Happy International Men's Day!

Standman · 19-11-2018 3:39pm

My father is a man, full of grit.

I asked him what he wanted for International Men's Day, and do you know what he asked for? A shovel.

Need I say more.

spurious · 19-11-2018 4:10pm

spurious wrote: »

Nowadays, there is a whole section in the Dept of Ed. devoted to studying and trying to combat the poor performance levels of large sections of male students.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Certainly. But you know what I mean

That's interesting. What conclusion are they coming to do you know?

I haven't been in touch with them for a while, but I know they were looking at styles of assessment; the beneficial effect (for all, but especially for the section of boys that were concerning them) of project or practical work that is done during the year rather than all in one week.

Certain ways of wording questions, the language used in the, how the layout of questions (or their position in an exam paper) can adversely affect boys' performance etc.. It's a whole science in itself.

The trouble is, the 'new' Junior Cert. is going to undo what little progress had been made, with its 'one size fits all, sure didn't you do your best, here's a 'partial achievement for yourself' rubbish. I don't think the general public realise just how bad it is going to be. The brown stuff will be hitting the fan big time.

There's also the problem of education among some boys as not being seen as 'cool' (for want of a better word) and in some cases even very undesirable to be 'good' at school. That's more a social thing than an educational one. The low self-esteem of boys in the lower-achieving bands is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you think you're rubbish at something, the first small hurdle you come to, you give up. I was once waiting outside a mixed second-level school on an exam day and it was frightening the number of boys who were out within an hour of the start of the exam. Sure they hadn't a chance of passing if they'd legged it before half the exam time was up. How to keep them trying is the problem.

spurious · 19-11-2018 4:12pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Maybe boys did not generally speaking have as positive experiences in school themselves so naturally then are unlikely to want it as a career. Imo school suits girls better both in terms of boys needing to move about more and also female teachers showing bias to girls. My own boys have always told me all their teachers liked the girls more. Children shouldn't be able to notice that so clearly.

Strangely though, where this has been studied (admittedly, not very often), it has found that in mixed schools, the boys get more of the teacher's time - possibly not all positive time though.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2018 4:57pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Men bashing day. Never in men's international day are the achievements of men celebrated. The day is used to point out our weaknesses. Mental Health, prison statistics, violence etc. Do one.

You can use it like that if you like. I posted a story about a mate in work who shared his success story with testicular cancer. I admired him for pending so upfront about it.

Oh maybe I was just making men look weak and sickly in your view. But I think you'd have to be looking really hard for the most negative angle to take that approach.

You use IMD to bitch about IMD if you like. I'll probably just use it to share some info which might be of use to other men.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2018 5:01pm

jmayo wrote: »

Is this another fooking Hallmark brainfart day ?

Let me guess it came out of the states somewhere.

Yours exactly right. It started in Trinidad and Tobago in 1999 according to Wikipedia. ðŸ˜

The Pheasant2 · 19-11-2018 5:02pm

I don't lend much thought at all to IMD, though I do find the different media reporting patterns surrounding it to be interesting.

For example I notice thejournal.ie hasn't one single article up today mentioning IMD that I can see, while IWD was plastered across the entire site, including the42.ie and the Daily edge. Don't have any gripe with this, just find it interesting is all.

silverharp · 19-11-2018 5:26pm

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I don't lend much thought at all to IMD, though I do find the different media reporting patterns surrounding it to be interesting.

For example I notice thejournal.ie hasn't one single article up today mentioning IMD that I can see, while IWD was plastered across the entire site, including the42.ie and the Daily edge. Don't have any gripe with this, just find it interesting is all.

not even a google doodle :pac:

andekwarhola · 19-11-2018 5:47pm

We need to address the real issue. The increasingly finite number of days within the calendar year to which to append pointless celebration days.

Amirani · 19-11-2018 6:31pm

Nice article on the topic today in the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/19/feminist-celebrating-international-mens-day

Author: "Carys Afoko is the executive director and co-founder of Level Up, a community for feminists who want to work together to end sexism"

Content of the article took me very much by surprise having seen the author's description.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2018 6:38pm

silverharp wrote: »

not even a google doodle :pac:

I’ve seen you post about the google doodles before. You seem to put a lot of store by the google doodle.

For a man who loves to whinge about feminism, I was surprised when I asked if you cared about men’s issues and you said and has only a passing support for men’s issues.

But to be fair, your response above does betray your position. Whinge about the lack of a google doodle and have nothing to say about IMD itself. All the issues that affect men from mental health to fathers rights, and you post about the google doodle.

I think there are loads of issues to discuss and raise awareness about. So fair play to those who care enough about men’s issues to bother their hoop talk about them.

iptba · 19-11-2018 6:41pm

Grayson wrote: »

And statistically women serve more time for murders

I read that could be because for some type of homocides, women are more likely to get a manslaughter conviction so the mix of crimes counted as murder for women is not the same as those men are convicted of.

iptba · 19-11-2018 6:44pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

^^^^ oh absolutely but those cases don't disprove the rule. men are in prison more because they are ON AVERAGE more aggressive, violent, risk-taking and are over represented at the lower (and higher) end of the IQ scale.

Assuming men are more likely to have very, very IQ scores, it shouldn’t be seen as evidence of discrimination if more men are at the top of many professions, particularly ones like academic positions.

Rubberchikken · 19-11-2018 6:48pm

A hugh fan of men here. Seriously dont like the way they're blamed for every ill in this world.
Anyone with half a brain would realise that the world is made up of good and bad people - men and women alike. Appreciating the good in anyone is always worth the effort.

Happy international mens day:)

iptba · 19-11-2018 6:54pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s what happens alright. The big brave bucks in the men’s forum couldn’t raise more than a ‘meh’ for International Men’s Day last year. Then whinged, bitched and moaned about how big and well publicised International Women’s Day was.

That's not true for everyone.

The Tetrarch · 19-11-2018 7:46pm

How about an International Man of Mystery Day?

nullzero · 19-11-2018 7:47pm

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I don't lend much thought at all to IMD, though I do find the different media reporting patterns surrounding it to be interesting.

For example I notice thejournal.ie hasn't one single article up today mentioning IMD that I can see, while IWD was plastered across the entire site, including the42.ie and the Daily edge. Don't have any gripe with this, just find it interesting is all.

Broadsheet had it up, the first comment was from one of the resident Sjw's moaning about men complaining about international women's day.

suicide_circus · 19-11-2018 7:51pm

iptba wrote: »

Assuming men are more likely to have very, very IQ scores, it shouldn’t be seen as evidence of discrimination if more men are at the top of many professions, particularly ones like academic positions.

quite the opposite actually.

iptba · 19-11-2018 7:56pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Assuming men are more likely to have very, very IQ scores, it shouldn’t be seen as evidence of discrimination if more men are at the top of many professions, particularly ones like academic positions.

quite the opposite actually.

So do I take it then that you are unhappy with some initiatives such as "women only professorships", "positive discrimination", gender quotas and efforts to equalise the number of men and women at the top level in academia and some other professions?

CinemaGuy45 · 19-11-2018 8:01pm

Will, there be an international day for each of the other 63 and a half genders?

DL6SFymVoAAhVT1.jpg:large

iptba · 19-11-2018 8:04pm

Irish International Men’s Day events

White Ribbon Ireland gender-equality seminar
Dr Steeven’s Hospital, Dublin; 10am-1pm; free; tickets here
The Men’s Development Network and its White Ribbon campaign address gender equality in society, health, law, advocacy and men’s conversation. This seminar, hosted by the Health Service Executive, has a great line-up of contributors. The barrister (and Irish Times columnist) Noel Whelan speaks about positive changes in Irish gender-equality law, including the new domestic-violence law; the director of the National Women’s Council of Ireland, Orla O’Connor, will speak on women and men working together towards gender equality; Fergal Fox of the HSE discusses the national men’s health action plan, as well as plans to to support a women’s health plan; and Minister for Health Simon Harris talks about gender equality and a healthy society.

White Ribbon campaign
International White Ribbon Day, which aims to help end men’s violence against women and girls, and to promote gender equality, is being launched at today’s gender-equality seminar. The Men’s Development Network’s annual White Ribbon Campaign seeks to change the attitudes and behaviours that lead to and perpetuate men’s violence against women, by engaging boys and men to promote gender equality and lead social change. White Ribbon Ireland’s ambassadors’ programme wants thousands of men to be the faces and leaders of the campaign, by living the White Ribbon commitment: never to commit, excuse or remain silent about violence against women. The FAI, as a White Ribbon ambassador, supports it each year with a key match. This year it was last week’s Republic of Ireland match against Northern Ireland. You can donate by texting WHITE RIBBON to 50300. Texts cost €4, of which at least €3.25 goes to White Ribbon Ireland.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/international-men-s-day-what-s-it-all-about-1.3700295

I think the HSE, the Minister for Health, etc shouldn't be involved with an event to use international men's day to focused on domestic violence by men against women. I very much doubt they would associated with an event on International Women's Day that focused on domestic violence by women against men; or on Mother's Day, which focused on child abuse, neglect, etc. by mothers, etc.

iptba · 19-11-2018 8:05pm

nullzero wrote: »

Broadsheet had it up, the first comment was from one of the resident Sjw's moaning about men complaining about international women's day.

Have a link to the article? I searched the site but could only find articles on "International Men's Day" from 2013 and 2014.

Outlaw Pete · 19-11-2018 8:15pm

silverharp wrote: »

not even a google doodle :pac:

You're right! The bastards! And they had this for the wimmin:

I'll NEVER use Google again, EVER!!!

Googles "Does Yahoo still exist?"

ToddyDoody · 19-11-2018 8:18pm

I remember in secondary schools (a large all boys school) being asked to read my friend's english essay to give any feedback I might have. (This is quite ironic in retrospect, given the fact I actually failed the subject in the end.)

Two things I remember. At 16, (at roughly the height of a boy / man's sexual peak), having no social outlet aside from the cinema is seen as really crap and if you are to do underage drinking, alcohol actually has feminising effects as it inhibits testosterone production (or something to that effect)

I really picked up on this fear of being feminised, at that age and possibly any age.

If you were to get into psychology, you'd describe how this pushing any feminine characteristics into the background as the moving it into the unconscious or the shadow of the personality. Freud would have called it.

While not ideal, foing this is how a man becomes a man. Having loved in the feminine world with the mother up until and beyond puberty, hypermasculinity is usually the way of killing the mother, which is very necessary.

The thing about it is - gender itself isn't as binary as you might imagine. If a man is 'all man', that means not that he has no feminity, it means the feminity has dosalpeared into the unconscious part of the psyche and plays out unconsciously which usually means idealising of women, who carry the unconscious feminine in the man.

The very same process is thought to work in women re: the unconscious masculine.

Anyways, the best messages I could give for the day - there is an inner as well as outer reality. Also, there is banal reality and a more numinous element to life also.

Yer Da sells Avon · 19-11-2018 8:18pm

silverharp wrote: »

not even a google doodle :pac:

I designed one for them last year, but they didn't even have the decency to respond.

ToddyDoody · 19-11-2018 8:19pm

(double post)

ToddyDoody · 19-11-2018 8:19pm

I remember in secondary school(a large all boys school) being asked to read my friend's english essay to give any feedback I might have. (This is quite ironic in retrospect, given the fact I actually failed the subject in the end.)

Two things I remember. At 16, (at roughly the height of a boy / man's sexual peak), having no social outlet aside from the cinema is seen as really crap and if you are to do underage drinking, alcohol actually has feminising effects as it inhibits testosterone production (or something to that effect)

I really picked up on this fear of being feminised, at that age and possibly any age.

If you were to get into psychology, you'd describe how this pushing any feminine characteristics into the background as the moving it into the unconscious or the shadow of the personality. Freud would have called it.

While not ideal, foing this is how a man becomes a man. Having loved in the feminine world with the mother up until and beyond puberty, hypermasculinity is usually the way of killing the mother, which is very necessary.

The thing about it is - gender itself isn't as binary as you might imagine. If a man is 'all man', that means not that he has no feminity, it means the feminity has dosalpeared into the unconscious part of the psyche and plays out unconsciously which usually means idealising of women, who carry the unconscious feminine in the man.

The very same process is thought to work in women re: the unconscious masculine.

Anyways, the best messages I could give for the day - there is an inner as well as outer reality. Also, there is banal reality and a more numinous element to life also.

suicide_circus · 19-11-2018 8:22pm

iptba wrote: »

So do I take it then that you are unhappy with some initiatives such as "women only professorships", "positive discrimination", gender quotas and efforts to equalise the number of men and women at the top level in academia and some other professions?

yes because I don't think equal distribution of genders in every facet of life is important. I'm not buying it. When i see the campaign for an equal distribution of genders down coal mines and collecting garbage then I might take it a little more seriously.

CinemaGuy45 · 19-11-2018 8:22pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I designed one for them last year, but they didn't even have the decency to respond.

I think the problem is you showed no balls.:P

19-11-2018 8:25pm

No real man will care. It’s just another ‘day’ created by morons for other morons to celebrate.

Might as well call it International Gobsheite Day.

iptba · 19-11-2018 8:36pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

yes because I don't think equal distribution of genders in every facet of life is important. I'm not buying it. When i see the campaign for an equal distribution of genders down coal mines and collecting garbage then I might take it a little more seriously.

OK, but the impact of there being more very high IQ men would be that even in professions that didn’t have a gender imbalance at lower levels, there could be at the very top levels.

Happy International Men's Day!

Comments