Super Mario 3D All-Stars

Satturnfalls · 18-09-2020 12:34pm

I played a few mins on Mario 64. any one else find the C camera a bit Awkward?

CastorTroy · 18-09-2020 12:52pm

Picked mine up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrATmeFoJPE

(ignore the last 10 seconds.

)

18-09-2020 1:21pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

They were ground up remakes with a brand new engine using the source code of the originals to get the physics right.

Basically the new engine facilitated the camera. It wasn't a rom hack.

And saying the code could just be reused is a gross simplification of how game development works.

In fairness you were not exactly "correct" on your several categorical assertions yesterday were you lol.

In any case from just the small sample size of initial reactions here you can see that perhaps they could have bothered just a little bit more on Mario 64. handheld controls on Galaxy not up to scratch either.

they are very good games as I said but actually Nintendo did not do them justice here by not bothering to put their best foot forward- which is a disappointing dis-service to the games really.

It's nice for people to have them on switch but it can't be said that a better job couldn't have been done

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Playing a bit of Mario 64 now controls and camera haven't aged well!

chrislad wrote: »

Yup, just getting back into it. The camera is frustrating alright!

Satturnfalls wrote: »

I played a few mins on Mario 64. any one else find the C camera a bit Awkward?

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I've only played Super Mario 64 so far.

It's great fun. Brings me right back. Some niggles that are clearly due to the advance in tech

McFly85 wrote: »

Just did the first few stars of Galaxy, The controls in handheld are understandably slightly annoying at times but I think will be fine after some getting used to-but I do plan to use the TV for it when I can.

hellsing101 · 18-09-2020 1:25pm

R.F. wrote: »

anyone else get delayed from GameStop online?

I know they have a bad rep but the last 3 switch games I preordered arrived a day early so wasn’t too worried about this.

Hope I get it Monday

Got the email Thursday lunchtime that they were being delayed, Gamestop gone to ****e altogether, pre-ordered Deadly Premonition 2 and on the Thursday evening before launch got an email that they weren't getting any copies and they refunded me, no wonder they are going out of business.

Coybig_ · 18-09-2020 1:35pm

Would be interesting to see who out of those who complained is playing it handheld vs docked, and also who is using pro controller etc.

Havent turned it on yet myself, but a friend has told me that it's much better docked with the pro controller.

Retr0gamer · 18-09-2020 1:54pm

glasso wrote: »

In fairness you were not exactly "correct" on your several categorical assertions yesterday were you lol.

You not accepting them and not understanding game development doesn't make them incorrect.

18-09-2020 1:56pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You not accepting them and not understanding game development doesn't make them incorrect.

lol for one you said that it took the x-axis rom hack guy ages but he did it in 100 lines of code which was just re-assigning input values and he said that it was easy in his video.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Amateur hackers took years to implement that hack

And you can take a pretty good guess that the second analogue hack took a huge amount of time and effort going by the hackers notes and also how long it actually took to be released and how much of a bodge job it had to be to get working

hackers notes lol - completely made up

Retr0gamer · 18-09-2020 2:12pm

glasso wrote: »

lol for one you said that it took the x-axis rom hack guy ages but he did it in 100 lines of code which was just re-assigning input values and he said that it was easy in his video.

hackers notes lol - completely made up

I already explained that 100 lines of code could take a long time to write. And said 100 lines of code were probably reduced down from an initial project to make it more efficient.

And yes hackers notes. The hacker has detailed the development on Github. Loads of interesting information there about the process.

Game development and hacking isn't as easy or simple as you think.

18-09-2020 2:20pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I already explained that 100 lines of code could take a long time to write. And said 100 lines of code were probably reduced down from an initial project to make it more efficient.

And yes hackers notes. The hacker has detailed the development on Github. Loads of interesting information there about the process.

Game development and hacking isn't as easy or simple as you think.

the developer himself, in the youtube video went through it as a trivial exercise involving re-assigning input values which is just swapping coordinates around into different variables - no "AI Engine" required!

You're looking at a different piece of work on github btw, not the guy I referenced with short piece of code. as he said here "It was that simple the whole time"
https://youtu.be/85cvMzz8HUI?t=73

in any case, MOVING ON - the proof is in the pudding on Nintendo's offering here - very good games of course but not brought together with the effort they should have been provided with.

Doodah7 · 18-09-2020 2:25pm

My God, can we just get over this issue PLEASE!!!

chrislad · 18-09-2020 2:59pm

I gave Mario Sunshine and Galaxy a quick spin too.

Sunshine plays and looks great - though I miss the long, crouch jump!

I played Galaxy on both handheld and tabletop mode. Detached controllers definitely better, so I may go docked for this one. Handheld isn't bad, but you're basically removing the star bits and their use in this mode.

CiDeRmAn · 18-09-2020 3:06pm

How does the lack of analogue FLUDD control affect the game?
I can't wait to play Sunshine through, I got stuck the first time, some 18 years ago!

God, but there is so much amazing content is this compilation, can't wait to play it later on.

evad_lhorg · 18-09-2020 3:39pm

Forgot I had this ordered with Smyths. Kinda in two minds about picking it up.

Might keep it sealed for a while while I play Bloodstained.

Retr0gamer · 18-09-2020 3:42pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

How does the lack of analogue FLUDD control affect the game?

Just gives you much finer controls. With analogue you can adjust if you over shoot by letting off on the trigger. without it you have to awkwardly move or reposition.

xckjoo · 18-09-2020 3:56pm

chrislad wrote: »

Yup, just getting back into it. The camera is frustrating alright! Not terrible, but things have moved on considerably, and stopping to refocus does take the momentum out. There's nothing wrong per se, it's just that games have moved on and we've gotten too used to more modern comforts!

I remember when it came out that the camera was seen as revolutionary because it worked so much better than other 3D games

fifth · 18-09-2020 5:46pm

It's nice to have this, picked up from Smyths. But the camera in 64 is kind of ruining the fun for me now.

Edit: I see this has already been discussed.

18-09-2020 8:27pm

fifth wrote: »

It's nice to have this, picked up from Smyths. But the camera in 64 is kind of ruining the fun for me now.

Edit: I see this has already been discussed.

it's laughably bad unfortunately

Doctor Jimbob · 18-09-2020 9:31pm

glasso wrote: »

it's laughably bad unfortunately

It's shocking that they've charged full price for this to be honest. Compared to the Crash and Spyro collections this is rubbish.

CiDeRmAn · 18-09-2020 9:45pm

Honestly, spent an hour with SM64 and the camera didn't bother me at all.
And I'm as bored of the camera talk as everyone else.

The conversation is boring everyone, I believe.
So, by all means, make a new thread on the SM3DAllstars camera and discuss it there, insulated from everyone else who is actually enjoying the game.

RocketRaccoon · 18-09-2020 9:45pm

glasso wrote: »

it's laughably bad unfortunately

Did you buy the game and play it?

18-09-2020 10:02pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Did you buy the game and play it?

No I didn't buy "Mario 3D All-stars"

That's why I'm "insulated" from trying to convince myself that it's a great buy!

For some people, Nintendo could package a turd and they'd buy it.

I have Mario 64. As nothing wrt to the camera and controls have changed and it's such good emulation I know exactly what it's like as I can play the same thing!

As it says here - this is Nintendo at its worst, purely because it can get away with it.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/18/super-mario-3d-all-stars-is-nintendo-at-its-worst/

Coybig_ · 18-09-2020 10:10pm

I genuinely dont know why somebody who hasnt even bought the game is so upset about it and telling everyone how bad it is.

Ok, we all get it. God forbid somebody might come in here to talk about a level or something, nope, back to the Mario 64 camera.

The game is what it is and everyone in here will be well aware of that. We dont need somebody who hasnt bought it to tell us what idiots we are for having bought it!

Doctor Jimbob · 18-09-2020 10:17pm

Coybig_ wrote: »

I genuinely dont know why somebody who hasnt even bought the game is so upset about it and telling everyone how bad it is.

Ok, we all get it. God forbid somebody might come in here to talk about a level or something, nope, back to the Mario 64 camera.

The game is what it is and everyone in here will be well aware of that. We dont need somebody who hasnt bought it to tell us what idiots we are for having bought it!

I bought it and feel like a bit of an idiot tbh. I hadn't played any of the games before and had always heard how good they are. Only played 64 so far and it's undeniably a fun game but it just feels so lazy that they released it like this. It's not just the camera, I'm getting used to that, it's the fact it's not been updated in any meaningful way.

18-09-2020 10:19pm

I really don't see how you can talk about a level when they have all been seen before - nothing new is added.

I considered getting it but I just think that it's a half-arsed and cynical exercise by Nintendo so will spend my money on something new and excellent like Hades

In a lean year for switch so far 3D All-Stars is barely scraping into the Switch top 20 (tie 18th to 22nd but will drop further) on metacritic which says a lot

chrislad · 18-09-2020 10:25pm

And moving back along.

I forgot how RAGE inducing some of the FLUDDless levels in Mario Sunshine are. Grrraaaarrgh!

Coybig_ · 18-09-2020 10:26pm

I didnt buy it to see anything new added, I bought it to have a collection of my favourite games, some of which I havent played in years, in one place on a console I currently own.

I dont care about metacritic reviews, I dont care about what other games are available, I dont care that they havent revolutionised the camera system in Mario 64.

You do and we have had 3 pages of you telling everyone how bad it is, ok fair enough, can you not do us a favour now and take a day off from moaning about a game you dont own?

18-09-2020 10:39pm

Coybig_ wrote: »

I didnt buy it to see anything new added, I bought it to have a collection of my favourite games, some of which I havent played in years, in one place on a console I currently own.

I dont care about metacritic reviews, I dont care about what other games are available, I dont care that they havent revolutionised the camera system in Mario 64.

You do and we have had 3 pages of you telling everyone how bad it is, ok fair enough, can you not do us a favour now and take a day off from moaning about a game you dont own?

look unfortunately there was a long discussion about the camera thing with that Retrogamer person

nevertheless I don't believe that a software release has to be an echo chamber of only warm positive feelings for people that bought it

as this is not a new game and nothing new has been added or changed (aside from some processed upscaling) , it's quite possible to judge it as many have played these IP's before in full

if it's so good, having just received it today shouldn't you really be off playing it!

Fysh · 18-09-2020 11:33pm

My copy was delivered at 10am, but between normal work and being on the rota for out-of-hours work today I only got to fire it up an hour or so.

The presentation is on the basic side, but it'll do. I played around 20 mins of 64 before switching over to Sunshine. I never played 64 on release and first got to play it on the Wii VC about 10 years ago, by which point it was never going to make a great first impression - so by and large for me it was always going to be the least appealing part of the set.

Sunshine, though... having proper widescreen support is nice, and the game itself still has the same charm and appeal I remember from the GC original. The controls, for the half hour or so I played, feel a bit clumsy - chiefly not being able to invert the vertical control on FLUDD and clicking to switch between up close and far camera/aiming mode - but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it again. The main thing is, I'm looking forward to exploring Isle Delfino again and going Shine hunting.

I may actually save Galaxy until I'm done with Sunshine. I never completed it on the Wii and still have it, so may do a comparison to see how the controls compare. But now I have the choice of how and where I play it

Ol' Donie · 18-09-2020 11:45pm

Bout to fire this up.

Can't believe anyone is whinging about the price or anything else for that matter.

earthwormjack · 18-09-2020 11:48pm

Been a long time since I've played 64 and the camera can be a little iffy at times, but the soundtrack is a thing of beauty.

Doctor Jimbob · 18-09-2020 11:55pm

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Bout to fire this up.

Can't believe anyone is whinging about the price or anything else for that matter.

Why? The Crash and Spyro updates that came out a few years ago gave the games modern graphics. 64 in this doesn't even fit a wide-screen TV. It's a fairly lazy effort for a full price game.

Having said that I'm getting used to the controls in 64 now and having more fun with it, and based on what the poster above you said I've given Sunshine a go and it seems a lot more fun.

nix · 19-09-2020 12:10am

glasso wrote: »

In a lean year for switch so far 3D All-Stars is barely scraping into the Switch top 20 (tie 18th to 22nd but will drop further) on metacritic which says a lot

Id say majority of the negative scores are from people like yourself, complaining that they didnt polish/remaster the games.

I myself havent owned any of the games in this bundle, so im happy to play them in their original state. And i have zero fuss about that considering each of these games scored massively in their day, and considering the type of game they are, id say they will still be great to play.

So save your energy maybe for new games coming out and not classics that didnt get the lick of paint you wanted.. Some people just care about the gameplay, especially with Mario. :P

Ol' Donie · 19-09-2020 12:16am

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why? The Crash and Spyro updates that came out a few years ago gave the games modern graphics. 64 in this doesn't even fit a wide-screen TV. It's a fairly lazy effort for a full price game.

Having said that I'm getting used to the controls in 64 now and having more fun with it, and based on what the poster above you said I've given Sunshine a go and it seems a lot more fun.

I don't want modern graphics. I want these excellent games exactly as they were.

iamtony · 19-09-2020 12:18am

Was playing this today and came on here to share the joy but u fortunately this is what I get:D

I knew what I was buying. I mostly played Mario 64 and really enjoyed it but I'm a retro fan.

Only thing I'm disappointed with is no galaxy 2:(

Anyway happy gaming x.

Ol' Donie · 19-09-2020 12:20am

Oh yes, I've remembered I have the Switch Gamecube Smash controller!

Doctor Jimbob · 19-09-2020 12:23am

Ol' Donie wrote: »

I don't want modern graphics. I want these excellent games exactly as they were.

I think that's a fair outlook. Do you not think it would have been cool if they gave people the option though? Like you can pick whether you want to play the old version or an updated version.

I think I might just have expected too much of Mario 64 after my wife hyping it to me for the past two years tbh though. It could have been game of the century and I'd still have felt let down!

blockfighter · 19-09-2020 1:03am

iamtony wrote: »

Was playing this today and came on here to share the joy but u fortunately this is what I get:D

I knew what I was buying. I mostly played Mario 64 and really enjoyed it but I'm a retro fan.

Only thing I'm disappointed with is no galaxy 2:(

Anyway happy gaming x.

More of these kinda messages in this thread please. Happy gaming.

Greyfox · 19-09-2020 1:06am

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Do you not think it would have been cool if they gave people the option though?

The option would of been cool, the problem is a minority are expecting something that was never promised.

johnny_ultimate · 19-09-2020 3:01am

Booted up Mario Sunshine and you can definitely tell it’s a GameCube game. A very good one, don’t get me wrong.

Booted up Mario Galaxy and had I not played it 13 years ago you’d easily fool me into thinking that it’s brand new. That game is a miracle of polish and visual design. It’s obviously had a spit shine, but by god did Nintendo get it very, very right back in 2007. Can’t think of many games that hold up quite so well two console generations later. One of the greatest games ever made.

Chardee MacDennis · 19-09-2020 4:15am

Reading through this thread be like
P-LGWPUlGc0oZ9VuFuUkb6N-1t5-8rZ5K144bCySk4tAsrrMuJTScCSmQQOb1lxZVYN6dnQ9NXWLWnCQsBt4maJFyUlhZRyO8WyASfofx1cKosptkYnnvYR5b5GTbaAWsk2kxy-u6q6G7B_u2FGcDMCbyH5g2D5mAeQ

P-LGWPUlGc0oZ9VuFuUkb6N-1t5-8rZ5K144bCySk4tAsrrMuJTScCSmQQOb1lxZVYN6dnQ9NXWLWnCQsBt4maJFyUlhZRyO8WyASfofx1cKosptkYnnvYR5b5GTbaAWsk2kxy-u6q6G7B_u2FGcDMCbyH5g2D5mAeQ

Also didn't get mine in GameStop today as it hadn't arrived. They said it would be hopefully there tomorrow

WeleaseWoderick · 19-09-2020 9:53am

Played the first few stars in each game last night. The moaning really isn't justified in my eyes.

Mario 64 looks better than it ever has before. Would have hated it to look like one of those Unreal Engine fan videos that show up every now and then. Camera definitely isn't as good as modern games but it nowhere near a deal breaker.

Sunshine looks great with the new widescreen mode and I'm already looking forward to getting enough Shines to brighten up Delfino Island to see how it looks then. Controls took a bit of getting used to but already fine after a few mins.

Mario Galaxy could easily be released today as a new game and would still stand out as being great. It looks glorious in docked mode and even playing in handheld mode the touch screen works much better than I expected.

All in all, looking forward to playing through all 3 simultaneously over the next month.

Retr0gamer · 19-09-2020 10:06am

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why? The Crash and Spyro updates that came out a few years ago gave the games modern graphics. 64 in this doesn't even fit a wide-screen TV. It's a fairly lazy effort for a full price game.

Having said that I'm getting used to the controls in 64 now and having more fun with it, and based on what the poster above you said I've given Sunshine a go and it seems a lot more fun.

They ruined the physics though in those games. They feel very different from the originals. Nintendo like to keep their games authentic to the original experience and the crash and spyro updates would not have past muster for nintendo. Emulation is the best way to get the games accurate without an excessive amount of trial and error and engine rebuilding.

Widescreen not being in mario 64 is a weird one. That should be easy but it could be due to camera clipping issues or field of view being hard to edit in the original engine. Strange it's in sunshine although I heard the game might have been built around widescreen which was left out in the rush to release it.

RocketRaccoon · 19-09-2020 10:10am

So has anyone managed to get a copy from gamestop? Seems odd they don't have any and it's out of stock on their website.

sniper_samurai · 19-09-2020 11:09am

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

So has anyone managed to get a copy from gamestop? Seems odd they don't have any and it's out of stock on their website.

Just got a call from the store I ordered from saying it arrived with this mornings delivery.

It's out of stock on the website because GameStop sold out their allocation on preorders.

Smyths still have hundreds of copies available according to their website.

Retr0gamer · 19-09-2020 11:21am

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

So has anyone managed to get a copy from gamestop? Seems odd they don't have any and it's out of stock on their website.

Mine only shipped Friday. Said there was a delay in getting stock. Was kind of in the mood for Mario 64 this weekend

Fysh · 19-09-2020 12:55pm

Played some more of Sunshine this morning and found out that ZL does two things - it realigns the camera, but if held down also locks Mario into a "strafe" mode, to make it a bit easier to aim the spray without having to stand still. Thought I'd mention it as I don't think it's in the control list in-game.

Also, I'm starting to remember the challenge/frustration of some of the FLUDD-less levels. Hopefully my platforming skills haven't atrophied too much since the first time I played it through, some of those levels were damn hard first time round!

Retr0gamer · 19-09-2020 1:12pm

The fluddless levels were insanely rough but nothing is worse than the pachinko and that stupid leaf level.

johnny_ultimate · 19-09-2020 1:16pm

I only played a few hours of Sunshine back in the day (hence why it’s the main attraction in this collection for me), but yeah the platforming is fairly rough. Things like simply trying to land on a tightrope are the things that would be brilliantly snappy in any other Mario game, but feel off and awkward in Sunshine.

Still lots to love though: using your water spray as a propeller in the water is the kind of witty game feel flourish that Nintendo excel at.

fixXxer · 19-09-2020 1:24pm

Mario Galaxy is actually a thing of beauty. I had only played a little bit of it when I had a Wii before I sold the lot, but going back to it now is just wow. Played with the Pro controller at first but the detached Joycons is definitely the way to go.

I almost feel that Sunshine has aged least gracefully of the three. Mario 3D you kind of expect it to feel like a history lesson or something.

Fysh · 19-09-2020 2:49pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The fluddless levels were insanely rough but nothing is worse than the pachinko and that stupid leaf level.

I don't even remember either of those, and I know for a fact I completed the game

:o No doubt I'll find out soon enough.

The tightrope stuff is definitely lacking in polish - you can see certain bits where it's close to the intention, but it's too inconsistent and finicky at times.

Turns out I still really like the game, though

Super Mario 3D All-Stars

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