Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

magicbastarder · 19-06-2020 9:11am

Hurrache · 19-06-2020 9:18am

SeanW wrote: »

Pretty much every single post from your side has been "cyclists aren't the ones killing 2 or 3 people a week, ergo our profligate lawbreaking doesn't matter" yet when I suggest that an OAP isn't a horrible monster for letting their car roll onto some rocks, just a human being who made a silly mistake - quite literally hurting nothing/nobody but the drivers ego - that's bad?

There's been some blatant hypocrisy in this thread, but that was absolutely mind-blowing.

If someone does an Evil Knievel off a cliff on a bike it's likely only themselves they'll pancake. If they did it in a car the risk to others is much much larger.

Also, profligate

The gardai back that up.

SeanW wrote: »

There seems to be a common thread on here. Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

I've 2 sets of 4 wheels. I remain a good person.

Duckjob · 19-06-2020 9:20am

magicbastarder wrote: »

<scratches head about the jazz fan reference>

So was I

After a quick bit of googling I found this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelonious_Monk

magicbastarder · 19-06-2020 9:31am

oh duh. i forgot about him.
(to be honest, i was wondering if pinch flat was also a term used in jazz!)

TaurenDruid · 19-06-2020 9:46am

07Lapierre wrote: »

Sometimes Motorists and cyclists break The law intentionally and as a matter of routine. But there’s no getting way from the fact that us motorists must bear greater responsibility for road safety because cars are the ones that kill people.

In my opinion a lot of the issues that people have with cyclists would be solved if we had better cycling infrastructure. With better cycle lanes, their would be no need for cyclists to cycle on the pavement (yes I know some still would). With better cycling infrastructure, their would be more people cycling, which means less cars in our roads...but as we’ve seen during the last few weeks, less cars on our roads resulted in more speeding and no reduction in road deaths. None of the road deaths were cyclists or the result of a collision with cyclists. These are facts. You may not like it but cars are the problem when it comes to road safety.

Yes, this. I mean there are definite problems with the type of urban planning we (don't) have - large suburbs of low-density housing spread out over large areas and ribbon housing in the countryside - compared to, say, urban France or the Netherlands, that don't lend themselves to cycling being an easy option for many, but we can't solve that.

What we can do, however, is put in proper cycling infrastructure wherever possible, where it would benefit everyone - pedestrian, motorist and public transport users included. It always astounds me when a new housing development goes up and it might or might not have a cycling lane included, but still never has a segregated cycling lane. It should surely be a requirement for any new planning permission.

Unfortunately, what happens here is someone posts a genuine grievance about one particular thing that's annoying them - and cyclists on footpaths are annoying, inconsiderate and dangerous! - but the zealots jump in with whataboutery, further alienating people who would otherwise be supportive.

07Lapierre · 19-06-2020 9:52am

This is Paris... TODAY! WOW

https://twitter.com/peterkinvara/status/1273888253683412993?s=21

magicbastarder · 19-06-2020 9:54am

unfortunately there are still some bizarre examples of planning being granted; this is a recently completed small estate (10 houses) i pass occasionally on the bike, and it's a couple of km from the nearest town, no paths of any description provided (and they'd be economically unviable anyway). i just don't get the notion of wanting to live in the countryside, while living in a housing estate?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4703172,-6.3758863,243m/data=!3m1!1e3

07Lapierre · 19-06-2020 10:03am

Agree.. building houses in the countryside where their are no pavements, no local train stations, no bus routes means that the only way people can get around is by car (unless they are keen cyclists!). Every house built means two more cars on the road! It’s madness.

AndrewJRenko · 19-06-2020 10:04am

SeanW wrote: »

I'm saying it's a lot of bullcrap for no reason.

Just ever so slightly vague there. What do you reckon the pass rate would be for your beloved 'safest drivers in the world' if a mandatory retest was brought in tomorrow?

Do you think we'd get over 50%?

Your earlier comment was the best argument for mandatory retesting of drivers that I've heard in a long time.

average_runner · 19-06-2020 10:07am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just ever so slightly vague there. What do you reckon the pass rate would be for your beloved 'safest drivers in the world' if a mandatory retest was brought in tomorrow?

Do you think we'd get over 50%?

Your earlier comment was the best argument for mandatory retesting of drivers that I've heard in a long time.

Funnily enough I doubt 50% of the population would know the rules of the road that applies them, ie walkers, cyclists, motorists

LeinsterDub · 19-06-2020 10:07am

SeanW wrote: »

There seems to be a common thread on here. Two wheels good. Four wheels bad. Cyclists break the law - intentionally - as a matter of routine. Jumping red lights. Menacing pedestrians on the footpath. Disregarding lane direction controls. And in so doing, they present much more danger to pedestrians than some motorist returning to cruising speed when they leave a town as opposed to crawling through the countryside for 1/2 mile for no reason (Andy's 98%). But to listen to some here, Irish motorists who are generally among the world's safest, are the ONLY problem, and they need to be regulated to mind-blowingly absurd extremes.

I have no doubt that the driver who let their car roll away could have caused something worse. But I'm also certain that they didn't do it on purpose, and I'd expect they'll be reflecting carefully on their actions. They're a human being who made one silly mistake. Unlike some of the two-faced hypocrites jumping down their throat.

https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1273494631599095809

Hurrache · 19-06-2020 10:16am

07Lapierre wrote: »

This is Paris... TODAY! WOW

https://twitter.com/peterkinvara/status/1273888253683412993?s=21

Shocking, not a builders vest and nary a helmet to be seen. A&E departments won't cope with the mayhem.

Hurrache · 19-06-2020 10:21am

magicbastarder wrote: »

unfortunately there are still some bizarre examples of planning being granted; this is a recently completed small estate (10 houses) i pass occasionally on the bike, and it's a couple of km from the nearest town, no paths of any description provided (and they'd be economically unviable anyway). i just don't get the notion of wanting to live in the countryside, while living in a housing estate?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4703172,-6.3758863,243m/data=!3m1!1e3

Ha, before I even clicked the link I had an idea in my head of an area matching your exact description, and it was this.

On the former grounds of Ashbourne GAA club. Houses themselves are nice, I popped in when passing back when they were launching, but crazy money. Don't think they're all sold yet. Kilbride is the nearest village, but not on a pleasant road and commercially there's only a pub and petrol station (which only reopened relatively recently). Ashbourne is the other direction, but not within the distance where you might take a stroll to for a paper and coffee on a morning.

Stark · 19-06-2020 10:24am

Hurrache wrote: »

07Lapierre wrote: »

This is Paris... TODAY! WOW

https://twitter.com/peterkinvara/status/1273888253683412993

Shocking, not a builders vest and nary a helmet to be seen. A&E departments won't cope with the mayhem.

I could only see one cyclist at the very start of that video

Next to the dayglo bollards in the empty street.

07Lapierre · 19-06-2020 10:27am

Stark wrote: »

I could only see one cyclist at the very start of that video Next to the dayglo bollards in the empty street.

There’s a car in there somewhere as well!

LeinsterDub · 19-06-2020 10:31am

07Lapierre wrote: »

There’s a car in there somewhere as well!

Hold on too yizzer hats but I had that video analysed by an AI and it suggests there is a high probability there are also scooters and pedestrians

Stark · 19-06-2020 10:35am

Nice. The AI must be able to see wavelengths outside of the bright yellow visible light spectrum.

Shelga · 19-06-2020 11:26am

I found it! A thread where I can share my immense irritation at cyclists all over the footpaths these days. So selfish and inconsiderate. I am a pedestrian, a runner, a cyclist and a driver, and I don't understand all the bile aimed at joggers, who do everything they can to avoid people on the path, and are gone by in 1 second and take up barely any space.

Adult cyclists are all over the paths, everywhere you go- I swear it has increased tenfold since this pandemic started. Selfish morons.

I give a bit more leeway to the endless families I see with 3 kids on bikes and 2 parents, clogging up the entire footpath. How else are they meant to get to and from the park or wherever, I guess, if the kids are young- but it's still deeply annoying and I'm not sure of the legalities of it.

So good to vent

Shelga · 19-06-2020 11:29am

Also when I am cycling, can honestly say it is incredibly rare that I would break a red light, but I would say 95% of cyclists simply do not give a **** about the rules of the road and think red lights do not apply to them. Gardai need to start enforcing on the spot €100 fines, would be glorious to see.

ewc78 · 19-06-2020 11:36am

Shelga wrote: »

I found it! A thread where I can share my immense irritation at cyclists all over the footpaths these days. So selfish and inconsiderate. I am a pedestrian, a runner, a cyclist and a driver, and I don't understand all the bile aimed at joggers, who do everything they can to avoid people on the path, and are gone by in 1 second and take up barely any space.

Adult cyclists are all over the paths, everywhere you go- I swear it has increased tenfold since this pandemic started. Selfish morons.

I give a bit more leeway to the endless families I see with 3 kids on bikes and 2 parents, clogging up the entire footpath. How else are they meant to get to and from the park or wherever, I guess, if the kids are young- but it's still deeply annoying and I'm not sure of the legalities of it.

So good to vent

Yeah but motorists kill people...

(Yes I know that has absolutely nothing got to do with what you said, its just the common answer to everything on this thread)

magicbastarder · 19-06-2020 11:36am

Shelga wrote: »

I don't understand all the bile aimed at joggers, who do everything they can to avoid people on the path

good god, as if there wasn't another direction this thread could be derailed by.

07Lapierre · 19-06-2020 11:51am

Shelga wrote: »

I found it! A thread where I can share my immense irritation at cyclists all over the footpaths these days. So selfish and inconsiderate. I am a pedestrian, a runner, a cyclist and a driver, and I don't understand all the bile aimed at joggers, who do everything they can to avoid people on the path, and are gone by in 1 second and take up barely any space.

Adult cyclists are all over the paths, everywhere you go- I swear it has increased tenfold since this pandemic started. Selfish morons.

I give a bit more leeway to the endless families I see with 3 kids on bikes and 2 parents, clogging up the entire footpath. How else are they meant to get to and from the park or wherever, I guess, if the kids are young- but it's still deeply annoying and I'm not sure of the legalities of it.

So good to vent

Agreed ... cycling on the pavement is selfish, inconsiderate, irritating and illegal. But in a lot of cases, it’s a lot safer than cycling on the road.. Cycling on the road is dangerous and stressful for cyclists and adds to motorists stress too. Not surprising that some People choose to cycle on the pavement.

Hurrache · 19-06-2020 11:52am

****ing joggers. State of them, they run so slow they just get in your way everywhere training for their mini marathons. It's a feckin 10k.

Runners however, acres of time for those guys, they're great.

AndrewJRenko · 19-06-2020 11:54am

Shelga wrote: »

Also when I am cycling, can honestly say it is incredibly rare that I would break a red light, but I would say 95% of cyclists simply do not give a **** about the rules of the road and think red lights do not apply to them. Gardai need to start enforcing on the spot €100 fines, would be glorious to see.

This will make your day so Shelga.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-5-000-on-the-spot-fines-issued-to-cyclists-1.3977141

How much Garda resources do you want to divert away from reducing the death toll on the roads caused by motorists to go chasing cyclists?

Shelga · 19-06-2020 12:02pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This will make your day so Shelga.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-5-000-on-the-spot-fines-issued-to-cyclists-1.3977141

How much Garda resources do you want to divert away from reducing the death toll on the roads caused by motorists to go chasing cyclists?

How would it divert any resources to have Gardai out on the beat actually enforce the law regarding cyclists breaking red lights? I'm not talking about having special SWAT team set up, with a special HQ on Store Street to rival MI5.

Thanks for sharing the article, great to see! As I said, I cycle every day to work myself, when things are normal, and it's just so frustrating to see cyclists who don't give a ****, sailing through the lights. Giving all of us a bad name. Already in this thread a guy has shared his story about how shaken up and depressed he was when he was driving and hit a cyclist who had broken a red light.

Do you or do you not think cyclists need to follow the rules of the road?

Hurrache · 19-06-2020 12:03pm

Shelga wrote: »

Also when I am cycling, can honestly say it is incredibly rare that I would break a red light, but I would say 95% of cyclists simply do not give a **** about the rules of the road and think red lights do not apply to them. Gardai need to start enforcing on the spot €100 fines, would be glorious to see.

Shelga wrote: »

How would it divert any resources to have Gardai out on the beat actually enforce the law regarding cyclists breaking red lights?

Hey Shelga, welcome to the thread.

Can I point out to you at the outset that you're wrong? It'll save a lot of time for all involved. I'll even point you back a couple of pages with how the gardai even say you're wrong when it comes to the number that gives a **** about red lights.

ewc78 · 19-06-2020 12:04pm

Hurrache wrote: »

****ing joggers. State of them, they run so slow they just get in your way everywhere training for their mini marathons. It's a feckin 10k.

Runners however, acres of time for those guys, they're great.

Probably the only thing you've posted that I actually agree with

ewc78 · 19-06-2020 12:06pm

Shelga wrote: »

How would it divert any resources to have Gardai out on the beat actually enforce the law regarding cyclists breaking red lights? I'm not talking about having special SWAT team set up, with a special HQ on Store Street to rival MI5.

Thanks for sharing the article, great to see! As I said, I cycle every day to work myself, when things are normal, and it's just so frustrating to see cyclists who don't give a ****, sailing through the lights. Giving all of us a bad name. Already in this thread a guy has shared his story about how shaken up and depressed he was when he was driving and hit a cyclist who had broken a red light.

Do you or do you not think cyclists need to follow the rules of the road?

Hi Shelga, did you know motorists kill people?
I have a feeling you are about to be told about it....a lot.

Hurrache · 19-06-2020 12:09pm

ewc78 wrote: »

Hi Shelga, did you know motorists kill people?
I have a feeling you are about to be told about it....a lot.

She can't be told next time Shelga is jogging, slowly is the implication, across a road with no high vis or helmet and is killed by a speeding maniacal motorists relishing the challenge of trying to get he/she to just push that bit harder, but Shelga just can't break into that run, and then is dead.

No use putting it on a gravestone.

Shelga · 19-06-2020 12:10pm

Haha, I read the first 4-5 pages but must confess, I have not read nearly 90 pages that describe how motorists kill people, good to know.

Don't get why everyone gets so tribal, most of us would be more than one thing from a list of: pedestrian, cyclist, driver, depending on the circumstance.

Hurrache · 19-06-2020 12:16pm

The problem is that the impression that over 90% of cyclists break lights is a fallacy, and yet keeps getting repeated.

Shelga · 19-06-2020 12:20pm

Hurrache wrote: »

The problem is that the impression that over 90% of cyclists break lights is a fallacy, and yet keeps getting repeated.

All I can say is that anecdotally, on a 8km each way cycle to work, I will easily see 10+ cyclists breaking a red light. I will not see 10+ cars breaking a red light.

I actually don't believe the survey that has been quoted here, and can't see a link to it, and it's contradicted by the TCD survey anyway.

What do cyclists breaking a red light have to do with motorists breaking a red light? It can be irritating on its own, without having to be linked back to the misdeeds of motorists.

Hurrache · 19-06-2020 12:26pm

I think I'll just start reading from page 1 again......

ewc78 · 19-06-2020 12:34pm

Hurrache wrote: »

I think I'll just start reading from page 1 again......

I'm going for a jog run

07Lapierre · 19-06-2020 12:42pm

Shelga wrote: »

All I can say is that anecdotally, on a 8km each way cycle to work, I will easily see 10+ cyclists breaking a red light. I will not see 10+ cars breaking a red light.

I actually don't believe the survey that has been quoted here, and can't see a link to it, and it's contradicted by the TCD survey anyway.

What do cyclists breaking a red light have to do with motorists breaking a red light? It can be irritating on its own, without having to be linked back to the misdeeds of motorists.

people breaking red lights is “irritating”? Personally I’d say it’s downright Dangerous!

LeinsterDub · 19-06-2020 1:02pm

Shelga wrote: »

All I can say is that anecdotally, on a 8km each way cycle to work, I will easily see 10+ cyclists breaking a red light. I will not see 10+ cars breaking a red light.

I actually don't believe the survey that has been quoted here, and can't see a link to it, and it's contradicted by the TCD survey anyway.

What do cyclists breaking a red light have to do with motorists breaking a red light? It can be irritating on its own, without having to be linked back to the misdeeds of motorists.

You need to pay more attention . Traffic lights in Dublin now mean

Green = go
Orange = speed up and continue go
Red = Prepare to stop but at least 3 more can still go

AndrewJRenko · 19-06-2020 1:12pm

Shelga wrote: »

All I can say is that anecdotally, on a 8km each way cycle to work, I will easily see 10+ cyclists breaking a red light. I will not see 10+ cars breaking a red light.

.

How many drivers do you see breaking the speed limit on your 8km cycle Shelga?

How many drivers do you see with a phone in their hand or on their lap?

AndrewJRenko · 19-06-2020 1:16pm

Shelga wrote: »

How would it divert any resources to have Gardai out on the beat actually enforce the law regarding cyclists breaking red lights? I'm not talking about having special SWAT team set up, with a special HQ on Store Street to rival MI5.

Thanks for sharing the article, great to see! As I said, I cycle every day to work myself, when things are normal, and it's just so frustrating to see cyclists who don't give a ****, sailing through the lights. Giving all of us a bad name. Already in this thread a guy has shared his story about how shaken up and depressed he was when he was driving and hit a cyclist who had broken a red light.

Do you or do you not think cyclists need to follow the rules of the road?

Every Garda hour spent chasing cyclists is an hour not spent reducing the death toll on the roads. We have finite Garda resources. If they are chasing cyclists, then they are not checking cars for speeding, jumping red lights, phone use, drink /drug driving and more.

Do the 98% of motorists that break urban speed limits in the RSA Speed Survey give the 2% of compliant motorists a bad name?

magicbastarder · 19-06-2020 1:18pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How many drivers do you see breaking the speed limit on your 8km cycle Shelga?

How many drivers do you see with a phone in their hand or on their lap?

Shelga - you have to understand, AndrewJRenko is a bot, an experimental one, so please bear with it while its creators tweak the code.

spookwoman · 19-06-2020 1:21pm

Saw 2 people cycling on the the path yesterday 2 abreast and then basically forced the pedestrian up against the wall as they passed.
Big problem I am seeing these days is no lights on the bikes at dusk, earphones and meandering all over the roads. Lot of new cyclists out that don't know how to control their bikes properly.

Pedestrians are killed by cyclists and the other way around as well.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/coroner-s-court/cyclist-died-after-collision-with-pedestrian-inquest-hears-1.3317745

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/10/man-dies-after-collision-between-cyclist-and-pedestrian-on-n24-in/

Shelga · 19-06-2020 1:55pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Every Garda hour spent chasing cyclists is an hour not spent reducing the death toll on the roads. We have finite Garda resources. If they are chasing cyclists, then they are not checking cars for speeding, jumping red lights, phone use, drink /drug driving and more.

Do the 98% of motorists that break urban speed limits in the RSA Speed Survey give the 2% of compliant motorists a bad name?

Do you get to decide which laws we are allowed to follow?

Shelga · 19-06-2020 1:56pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How many drivers do you see breaking the speed limit on your 8km cycle Shelga?

How many drivers do you see with a phone in their hand or on their lap?

What has this got to do with cyclists? I also see about 3 unleashed dogs on my cycle, should I be up in arms about that?

07Lapierre · 19-06-2020 2:05pm

spookwoman wrote: »

Saw 2 people cycling on the the path yesterday 2 abreast and then basically forced the pedestrian up against the wall as they passed.
Big problem I am seeing these days is no lights on the bikes at dusk, earphones and meandering all over the roads. Lot of new cyclists out that don't know how to control their bikes properly.

Pedestrians are killed by cyclists and the other way around as well.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/coroner-s-court/cyclist-died-after-collision-with-pedestrian-inquest-hears-1.3317745

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/10/man-dies-after-collision-between-cyclist-and-pedestrian-on-n24-in/

Two terrible tragedies (years apart) alright. There were two people killed in a RTA last weekend. Sad fact is there will be more deaths on our roads before the year is over.

07Lapierre · 19-06-2020 2:07pm

Shelga wrote: »

What has this got to do with cyclists? I also see about 3 unleashed dogs on my cycle, should I be up in arms about that?

Only if they’re on bikes on the pavement!

07Lapierre · 19-06-2020 2:14pm

Shelga wrote: »

Do you get to decide which laws we are allowed to follow?

We don’t, but the Gardai do. The Gardai have clearly decided to dedicate their time and energy to combat motoring offensives for obvious reasons.

magicbastarder · 19-06-2020 2:46pm

spookwoman wrote: »

Pedestrians are killed by cyclists and the other way around as well.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/coroner-s-court/cyclist-died-after-collision-with-pedestrian-inquest-hears-1.3317745

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/10/man-dies-after-collision-between-cyclist-and-pedestrian-on-n24-in/

thankfully, this is incredibly rare; there is no inquest verdict i'm aware of from the second case above which would throw light on what happened, but the only case i'm aware of where the cyclist was found responsible dates from either 2002 or 2003.

AndrewJRenko · 19-06-2020 3:07pm

Shelga wrote: »

What has this got to do with cyclists? I also see about 3 unleashed dogs on my cycle, should I be up in arms about that?

You brought up the comparison with motorists yourself, so don't start moaning when the findings don't suit you.

"All I can say is that anecdotally, on a 8km each way cycle to work, I will easily see 10+ cyclists breaking a red light. I will not see 10+ cars breaking a red light."

Thelonious Monk · 19-06-2020 3:18pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

According to "Connoroconner" in the comments...cycling on the pavement is not illegal? Damn! All these years cycling on the road when I could have been terrorising peds on the pavement!

https://www.thejournal.ie/trinity-college-request-dublin-city-council-cycling-walking-5126303-Jun2020/

One of the commenters is giving out that cyclists aren't using the excellent cycling facilities in Howth, and being upvoted for it. I'm unaware of any cycling lanes in Howth, unless she means the line of paint when you're coming into the village?!

magicbastarder · 19-06-2020 3:25pm

the cycle lane from sutton village to howth village is unusually narrow for quite a distance along it.

Thelonious Monk · 19-06-2020 3:31pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

unfortunately there are still some bizarre examples of planning being granted; this is a recently completed small estate (10 houses) i pass occasionally on the bike, and it's a couple of km from the nearest town, no paths of any description provided (and they'd be economically unviable anyway). i just don't get the notion of wanting to live in the countryside, while living in a housing estate?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4703172,-6.3758863,243m/data=!3m1!1e3

Why are things like that given planning permission? Ridiculous, just makes more and more car reliance and isolated children.

Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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