Happy International Men's Day!

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I don't lend much thought at all to IMD, though I do find the different media reporting patterns surrounding it to be interesting.

For example I notice thejournal.ie hasn't one single article up today mentioning IMD that I can see, while IWD was plastered across the entire site, including the42.ie and the Daily edge. Don't have any gripe with this, just find it interesting is all.

Looking at Journal/daily edge regularly, everyday is womens day/women are always the victim and they never go a day without a poor women/evil men story ...Its basically written by 3rd wave feminist transition year students

Theres a male (sean murray I think) who writes on it and last year on IWC, he went on a twitter rant as he was walking behind a woman, and he thought he was making her uncomfortable so he crossed the road and took the long way back home to not make her uncomfortable....yeah that's pathetic

JayZeus wrote: »

No real man will care. It’s just another ‘day’ created by morons for other morons to celebrate.

Might as well call it International Gobsheite Day.

I just can’t figure out why it doesn’t get as much attention as IWD. But at least it gives the fools an opportunity to whinge about how IMD is stupid AND IMD isn’t publicised like IWD, with a google doodle, which is because of feminists or women or summit.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I just can’t figure out why it doesn’t get as much attention as IWD. But at least it gives the fools an opportunity to whinge about how IMD is stupid AND IMD isn’t publicised like IWD, with a google doodle, which is because of feminists or women or summit.

My god, you do an awful lot of whinging.

givyjoe wrote: »

My god, you do an awful lot of whinging.

However I do care about IMD and men’s issues. That’s something most of the ones who whine about feminism don’t give a toss about.

The day has passed, but what a great initiative, hopefully over the coming years it will take off and gain more public consciousness and become more visual like Womens day is.

Look after yourself lads.

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a shame a day that could be used to focus on issues affecting men is used to complain about women. That has to be part of the problem, most men aren't interested in a gender war, they just want a spotlight on things that normally don't have a platform. IMD is a golden opportunity to do that but as usual it was wasted.

Whether people like it or not, most men are not interested in a gender war but most men are in a gender war. If you are a male and work in a large organisation, your chances of being promoted have diminished fairly significantly.

If you are a dad, you're the vulnerable one!

The erosion of men's rights shows no signs of abating.

IMD was ignored by most media, which, incidentally ignores most male issues.

The debunked Gender Pay gap, with all the media exposure that receives, has no male equivalent.

We had a male Health Minister, on IMD, encouraged men to stop beating up women!! That is a little frightening I have to say.

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a shame a day that could be used to focus on issues affecting men is used to complain about women. That has to be part of the problem, most men aren't interested in a gender war, they just want a spotlight on things that normally don't have a platform. IMD is a golden opportunity to do that but as usual it was wasted.

This is it, unfortunately. All the issues that would benefit from using IMD to raise awareness from mental health to domestic and sexual violence against men and treatment of men in family courts. Men who don't give tuppence about IMD will get all hot and bothered on Women's Day, faking outrage at how useful and well publicised it is and asking why nothing happens on IMD.

I brought IMD up in conversation a couple of times yesterday and the initial reaction was 'every day's men's day'. But then I mentioned suicide being the single biggest cause of death of young men, men falling behind in education and the assumption that women are the primary carer and given preferential treatment in family courts, in a world where both parents increasingly share parenting duties.

The people I spoke with were glad of the information. You can't expect other people to know the same things you know unless you actually share information.

One thing I know is that IMD will never become more useful as long as some clowns can only raise a 'meh' on IMD but feign outrage when Women's say is actually really useful to highlight women's issues.

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't disagree with the above but I think on IMD it's better to be proactive rather than reactive. If the events are leaving something to be desired, start your own. I asked my husband yesterday if work marked the day, his workplace is 90% male, and his answer was no. He says no one is interested in it which is a real shame. IWD didn't just appear, it started as grassroots events that go no attention, it took time and persistence to get traction. Its taken years to get it to what it is today. I feel some men expect the attention without being willing to put in the work.

To what end though?

I'm Male so:

I know to get my prostate checked as I get older for cancer
Suicide/depression is a big killer, I'll watch that, in my profession it's 3 times the average
Domestic violence isn't recognised, if the wife goes down that road I'll give her road.
Family courts don't give men a fair hearing; I'll go on the doll. Can't get blood from a stone.

Honestly I thing IWD/IMD are a blown up by interest groups, particularly IWD. For instance my wife would rather I got a promotion rather than a more qualified female counterpart even if it was down to me golfing with the boss. Reason being her unit/team has more money.

It amazes me how women have only been getting equal rights bit by bit in the last fifty years and how loudly men are complaining about the results of that. There weren't a huge amount of men in the preceding millennia campaigning and demanding that women should be treated more fairly, equally and humanely. No, women had to fight for changes themselves with the help of some good men. IWD and the events that take place and the publicity it gets in the media is largely driven by women. Whereas men just don't give a ****e about IMD as proven over and over and over again by some of the posts in this thread. IMD will be what you make it, lads, but it seems like none of you can be arsed to make anything of it. Are you waiting for women to do it for you?

Silentcorner wrote: »

Whether people like it or not, most men are not interested in a gender war but most men are in a gender war. If you are a male and work in a large organisation, your chances of being promoted have diminished fairly significantly.

Your basis for the perception of a gender war is more women entering the workforce and men dropping out because they can’t be arsed? Your chances of being promoted are the same as they always were, it’s just that now the criteria for promotion have changed to make promotions open to more people. If that’s the basis upon which your complaint rests, that’s really not a good argument - “nothing is going my way any more”.

If you are a dad, you're the vulnerable one!

Completely untrue, and I say that as a separated father who is my child’s primary carer, in the family home. This outcome has nothing to do with my sex, and neither are any outcomes in the Family Courts solely based upon anyone’s sex.

The erosion of men's rights shows no signs of abating.

There’s that difference in perception again. Men’s rights are not being eroded. Men still have and retain the same legal rights they always did, and now women are gaining equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunities in areas where they didn’t have equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunities before.

IMD was ignored by most media, which, incidentally ignores most male issues.

The debunked Gender Pay gap, with all the media exposure that receives, has no male equivalent.

Can’t open a newspaper or turn on tv without appeals to men to look after their health and get regular checkups and so on for the various issues that specifically relate to men. The media certainly do not ignore most male issues, in fact they make plenty of money out of promoting issues they imagine are relevant to men, in particular the gap between male and female suicide rates.

We had a male Health Minister, on IMD, encouraged men to stop beating up women!! That is a little frightening I have to say.

As much as I have no time for him, it’s an issue that men need to address, that only men can address, so it seems perfectly appropriate on IMD to want to highlight it, or would you really rather the insufferable and patronising talking bollocks that women are exposed to on IWD?

In the interests of disclosure, I have no interest in either day, and I’m certainly no feminist either, but people are right to point out that one of the main reasons why IWD is as popular as it is, is because people put in the work to promote it, and the reason some men are feeling like they’re getting the shìtty end of the stick is because they never experienced any real challenge to their perceived dominant position in society before now. Naturally any challenge to their position is going to knock them off course depending upon its momentum.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Your basis for the perception of a gender war is more women entering the workforce and men dropping out because they can’t be arsed? Your chances of being promoted are the same as they always were, it’s just that now the criteria for promotion have changed to make promotions open to more people. If that’s the basis upon which your complaint rests, that’s really not a good argument - “nothing is going my way any more”.





Completely untrue, and I say that as a separated father who is my child’s primary carer, in the family home. This outcome has nothing to do with my sex, and neither are any outcomes in the Family Courts solely based upon anyone’s sex.





There’s that difference in perception again. Men’s rights are not being eroded. Men still have and retain the same legal rights they always did, and now women are gaining equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunities in areas where they didn’t have equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunities before.





Can’t open a newspaper or turn on tv without appeals to men to look after their health and get regular checkups and so on for the various issues that specifically relate to men. The media certainly do not ignore most male issues, in fact they make plenty of money out of promoting issues they imagine are relevant to men, in particular the gap between male and female suicide rates.





As much as I have no time for him, it’s an issue that men need to address, that only men can address, so it seems perfectly appropriate on IMD to want to highlight it, or would you really rather the insufferable and patronising talking bollocks that women are exposed to on IWD?

In the interests of disclosure, I have no interest in either day, and I’m certainly no feminist either, but people are right to point out that one of the main reasons why IWD is as popular as it is, is because people put in the work to promote it, and the reason some men are feeling like they’re getting the shìtty end of the stick is because they never experienced any real challenge to their perceived dominant position in society before now. Naturally any challenge to their position is going to knock them off course depending upon its momentum.

So I'm wrong about everything then, sorry about that....I'll just use future IMDs to focus on abstaining from beating the s##t out of women then....

eviltwin wrote:

I don't disagree with the above but I think on IMD it's better to be proactive rather than reactive. If the events are leaving something to be desired, start your own. I asked my husband yesterday if work marked the day, his workplace is 90% male, and his answer was no. He says no one is interested in it which is a real shame. IWD didn't just appear, it started as grassroots events that go no attention, it took time and persistence to get traction. Its taken years to get it to what it is today. I feel some men expect the attention without being willing to put in the work.

Work marked the day by being his employer, which helps him keeps his livelihood. His employer/company is probably too busy going about their commercial activity....you know....a business, to spend their time recognising IMD and having some sort of men only talk or 2 hour mens lunch, leaving the 10% who aren't men to do work in their absence.

We don't have enough information from your message to assess the likelihood of this employer to get involved in social issues. I'd assume (perhaps incorrectly so) that it's a small company. It tends to be larger corporations (particularly ones where there's cache in the company promoting diversity hires) that get involved in this, they are thinly disguised marketing campaigns There's little value in IMD for those businesses. Efforts might have increased recently due to backlash against a feeling of one-way traffic in gender equality issues. Places like finance and tech companies are all over IWD, it suits them to promote themselves as champions of women in the workplace. There have been photos up all week of people posing with "fearless girl". What exactly is a company going to get out of promoting their top male staff, or otherwise any other male orientated promotion? Nothing.

I used to work for a quasi public sector body, an employer of a large number of people. They prided themselves on being champions of diversity and LGBT issues. Every so often they would hold a "womens network" event, as part of their diversity panel. Invariably they would be long talks during workhours, many of which were women only events, except of course for the white knight senior manager. This was a man who had already climbed the ladder, and now saw no danger of preferential hiring policy biased towards women. In fact, it was currency for him in his career now, good personal branding. Aside from him it was all women, all Irish, probably all raised in the christian faith, similar education backgrounds, all white. Hurray for diversity! This is the sort of thing that's commonplace now.

HR control the message. Fat chance of anything good happening for anyone trying to independently hold a mens network in there, and/or most other places of employment. Like it or not these days are largely work related events, so it's not just a case of men putting the work. I think most men would inherently prefer gender to be taken out of equation, because invariably when you are promoting one cause there is subtly or not so subtly, an injured party. If you're a sufferer or mental health problems, drug use, homelessness, violent attacks, sexual abuse, domestic violence etc., then you should be able to get the same high quality of assistance as anyone else. Highlighting one gender over another does little to harmonise or help the majority, particularly when one side has a more sympathetic audience than the other.

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ah come here....I didn't think I'd have to spell this out.

Domestic violence and abuse is perpetrated on both genders by both genders.

IMD was an opportunity to highlight male victims of domestic abuse...

If you are unwilling to accept that then I don't see the point in even discussing it.

Now, it should also be recognised that we do not have an epidemic of spousal abuse in Ireland thankfully, but it is sinister to project all blame for domestic abuse onto one gender!

Oh absolutely I accept that.

Do you accept that men are entitled on International Men’s Day to speak about issues that matter to them?

Simon Harris is absolutely within his right to address other men with an issue he feels strongly enough about to raise with men on International Men’s Day. That’s the whole bloody point of IMD - for men to raise issues that matter to them.

You completely missed the point if you imagine men are the real victims in anything the Minister said. That just shows your own bias in complaining that a man didn’t talk about what you want him to talk about, he talked about something that matters to him.

Nowhere was there any suggestion made that you can’t talk about issues that matter to you, and that’s why I have no interest in IMD. You say it was an opportunity to highlight male victims of domestic violence - sure I do that myself every fcuking day, I don’t need a special day for it. I also do the same for women. There’s no conflict whatsoever between the two issues from either perspective, only the conflict that’s in your imagination that you are entirely responsible for with your perceptions and claims that anyone, whether they are a man or a woman, is part of some “gender war” nonsense.

You’re speaking for yourself on that one.