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08-12-2019, 00:04   #2911
molloyjh
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Oh here we go again. All hail King Joe the man who can do no wrong bar f up 2 world cups with his own special brand of idiosyncratic micro managing ocd approach to coaching !
Lazy nonsense. We topped our group in 2015 and only lost the QF to a list of injuries no team could cope with. I've no issue calling out Joe for making mistakes. I'm reasonable enough to recognise though that he wasnt the only one who didnt deliver. And decent enough to not let the failings of 2019 colour my judgement of a man who was not only the single most successful coach this country has ever seen, but is also a genuinely decent guy who regularly made time for people and engaged with them when most others wouldnt have.

If you want to be insulting head on over to Twitter. This is a discussion forum, not a place for people to spout their own special brand of lazy finger pointing like they have a clue approach to rugby analysis.
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08-12-2019, 00:14   #2912
partyjungle
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The big question is what sort of long term damage has Schmidt inflicted on the Irish rugby players.
Long term damage being bringing the expectation of Irish rugby to its greatest heights?
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08-12-2019, 07:43   #2913
Shefwedfan
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I think it's getting to the stage for me where Murray is no longer automatic first choice for Ireland. He is not just off form, he has been playing at a lower level for 12-18 months.

Past achievements carry weight, I accept that, but over the last 12 months I think his level has dropped significantly, to the extent that I don't think it's clear who is the best SH between:

McGrath
JGP
Cooney
Murray
Marmion
Blade

In fact, if Farrell picked any 3 from that above list, I'd find it hard to argue with him. They are all good players.
Based on current form it would have to be
Cooney
Blade
JGP

JGP could jump Blade based on performances this/next weekend
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08-12-2019, 13:20   #2914
awec
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Cooney is the best 9 in Ireland at the current time, and must surely get a proper go in February.
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08-12-2019, 13:30   #2915
irishbucsfan
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JGP's arrival will put big pressure on them all. He's really developed into a top 9
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08-12-2019, 15:38   #2916
Dubinusa
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Cooney is playing great. He should be in pole position. Murray shouldn't be close to the squad at this stage.
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08-12-2019, 15:47   #2917
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Cooney is playing great. He should be in pole position. Murray shouldn't be close to the squad at this stage.
I'm not sure there's any point in having an expectation Murray won't make the squad, I'd be absolutely shocked if he didn't and even if everyone keeps playing exactly as they are, if I were a betting man I'd bet on him to start. But I do agree he's not the best 9 we have now and his middling form has been going on for a long time now.

Injuries certainly haven't helped and I really think his untouchable status has to have made some contribution too. It was irrelevant how he played for Munster or Ireland, he was playing every big game and he was playing for 70+ minutes. Farrell has a job to do to get a bit of competition going in the position. Cooney has been overlooked for way too long.

Last edited by Interested Observer; 08-12-2019 at 15:55.
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08-12-2019, 16:45   #2918
troyzer
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I'm not sure there's any point in having an expectation Murray won't make the squad, I'd be absolutely shocked if he didn't and even if everyone keeps playing exactly as they are, if I were a betting man I'd bet on him to start. But I do agree he's not the best 9 we have now and his middling form has been going on for a long time now.

Injuries certainly haven't helped and I really think his untouchable status has to have made some contribution too. It was irrelevant how he played for Munster or Ireland, he was playing every big game and he was playing for 70+ minutes. Farrell has a job to do to get a bit of competition going in the position. Cooney has been overlooked for way too long.
Murray hasn't been good since June 2018.

That's 18 months ago. I'm all in favour of giving your guys time to play into form but 18 months is taking the piss, even giving him time for the injury.
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08-12-2019, 17:57   #2919
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Murray and Cooney are in two different conversations though. It was never Murray keeping Cooney out of the squad.
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08-12-2019, 18:08   #2920
sydthebeat
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Realistically I see the 9 shirt as open as the 2 shirt currently.. And it's unfortunate that that's the case.

It really depends on how farrell wants to play, but if it's higher tempo away from contact there are currently better options playing than Murray

Last edited by sydthebeat; 08-12-2019 at 20:38.
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08-12-2019, 18:08   #2921
Rattlehead_ie
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I am not wanting to start more of the Schmidt back and forth here but its interesting to see that, certainly at 9, The players who weren't AS involved with the Irish setup in the last 4 yrs are performing better at the moment.
While I defo think Cooney and Blade should be brought in and heavily used if during the 6N if their performances continue. I think we could see Murray displaced, but coming back into form over the next few months.
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08-12-2019, 18:51   #2922
jacothelad
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Where does Marmion fit in here? It seems to me that he has been sidelined from the conversation without due regard.
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08-12-2019, 18:56   #2923
Dubinusa
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I think Marmion is hurt. He is proven and if his form returns, he should be in with a shout.
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08-12-2019, 19:08   #2924
Interested Observer
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I think Marmion is hurt. He is proven and if his form returns, he should be in with a shout.
He's started in wins against England and NZ so yeah we know he can do it. Dunno what has happened him since the NZ win though. Injury/loss of form/lost confidence?
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08-12-2019, 20:35   #2925
whatawaster
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Where does Marmion fit in here? It seems to me that he has been sidelined from the conversation without due regard.
I don't think there is a lot between our 6 best SH's at the moment.

I'd agree Cooney probably in the best form at the moment, followed by JGP and Blade. Murray probably in the worst form.
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