Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

Montage of Feck · 13-10-2019 9:34am

Panthro wrote: »

They're hardly Fcukin Mexican

Maybe south of the border, :rolleyes::pac:.

TheW1zard · 13-10-2019 9:42am

Republic of Irish, Northern Irish, both Irish!
They are from Ireland.

What am I missing?

Oh and theyre part of the UK. NI is not Britain obviously. Britain is an Island.

#primaryschoolgeography

13-10-2019 9:48am

Ralphyroo wrote: »

I consider anyone born on the island of Ireland to be Irish

But they are not.
Children born in the Republic are not automatically Irish, so I don't know why someone born in the North should have more rights to be Irish than someone born here.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 13-10-2019 10:01am

Well people from Dublin and Cork have a lot more in common with someone from west Belfast than a Cockney has with someone from east Belfast. So Unionists are fully entitled to identify as British, but they are still very much Irish people.

Nobody born on the island of Ireland has any right to claim they are 'more Irish' simply because they were born in the south of the country.
You won't find any American, European or Chinese person making a distinction between an Irish person born in the west of Ireland or in the north of Ireland.

Invisibleman · 13-10-2019 10:03am

If you were born on the island of Ireland you are Irish, simple as that.

13-10-2019 10:11am

Invisibleman wrote: »

If you were born on the island of Ireland you are Irish, simple as that.

Not true though

rockatansky · 13-10-2019 10:16am

Invisibleman wrote: »

If you were born on the island of Ireland you are Irish, simple as that.

No, it is not that simple.

That's the same as everyone born in NI is Brittish. It's wrong.

Some people just don't want to acknowledge the realities of the Northen Ireland. Their life is just easier if they just pigeon hole the entire population and not even entertain the complexities of the situation* (said in a nordy accent).

We've all heard the attitude from some people that they'd happily cut the 6 counties off the island and let it float away just so they don't have to hear about it. Some on here no doubt would be of this opinion.

Invisibleman · 13-10-2019 10:18am

rockatansky wrote: »

No, it is not that simple.

That's the same as everyone born in NI is Brittish. It's wrong.

Some people just don't want to acknowledge the realities of the Northen Ireland. Their life is just easier if they just pigeon hole the entire population and not even entertain it.

We've all heard the attitude from some people that they'd happily cut the 6 counties off the island and let it float away just so they don't have to hear about it. Some on here no doubt would be of this opinion.

Some people say they are the other gender, when clearly they are not, it’s the same thing.You can put make up on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 10:19am

Very strange question in the opening post IMO.

Of course they are Irish. The Irish state recognise them as Irish. They are automatically entitled to both Irish and British passports. It's not that they just identify as Irish. Legally they are Irish.

Ralphyroo · 13-10-2019 10:20am

bubblypop wrote: »

Ralphyroo wrote: »

I consider anyone born on the island of Ireland to be Irish

But they are not.
Children born in the Republic are not automatically Irish, so I don't know why someone born in the North should have more rights to be Irish than someone born here.

Fair enough I phrased that badly, raised on the island of Ireland then

Ironicname · 13-10-2019 10:22am

Invisibleman wrote:

If you were born on the island of Ireland you are Irish, simple as that.

Why? They are two different countries on the same land mass. Are people born in Cork actually from Dublin? If not why not? Do borders mean anything?

Invisibleman wrote:

Some people say they are the other gender, when clearly they are not, itâ€™s the same thing.You can put make up on a pig, but itâ€™s still a pig.

I agree. But it's a sexy pig.

rockatansky · 13-10-2019 10:23am

Invisibleman wrote: »

Some people say they are the other gender, when clearly they are not, it’s the same thing.You can put make up on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

No, it's not the same thing. However the fact you would even use that comparion just confirms my point about not willing to acknowledge the status the North has.

Make up on a pig, ffs.

I'm done here.

pinksoir · 13-10-2019 10:26am

Citizenship/nationality is a legal status granted by the State. So yes, they are Irish if they are legally entitled to Irish citizenship. In fact, non resident Irish as they live in the UK. Just like the many other Irish people living abroad.

All this talk of 'real Irish' is just 'no true Scotsman' territory. Nonsense. It's so subjective as to be worthless.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 10:29am

mfceiling wrote:

Not being a smart arse but is the flag not green white and orange?

Of course you are right.
Green for Ireland, orange for the unionists and white for the peace between the two communities. This is primary school stuff.

Not a football fan but I believe green white & gold are the Irish soccer squad colours. Definitely not the Irish flag

suicide_circus · 13-10-2019 10:30am

They are 100% Irish.

and 100% British.

facehugger99 · 13-10-2019 10:37am

If they really wanted to be Irish, I'd imagine a 30 minute drive down the road would do it.

Most of them continue to live in the UK because they have it much more comfortable up there than they'd have it down here.

While they like to complain, being British citizens suits them just fine financially- and it suits us even better tbh.

Long may it continue.

13-10-2019 10:40am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not a football fan but I believe green white & gold are the Irish soccer squad colours. Definitely not the Irish flag

There has been some orange in the jerseys, certainly not gold. No idea where you got that from.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 10:58am

Deleted User wrote:

There has been some orange in the jerseys, certainly not gold. No idea where you got that from.

I did say that I wasn't a football fan. I was guessing as to where people think the gold came from. Its never been in the Irish flag & the Irish flag has nothing to do with the pope or the Vatican as claimed by another poster.

The Irish flag is an aspersion of the peace between unionists and nationalist. A colour carefully selected to represent each tradition and white placed between these two traditions. Its shocking for me to think people waving our flag or wearing its colours might not have a clue what they are holding in their hands.

looksee · 13-10-2019 11:01am

It is arguable that they are not British under any circumstances. Britain is England and Wales, Great Britain includes Scotland (and is nothing to do with Brits' opinion of themselves) and Northern Ireland is tacked on to make them the UK.

However using the term British as shorthand for a citizen of the UK then they are Irish because they are born on the island of Ireland and British because that particular bit of the island is under the government of the UK. Some of them would prefer it to stay that way and deny their Irishness. You can deny things over which you have a choice, being Irish by being born of Irish parents and resident on the island of Ireland can't be denied. All or any of this does not influence whether you are a NI Nationalist, or hold a UK passport, that is entirely a choice.

You can't on the one hand look for a united Ireland while on the other despising the Unionists to the extent of denying their Irishness and therefore suggesting that Northern Ireland is not Ireland.

Its all very similar to the argument about whether these islands are the British Isles or the North Atlantic Archipelago - it depends on whether you are talking geographically or politically, and how invested you are.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 11:07am

I do agree with the above post but it is worth remembering that Ireland, North and South are part of the British Isles.

13-10-2019 11:10am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I do agree with the above post but it is worth remembering that Ireland, North and South are part of the British Isles.

Ah, popcorn time. Can hear it popping in the saucepan. Back in a mo

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 11:18am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah, popcorn time. Can hear it popping in the saucepan. Back in a mo

The British Isles is a geography thing and not a political thing. Ireland is part of the British Isles. Southern Ireland isn't part of Great Britain.

http://projectbritain.com/britain/britishisles.htm

facehugger99 · 13-10-2019 11:25am

The labelling of people is a very anachronistic practice that just fuels sectarian hatred up there.

People from NI should describe themselves as Northern Irish and we shouldn't be facilitating this dual-nationality nonsense - I suppose it was the price we had to pay for buy-in to the Good Friday agreement, but in the long-term it would be better for the Nationalists up there to accept that unification with us is unaffordable, impractical and will never happen. In that context, it might be better to remove the right for them to claim Irish passports. It's something I'd like to see considered in the future.

13-10-2019 11:25am

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I don't really care what southerners think, all I know is my surname is O'Neill and I live in a townland with an Irish name, if I'm not Irish then I'm sure as hell more Gaelic than some clown from the pale. As I've got older I don't really pay much attention to nationality anyway, having the same passport doesn't mean I have anything else in common with the other human, the people I view as "my own" are the ugly short autistic men of this world whether they be from Cork or China.

Southerners? The pale?

You see, there’s the kind of thinking that has plenty of people from the Republic of Ireland looking at the steaming hot mess that is NI republicans and nationalism and wanting no part of it.

MPFGLB · 13-10-2019 11:26am

There are Americans who never set foot in Ireland who consider themselves Irish
Probably a few Chinese too who feel the same way

For me Northern Ireland's 6 counties is as Irish as say Donegal or Galway

If NI people want to remain British that is fine too

I don't think any insular bodies whose only concern is adding the halfpenny to the pence should dictate who the people of Northern Ireland identify as or aspire to being

I'm sure neither Padraig Pearce nor James Connelly when facing certain death in the GPO had abacus with them calculating how much tax a united Ireland would cost

BTW went to Northern Ireland on holiday for the first time 2 years ago.
Didn't go sooner becasue of the troubles and the delayed feeling of not being wanted if from the south and also was off seeing the world.

Had a great time ...lovely place and met some really great honest people

Went back with a load of English friends who also wanted to go there for some time but again had residual fear of not being wanted.

The media needs to do more to promote the better side of NI

13-10-2019 11:50am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The British Isles is a geography thing and not a political thing. Ireland is part of the British Isles. Southern Ireland isn't part of Great Britain.

http://projectbritain.com/britain/britishisles.htm

It's specifically not taught in Irish geography. Similarly The Falklands, are not called such by Spanish speaking countries.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 11:56am

Deleted User wrote:

It's specifically not taught in Irish geography. Similarly The Falklands, are not called such by Spanish speaking countries.

I was taught about the British Isles in primary school in the 70s. We are part of the British Isles its a fact in the same way that we are part of Europe. Its geography. These facts can't be changed. British Isles & Great Britain are two different things

alastair · 13-10-2019 12:07pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I was taught about the British Isles in primary school in the 70s. We are part of the British Isles its a fact in the same way that we are part of Europe. Its geography. These facts can't be changed. British Isles & Great Britain are two different things

The fact is that the terminology can be changed, and has been changed in Irish geography textbooks. In 2007.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 12:11pm

alastair wrote:

The fact is that the terminology can be changed, and has been changed in Irish geography textbooks. In 2007.

It's still the British Isles though. Calling a potato an apple doesn't make it an apple.

alastair · 13-10-2019 12:13pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's still the British Isles though. Calling a potato an apple doesn't make it an apple.

If you rename something it has a different name. That’s how terminology works. The islands remain unchanged, but the old terminology is redundant.

So, Take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Oh Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

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