Green senator calls for irish gun liscensing to be over hauled.

Birdnuts

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Still shows there are 58K worth of loopers out there who would vote for them.And how many kids who have been brainwashed with global warming and "Socialism is cool" nonsense are coming up to legal voting age this year?? I fear like weeds,if untreaed ,they will steadily grow a foothold.

The vast majority of that vote is by D4 types who know little of the world beyond the M50.

feartuath

Remember these green clowns trying to ban the Ward Union when deer poaching was rampant around the country.
Their idiot of a candidate in Clare tried to blame foot and mount disease on intensive farming, when the greens were decimated he tried to get a nomination from fine fail.

Wait untill those students who were protesting in Dublin recently on environmental issues start paying tax thay won't be so slow so protest.

Green Clowns

kowloon

If they kept to environmental issues it would be a non-issue, I'd bet having a clean environment is something most hunters would be in favour of, bio-degradeable shotgun shell/wads are the kind of thing they should be talking about.

mshayeb

elperello wrote: »

I know Grace O'Sullivan.

She is a genuine decent person with a lifetime of commitment to the environment behind her.

If you want to argue against her point of view please do so based on the issue not common abuse.

Nothing honourable about grave dancing. Defiantly nothing decent about scare tactics and stunts like this just to secure some votes via fear. And no commitment in making such statements if with zero fact checking

That what she did that's how far-right get things done she is learning from them

Grizzly 45

feartuath wrote: »

Their idiot of a candidate in Clare tried to blame foot and mount disease on intensive farming when the greens were decimated he tried to get a nomination from fine fail.

That Dutch guy Gerben Unk?? His latest stunt has been to form an animal rights party here in Limerick,which launched on FB and in the Castletroy parks hotel a fortnight ago.All the usual nonsense. Rights for animals, and ban, ban, ban everything to do with animal "abuse".
He locks onto every environmental issue around Clare and Limerick and has been a no-hoper for God knows how long.

Grizzly 45

Wrote a reply to the article in Joe.ie by the authors/editors invitation. Wont publish it as it is a "personal attack on Sen O Sullivan":rolleyes:

Two sentences that could be edited out, by an "editor" which is what his job is in the first place... Or ask the author to reconsider the paragraph and drop or rewrite the paragraph,all which I could and would happily have done.

OR is it that JOE.ie is another Soyboy latte sucking progressive Beta male website that can't handle the facts and truth that go against its agenda, like its competition, the advanced students' college rag online the journal.ie??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Nekarsulm

Had a look there, and it seems that there is no option to comment on the article now.

The pigeon man

Unfortunately Ireland is now a place where we base our policies and opinions on emotion and the sensitivity of others.

Priority should be given to facts and practically of some of these policies that are suggested.

judestynes

elperello wrote: »

I know Grace O'Sullivan.

She is a genuine decent person with a lifetime of commitment to the environment behind her.

If you want to argue against her point of view please do so based on the issue not common abuse.

The issue is she is voicing an opinion on a topic of which she knows very little. Before voicing her opinion she should get input from both communities not just the uninformed.

Sparks

From the Parlimentary Questions thread:

Tuesday March 26 2019

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
561. To ask the Tiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to review firearms licensing regulations in view of the recent tragedy in New Zealand, particularly in relation to regulations that allow for children over 14 years of age to possess firearms. [13905/19]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)

I wish to advise the Deputy that there are stringent controls under Irish legislation on the issue of firearm certificates by An Garda Sh and the conditions under which firearms can be held. There are severe penalties in place for firearm offences under the Firearms Acts.

Every application for a firearm certificate is considered on its individual merits and an application cannot be granted by a Garda Superintendent unless certain conditions, set out in law, are met. These include, amongst others, that the person can be permitted to possess a firearm without danger to the public safety and that the person has a good reason for requiring the firearm.

New conditions regarding an application were introduced under the Criminal Justice Act 2006. These conditions include the requirement of applicants to provide two referees to attest to their character, and also a requirement on each applicant to provide written consent for an issuing officer to make any enquiries in relation to the applicant’s medical history from a health professional.

Certain firearms are “restricted” under Irish legislation (e.g. such as large calibre handguns) and these attract additional conditions to be met over and above the standard requirements. These conditions include that the applicant has demonstrated that the firearm is the only type of firearm that is appropriate for the purpose for which it is required. Decisions on restricted firearms are made by a Garda Chief Superintendent.

In accordance with Section 2A of the Firearms Act, 1925, as amended, a person over 14 years of age can apply for a firearms training certificate. Such a certificate authorises the person to possess a firearm only while carrying and using the firearm for hunting or target shooting and under the supervision of a specified person over 18 years of age who holds a firearms certificate in respect of the firearm concerned. The Garda Sh deciding officer in any individual case may impose other conditions in the interests of public safety and security. An application for a training certificate, where the applicant is under 16 years of age, shall be accompanied by the written consent of the applicant's parent or guardian. Furthermore, Paragraph 8 of Statutory Instrument 493 of 2010: EC (Acquisition and Possession of Weapons and Ammunition) (Amendment) Regulations, provides that it shall not be lawful for any person to sell a firearm to which EU Firearms Directives apply to a person under 18 years of age.

The legislation also provides for the revocation of a firearms certificate, if the conditions which applied to the grant of the firearm in the first instance are no longer met.

A substantial review of firearms licensing, including consultation with the public, stakeholders and the relevant Oireachtas Committee, was undertaken in recent years. A number of measures identified as a result of this review are being progressed by my Department. These include a ban on new licences for semi automatic centre fire rifles and the establishment of a Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority. The primary function of the Authority will be to determine, on the basis of an objective assessment of all the issues, with safety of the public being paramount, whether particular forms of firearms may be licensed in the State, whether there should be any limit on the number of such firearms and what safety conditions might properly be applied to their licensing.

In accordance with Section 3E of the Firearms Act 1925, as amended, the Garda Commissioner conducts an annual review of the operation of the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2009. This report is laid before each House of the Oireachtas.

The legislation regarding the regulation of firearm licensing continues to be reviewed on an ongoing basis.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
562. To ask the Tiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to review the regulations on the number of firearms a person can own. [13906/19]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)

I wish to advise the Deputy that there are stringent controls under Irish legislation on the issue of firearm certificates by An Garda Sh and the conditions under which firearms can be held. There are also severe penalties in place for firearms offences under the Firearms Acts.

While there is nothing in law that specifically limits the number of firearms a person can own, a person must apply to An Garda Sh for a firearm certificate in respect of each individual firearm they wish to possess. Each application is assessed on its merits in accordance with law.

The conditions that an applicant for a firearm certificate must satisfy include:

- The individual has a good reason for requiring the firearm;

- The individual can be permitted to possess, use and carry the firearm without danger to the public safety or security or the peace;

- The individual is not a person declared under law to be disentitled to hold a firearm certificate (this includes a person sentenced to imprisonment for certain offences, a person of unsound mind, a person not ordinarily resident in the State for a period of six months before applying, amongst others);

- Where the firearm is a rifle or pistol to be used for target shooting, the individual is a member of an authorised rifle or pistol club;

- The individual has provided secure accommodation for the firearm.

S.I. No. 307/2009 - Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations 2009 establishes the minimum secure accommodation required for firearm storage. A progressively higher minimum standard of security is required under the regulations where there are differing numbers of firearms stored at the same location.

The Garda Commissioner issues Guidelines as to the practical application and operation of the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2009. These Guidelines were last updated in September 2018.

In accordance with Section 3E of the Firearms Act 1925, as amended, the Garda Commissioner conducts an annual review of the operation of the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2009. This report is provided to the Minister and is laid before each House of the Oireachtas.

The legislation regarding the regulation of firearm licensing is reviewed on an ongoing basis.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
563. To ask the Tiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to examine the gun ownership regulations that allow applicants to obtain firearms without providing medical reports or undertaking psychiatric evaluation as part of the application process. [13907/19]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)

I can advise the Deputy that there are stringent controls under Irish legislation on the issue of firearm certificates by An Garda Sh and the conditions under which firearms can be held.

An Garda Sh advise that each application for a firearms certificate is considered on its merits by the issuing officer in accordance with the relevant legislation.

The Barr Tribunal investigated the circumstances regarding a fatal shooting in Abbeylara, Co. Longford in April 2000. In his Report, Mr. Justice Barr agreed with the view of the Irish College of Psychiatrists that psychiatric assessments in relation to firearms certificate applications as a statutory requirement were not appropriate.

Regarding the provision of medical reports, Mr Justice Barr’s Report stated:

“The submissions and evidence on this issue from a wide range of experts to which I have already referred, when considered in conjunction with Lord Cullen’s opinion in his Dunblane Report (with which there appears to be general agreement) establishes that there should not be any statutory requirement for the mandatory provision of medical certificates by applicants for gun licences or renewals thereof. In the light of the evidence presented on this topic, it is evident that there are major practical difficulties in implementing such a statutory requirement. These include the fact that in many instances a gun licence applicant’s general medical practitioner may not have sufficient knowledge of his or her patient, or specialist expertise to make an appropriate assessment and the time factor (and expense) involved in making a realistic psychiatric specialist assessment of the applicant. In my opinion it is not a workable proposition.”

Arising from concerns expressed at the Barr Tribunal, new conditions for applications were introduced in the Criminal Justice Act 2006. These conditions include the requirement of applicants to provide two referees to attest to their character, and also a requirement on each applicant to provide written consent for an issuing officer to make any enquiries in relation to the applicant’s medical history from a health professional.

The Garda Commissioner’s Guidelines, as to the practical application and operation of the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2009, point out that this is a very sensitive issue and it is not possible to advise on every potential scenario which may arise in a decision making process.

The Guidelines state that:

- Issuing persons should be alert to cases in which a general practitioner's report reveals that an applicant has exhibited, or is exhibiting, signs of depression, suicidal tendencies, longstanding or intermittent periods of either emotional instability or unpredictable behaviour.

- Issuing persons should also be alert to any of these signs exhibited by existing certificate holders.

- It should be remembered that because a person has received treatment in the past for certain illnesses or conditions, such as depression or stress, it does not automatically follow they are unfit to possess a firearm. It is simply one of the factors to be considered with all other evidence relating to the applicant's character and history. In such cases, account should be taken of the latest medical opinion.

In accordance with Section 3E of the Firearms Act 1925, as amended, the Garda Commissioner conducts an annual review of the operation of the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2009. This report is provided to the Minister and is laid before each House of the Oireachtas.

The legislation regarding the regulation of firearm licensing continues to be reviewed on an ongoing basis.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
564. To ask the Tiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the number of firearms training certificates held by 14 to 17 year olds; the increase or otherwise in the number of firearms certificates issued in 2018; the level of private legally held firearms per head of population; and the way in which these figures compare with figures from ten years ago in tabular form. [13908/19]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)

I wish to advise the Deputy that, in 2009, major changes were introduced in the way firearms were licensed in the State. Key changes saw the introduction of a new three-year firearm certificate. The legislation also saw the introduction of a Firearms Training Certificate.

In accordance with Section 2A of the Firearms Act, 1925, as amended, a person over 14 years of age can apply for a firearms training certificate. Such a certificate authorises the person to possess a firearm only while carrying and using the firearm for hunting or target shooting and under the supervision of a specified person over 18 years of age who holds a firearms certificate in respect of the firearm concerned. An application for a training certificate, where the applicant is under 16 years of age, shall be accompanied by the written consent of the applicant's parent or guardian.

An Garda Sh advise that figures of firearm certificates relating to 10 years ago are not comparable with figures for the current numbers of firearm certificates, as the numbers, classes and types of firearm certificates previously issued under legislation prior to 2009 differ to the three-year certificates issued since then. An Garda Sh have advised that the number of firearms currently licensed in the State in 2019 has reduced significantly, by in the region of circa 30,000 firearms, from the number licensed in 2008/2009.

The following table sets out the number of Firearm Training Certificates currently on issue in the State to individuals over 14 years of age included in the overall number of 187,445 certificates. fully processed and issued as of 1 January, 2019.

- Firearm Certificates as of 1st January, 2019
Training Certificates 156
Total Firearm Certificates 187,445

Cass

So in short :

1. Question 1) - Exactly what we [the shooting community] have said in this thread.
2. Question 2) - Exactly what we [the shooting community] have said in this thread.
3. Question 3) - Exactly what we [the shooting community] have said in this thread.
4. Question 4) - Surprising number there. I was full sure the number of licenses was much higher. So in the last ten years the total number of licenses issued has dropped and stayed low. Down from approx 230,000 prior to 2009 to 188,000 now. With only 156 of them being training licenses.

Dear God WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN.!

156. And those are training licenses which does not automatically imply someone between 14 to 17 as they are available to anyone of any age.

I mean sweet baby Jesus. Have these "representatives" no shame. Stepping the graves of those murdered to push an agenda based on an issue nearly 12,000 miles away. they don't do the research, don't know that we have stricter laws than New Zealand and most other countries.

It's a sad and pitiful attempt at mustering recognition. As i said in the above linked to thread, there must be a election coming up soon. All i need to see is the anti smoking ban, communist supporting, Castro is "misunderstood", Finian McGrath coming out with another headline seeking statement on something mad and i know an election is around the corner.

ganmo

they seem to have a bee in their bonnet about the training license without grasping the fact that to hold a gun in Ireland you need to have a license for that specific gun

meathstevie

Cass wrote: »

So in short :

1. Question 1) - Exactly what we [the shooting community] have said in this thread.
2. Question 2) - Exactly what we [the shooting community] have said in this thread.
3. Question 3) - Exactly what we [the shooting community] have said in this thread.
4. Question 4) - Surprising number there. I was full sure the number of licenses was much higher. So in the last ten years the total number of licenses issued has dropped and stayed low. Down from approx 230,000 prior to 2009 to 188,000 now. With only 156 of them being training licenses.

Dear God WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN.!

156. And those are training licenses which does not automatically imply someone between 14 to 17 as they are available to anyone of any age.

I mean sweet baby Jesus. Have these "representatives" no shame. Stepping the graves of those murdered to push an agenda based on an issue nearly 12,000 miles away. they don't do the research, don't know that we have stricter laws than New Zealand and most other countries.

It's a sad and pitiful attempt at mustering recognition. As i said in the above linked to thread, there must be a election coming up soon. All i need to see is the anti smoking ban, communist supporting, Castro is "misunderstood", Finian McGrath coming out with another headline seeking statement on something mad and i know an election is around the corner.

Finian McGrath would be better of trying to come up with some half cocked brain wave about the problematic weapons and those using them in his constituency rather than spouting drivel about our legally held firearms.

Fair play to the minister answering the P&Q's. A very long winded and diplomatic way of saying stop talking shyte and come back when you've informed yourself Mr Ryan......

solarwinds

I dont think its the training licence itself they are having a go at, if you look at their wording of the question "how many CHILDREN over 14 years of age have these licences". I think its a case of stopping youth from getting into the sport when it has been talked about before here that by the time a person here reaches 14 in order to qualify for a training cert they are already many years behind other countries children in training for competitions etc.

Nekarsulm

ganmo wrote: »

they seem to have a bee in their bonnet about the training license without grasping the fact that to hold a gun in Ireland you need to have a license for that specific gun

Lots of things you can ""officially" do in Ireland between the ages of 14 to 16.
Like learning to shoot, you can take lessons in light aircraft, gliders and helicopters at that age.
Indeed the EU has decreed that you can be a certified glider pilot at age 16.
Indeed you can fly an airliner at 19.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1996006653792306&id=255952874464368


It would be interesting yo know how many 14 to 16 year olds are currently having flying lessons in Ireland.

What will they pick on next? The fact that you can legally drive a tractor on field operations from age 13, and on the public road the day you turn 16?

Grizzly 45

A

. These include a ban on new licences for semi automatic centre fire rifles and the establishment of a Firearms Assessment and Appeals Authority.

Bull manure as we all know, but let's keep the GP dumb on the issue IMO.So actually well worded by Min Stanton.

The primary function of the Authority will be to determine, on the basis of an objective assessment of all the issues, with safety of the public being paramount, whether particular forms of firearms may be licensed in the State, whether there should be any limit on the number of such firearms and what safety conditions might properly be applied to their licensing.

IF and EVER it is set up... :rolleyes: Like the promises of FG two elections ago to re examine the explosives acts to allow reloading..Oh..Eight years ago now??

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

It would be interesting yo know how many 14 to 16 year olds are currently having flying lessons in Ireland.

What will they pick on next? The fact that you can legally drive a tractor on field operations from age 13, and on the public road the day you turn 16?

Whats a flight lesson PH now around here ?? Last I looked a helicopter was 500euros PH. Mad thing is tho, here you can buy your own aircraft and fly it without any insurance whatsoever,and take to the skies on a Learner pilot license unaccompanied.:eek: Well seeing that not many people can afford lessons or keeping an aircraft around here,I'd assume its a moot worry along with Learner firearms certs being misused... Now hopefully Ryan and O Sullivan of the Watermelon party will kindly STFU and go back to their corner and play head the ball with themselves,and leave the rest of us alone.

Cadpat_cowboy

solarwinds wrote: »

I dont think its the training licence itself they are having a go at, if you look at their wording of the question "how many CHILDREN over 14 years of age have these licences". I think its a case of stopping youth from getting into the sport when it has been talked about before here that by the time a person here reaches 14 in order to qualify for a training cert they are already many years behind other countries children in training for competitions etc.

I think the point the green lad was trying to push without having the balls to say it was school shootings. Probaly hoping that the public will associate tennagers with guns to school shootings. To me his questions were asked in a way that said sure a 14 can get a shotgun and do as they please with it, which isn't the case.

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A

Bull manure as we all know, but let's keep the GP dumb on the issue IMO.So actually well worded by Min Stanton.

I wouldn't think it's bull manure. I'd say that they will put a ban on new semi-auto centrefire firearms.

It's not in place right now, but they sure as sh1t will look to get it in.

Nekarsulm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Whats a flight lesson PH now around here ?? Last I looked a helicopter was 500euros PH. .

Lessons in small fixed wing aircraft are running 100 to 130 euro per hour at my local field (Abbeyshrule)
Got a few in a little UrbanAir Samba, a couple of years ago.

Regarding school shootings, I still vividly remember my father arriving to tbe boarding school and demanding to see me.
Face like thunder, he had just realised that I had brought my newly acquired Gunmark Sabel boxlock back to the school on the Sunday night, and had smuggled it in to my locker down in the boot-room.
Was heading to a friends house st the weekend, and we were mad to get out hunting.
There was both picture and sound on that occasion!

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A

I wouldn't think it's bull manure. I'd say that they will put a ban on new semi-auto centrefire firearms.

It's not in place right now, but they sure as sh1t will look to get it in.

I will be looking forward to when that happens ,as there will be huge legal questions of compo and retroactive legislation under EU laws.

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Lessons in small fixed wing aircraft are running 100 to 130 euro per hour at my local field (Abbeyshrule)
Got a few in a little UrbanAir Samba, a couple of years ago.

Regarding school shootings, I still vividly remember my father arriving to tbe boarding school and demanding to see me.
Face like thunder, he had just realised that I had brought my newly acquired Gunmark Sabel boxlock back to the school on the Sunday night, and had smuggled it in to my locker down in the boot-room.
Was heading to a friends house st the weekend, and we were mad to get out hunting.
There was both picture and sound on that occasion!

Cheap enough ...Coonagh last time I asked 250 ph.

tac foley

@G45 - Obviously you go higher where you are.....

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

BattleCorp wrote: »

I will be looking forward to when that happens ,as there will be huge legal questions of compo and retroactive legislation under EU laws.

Yep, they'd have trouble if they tried to rescind any existing licences.

But if you look at the wording of the Dail reply that Sparks posted, it mentions new licences. So I'm guessing they'd grandfather what's there (thus no compo) and stop issuing new licences.

dc99

I reckon the next beauty of a question from the GP will be:

"Minister, how many criminals have licensed firearms? And how many of these criminals are aged 14 to 17?"

Any takers?

Grizzly 45

And it would proably still run into trouble on a concept called Ex post facto law. Prohibited under EU legislation. As well as the imbalance concept and discrimination of certain people having a certain type of gun and others being refused just because of a date deadline.

And I said it was BS simply because we can still apply for them, with that caveat that at some unspecified date in the future, they May be banned, is not a good reason for refusal. They have to work with a law that is written in the here and now.
So in a backhanded way Min Stanton is doing us a favour, by saying banned.It makes Nebs like the GP &Co think these guns don't exist here, and hopefully, "the twitchy ones" think they are unavailable and look elsewhere for a killing spree weapon.

Grizzly 45

Intresting... Sen O Sullivan who started this whole hullabaloo last week, has removed the post AFAICS from her FB page.:;):D

I guess the heat wasn't worth it and she got her answers [and fall guy] in Eamon Ryans questions instead.Be rather sexist ,if she dumped her wagon of manure on him to sort out??All that gender equality talk amounting to nothing much??

There might be a message here folks,we might have spooked them because we are the "vocal minority" and we were "offended"?

Or did friend" Elperello" finally mention to her that she was on a hiding to nothing with this??

elperello

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Intresting... Sen O Sullivan who started this whole hullabaloo last week, has removed the post AFAICS from her FB page.:;):D

I guess the heat wasn't worth it and she got her answers [and fall guy] in Eamon Ryans questions instead.Be rather sexist ,if she dumped her wagon of manure on him to sort out??All that gender equality talk amounting to nothing much??

There might be a message here folks,we might have spooked them because we are the "vocal minority" and we were "offended"?

Or did friend" Elperello" finally mention to her that she was on a hiding to nothing with this??

Nothing to do with me.
But then if you read my posts you'd know that.
Just stick to your last and leave me out of your "side swipe list".

Grizzly 45

"But then if you read my posts you'd know that.
Just stick to your last and leave me out of your "side swipe list".

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cass

Cass wrote: »

M'eh, virtual signalling. It'll come to nothing.

Don't be surprised to see her run for TD to cushion that Senator pension in the next General Election.

Cass wrote: »

It's a sad and pitiful attempt at mustering recognition. As i said in the above linked to thread, there must be a election coming up soon. All i need to see is the anti smoking ban, communist supporting, Castro is "misunderstood", Finian McGrath coming out with another headline seeking statement on something mad and i know an election is around the corner.

HAH.

Only seen that there is a local elections, and European, scheduled for may 24th this year.

The 2019 Irish local elections will be held in all local authorities in Ireland on Friday, 24 May 2019, on the same day as the 2019 European Parliament election. .