Happy International Men's Day!

iptba · 19-11-2018 5:41pm

Grayson wrote: »

And statistically women serve more time for murders

I read that could be because for some type of homocides, women are more likely to get a manslaughter conviction so the mix of crimes counted as murder for women is not the same as those men are convicted of.

iptba · 19-11-2018 5:44pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

^^^^ oh absolutely but those cases don't disprove the rule. men are in prison more because they are ON AVERAGE more aggressive, violent, risk-taking and are over represented at the lower (and higher) end of the IQ scale.

Assuming men are more likely to have very, very IQ scores, it shouldn’t be seen as evidence of discrimination if more men are at the top of many professions, particularly ones like academic positions.

Rubberchikken · 19-11-2018 5:48pm

A hugh fan of men here. Seriously dont like the way they're blamed for every ill in this world.
Anyone with half a brain would realise that the world is made up of good and bad people - men and women alike. Appreciating the good in anyone is always worth the effort.

Happy international mens day:)

iptba · 19-11-2018 5:54pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s what happens alright. The big brave bucks in the men’s forum couldn’t raise more than a ‘meh’ for International Men’s Day last year. Then whinged, bitched and moaned about how big and well publicised International Women’s Day was.

That's not true for everyone.

The Tetrarch · 19-11-2018 6:46pm

How about an International Man of Mystery Day?

nullzero · 19-11-2018 6:47pm

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I don't lend much thought at all to IMD, though I do find the different media reporting patterns surrounding it to be interesting.

For example I notice thejournal.ie hasn't one single article up today mentioning IMD that I can see, while IWD was plastered across the entire site, including the42.ie and the Daily edge. Don't have any gripe with this, just find it interesting is all.

Broadsheet had it up, the first comment was from one of the resident Sjw's moaning about men complaining about international women's day.

suicide_circus · 19-11-2018 6:51pm

iptba wrote: »

Assuming men are more likely to have very, very IQ scores, it shouldn’t be seen as evidence of discrimination if more men are at the top of many professions, particularly ones like academic positions.

quite the opposite actually.

iptba · 19-11-2018 6:56pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Assuming men are more likely to have very, very IQ scores, it shouldn’t be seen as evidence of discrimination if more men are at the top of many professions, particularly ones like academic positions.

quite the opposite actually.

So do I take it then that you are unhappy with some initiatives such as "women only professorships", "positive discrimination", gender quotas and efforts to equalise the number of men and women at the top level in academia and some other professions?

CinemaGuy45 · 19-11-2018 7:01pm

Will, there be an international day for each of the other 63 and a half genders?

DL6SFymVoAAhVT1.jpg:large

iptba · 19-11-2018 7:04pm

Irish International Men’s Day events

White Ribbon Ireland gender-equality seminar
Dr Steeven’s Hospital, Dublin; 10am-1pm; free; tickets here
The Men’s Development Network and its White Ribbon campaign address gender equality in society, health, law, advocacy and men’s conversation. This seminar, hosted by the Health Service Executive, has a great line-up of contributors. The barrister (and Irish Times columnist) Noel Whelan speaks about positive changes in Irish gender-equality law, including the new domestic-violence law; the director of the National Women’s Council of Ireland, Orla O’Connor, will speak on women and men working together towards gender equality; Fergal Fox of the HSE discusses the national men’s health action plan, as well as plans to to support a women’s health plan; and Minister for Health Simon Harris talks about gender equality and a healthy society.

White Ribbon campaign
International White Ribbon Day, which aims to help end men’s violence against women and girls, and to promote gender equality, is being launched at today’s gender-equality seminar. The Men’s Development Network’s annual White Ribbon Campaign seeks to change the attitudes and behaviours that lead to and perpetuate men’s violence against women, by engaging boys and men to promote gender equality and lead social change. White Ribbon Ireland’s ambassadors’ programme wants thousands of men to be the faces and leaders of the campaign, by living the White Ribbon commitment: never to commit, excuse or remain silent about violence against women. The FAI, as a White Ribbon ambassador, supports it each year with a key match. This year it was last week’s Republic of Ireland match against Northern Ireland. You can donate by texting WHITE RIBBON to 50300. Texts cost €4, of which at least €3.25 goes to White Ribbon Ireland.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/international-men-s-day-what-s-it-all-about-1.3700295

I think the HSE, the Minister for Health, etc shouldn't be involved with an event to use international men's day to focused on domestic violence by men against women. I very much doubt they would associated with an event on International Women's Day that focused on domestic violence by women against men; or on Mother's Day, which focused on child abuse, neglect, etc. by mothers, etc.

iptba · 19-11-2018 7:05pm

nullzero wrote: »

Broadsheet had it up, the first comment was from one of the resident Sjw's moaning about men complaining about international women's day.

Have a link to the article? I searched the site but could only find articles on "International Men's Day" from 2013 and 2014.

Outlaw Pete · 19-11-2018 7:15pm

silverharp wrote: »

not even a google doodle :pac:

You're right! The bastards! And they had this for the wimmin:

I'll NEVER use Google again, EVER!!!

Googles "Does Yahoo still exist?"

ToddyDoody · 19-11-2018 7:18pm

I remember in secondary schools (a large all boys school) being asked to read my friend's english essay to give any feedback I might have. (This is quite ironic in retrospect, given the fact I actually failed the subject in the end.)

Two things I remember. At 16, (at roughly the height of a boy / man's sexual peak), having no social outlet aside from the cinema is seen as really crap and if you are to do underage drinking, alcohol actually has feminising effects as it inhibits testosterone production (or something to that effect)

I really picked up on this fear of being feminised, at that age and possibly any age.

If you were to get into psychology, you'd describe how this pushing any feminine characteristics into the background as the moving it into the unconscious or the shadow of the personality. Freud would have called it.

While not ideal, foing this is how a man becomes a man. Having loved in the feminine world with the mother up until and beyond puberty, hypermasculinity is usually the way of killing the mother, which is very necessary.

The thing about it is - gender itself isn't as binary as you might imagine. If a man is 'all man', that means not that he has no feminity, it means the feminity has dosalpeared into the unconscious part of the psyche and plays out unconsciously which usually means idealising of women, who carry the unconscious feminine in the man.

The very same process is thought to work in women re: the unconscious masculine.

Anyways, the best messages I could give for the day - there is an inner as well as outer reality. Also, there is banal reality and a more numinous element to life also.

Yer Da sells Avon · 19-11-2018 7:18pm

silverharp wrote: »

not even a google doodle :pac:

I designed one for them last year, but they didn't even have the decency to respond.

ToddyDoody · 19-11-2018 7:19pm

(double post)

ToddyDoody · 19-11-2018 7:19pm

I remember in secondary school(a large all boys school) being asked to read my friend's english essay to give any feedback I might have. (This is quite ironic in retrospect, given the fact I actually failed the subject in the end.)

Two things I remember. At 16, (at roughly the height of a boy / man's sexual peak), having no social outlet aside from the cinema is seen as really crap and if you are to do underage drinking, alcohol actually has feminising effects as it inhibits testosterone production (or something to that effect)

I really picked up on this fear of being feminised, at that age and possibly any age.

If you were to get into psychology, you'd describe how this pushing any feminine characteristics into the background as the moving it into the unconscious or the shadow of the personality. Freud would have called it.

While not ideal, foing this is how a man becomes a man. Having loved in the feminine world with the mother up until and beyond puberty, hypermasculinity is usually the way of killing the mother, which is very necessary.

The thing about it is - gender itself isn't as binary as you might imagine. If a man is 'all man', that means not that he has no feminity, it means the feminity has dosalpeared into the unconscious part of the psyche and plays out unconsciously which usually means idealising of women, who carry the unconscious feminine in the man.

The very same process is thought to work in women re: the unconscious masculine.

Anyways, the best messages I could give for the day - there is an inner as well as outer reality. Also, there is banal reality and a more numinous element to life also.

suicide_circus · 19-11-2018 7:22pm

iptba wrote: »

So do I take it then that you are unhappy with some initiatives such as "women only professorships", "positive discrimination", gender quotas and efforts to equalise the number of men and women at the top level in academia and some other professions?

yes because I don't think equal distribution of genders in every facet of life is important. I'm not buying it. When i see the campaign for an equal distribution of genders down coal mines and collecting garbage then I might take it a little more seriously.

CinemaGuy45 · 19-11-2018 7:22pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I designed one for them last year, but they didn't even have the decency to respond.

I think the problem is you showed no balls.:P

19-11-2018 7:25pm

No real man will care. It’s just another ‘day’ created by morons for other morons to celebrate.

Might as well call it International Gobsheite Day.

iptba · 19-11-2018 7:36pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

yes because I don't think equal distribution of genders in every facet of life is important. I'm not buying it. When i see the campaign for an equal distribution of genders down coal mines and collecting garbage then I might take it a little more seriously.

OK, but the impact of there being more very high IQ men would be that even in professions that didn’t have a gender imbalance at lower levels, there could be at the very top levels.

19-11-2018 8:00pm

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I don't lend much thought at all to IMD, though I do find the different media reporting patterns surrounding it to be interesting.

For example I notice thejournal.ie hasn't one single article up today mentioning IMD that I can see, while IWD was plastered across the entire site, including the42.ie and the Daily edge. Don't have any gripe with this, just find it interesting is all.

Looking at Journal/daily edge regularly, everyday is womens day/women are always the victim and they never go a day without a poor women/evil men story ...Its basically written by 3rd wave feminist transition year students

Theres a male (sean murray I think) who writes on it and last year on IWC, he went on a twitter rant as he was walking behind a woman, and he thought he was making her uncomfortable so he crossed the road and took the long way back home to not make her uncomfortable....yeah that's pathetic

nullzero · 19-11-2018 8:17pm

iptba wrote: »

Have a link to the article? I searched the site but could only find articles on "International Men's Day" from 2013 and 2014.

A Limerick A Day - https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/11/19/a-limerick-a-day-1474/

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2018 11:14pm

JayZeus wrote: »

No real man will care. It’s just another ‘day’ created by morons for other morons to celebrate.

Might as well call it International Gobsheite Day.

I just can’t figure out why it doesn’t get as much attention as IWD. But at least it gives the fools an opportunity to whinge about how IMD is stupid AND IMD isn’t publicised like IWD, with a google doodle, which is because of feminists or women or summit.

VanGogh18 · 19-11-2018 11:19pm

happy mens day fellow men
and thanks for your support fellow females

in 40 minutes we can go back to fighting each other

givyjoe · 19-11-2018 11:59pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I just can’t figure out why it doesn’t get as much attention as IWD. But at least it gives the fools an opportunity to whinge about how IMD is stupid AND IMD isn’t publicised like IWD, with a google doodle, which is because of feminists or women or summit.

My god, you do an awful lot of whinging.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-11-2018 12:05am

iptba wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s what happens alright. The big brave bucks in the men’s forum couldn’t raise more than a ‘meh’ for International Men’s Day last year. Then whinged, bitched and moaned about how big and well publicised International Women’s Day was.

That's not true for everyone.

That’s true. You and I were 2 people who tried to get a
Conversation started about IMD last year. But it came to very little. The bulk of men were against IMD or at least completely apathetic. Do you remember the Wibbly Wobbly Wonder could only raise a ‘meh’ for IMD but got a raging hard-on for IWD. Apparently they were upset that IWD is bigger than IMD. Lol.

Amazingly, if a people ‘meh’ IMD and get excited about IWD, then IWD will become bigger.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-11-2018 12:11am

givyjoe wrote: »

My god, you do an awful lot of whinging.

However I do care about IMD and men’s issues. That’s something most of the ones who whine about feminism don’t give a toss about.

backspin. · 20-11-2018 12:23am

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I don't lend much thought at all to IMD, though I do find the different media reporting patterns surrounding it to be interesting.

For example I notice thejournal.ie hasn't one single article up today mentioning IMD that I can see, while IWD was plastered across the entire site, including the42.ie and the Daily edge. Don't have any gripe with this, just find it interesting is all.

Same with rte, their news programs (with the copious amount of women presenters) never mentioned it. They had time to talk about #WakingTheFeminist though. Grade A trolling.

Church on Tuesday · 20-11-2018 12:34am

The day has passed, but what a great initiative, hopefully over the coming years it will take off and gain more public consciousness and become more visual like Womens day is.

Look after yourself lads.

SnazzyPig · 20-11-2018 3:06am

iptba wrote: »

OK, but the impact of there being more very high IQ men would be that even in professions that didn’t have a gender imbalance at lower levels, there could be at the very top levels.

This sentence makes no sense to me. Could you expand/explicate what you mean by it?

Shenshen · 20-11-2018 10:10am

Amirani wrote: »

Nice article on the topic today in the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/19/feminist-celebrating-international-mens-day

Author: "Carys Afoko is the executive director and co-founder of Level Up, a community for feminists who want to work together to end sexism"

Content of the article took me very much by surprise having seen the author's description.

Thanks for that link. She's speaking like she's reading my mind, only I could never have put it into words as fittingly as she has.

iptba · 20-11-2018 3:15pm

SnazzyPig wrote: »

This sentence makes no sense to me. Could you expand/explicate what you mean by it?

Firstly, here is the correspondence:

suicide_circus wrote:

^^^^ oh absolutely but those cases don't disprove the rule. men are in prison more because they are ON AVERAGE more aggressive, violent, risk-taking and are over represented at the lower (and higher) end of the IQ scale.

iptba wrote:

Assuming men are more likely to have very, very IQ scores, it shouldn’t be seen as evidence of discrimination if more men are at the top of many professions, particularly ones like academic positions.

suicide_circus wrote:

quite the opposite actually.

iptba wrote:

So do I take it then that you are unhappy with some initiatives such as "women only professorships", "positive discrimination", gender quotas and efforts to equalise the number of men and women at the top level in academia and some other professions?

suicide_circus wrote:

yes because I don't think equal distribution of genders in every facet of life is important. I'm not buying it. When i see the campaign for an equal distribution of genders down coal mines and collecting garbage then I might take it a little more seriously.

iptba wrote:

OK, but the impact of there being more very high IQ men would be that even in professions that didn’t have a gender imbalance at lower levels, there could be at the very top levels.

Suicide_circus' last point might seem just to apply to fields where there were an unequal distribution of genders throughout the profession, e.g., those who work in coal mines or collect garbage.

However, if there are more men who have very very high IQ scores, even in other professions where there is more of a gender balance overall, more of the people with the very very high IQ scores in the profession could be male.

Gimme A Pound · 20-11-2018 9:29pm

None of the mocking that was imagined (hoped for) I see. Women don't give men a hard time here despite what some like to convince themselves. It's much more the other way around. If anything it's other men here who ridicule fellow men. I know there are obviously crazed man haters but they ain't here.

Overall though, women and men get on mostly fine here - there are worse places online.

I saw on another forum about this topic, questions being asked as to whether there were events marking it - I didn't ask there as it's a men's forum, but I was thinking "Why not set up your own events?"

Part of the reason why it's overlooked is: men themselves don't do anything to mark it. Why not light a candle instead of cursing the dark? Speak out against the notion that it's "toxic masculinity" that's the root of so many alarming stats when it comes to men's wellbeing (i.e. blaming men themselves) - as I saw a man say yesterday. Feck crazy women who have a problem with it - plenty of your sisters, mothers, grandmothers, daughters, wives, partners, friends, aunties and cousins are behind you.

eviltwin · 20-11-2018 9:34pm

It's a shame a day that could be used to focus on issues affecting men is used to complain about women. That has to be part of the problem, most men aren't interested in a gender war, they just want a spotlight on things that normally don't have a platform. IMD is a golden opportunity to do that but as usual it was wasted.

Silentcorner · 20-11-2018 9:46pm

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a shame a day that could be used to focus on issues affecting men is used to complain about women. That has to be part of the problem, most men aren't interested in a gender war, they just want a spotlight on things that normally don't have a platform. IMD is a golden opportunity to do that but as usual it was wasted.

Whether people like it or not, most men are not interested in a gender war but most men are in a gender war. If you are a male and work in a large organisation, your chances of being promoted have diminished fairly significantly.

If you are a dad, you're the vulnerable one!

The erosion of men's rights shows no signs of abating.

IMD was ignored by most media, which, incidentally ignores most male issues.

The debunked Gender Pay gap, with all the media exposure that receives, has no male equivalent.

We had a male Health Minister, on IMD, encouraged men to stop beating up women!! That is a little frightening I have to say.

Feisar · 20-11-2018 9:54pm

El_Duderino 09 · 20-11-2018 9:56pm

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a shame a day that could be used to focus on issues affecting men is used to complain about women. That has to be part of the problem, most men aren't interested in a gender war, they just want a spotlight on things that normally don't have a platform. IMD is a golden opportunity to do that but as usual it was wasted.

This is it, unfortunately. All the issues that would benefit from using IMD to raise awareness from mental health to domestic and sexual violence against men and treatment of men in family courts. Men who don't give tuppence about IMD will get all hot and bothered on Women's Day, faking outrage at how useful and well publicised it is and asking why nothing happens on IMD.

I brought IMD up in conversation a couple of times yesterday and the initial reaction was 'every day's men's day'. But then I mentioned suicide being the single biggest cause of death of young men, men falling behind in education and the assumption that women are the primary carer and given preferential treatment in family courts, in a world where both parents increasingly share parenting duties.

The people I spoke with were glad of the information. You can't expect other people to know the same things you know unless you actually share information.

One thing I know is that IMD will never become more useful as long as some clowns can only raise a 'meh' on IMD but feign outrage when Women's say is actually really useful to highlight women's issues.

eviltwin · 20-11-2018 10:02pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Whether people like it or not, most men are not interested in a gender war but most men are in a gender war. If you are a male and work in a large organisation, your chances of being promoted have diminished fairly significantly.

If you are a dad, you're the vulnerable one!

The erosion of men's rights shows no signs of abating.

IMD was ignored by most media, which, incidentally ignores most male issues.

The debunked Gender Pay gap, with all the media exposure that receives, has no male equivalent.

We had a male Health Minister, on IMD, encouraged men to stop beating up women!! That is a little frightening I have to say.

I don't disagree with the above but I think on IMD it's better to be proactive rather than reactive. If the events are leaving something to be desired, start your own. I asked my husband yesterday if work marked the day, his workplace is 90% male, and his answer was no. He says no one is interested in it which is a real shame. IWD didn't just appear, it started as grassroots events that go no attention, it took time and persistence to get traction. Its taken years to get it to what it is today. I feel some men expect the attention without being willing to put in the work.

Feisar · 20-11-2018 10:11pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't disagree with the above but I think on IMD it's better to be proactive rather than reactive. If the events are leaving something to be desired, start your own. I asked my husband yesterday if work marked the day, his workplace is 90% male, and his answer was no. He says no one is interested in it which is a real shame. IWD didn't just appear, it started as grassroots events that go no attention, it took time and persistence to get traction. Its taken years to get it to what it is today. I feel some men expect the attention without being willing to put in the work.

To what end though?

I'm Male so:

I know to get my prostate checked as I get older for cancer
Suicide/depression is a big killer, I'll watch that, in my profession it's 3 times the average
Domestic violence isn't recognised, if the wife goes down that road I'll give her road.
Family courts don't give men a fair hearing; I'll go on the doll. Can't get blood from a stone.

Honestly I thing IWD/IMD are a blown up by interest groups, particularly IWD. For instance my wife would rather I got a promotion rather than a more qualified female counterpart even if it was down to me golfing with the boss. Reason being her unit/team has more money.

Silentcorner · 20-11-2018 10:20pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't disagree with the above but I think on IMD it's better to be proactive rather than reactive. If the events are leaving something to be desired, start your own. I asked my husband yesterday if work marked the day, his workplace is 90% male, and his answer was no. He says no one is interested in it which is a real shame. IWD didn't just appear, it started as grassroots events that go no attention, it took time and persistence to get traction. Its taken years to get it to what it is today. I feel some men expect the attention without being willing to put in the work.

I would respectfully disagree, I think some men are frustrated at the seemingly never ending feminist narrative in media, and can you blame them?

We see the same frustration with other unquestioned narratives in our national media.

It is not until you find yourself passed over for promotion, or find yourself ejected from your home, with limited access to your kids that may well begin to realise how far things have gone...if you are a young man you're at a distinct disadvantage entering the workforce than you did only ten years ago!

But Academia, Media, and hence Politicians seem only exposed to a very lob sided view of gender inequality...I honestly don't know where it is going to end...it's everywhere!

up for anything · 20-11-2018 10:43pm

It amazes me how women have only been getting equal rights bit by bit in the last fifty years and how loudly men are complaining about the results of that. There weren't a huge amount of men in the preceding millennia campaigning and demanding that women should be treated more fairly, equally and humanely. No, women had to fight for changes themselves with the help of some good men. IWD and the events that take place and the publicity it gets in the media is largely driven by women. Whereas men just don't give a ****e about IMD as proven over and over and over again by some of the posts in this thread. IMD will be what you make it, lads, but it seems like none of you can be arsed to make anything of it. Are you waiting for women to do it for you?

YFlyer · 20-11-2018 10:57pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But then I mentioned suicide being the single biggest cause of death of young men, men falling behind in education and the assumption that women are the primary carer and given preferential treatment in family courts, in a world where both parents increasingly share parenting duties.

The people I spoke with were glad of the information. You can't expect other people to know the same things you know unless you actually share information.

All those points are well known.

One eyed Jack · 20-11-2018 11:00pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Whether people like it or not, most men are not interested in a gender war but most men are in a gender war. If you are a male and work in a large organisation, your chances of being promoted have diminished fairly significantly.

Your basis for the perception of a gender war is more women entering the workforce and men dropping out because they can’t be arsed? Your chances of being promoted are the same as they always were, it’s just that now the criteria for promotion have changed to make promotions open to more people. If that’s the basis upon which your complaint rests, that’s really not a good argument - “nothing is going my way any more”.

If you are a dad, you're the vulnerable one!

Completely untrue, and I say that as a separated father who is my child’s primary carer, in the family home. This outcome has nothing to do with my sex, and neither are any outcomes in the Family Courts solely based upon anyone’s sex.

The erosion of men's rights shows no signs of abating.

There’s that difference in perception again. Men’s rights are not being eroded. Men still have and retain the same legal rights they always did, and now women are gaining equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunities in areas where they didn’t have equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunities before.

IMD was ignored by most media, which, incidentally ignores most male issues.

The debunked Gender Pay gap, with all the media exposure that receives, has no male equivalent.

Can’t open a newspaper or turn on tv without appeals to men to look after their health and get regular checkups and so on for the various issues that specifically relate to men. The media certainly do not ignore most male issues, in fact they make plenty of money out of promoting issues they imagine are relevant to men, in particular the gap between male and female suicide rates.

We had a male Health Minister, on IMD, encouraged men to stop beating up women!! That is a little frightening I have to say.

As much as I have no time for him, it’s an issue that men need to address, that only men can address, so it seems perfectly appropriate on IMD to want to highlight it, or would you really rather the insufferable and patronising talking bollocks that women are exposed to on IWD?

In the interests of disclosure, I have no interest in either day, and I’m certainly no feminist either, but people are right to point out that one of the main reasons why IWD is as popular as it is, is because people put in the work to promote it, and the reason some men are feeling like they’re getting the shìtty end of the stick is because they never experienced any real challenge to their perceived dominant position in society before now. Naturally any challenge to their position is going to knock them off course depending upon its momentum.

YFlyer · 20-11-2018 11:14pm

Men that do the beating up should address it.

Silentcorner · 20-11-2018 11:30pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Your basis for the perception of a gender war is more women entering the workforce and men dropping out because they can’t be arsed? Your chances of being promoted are the same as they always were, it’s just that now the criteria for promotion have changed to make promotions open to more people. If that’s the basis upon which your complaint rests, that’s really not a good argument - “nothing is going my way any more”.

Completely untrue, and I say that as a separated father who is my child’s primary carer, in the family home. This outcome has nothing to do with my sex, and neither are any outcomes in the Family Courts solely based upon anyone’s sex.

There’s that difference in perception again. Men’s rights are not being eroded. Men still have and retain the same legal rights they always did, and now women are gaining equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunities in areas where they didn’t have equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunities before.

Can’t open a newspaper or turn on tv without appeals to men to look after their health and get regular checkups and so on for the various issues that specifically relate to men. The media certainly do not ignore most male issues, in fact they make plenty of money out of promoting issues they imagine are relevant to men, in particular the gap between male and female suicide rates.

As much as I have no time for him, it’s an issue that men need to address, that only men can address, so it seems perfectly appropriate on IMD to want to highlight it, or would you really rather the insufferable and patronising talking bollocks that women are exposed to on IWD?

In the interests of disclosure, I have no interest in either day, and I’m certainly no feminist either, but people are right to point out that one of the main reasons why IWD is as popular as it is, is because people put in the work to promote it, and the reason some men are feeling like they’re getting the shìtty end of the stick is because they never experienced any real challenge to their perceived dominant position in society before now. Naturally any challenge to their position is going to knock them off course depending upon its momentum.

So I'm wrong about everything then, sorry about that....I'll just use future IMDs to focus on abstaining from beating the s##t out of women then....

One eyed Jack · 20-11-2018 11:50pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Men that do the beating up should address it.

Silentcorner wrote: »

So I'm wrong about everything then, sorry about that....I'll just use future IMDs to focus on abstaining from beating the s##t out of women then....

Wasn’t that the point that the Minister was making?

SC you used the example of a male Minister for health encouraging men to stop beating up women -

We had a male Health Minister, on IMD, encouraged men to stop beating up women!! That is a little frightening I have to say.

What’s frightening about it? You’d only have reason to be frightened if you were a man who beats up women, and I think the Minister has a point in suggesting that it’s an issue that men need to address, because it’s highly unlikely that men who beat up women are actually going to take other women seriously. Other men though...

ligerdub · 20-11-2018 11:52pm

eviltwin wrote:

I don't disagree with the above but I think on IMD it's better to be proactive rather than reactive. If the events are leaving something to be desired, start your own. I asked my husband yesterday if work marked the day, his workplace is 90% male, and his answer was no. He says no one is interested in it which is a real shame. IWD didn't just appear, it started as grassroots events that go no attention, it took time and persistence to get traction. Its taken years to get it to what it is today. I feel some men expect the attention without being willing to put in the work.

Work marked the day by being his employer, which helps him keeps his livelihood. His employer/company is probably too busy going about their commercial activity....you know....a business, to spend their time recognising IMD and having some sort of men only talk or 2 hour mens lunch, leaving the 10% who aren't men to do work in their absence.

We don't have enough information from your message to assess the likelihood of this employer to get involved in social issues. I'd assume (perhaps incorrectly so) that it's a small company. It tends to be larger corporations (particularly ones where there's cache in the company promoting diversity hires) that get involved in this, they are thinly disguised marketing campaigns There's little value in IMD for those businesses. Efforts might have increased recently due to backlash against a feeling of one-way traffic in gender equality issues. Places like finance and tech companies are all over IWD, it suits them to promote themselves as champions of women in the workplace. There have been photos up all week of people posing with "fearless girl". What exactly is a company going to get out of promoting their top male staff, or otherwise any other male orientated promotion? Nothing.

I used to work for a quasi public sector body, an employer of a large number of people. They prided themselves on being champions of diversity and LGBT issues. Every so often they would hold a "womens network" event, as part of their diversity panel. Invariably they would be long talks during workhours, many of which were women only events, except of course for the white knight senior manager. This was a man who had already climbed the ladder, and now saw no danger of preferential hiring policy biased towards women. In fact, it was currency for him in his career now, good personal branding. Aside from him it was all women, all Irish, probably all raised in the christian faith, similar education backgrounds, all white. Hurray for diversity! This is the sort of thing that's commonplace now.

HR control the message. Fat chance of anything good happening for anyone trying to independently hold a mens network in there, and/or most other places of employment. Like it or not these days are largely work related events, so it's not just a case of men putting the work. I think most men would inherently prefer gender to be taken out of equation, because invariably when you are promoting one cause there is subtly or not so subtly, an injured party. If you're a sufferer or mental health problems, drug use, homelessness, violent attacks, sexual abuse, domestic violence etc., then you should be able to get the same high quality of assistance as anyone else. Highlighting one gender over another does little to harmonise or help the majority, particularly when one side has a more sympathetic audience than the other.

Silentcorner · 21-11-2018 12:00am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Wasn’t that the point that was making?

SC you used the example of a male Minister for health encouraging men to stop beating up women -

What’s frightening about it? You’d only have reason to be frightened if you were a man who beats up women, and I think the Minister has a point in suggesting that it’s an issue that men need to address, because it’s highly unlikely that men who beat up women are actually going to take other women seriously. Other men though...

Ah come here....I didn't think I'd have to spell this out.

Domestic violence and abuse is perpetrated on both genders by both genders.

IMD was an opportunity to highlight male victims of domestic abuse...

If you are unwilling to accept that then I don't see the point in even discussing it.

Now, it should also be recognised that we do not have an epidemic of spousal abuse in Ireland thankfully, but it is sinister to project all blame for domestic abuse onto one gender!

One eyed Jack · 21-11-2018 12:16am

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ah come here....I didn't think I'd have to spell this out.

Domestic violence and abuse is perpetrated on both genders by both genders.

IMD was an opportunity to highlight male victims of domestic abuse...

If you are unwilling to accept that then I don't see the point in even discussing it.

Now, it should also be recognised that we do not have an epidemic of spousal abuse in Ireland thankfully, but it is sinister to project all blame for domestic abuse onto one gender!

Oh absolutely I accept that.

Do you accept that men are entitled on International Men’s Day to speak about issues that matter to them?

Simon Harris is absolutely within his right to address other men with an issue he feels strongly enough about to raise with men on International Men’s Day. That’s the whole bloody point of IMD - for men to raise issues that matter to them.

You completely missed the point if you imagine men are the real victims in anything the Minister said. That just shows your own bias in complaining that a man didn’t talk about what you want him to talk about, he talked about something that matters to him.

Nowhere was there any suggestion made that you can’t talk about issues that matter to you, and that’s why I have no interest in IMD. You say it was an opportunity to highlight male victims of domestic violence - sure I do that myself every fcuking day, I don’t need a special day for it. I also do the same for women. There’s no conflict whatsoever between the two issues from either perspective, only the conflict that’s in your imagination that you are entirely responsible for with your perceptions and claims that anyone, whether they are a man or a woman, is part of some “gender war” nonsense.

You’re speaking for yourself on that one.

YFlyer · 21-11-2018 12:18am

lol

Happy International Men's Day!

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