed this

robinph · 15-04-2021 2:19pm

tbahh wrote: »

Even the name sounds too long - Bucky and Falcon surely would have sufficed.

Only if the show was about pink unicorns which could fly and it was showing next to the Disney Princess section of the app. Bucky has to be one of the least superhero sounding character names ever.

Either that or it would be a Harry Potter spin off series.

The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (***Spoilers***)

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The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (Spoilers)