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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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UAEguy2020

shootermacg wrote: »

Exactly! Farrell was getting crap ball and did very well to clean it up. That game was proof that a wooden ten can easily lose a game for you.

If RB can look good at Leinster, then you'd have to look at the other Leinster 10s in a new light. Likewise JS has struggled against Teams that aren't being beaten up by his pack.

BB and Carty have had to play behind a poor pack, something the Leinster 10s have very little experience with. There's a good argument for giving him his chance.

Funny because the performance at 10 from Byrne is no different to the performance Sexton has served up playing at 10 vs England, only difference is he’s Sexton so doesn’t get picked on as much.

I’m not buying this playing behind dominant pack bull****, if the pack isn’t doninant you play the territory, if you keep doing what you’ve been doing vs England you’ll keep getting what you’ve been getting.

People think SA dominating England physically is what won them the World Cup but what that was built on was beating England at their own kicking game forcing England to have to attack SA which they weren’t comfortable doing, doing so took England out of their comfort zone and had them doubt themselves and once that happened SA started to physically dominate and the rest in history.

In turn, if you can’t beat England up physically you should kick the ball in behind and put them on the back foot like Ireland were doing in the first half until they stopped once the first England try was scored.

shootermacg

CMcsporty wrote: »

Using that England game as a barometer for Farrell "taking his opportunities far more accurately" is grossly unfair.
Ireland never got front foot ball and whenever Farrell got the ball the he head defenders never more than 3-5m from him & he was taking it static because of how deep Ireland were been pushed.

Exactly! Farrell was getting crap ball and did very well to clean it up. That game was proof that a wooden ten can easily lose a game for you.

If RB can look good at Leinster, then you'd have to look at the other Leinster 10s in a new light. Likewise JS has struggled against Teams that aren't being beaten up by his pack.

BB and Carty have had to play behind a poor pack, something the Leinster 10s have very little experience with. There's a good argument for giving them their chance.

CMcsporty

Ringrose is the only World Class back Ireland has
Farrell on his very best day is never going to take his place

His only competition for 13 is Henshaw.
Using that England game as a barometer for Farrell "taking his opportunities far more accurately" is grossly unfair.
Ireland never got front foot ball and whenever Farrell got the ball the he head defenders never more than 3-5m from him & he was taking it static because of how deep Ireland were been pushed.
I dont know how any back - unless you are Tuilagi - or certainly any Irish back that would make meters in that situation.

Was that the gaem plan? Truck it up? Whatever it was it certainly didnt create any space for Farrell to make gainline.

Buer

TRC10 wrote: »

Is this the Farrell who was one of the only Ireland players to regularly get over the gainline against England last week?

I've seen this raised a few times. Farrell had several solid carries in the second half when we had our purple patch and were making yards. Outside of that, he struggled with ball in hand. He was repeatedly stopped or knocked back. I'm a huge Farrell fan and he was dealing with terrible attacking alignment but I was still disappointed with his production. Normally, he's so powerful that he can force his way over the gain line even with a defender in his face. He had 15 carries for 17m so he certainly wasn't getting over the gain line with any real success.

His two most memorable moments in the game were negative. He was scorched on the outside by May for the second try and he then failed to ground a ball when he was held up by a guy who is 15kg lighter than him.

Farrell is an excellent player but if he has any ambition to break past the trio of centres ahead of him, he's going to need to take his opportunities far more accurately than he did against England.

TRC10

Ardillaun wrote: »

They're exceptional players. Nonetheless, more kicking options would help us right across the team. What we're doing isn't working against quality opposition.

I agree but that wasnt the OPs original point

Ardillaun

TRC10 wrote: »

So not kicking the ball makes you not a test 13 now? Ok I guess Manu Tuilagi isnt a test 13 then...or Vakatawa.

They're exceptional players. Nonetheless, more kicking options would help us right across the team. What we're doing isn't working against quality opposition.

Ardillaun

Paul Weller wrote: »

Possibly a cardable offence on my part.... But Chris Ashton isn't a huge Lowe fan it seems
https://rugbylad.ie/england-winger-launches-absolutely-scathing-attack-irelands-james-lowe/

Lowe did jog rather leisurely back after May but I'd keep him on the team for a while yet, which leaves us with a Stockdale conundrum. Dare I suggest 15 again? (He'll always have Paris.) Earls seemed eager enough to earn another outing. I'd also start Farrell and Burns. Murray improved things after he came on but I still find myself shouting hurry up at the telly when he's pausing too long. Not sure about Aki.

TRC10

Iamabeliever wrote: »

And that makes a test 13? Don’t think he kicked the ball once? He needs to do a look more to be compared to Ringrose and Henshaw.

So not kicking the ball makes you not a test 13 now? Ok I guess Manu Tuilagi isnt a test 13 then...or Vakatawa.

Iamabeliever

TRC10 wrote: »

Is this the Farrell who was one of the only Ireland players to regularly get over the gainline against England last week?

And that makes a test 13? Don’t think he kicked the ball once? He needs to do a lot more to be compared to Ringrose and Henshaw.

TRC10

Iamabeliever wrote: »

I wouldn’t give two ):@;!! If earls played Sunday and never played for Ireland again. I’m only coming up with this combination so that it will give mccloskey the best platform to show what he can do attack wise. My ideal combo would be Ringrose but he’s injured. Plus earls is a seasoned campaigner with nothing to prove. Also Farrell is soooooo far from a test 13, he offers energy and work rate !

Is this the Farrell who was one of the only Ireland players to regularly get over the gainline against England last week?

Iamabeliever

TRC10 wrote: »

We've been down this road more times than I care to remember. Keith Earls is not a test quality 13. What is the point in playing him there in the swansong of his career against Georgia in a nothing tournament?

I wouldn’t give two ):@;!! If earls played Sunday and never played for Ireland again. I’m only coming up with this combination so that it will give mccloskey the best platform to show what he can do attack wise. My ideal combo would be Ringrose but he’s injured. Plus earls is a seasoned campaigner with nothing to prove. Also Farrell is soooooo far from a test 13, he offers energy and work rate !

TRC10

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Earls in space is a sight to behold. I think the aforementioned mccloskey will provide the space!

We've been down this road more times than I care to remember. Keith Earls is not a test quality 13. What is the point in playing him there in the swansong of his career against Georgia in a nothing tournament?

The Lost Sheep

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Aki has Underperformed during this current Ireland camp.
I just think for the Georgia game earls and mccloskey “little and large” would cause havoc. (I don’t really care about the ball getting out to the wingers) And the other alternative is Farrell and I just don’t think mcclockey and Farrell would jell going by the Fiji performance.

You dont care about ball going to wingers??
Earls isnt going to be playing in the centre. That stopped bar emergencies years ago.

Iamabeliever

nerd69 wrote: »

Why would you even bring earls at 13 up

Earls in space is a sight to behold. I think the aforementioned mccloskey will provide the space!

Iamabeliever

TRC10 wrote: »

How has Aki underperformed??? He was phenomenal in all 5 grand slam games and v the All Blacks that year. And has been one of our most consistent and reliable players since. And why play a 34 year old out of position in the position we have the most strength in depth?

Aki has Underperformed during this current Ireland camp.
I just think for the Georgia game earls and mccloskey “little and large” would cause havoc. (I don’t really care about the ball getting out to the wingers) And the other alternative is Farrell and I just don’t think mcclockey and Farrell would jell going by the Fiji performance.

TRC10

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Massive fan of Stuart McCloskey. Love to see him do well in a settled team. Always hitting big numbers in carries and tackles for ulster And Aki has underperformed since he got in the Ireland set up for whatever reason. This may be out of the blue but I wouldn’t mind seeing him partnered up with earls at 13

How has Aki underperformed??? He was phenomenal in all 5 grand slam games and v the All Blacks that year. And has been one of our most consistent and reliable players since. And why play a 34 year old out of position in the position we have the most strength in depth?

[Deleted User]

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Massive fan of Stuart McCloskey. Love to see him do well in a settled team. Always hitting big numbers in carries and tackles for ulster. Aki has underperformed since he got in the Ireland set up for whatever reason. This may be out of the blue but I wouldn’t mind seeing him partnered up with earls at 13

Why would you even bring earls at 13 up

Iamabeliever

Massive fan of Stuart McCloskey. Love to see him do well in a settled team. Always hitting big numbers in carries and tackles for ulster And Aki has underperformed since he got into this Ireland campfor whatever reason. This may be out of the blue but I wouldn’t mind seeing him partnered up with earls at 13

Paul Smeenus

aloooof wrote: »

Shane Horgan has been pretty critical of Andy Farrell, Ross Byrne and James Lowe on Second Captains. Especially Farrell, says he doesn’t see how he’ll improve the situation.

D'you've a link?

Ah you've to pay - Never mind.

Paul Smeenus

Bazzo wrote: »

No, he definitely packed down at tighthead

Fair enough.

aloooof

Shane Horgan has been pretty critical of Andy Farrell, Ross Byrne and James Lowe on Second Captains. Especially Farrell, says he doesn’t see how he’ll improve the situation.

Bazzo

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I double-checked, having noticed the numbers weren't what I expected, and thought he was packing down at LH. But t I could well have been wrong.

No, he definitely packed down at tighthead

Paul Smeenus

Bazzo wrote: »

Roux scrummaged on the tight head side even though he was wearing 4.

I double-checked, having noticed the numbers weren't what I expected, and thought he was packing down at LH. But t I could well have been wrong.

Paul Weller

Possibly a cardable offence on my part.... But Chris Ashton isn't a huge Lowe fan it seems
https://rugbylad.ie/england-winger-launches-absolutely-scathing-attack-irelands-james-lowe/

TRC10

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

In fairness, Henderson is the go-to Irish lineout caller, has been since Toner stopped featuring. It's just that he has been injured a bit. I'm not sure what a "noted line-out caller" is? Do Scotland have one? France?

And Ryan is our TH lock - for all everyone was talking about Roux adding ballast and helping Porter, he played at 4.

He wore 4 but if you watch the game Roux scrummaged behind Porter

UAEguy2020

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'm seeing some talk about the lineout issues. How can you hope to have a really good lineout without a master caller/jumper playing? Roux and Henderson and Ryan can and do call lineouts, but none of them are noted callers/jumpers. For a long time Ireland had O'Connell and then Toner. Is the value of a really good caller/jumper not being recognised enough at the moment? Personally, I'd like to see Thornbury more involved. He's good in the lineout. Trouble is he's quite injury-prone. The others should focus more on tighthead lock, imo, if they can bring enough weight to the role to complement a jumper lock, or, if playing th lock doesn't suit them, focus on blindside at international level.

Our lineout was pretty inconsistent even when Toner was playing. The lineout performance on Saturday was below standard for any level of the game and not for the first time.

Bazzo

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

In fairness, Henderson is the go-to Irish lineout caller, has been since Toner stopped featuring. It's just that he has been injured a bit. I'm not sure what a "noted line-out caller" is? Do Scotland have one? France?

And Ryan is our TH lock - for all everyone was talking about Roux adding ballast and helping Porter, he played at 4.

Roux scrummaged on the tight head side even though he was wearing 4.

Richie_Rich89

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Well a) we don't a have a standout then, and you have to learn to do it and get experience and b) Ryan was packing down behind Porter.

He was? I didn't pick up on that.

shootermacg

Beirne is a good lineout caller at Munster.

Paul Smeenus

Well a) we don't a have a standout then, and you have to learn to do it and get experience and b) Ryan was packing down behind Porter.