Green senator calls for irish gun liscensing to be over hauled.

Grizzly 45 · 21-03-2019 9:45pm #1

Putting this as a new thread, rather in the OT thread,as some might miss this.
I knew it!! Hardly are the bodies in their graves,it would take some politician no time to be dancing on their graves globally calling for more gun bans or "commonsense gun control." And sure enough we have an Irish GREEN or Water melon[Thin green skin,Commie red inside with black brown pips at the core] senator calling for Irish gun laws to be tightened. Green Party Senator Grace O’Sullivan take a bow..:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Maybe our gun orgs and ourselves might like to let her know our views??

ttps://www.joe.ie/news/ireland-gun-laws-christchurch-shootings-662718?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onsite_share&fbclid=IwAR0qucGGGR6Gd-fuWzy2HRkF1uDKuXLlg7xwxOZfw1KS8dSddWTJiLenl7E

grace.osullivan@oireachtas.ie
(01) 618 3774
grace.osullivan@oireachtas.ie

Cass · 21-03-2019 9:53pm

M'eh, virtual signalling. It'll come to nothing.

Don't be surprised to see her run for TD to cushion that Senator pension in the next General Election.

Chiparus · 21-03-2019 10:33pm

She ran for MEP and TD previously.

thermo · 21-03-2019 10:36pm

She should be compelled to apply for and get a restricted firearm by the book or face 10 years forced labor in a seal pup slaughterhouse. See how easy it is to get a legal firearm :eek:

elperello · 21-03-2019 10:39pm

I know Grace O'Sullivan.

She is a genuine decent person with a lifetime of commitment to the environment behind her.

If you want to argue against her point of view please do so based on the issue not common abuse.

tayto lover · 21-03-2019 10:45pm

Every time the Greens suggest anything it costs the taxpayer.
Pay no heed to her.

Chiparus · 21-03-2019 10:45pm

elperello wrote: »

I know Grace O'Sullivan.

She is a genuine decent person with a lifetime of commitment to the environment behind her.

If you want to argue against her point of view please do so based on the issue not common abuse.

Being a member of the "Greens" and "genuine" are mutually exclusive,
c.f. backing of bertie, backing of Wllie o"Dea, obstruction of the donegal south by- election etc, etc.

The pigeon man · 21-03-2019 11:00pm

The usual rubbish from the green party. Once they have taken your guns they'll try take your diesel jeep and put you on your bicycle. They'll then put out your open fire and build windmills on your land instead.

And you'll be forced to submit to all of these changes for the "environment" and "public safety".

Don't vote for them because they are the worst enemy of any country dweller.

scwazrh · 21-03-2019 11:02pm

If we are going to start banning things we don’t need , I suggest we start with the Green Party

slavetothegrind · 21-03-2019 11:03pm

Yeah ban them all, the legal ones, and when you are done and the firearm crime rate is the same then what?

Oh and it's moot point.

Sparks · 21-03-2019 11:04pm

elperello wrote: »

I know Grace O'Sullivan.
She is a genuine decent person with a lifetime of commitment to the environment behind her.
If you want to argue against her point of view please do so based on the issue not common abuse.

Sure. She doesn't know the law here and just told 200,000 people, each of whom has been personally vetted and approved by a garda superintendent, that they are a risk to the public despite a safety record stretching back several hundred years that's better than the GAA can muster for one season. She's doing this as a political stunt, and has stated that she thinks we're mentally unstable.

Have you any other questions about the issue?

elperello · 21-03-2019 11:07pm

https://www.greenparty.ie/ireland-needs-to-examine-gun-laws-in-wake-of-new-zealand-tragedy-greens/?fbclid=IwAR0UHNxJfzCjRCuq3ceARin8bnUgnOW6wA_NvS30uzYaUUFFabDgIJYok-k

Nobody calling for a ban on guns here.

98q76e12hrflnk · 21-03-2019 11:10pm

Such a none issue but sure what else would the useless party be in the news for.

slavetothegrind · 21-03-2019 11:10pm

Grace O Sullivan may indeed be a great person but the jumping on the bandwagon of current events does not lend her much credibility.
This kind of rubbish to get noticed is unoriginal. If you want to help look into firearms licencing and policing and see if you can find any flaws, but i don't think that boat will be rocked by Grace somehow as she has moved on to the next newscycle....

Uinseann_16 · 21-03-2019 11:29pm

Mr.H wrote: »

People do not need guns so i dont see an issue. Ban em all. We dont have the same issues as america but like them we do not need guns so your point is mute.

You must be new here, this is the shooting forum.... "We don't need guns" no perhaps not but you also don't need a car or phone or Internet or electricity these items are non essential though make life much easier guns are tools if you have a farm you might want one to keep an Sionnach Rua away from your livestock , prevent damage to crops from Deer,crows,pigeons etc.. or your one of the many who shoot for a hobby and do these jobs for farmers,
Perhaps your an Olympian hopeful shooting one of the many disciplines that use firearms representing your country , or a target shooter enjoying shooting competitions ,shooting is one of the few sports everyone is on a level playing field it doesn't matter your gender,color,Creed, abilities or whatever there's place for everyone in shooting sports can you say the same about many other sports?
Lastly it's about personal freedoms , any person going about their legal hobby should not be hounded because of incidents that have happened half way across the world, as firearms owners in this country we give up some of our freedoms and rights in order to own firearms. We give up our right to privacy as we have to allow Gardai on demand access to our medical records homes and personal information in general. We are one of the most vetted and scrutinized groups of people in this country and have an immaculate safety record better than that of the GAA. Shooting sports are probably the safest sports you can take up

People will always do unspeakable acts to one another there's is nothing we can do to change human nature but banning firearms simple because you are too narrow minded to look at the people who use firearms for good purposes legally and safety .
If people wish to do damage to one another there are easier ways to do it with a van or IED just look back to the troubles plenty of damage was done with scrounged together explosives.
What gives you the right to prevent me from owning a firearm simply because you feel like it?

If you banned alcohol and cigarettes you would save thousands of lives from diseases wait that wouldn't work would it? Because banning things doesn't work it only stops those who are honest and good from enjoying them.
Your point is mute.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Cass · 21-03-2019 11:33pm

Chiparus wrote: »

She ran for MEP and TD previously.

HA.

Sparks · 21-03-2019 11:39pm

elperello wrote: »

https://www.greenparty.ie/ireland-needs-to-examine-gun-laws-in-wake-of-new-zealand-tragedy-greens/?fbclid=IwAR0UHNxJfzCjRCuq3ceARin8bnUgnOW6wA_NvS30uzYaUUFFabDgIJYok-k

Nobody calling for a ban on guns here.

Except for the Green Party by calling to remove whole classes of licences that exist to ensure that people who are coming into the sport are trained properly.

We currently have the fourth-lowest per capita rate of firearms ownership in the EU, one of the best safety records of any sport, some of the most restrictive sets of firearms legislation in the world, but the Green Party is now spreading nonsense like "license applicants are currently not required to provide medical reports" (really? we don't have medical confidentiality and not only can the Gardai read our medical files without notice or permission, they can do so *at any time, as many times as they want*). And " regulations around adults obtaining gun licences and certificates are also, in my belief, too lax" - which is nice for the Senator, but since she's just demonstrated that she doesn't know the law, is pretty meaningless.

And she wants to see a review of the current requirements for psychiatric assessment to be carried out. Now, given that you carry out a psychiatric assessment after you know someone has a mental health problem and not before and that the law states you cannot issue a firearms licence under the circumstances that would trigger such an assessment, that review would be deeply confused from the get-go. Not to mention, the current requirements came in from the Abbeylara Tribunal, so she's declaring that she doesn't trust the Tribunal's findings, because our current requirements are their recommendations.

Then she wants to see "see up-to-date figures around the current levels of private, legally held firearms per head of population" which means she's not reading the parlimentary questions or the minutes from the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice because if she was, she'd know those figures.

Do you think there's more to discuss about the issue here?

elperello · 21-03-2019 11:47pm

Sparks wrote: »

Except for the Green Party by calling to remove whole classes of licences that exist to ensure that people who are coming into the sport are trained properly.

We currently have the fourth-lowest per capita rate of firearms ownership in the EU, one of the best safety records of any sport, some of the most restrictive sets of firearms legislation in the world, but the Green Party is now spreading nonsense like "license applicants are currently not required to provide medical reports" (really? we don't have medical confidentiality and not only can the Gardai read our medical files without notice or permission, they can do so *at any time, as many times as they want*). And " regulations around adults obtaining gun licences and certificates are also, in my belief, too lax" - which is nice for the Senator, but since she's just demonstrated that she doesn't know the law, is pretty meaningless.

And she wants to see a review of the current requirements for psychiatric assessment to be carried out. Now, given that you carry out a psychiatric assessment after you know someone has a mental health problem and not before and that the law states you cannot issue a firearms licence under the circumstances that would trigger such an assessment, that review would be deeply confused from the get-go. Not to mention, the current requirements came in from the Abbeylara Tribunal, so she's declaring that she doesn't trust the Tribunal's findings, because our current requirements are their recommendations.

Then she wants to see "see up-to-date figures around the current levels of private, legally held firearms per head of population" which means she's not reading the parlimentary questions or the minutes from the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice because if she was, she'd know those figures.

Do you think there's more to discuss about the issue here?

Thank you, at least you have read and understood what the GP is saying.

Just to get it straight I'm not supporting the Green Party on this issue nor am I a member of GP. I own two guns myself.

I was responding to the comments made earlier and pointing out that Grace O'Sullivan is a decent honourable person. If Ireland had more like her we would be better off.

Sparks · 21-03-2019 11:51pm

I can't square the "decent honourable" description with calling for sweeping changes in a law she obviously does not understand, calling a swathe of people she doesn't know mentally unstable and declaring them a danger to the public and the peace, demonstrating that she didn't do the basic background research and is therefore literally using the murders of 50 people by a white supremacist opportunistically to drive up her profile in the media.

That description and those actions are mutually exclusive.

elperello · 21-03-2019 11:54pm

Sparks wrote: »

I can't square the "decent honourable" description with calling for sweeping changes in a law she obviously does not understand, calling a swathe of people she doesn't know mentally unstable and declaring them a danger to the public and the peace, demonstrating that she didn't do the basic background research and is therefore literally using the murders of 50 people by a white supremacist opportunistically to drive up her profile in the media.

That description and those actions are mutually exclusive.

Well you are entitled to hold that opinion.
I stand over my description of someone I know and have time for.

gctest50 · 21-03-2019 11:57pm

Typical noisy greenpeace crap, "failed" at roundup the other day so off to whine about the next thing they don't understand

https://amp.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/safety-of-roundup-weedkiller-defended-after-us-jury-ruled-that-it-causes-cancer-37936209.html

Scum, every single one of them

slavetothegrind · 22-03-2019 12:01am

elperello wrote: »

Well you are entitled to hold that opinion.
I stand over my description of someone I know and have time for.

Would you mind asking her to look at this thread and maybe reply?

Sparks · 22-03-2019 12:04am

elperello wrote: »

Well you are entitled to hold that opinion.
I stand over my description of someone I know and have time for.

If you know her and have time for her, maybe sit down with her and point out the problems with her statements?

Jurgen Klopp · 22-03-2019 12:04am

I thought the Greens would want to get their DNA testing of random dog ****e proposal of the ground first

elperello · 22-03-2019 12:05am

slavetothegrind wrote: »

Would you mind asking her to look at this thread and maybe reply?

Yes that would be a great move by a politician

Sparks · 22-03-2019 12:06am

elperello wrote: »

Yes that would be a great move by a politician

Well, she's happily posting on Twitter so it's hardly like she's allergic to the internet...

elperello · 22-03-2019 12:08am

Sparks wrote: »

Well, she's happily posting on Twitter so it's hardly like she's allergic to the internet...

Well go over to Twitter and have a chat or send an email.
You don't seriously trust me an anonymous poster to put forward your point of view.

Cass · 22-03-2019 12:11am

elperello wrote: »

I know Grace O'Sullivan.

She is a genuine decent person with a lifetime of commitment to the environment behind her.

And what experience has she with firearms, legislation on firearms, knowledge of firearms, licensing, etc?

None i'd imagine. So in situations like that it is better to look the fool and remain silent than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

If you want to argue against her point of view please do so based on the issue not common abuse.

Fair point so here goes

She says our gun laws are too lax. Does she know all 19 Acts, 63 Statutory Instruments and 2 EU directives on firearms that currently legislate for firearms in the country?
She says a "child" (won't someone think of the children :rolleyes:) as young as 14 can get a firearm. She doesn't, but the article does, go on to say that it's a training license which can only be gotten with the consent of the parents/guardian and only used by a currently licensed person over the age of 18, and the firearm is never left with the child and the child can never have/store the firearm. IOW they never have it unsupervised, EVER.
There are some 240,000 (guess-timate) firearms owned by approx 160,000 people in the country. That is an ownership rate of 3%. One of the lowest in the world where firearm(s) can be owned by civilians/citizens.
Each firearm must be separately licensed, there is NOT a "one size fits all" type license
When we apply for a firearm, each and every individual firearm, we are subject to:
- 3 month background check/wait time
- Sign away our ability to refuse a check/search of our homes
- Sign away confidentiality of Doctors/medical history
- Have character referees
- Have no criminal convictions
- Have a good reason for the firearm (cannot just have one because you want it)
- Meet umpteen conditions on land ownership, membership of an authorised range, and only shoot the firearm there
- Meet some of the highest, and most expensive, conditions for storage of firearms at our homes
We cannot have centrefire pistols, anymore
Semi auto rifles number about 200 - 250 (about 0.1% of the total firearms owned in the state) and they are subject to the checks above, as well as higher checks and home security measures as they are classed as restricted firearms)
We have NO concealed carry "general" laws in Ireland (they can be gotten, but only directly by the Minister and only when there is a defined and substantial threat to your life)
We have NO right to keep and bear arms laws (IOW no 2nd amendment)
We have NO self defense reason for getting a firearm (you cannot get a gun for home defense)

She mentions about mental health checks. This idea was floated not only here but in other countries and it was dismissed as unworkable. NO professional would sign a piece of paper declaring someone safe for life to own a firearm after one, 5 or even 10 sessions. Psychological assessments can last a lifetime and the workload, lack of professionals to carry it out and monumental costs would be prohibitive.

Shooting sports in Ireland, as Sparks mentioned above, is the oldest sport in the country, predating the GAA and has the safest, SELF IMPOSED/POLICED, record of any sport.

A lunatic will always find a way. Or do i need remind the Senator or yourself about these:

Nice Truck attack, France - Truck used
Bourke Street attack in Australia - Knife used
Bali - Bomb
Manchester arena - Suicide bomb
London Bridge attack - Knife and car used
Belgium - bomb
Finsbury park - Van used
Beheading of Private Lee Rigsby london - knife used
Boston Marathon - bomb
Saint pertersburg - bomb
Toronto car attack - Car
Metrojet Flight 9268 - bomb
Ataturk airport attack - bomb and gun
New York truck attack - Truck
Brighton Seige - Shotgun
Queanbeyan stabbing attack - knives
Minto stabbing attack - Knives
2014 Endeavour Hills stabbings - knives
Madrid train attack - bombs
London (7/7) - bombs

If that is too "far away" let get closer to home. In the last three years there have been mulitple shootings, stabbings, arson attacks in Ireland. Some are by foreign nationals and most are "home grown" that simply want to kill each other. Like the Regency hotel in 2017. Criminals dressed as cops, with AK47s (illegal to own in Ireland) shooting up the place.

So tell me how stricter gun control would have stopped that shooting. How about the one in Dublin last week or Dundalk for that matter? How about the knife attacks in Louth last year by the foreign national?

There are laws that say all those actions were illegal and the items used are illegal yet still they exist, and still they are used. As was said above drugs are illegal and yet they are rampant not only on our streets but in our jails. So if an illegal substance can get into a secure place like a jail is your answer to bring in more laws or effectively enforce the existing ones?

What can more gun laws do to stop any of this?

Sparks · 22-03-2019 12:12am

I did; no response.
And I don't expect you to put forward my view; I don't even know if you really know her. But if you do, and you own firearms, she's talking about you and you should know enough about how we govern them in Ireland to point out where she's wrong. I'm suggesting that if those are true, maybe you should talk to her.

gctest50 · 22-03-2019 12:14am

Your ex-greenpeace one ?

Same greenpeace sent their Rainbow Warrior ship to run up on a beach in Bangladesh to be cut up ?

I'm sure there was more eco-friendly ways of seeing it off

I suppose they needed the few bob they got for weighing it in since their idiot employee bet millions against the price of the euro - then tried and failed to get out of the contracts lol

elperello · 22-03-2019 12:22am

Sparks wrote: »

I did; no response.
And I don't expect you to put forward my view; I don't even know if you really know her. But if you do, and you own firearms, she's talking about you and you should know enough about how we govern them in Ireland to point out where she's wrong. I'm suggesting that if those are true, maybe you should talk to her.

Maybe a lot of traffic on that account tonight.
I don't post exaggeration or untruth on here.
I am not the slightest bit worried about anything the GP may say affecting my gun ownership.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Green senator calls for irish gun liscensing to be over hauled.

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