Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (***Spoilers***)

Options
1…457910…19

Comments

  • Options
    #182
    shawki
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭shawki


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Well I think the implication is he's not a super soldier. And his sidekick certainly isn't, yet he's falling off the back or lorries too, with no bother on him

    His suit probably has some protection.


  • Options
    #183
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,007 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    steve_r wrote: »
    It is an idea worth exploring but I don't feel the show dealt with it particularly well. It was a small part of the first episode and didn't feature in the second episode.

    They hit on it again in the second episode, talking about refugee camps that were created, the effort to restart social security numbers, the changes to government structures. They're slowly building out what the world is like after the people returned.


  • Options
    #184
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    What's the point of a super soldier premise if bog standard humans are just as strong or can hold their own?

    Skill and experience count for a lot in a fight, four soldiers going against a group of inexperienced fighters, even though super-powered, will get far. Even so, we see they all get beaten anyway.
    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Why would Bucky even need the shield to do the job, as he said on the plane? He often bested Captain America without the shield, who himself had it.

    Captain America beat Bucky every time they fought (twice in Winter Soldier and once in Civil War). Captain America was basically strong enough to bicep curl a helicopter while it tried to take off, he is like Spider-man in that he is severely pulling his punches so that he doesn't explode peoples heads when he punches them (doubly so after he realises the Winter Soldier is his friend and he doesn't want to kill him).
    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    As for the new Captain America saying to Bucky to stay out of his way or else, are we supposed to believe this new Captain America could even hold his own against Bucky? Shouldn't he be dead after one punch from Bucky?

    New Cap doesn't appear to be unpowered (during the tv interview with him, a short scene of him throwing the shield and he seems to be throwing faster than a normal human would). Bucky, as he is no longer brainwashed, also holds back.


  • Options
    #185
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Skill and experience count for a lot in a fight, four soldiers going against a group of inexperienced fighters, even though super-powered, will get far. Even so, we see they all get beaten anyway.

    Your standard human, army or not, doesn't be leaping and falling from trucks unscathed. They die, generally
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Captain America beat Bucky every time they fought (twice in Winter Soldier and once in Civil War). Captain America was basically strong enough to bicep curl a helicopter while it tried to take off, he is like Spider-man in that he is severely pulling his punches so that he doesn't explode peoples heads when he punches them (doubly so after he realises the Winter Soldier is his friend and he doesn't want to kill him).

    Captain America gave up in the last fight in Winter Soldier, they were at a stalemate at that point. Bucky disappeared in the first fight if I remember, stalemate again. Captain America was generally bested by Bucky, until the storyline decided Bucky can't win as he's the "bad guy". They are both super soldiers, supposed to be in and around the same level. Neither were holding back on the other, mitigating factors generally broke it up. Captain America didn't even know he was Bucky in the first fight

    Saying that, neither are even in the ballpark in terms of Spider-man's strength. They are supposed to be of peak/enhanced human abilities, Spider-man can lift 50 tonnes casually.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    New Cap doesn't appear to be unpowered (during the tv interview with him, a short scene of him throwing the shield and he seems to be throwing faster than a normal human would). Bucky, as he is no longer brainwashed, also holds back.

    The actor has said himself he isn't enhanced. Yet there he is throwing the shield around as if he is. We're supposed to believe anyone can pretty much be Captain America if he has "guts"? Does having guts now mean you do superhuman things all of a sudden. It's nonsense.


  • Options
    #186
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 45,010 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Your standard human, army or not, doesn't be leaping and falling from trucks unscathed. They die, generally



    Captain America gave up in the last fight in Winter Soldier, they were at a stalemate at that point. Bucky disappeared in the first fight if I remember, stalemate again. Captain America was generally bested by Bucky, until the storyline decided Bucky can't win as he's the "bad guy". They are both super soldiers, supposed to be in and around the same level.

    Saying that, neither are even in the ballpark in terms of Spider-man's strength. They are supposed to be of peak/enhanced human abilities, Spider-man can lift 50 tonnes casually



    The actor has said himself he isn't enhanced. Yet there he is throwing the shield around as if he is. We're supposed to believe anyone can pretty much be Captain America if he has "guts"? Does having guts now mean you do superhuman things all of a sudden. It's nonsense

    What is there to say that a really strong person can't throw the shield? We've seen people handle the shield - Tony picked it up without issue so it doesn't weigh the same as a truck or something. It isn't Thor's hammer.

    The only person we have seen try/fail to do similar is Happy (but not using Caps shield).

    Part of the point is Captain America is a symbol - which is what Walker is trying to be. He is the best of the best, or so we are told. A superb soldier, if not a super-soldier.

    Black Widow and Sam used caps sheild to stop themselves dying coming out of the car in Winter Soldier - the shield took the hit and cushioned them, just as it did Battlestar?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #187
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,810 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    adaminho wrote: »
    All I see is his Dad, especially when he wears the helmet.
    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Must be his big Ego
    Only found out today that Kurt Russell is his dad and therefore only get the references now.
    <face palm emoji>


  • Options
    #188
    shawki
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭shawki


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Spider-man can lift 50 tonnes casually

    I think you meant Superman because Spider-man is no where near that strong.


  • Options
    #189
    adaminho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭adaminho


    shawki wrote: »
    I think you meant Superman because Spider-man is no where near that strong.
    Superhuman Strength: Spider-Man has the proportional strength of a spider. This allows him to lift 10 tons or more (if he's under extreme stress or sufficiently enraged), allowing him to perform even greater levels of strength.

    https://spiderman.fandom.com/wiki/Peter_Parker_(Earth-616)#Powers


  • Options
    #190
    shawki
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭shawki


    adaminho wrote: »
    https://spiderman.fandom.com/wiki/Peter_Parker_(Earth-616)#Powers

    I don't see casually lifting 50 tonnes there.


  • Options
    #191
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    shawki wrote: »
    I don't see casually lifting 50 tonnes there.

    That was at the start. Over time they've put him in the 30-50 tonne region, as with Venom. Captain America and Bucky in the 1 tonne range, with Bucky's metal arm more. 10 tonne or not, Spiderman way above Captain Americas level


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #192
    Homelander
    Registered Users Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭Homelander


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    The actor has said himself he isn't enhanced. Yet there he is throwing the shield around as if he is. We're supposed to believe anyone can pretty much be Captain America if he has "guts"? Does having guts now mean you do superhuman things all of a sudden. It's nonsense.

    I agree entirely with this. I couldn't suspend belief seeing a supposed "gutsy but entirely normal" human get beat up by super soldiers, tossed off fast moving trucks, et al and be completely fine without a scratch, not to mention flinging and catch the vibranium shield like a casual frisbee, etc.

    It just strikes me as nonsensical even within a comic book world with a lot of leeway. They seem to want to suggest that guts and patriotism somehow magically compensate for the shortfalls.

    Some of the counter-arguments are weak or missing the point. Someone throwing the shield, picking it up, being saved by it on occassion - totally fine.

    What is less fine (for me personally) is Walker being a normal guy in the narrative, and then being a de-facto super-human himself on screen.

    It would be like if a normal 12st man in real life went up against a prime Mike Tyson, and was then tossed off a moving truck.

    He'd be in A&E for six months. Not dusting himself off with a chuckle and onto the next adventure.

    I really liked Wandavision (and it goes without saying I love Winter Soldier and following movies) and I do see a lot of people praising this but I'm finding it a fairly dumb dud so far.


  • Options
    #193
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users Posts: 9,697 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    shawki wrote: »
    I don't see casually lifting 50 tonnes there.

    But you did see him pull two halves of a boat back together in Homecoming, which I'm sure is a lot more than 50 tonnes.


  • Options
    #194
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    But you did see him pull two halves of a boat back together in Homecoming, which I'm sure is a lot more than 50 tonnes.

    That 10 tonne thing is years old. He started off at that strength, Green Goblin and Venom slightly stronger. They've all been moved up to the 50 tonne range over time.

    Carnage was 80 tonne. How were Spiderman and Venom supposed to beat him, even together, both being in the 10 tonne range?

    What was ridiculous is that Captain America could even tag Spiderman in Civil War. One way stomping if Spiderman wanted


  • Options
    #195
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Homelander wrote: »
    I agree entirely with this. I couldn't suspend belief seeing a supposed "gutsy but entirely normal" human get beat up by super soldiers, tossed off fast moving trucks, et al and be completely fine without a scratch, not to mention flinging and catch the vibranium shield like a casual frisbee, etc.

    It just strikes me as nonsensical even within a comic book world with a lot of leeway. They seem to want to suggest that guts and patriotism somehow magically compensate for the shortfalls.

    Some of the counter-arguments are weak or missing the point. Someone throwing the shield, picking it up, being saved by it on occassion - totally fine.

    What is less fine (for me personally) is Walker being a normal guy in the narrative, and then being a de-facto super-human himself on screen.

    It would be like if a normal 12st man in real life went up against a prime Mike Tyson, and was then tossed off a moving truck.

    He'd be in A&E for six months. Not dusting himself off with a chuckle and onto the next adventure.

    I really liked Wandavision (and it goes without saying I love Winter Soldier and following movies) and I do see a lot of people praising this but I'm finding it a fairly dumb dud so far.

    Exactly. Cringy watching him threaten Bucky, and for the sake of the storyline Bucky saying nothing back. Are we supposed to believe he'd be anything more than a fly for Buckey to swathe away? And with Bucky's temperament, he'd say nothing back? Least not upend him there and then?


  • Options
    #196
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users Posts: 9,697 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    That 10 tonne thing is years old. He started off at that strength, Green Goblin and Venom slightly stronger. They've all been moved up to the 50 tonne range over time.

    Carnage was 80 tonne. How were Spiderman and Venom supposed to beat him, even together, both being in the 10 tonne range?

    What was ridiculous is that Captain America could even tag Spiderman in Civil War. One way stomping if Spiderman wanted

    Well aware of his range and time line.

    Cap was able to hit him, because Peter was a 16 year old kid who only had his powers six months when Civil War happened.


  • Options
    #197
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Well aware of his range and time line.

    Cap was able to hit him, because Peter was a 16 year old kid who only had his powers six months when Civil War happened.

    Haha ye sorry, was agreeing and expanding on what you said, not disputing anything as it probably came across as


  • Options
    #198
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Homelander wrote: »
    It just strikes me as nonsensical even within a comic book world with a lot of leeway.

    Just reading back and I think that's a very good point. It's a fictional universe, but even given that there should be some consistency within it.

    Thor powering Ironman's suit up just so there's a fight is nonsense. As is Hulk being knocked clean out by the Hulkbuster suit. Thor seems up and down depending on the story. From what we seen of Spider-man his feats are very up and down. The only two with consistency are Captain America and Iron-man, but very overpowered compared to their comic counterparts.

    The character that's the worst for this is Bucky. When bad, he can do anything seemingly. When good, next to useless. The fight at the end of Civil War summed it up for me. It's a point very few people pick up on, the ridiculous and unbelievable manner it happened in.

    First we have Bucky's vibranium arm, shown to be able to crush Iron-mans suit (his hand at the start of the fight), does so within a second. Despite his arm, and Cap's shield being their biggest asset in the fight, Bucky spends his time running away. When forced to fight, Bucky pins Iron-man to the wall and goes for his reactor/heart thing. This should have been pulled out in a second, least not destroyed beforehand when Bucky hit it dead on with a vibranium hand, knocking Iron-man against the wall.

    Next we see his hand blown in two by a blast from Iron-man's reactor. Can he even shoot blasts from there? Never seen it before that scene. Next Bucky's arm is in two, despite vibranium being indestructible. If anything, surely it should of came off from the shoulder. Next Bucky is helpless on the floor, despite the fact he feels no pain in that arm. Nonsense from start to finish, as far as I'm concerned anyway. The fights logical conclusion was when Bucky went for his heart reactor with a vibranium hand


  • Options
    #199
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users Posts: 9,697 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Just reading back and I think that's a very good point. It's a fictional universe, but even given that there should be some consistency within it.

    Thor powering Ironman's suit up just so there's a fight is nonsense. As is Hulk being knocked clean out by the Hulkbuster suit. Thor seems up and down depending on the story. From what we seen of Spider-man his feats are very up and down. The only two with consistency are Captain America and Iron-man, but very overpowered compared to their comic counterparts.

    The character that's the worst for this is Bucky. When bad, he can do anything seemingly. When good, next to useless. The fight at the end of Civil War summed it up for me. It's a point very few people pick up on, the ridiculous and unbelievable manner it happened in.

    First we have Bucky's vibranium arm, shown to be able to crush Iron-mans suit (his hand at the start of the fight), does so within a second. Despite his arm, and Cap's shield being their biggest asset in the fight, Bucky spends his time running away. When forced to fight, Bucky pins Iron-man to the wall and goes for his reactor/heart thing. This should have been pulled out in a second, least not destroyed beforehand when Bucky hit it dead on with a vibranium hand, knocking Iron-man against the wall.

    Next we see his hand blown in two by a blast from Iron-man's reactor. Can he even shoot blasts from there? Never seen it before that scene. Next Bucky's arm is in two, despite vibranium being indestructible. If anything, surely it should of came off from the shoulder. Next Bucky is helpless on the floor, despite the fact he feels no pain in that arm. Nonsense from start to finish, as far as I'm concerned anyway. The fights logical conclusion was when Bucky went for his heart reactor with a vibranium hand

    Alright ill bite. Bucky is a character who's only 100% effective when he's the Winter Soldier. This persona is a killing machine with no morals, no cares and no reason. Bucky is not stronger than Cap, as the serum Cap got was the original and Bucky's was a replica of the formula that Zola stole. Bucky only beat Cap because of his tenacity and innermost desire to please his masters.

    In TFATWS, he's a shell of his former self, and his 'rules' from his therapist reinforce this. He can't (doesn't want to?) hurt/kill anybody, as he now has his memories of what he's done. He's certainly pulling his punches, even against the baddies.

    Now, onto the CW fight. Iron Man has previous for using the Arc Reactor as a phaser beam, it's his most powerful one and we even see him hit Thor with it in their first fight after he gets hit with lightening.

    Bucky's arm in Civil War was made of titanium, he didn't receive the Vibranium arm until the end of Black Panther when he became the White Wolf. Tony could easily cut titanium in two. Isiah also recalls that he tore half of Bucky's arm off in the second episode of TFAWS.

    Vibranium is not indestructible, its just simply stronger than a lot of other stuff. Thanos sword was made of Uru which cut Caps shield in half, and Adamantium is also stronger again.

    If you're going to put up petty arguments, at least have the facts right.


  • Options
    #200
    Agent Coulson
    Registered Users Posts: 60,285 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Nice to see Agent 13 get the chance to kick some ass.

    Wasn't expecting that person at the end but really should have guessed they would turn up at some stage.


  • Options
    #201
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 45,010 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Agent Coulson wrote: »
    Nice to see Agent 13 get the chance to kick some ass.

    Wasn't expecting that person at the end but really should have guessed they would turn up at some stage.

    Sharon is 100% the power broker too.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #202
    The White Wolf
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    Sharon is 100% the power broker too.

    Won't stop people theorizing how it's Doctor Doom or Norman Osborne.


  • Options
    #203
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users Posts: 9,697 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    Sharon is 100% the power broker too.

    Nah its Mephisto


  • Options
    #204
    CastorTroy
    Registered Users Posts: 28,794 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I think it might be Agnes who I believe is really someone else.

    Anyone else find it annoying when people going undercover or sneaking in somewhere always get phonecalls to give them away? Like when I go into a meeting at work I make sure my phone is off or at least on silent. So if I'm going into a meeting where I could possibly be killed, can be sure I'm definitely turning my phone off.

    They addressed the question of why the new Super Soldiers aren't all muscly.

    And then have the car bomb in case viewers were being empathetic with Karli.

    Is the 'A' on Cap's back a magnet and that's how the shield seems to stick and come off so easily?

    And I see this was written by the John Wick writer


  • Options
    #205
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,226 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Enjoyed the episode as a whole, but not a huge fan of what they're doing with Zemo. He was one of the best Marvel villains because of how understated and careful he was, how meticulous he was, and how for the most part he was just an incredible soldier driven to destroy the Avengers. Now he's become a bit of a caricature. They needed him because of what he knew about Hydra when trying to destroy the Avengers, but now he also has this history in Madripoor etc. It's a bit jarring.

    The end reveal was pretty class though. Didn't see it coming.


  • Options
    #206
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 31,831 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I quite enjoyed episode 3 overall.
    Sharon given a nice chance to shine, she was always really underserved in the films. Some fun dialogue and back and forths. Hopefully she is in more episodes.
    Zemo was fun..his moves in the gallery/club ha ha, it helps that Daniel Bruhl is a good actor.

    However I will say......christ....who cast the boss in the club?!? Fecking hell she was absolutely awful! The doctor making the super serum wasn't much better.
    But hey at least wont be seeing either again!
    The actress playing Karli...she is ok...but as a complicated "villain"....nope not working at all for me.

    I will continue to watch but it is solid fun rather than a spectacular success so far for me.


  • Options
    #207
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,770 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Enjoyed this week's episode

    Was that
    One of black panthers sisters from Wakanda at the end ?

    Have a feeling that
    Zemos wife and child (maybe one of them) is still alive


  • Options
    #208
    Lithium93_
    Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Enjoyed this week's episode

    Was that
    One of black panthers sisters from Wakanda at the end ?

    Have a feeling that
    Zemos wife and child (maybe one of them) is still alive

    Kinda hard for Zemo's wife and kid to be alive when he mentioned in Civil War that he found their bodies two days after the events of Age Of Ultron


  • Options
    #209
    The White Wolf
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    Kinda hard for Zemo's wife and kid to be alive when he mentioned in Civil War that he found their bodies two days after the events of Age Of Ultron

    I think they're saying it's Zemo being literally Machiavellian - he engineered his whole story in CW as part of a bigger scheme.

    Not exactly subtle stuff.


  • Options
    #210
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,226 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Enjoyed this week's episode

    Was that
    One of black panthers sisters from Wakanda at the end ?

    Have a feeling that
    Zemos wife and child (maybe one of them) is still alive

    They're not
    Black Panther's sisters, they're his elite security guards, the Dora Milaje. But yeah, she's one of them. She was in Civil War.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #211
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,226 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The White Wolf wrote: »
    I think they're saying it's Zemo being literally Machiavellian - he engineered his whole story in CW as part of a bigger scheme.

    Not exactly subtle stuff.

    I doubt it, I'd say more so that just his helping Sam & Bucky is the lie as part of the bigger scheme. I really don't think they'd retcon his family's death, especially since so much has happened since then that there was no way Zemo ever could have planned this far ahead, even generally. Everything is happening because of the blip and Cap deciding to give up the shield and go back in time.


Advertisement