Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

spurious · 14-04-2020 4:42pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Just discussing what may or may not happen so keep your FFS, tnx

There is zero chance the SEC will enter into contracts with people and not pay them.

km79 · 14-04-2020 4:48pm

Will we get an update from SC ? Not that I expect much change now

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 14-04-2020 5:02pm

spurious wrote: »

There is zero chance the SEC will enter into contracts with people and not pay them.

If you know for definite I'll take that as gospel so

Millem · 14-04-2020 5:05pm

Sec have not appointed anyone yet as a superintendent.
The rates of mileage/subsistence and daily rate will be in the envelope with the appointment letter.
People can take it or leave then.

km79 · 14-04-2020 5:43pm

On matt Cooper now
A students view - I assume she was representing the now all powerful student Union
A parents view - she spoke very very well and made a lot of sense .
Again making the point that two weeks is not viewed as enough .
I again not two important words in the ministers proposal “at least “ 2 weeks
(Turns our she is an Irish Indo journalist ......)

Peter Lydon on for teacher view - commenting on class contact time . Speaking very well.
“Department have even shocking “

deiseindublin · 14-04-2020 5:50pm

Áine Hyland on DriveTime Radio 1 now, 17.49 start.

km79 · 14-04-2020 5:51pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

Áine Hyland on DriveTime Radio 1 now, 17.49 start.

Whatever she says will be listened to

km79 · 14-04-2020 5:55pm

Student making a very valid point about contingency of a single student gets sick with covid 19............

It’s just a crazy crazy mess now
And when they try and sort it it will probably get bigger

HerrKuehn · 14-04-2020 6:12pm

km79 wrote: »

Student making a very valid point about contingency of a single student gets sick with covid 19............

It’s just a crazy crazy mess now
And when they try and sort it it will probably get bigger

What is the solution then?

Treppen · 14-04-2020 6:14pm

km79 wrote: »

Student making a very valid point about contingency of a single student gets sick with covid 19............

It’s just a crazy crazy mess now
And when they try and sort it it will probably get bigger

I get the feeling it's all window dressing.
In the end it's going to be predicted grades (not that I'm advocating for that!).

deiseindublin · 14-04-2020 6:43pm

But, there will be contingency arrangements this year, as per last year, so that is covered I would have thought.

km79 · 14-04-2020 6:51pm

HerrKuehn wrote: »

What is the solution then?

Build Minister McHugh a time machine. Put him in it. Tell him not to heap more stress on and demotivate both teachers and students over the Easter holiday. Tell him to consult with ALL stakeholders and then come back after Easter with a well thought out plan !

Seriously though it is purely firefighting for his proposal now

Award all practical elements 100% - it is grossly unfair that some have and some have not. This will also help alleviate stress, free up study time and also save money which as we know is what is behind a lot of this. It will also reduce risks to teachers who will not have to travel around various schools inspecting various projects. And to students......the Ag Practical involves student interviews for example. Madness.
Cancel the JC completely. I have outlined the reasons why earlier on thread but in short it is pointless in September and creates more issues than it solves.

MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL
Engage with all key stakeholders NOW. Come up with a contingency now in the event that the LC is cancelled at a later date. This is likely imo. So they need to be ready.

km79 · 14-04-2020 7:14pm

https://www.asti.ie/news/asti-will-work-to-support-delayed-leaving-certificate/

Going exactly as predicted

I do note they use the term “face to face “ rather than classroom though
Interesting

TheDriver · 14-04-2020 7:36pm

The ASTI statement is nicely said. We're all in this together but we must agree on it too. Love the wellbeing line at the end, nicely thrown in.

It wasnt me123 · 14-04-2020 8:50pm

Just joined this thread so not sure if this has been put forward. I have a daughter supposedly doing LC in June 2020.

Why can't all the students who have completed 90+% of the curriculum and do not need points (like work or apprenticeships, etc) and have particpated in school for the last two years - this is easily checked by the school's records - get given a pass Leaving Certificate. No other grade just a pass to allow them to get on with their lives.

There is approximately 46,000 sitting LC this year. Of those possibly 50% go to college, the rest work, apprenticeships etc.
So that is approximately 23,000 children to sit the LC. Much easier to accommodate with social isolating than double that amount.

Or they can give everyone a LC and get the children going to college to do matriculation - which is what we all used to do.

I think the above options are better than saying to children, sit in limbo, have no holiday and keep studying just in case we do have the exam. And if you wanted to go to work, tough, sit at home on your own - which eventually will be for 5 months - and then perform at your best for the most important exam of your 12 years of school.

Madness and don't even get me started on their mental, the lack of wifi to participate in online learning, children who have special needs.

km79 · 14-04-2020 9:04pm

http://twitter.com/Steve_360_/status/1250149891269185539

I think that’s a pretty good summary of the current LC “plan”

mirrorwall14 · 14-04-2020 9:08pm

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Just joined this thread so not sure if this has been put forward. I have a daughter supposedly doing LC in June 2020.

Why can't all the students who have completed 90+% of the curriculum and do not need points (like work or apprenticeships, etc) and have particpated in school for the last two years - this is easily checked by the school's records - get given a pass Leaving Certificate. No other grade just a pass to allow them to get on with their lives.

There is approximately 46,000 sitting LC this year. Of those possibly 50% go to college, the rest work, apprenticeships etc.
So that is approximately 23,000 children to sit the LC. Much easier to accommodate with social isolating than double that amount.

Or they can give everyone a LC and get the children going to college to do matriculation - which is what we all used to do.

I think the above options are better than saying to children, sit in limbo, have no holiday and keep studying just in case we do have the exam. And if you wanted to go to work, tough, sit at home on your own - which eventually will be for 5 months - and then perform at your best for the most important exam of your 12 years of school.

Madness and don't even get me started on their mental, the lack of wifi to participate in online learning, children who have special needs.

Please, please, PLEASE email your concerns to all your local TDs. Better yet, ring them and speak to them! And tell every single parent and student you know to do the same. The teachers will not be listened to. They are not being consulted. The principal's body seem to be fully behind this. The TUI already seem afraid to rock the boat. ASTI seems to just be trying to reign things in. Unless the parents and students actually start kicking up a riot and yelling at their TDs nothing is going to change

It wasnt me123 · 14-04-2020 9:12pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Please, please, PLEASE email your concernts all your local TDs. Better yet, ring them and speak to them! And tell every single parent and student you know to do the same. .....

I emailed Joe McHugh, Education Minister, last Thursday/Friday, awaiting a response. I emailed Mary Lou McDonald (but she was out sick with covid19) and Mattie McGrath but they just responded with we'll mention it.

DOes anyone know what the Irish Secondary Students Union is on this proposal?
My daughter has Asthma, she will not, under any circumstances, be sitting in an exam hall, either on her own or with 300 others.

titan18 · 14-04-2020 9:23pm

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/Steve_360_/status/1250149891269185539

I think that’s a pretty good summary of the current LC “plan”

To a lot of those points, you can just go give me a solution. Cos a lot of just sounds like complaining. It's easy to do that, what's this person's solution.

mirrorwall14 · 14-04-2020 9:23pm

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I emailed Joe McHugh, Education Minister, last Thursday/Friday, awaiting a response. I emailed Mary Lou McDonald (but she was out sick with covid19) and Mattie McGrath but they just responded with we'll mention it.

DOes anyone know what the Irish Secondary Students Union is on this proposal?
My daughter has Asthma, she will not, under any circumstances, be sitting in an exam hall, either on her own or with 300 others.

I would also contact your own local FF/FG Td's. They'll likely be going into government. The secondary student union is against it I believe. It might be worth contacting the Asthma Society of Ireland.

km79 · 14-04-2020 9:23pm

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I emailed Joe McHugh, Education Minister, last Thursday/Friday, awaiting a response. I emailed Mary Lou McDonald (but she was out sick with covid19) and Mattie McGrath but they just responded with we'll mention it.

DOes anyone know what the Irish Secondary Students Union is on this proposal?
My daughter has Asthma, she will not, under any circumstances, be sitting in an exam hall, either on her own or with 300 others.

Or be attending classes in July obviously
I’m sure many parents are of a similar mind
My youngest is in 3rd class . He doesn’t have underlying conditions (that we know of anyway!)
If they return before end of June I don’t think I will be sending him
For the sake of the few weeks it’s not worth the risk of him becoming a carrier .
Again I’m sure many other parents are of a similar mindset

I would hate to have a child in LC this year tbh
An impossible situation
My lad did his last year
He was also the last year to do the older Junior Cert in all subjects . Which I was also delighted about at the time .
A lot of this years LC student body were the first to do the new JC . And the English paper was a disaster of I remember correctly

km79 · 14-04-2020 9:25pm

titan18 wrote: »

To a lot of those points, you can just go give me a solution. Cos a lot of just sounds like complaining. It's easy to do that, what's this person's solution.

See my earlier post
I’m not typing it out for the third time

This person is a LC student.
It’s not for them (or me really ) to give the solution to the mess of another persons creation

rainbowtrout · 14-04-2020 10:27pm

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Just joined this thread so not sure if this has been put forward. I have a daughter supposedly doing LC in June 2020.

Why can't all the students who have completed 90+% of the curriculum and do not need points (like work or apprenticeships, etc) and have particpated in school for the last two years - this is easily checked by the school's records - get given a pass Leaving Certificate. No other grade just a pass to allow them to get on with their lives.

There is approximately 46,000 sitting LC this year. Of those possibly 50% go to college, the rest work, apprenticeships etc.
So that is approximately 23,000 children to sit the LC. Much easier to accommodate with social isolating than double that amount.

Or they can give everyone a LC and get the children going to college to do matriculation - which is what we all used to do.

I think the above options are better than saying to children, sit in limbo, have no holiday and keep studying just in case we do have the exam. And if you wanted to go to work, tough, sit at home on your own - which eventually will be for 5 months - and then perform at your best for the most important exam of your 12 years of school.

Madness and don't even get me started on their mental, the lack of wifi to participate in online learning, children who have special needs.

Don't know where you are getting your figures from, but they are incorrect. 61,000 students are due to sit the LC this year.

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-03-19.html

Also 44,000 students went to third level last year. Out of approximately 61,000 students who sat LC in 2019. That's nearly three quarters. Some more would have continued to do PLCs (and some PLC colleges require a Leaving Cert).... and some of those students who go working now or do an apprenticeship will come back to education at some point and might want a Leaving Cert to access that education.

Why should they be done out of a proper Leaving Cert and be asked to make a decision now that could affect their access to education down the line? You are suggesting that the most disadvantaged students (academically and often socially) be given some mickey mouse bit of paper that says they attended, but still run the LC for the more academically able students.

Frankly I'm not sure how you could disadvantage students more than by this suggestion.

Dickie10 · 14-04-2020 10:44pm

I was just going to say this, that would be a crazy thing to do. How in Gods name would you know when you might want a LC. I did a trade for 6 years after the Leaving Cert and now im a secondary teacher. You never know when these students need their Leaving Cert.

History Queen · 14-04-2020 10:53pm

Posting this with the caveat that the exams absolutely should not go ahead if not safe to do so. I am not qualified to make that call and indeed that is one reason why we are in this situation, the call cannot be made yet.

I do worry though for how desperate some students are to cancel the exams. While that's obviously an attractive short term solution I don't think they're looking at the biggger picture and while this year is horrendous for them in many ways , their lack of resilience is worrying too. Dealing with stress and the unexpected is a lifeskill we all have to learn.

Not getting the points/course you want because you struggled with these circumstances would be so difficult. Not getting the points/course you want because you never got a chance to sit the exam/someone else predicted your grade would arguably be even more difficult.

At the end of the day a lot of subjects have courses 90% completed if not finished already. Those doing music and or languages already have a passing grade secured (I understand the inherent inequality of this situation and think treating other projects/practicals the same might help a little).

On the other hand, students all have 2 extra months to study and yes independent study is challenging, (they do have access to and help from teachers although I understand this isn't perfect either) but those planning on going to 3rd level in Autumn are going to have to get used to independent study then anyway.

I'm not denying it is awful and unfair but I'm not sure there is a better solution given the circumstances we are in. I pity the decision makers in the department of education, there's no easy solve to this one.

It wasnt me123 · 15-04-2020 7:35am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

....]

...... Some more would have continued to do PLCs (and some PLC colleges require a Leaving Cert).... and some of those students who go working now or do an apprenticeship .....

....You are suggesting that the most disadvantaged students (academically and often socially) be given some mickey mouse bit of paper that says they attended, but still run the LC for the more academically able students.
.

Clearly you didn't read my post properly - I said give ALL the children a pass LC (if they fulfill the criteria I mentioned), if they want it so that they have a LC (not a mickey mouse piece of paper) so they can do PLC courses, work or apprenticeships and get on with their lives.

Then do exams, when safe to do so, for the children that want to go to college for points - there is no other reason to sit exams only for points. Personally I think they should do a matriculation exam for college entry - like we used to.

It wasnt me123 · 15-04-2020 7:37am

Dickie10 wrote: »

I was just going to say this, that would be a crazy thing to do. How in Gods name would you know when you might want a LC. I did a trade for 6 years after the Leaving Cert and now im a secondary teacher. You never know when these students need their Leaving Cert.

I said GIVE THEM ALL a LC based on their attendance over the last two years, their completion of the curriculum, etc.

Read the post.

Purefrank128 · 15-04-2020 8:04am

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I said GIVE THEM ALL a LC based on their attendance over the last two years, their completion of the curriculum, etc.

Read the post.

I think the point that people are making is that 50K+ students need and want a LC with, you know, actual results.

In the modern era, for the vast majority of students, just having a piece of paper saying they passed the LC would be of little or no use. They need results in all their subjects.

University matriculation exams ended almost 30 years ago for most institutions. Bringing them back would not solve the problems of having thousands of students sitting in exam halls for hours and having those exams marked properly and quickly.

Bringing back matriculation exams would, however, mean that universities would be writing exam papers in a rush to assess a curriculum with which they are unfamiliar, with the attendant poor quality exams/marking evident in matriculation exams when they were run prior to 1992.

randylonghorn · 15-04-2020 8:11am

Except no matter how you dressed it up, affixed red seals and posh signatures to it, it_wasn't, employers etc. would never see it as a "real" Leaving Cert.

It's a bit like having a sports day and giving all the kids gold medals. That's fine when they're 5 or 6 and you just want to encourage them, and reward them for participation. But even they begin to see through it soon enough, let alone those around them.

Excuse my French, but it's a really sh***y way to reward youngsters who have worked hard and done their best to pass or get a fairly decent LC, regardless of whether they're going on to college or not.

Mind you, if things really go to hell in a handbag over the summer, we might find ourselves landed with choices which aren't much better! I'm slightly more optimistic, but we'll have to wait and see.

And I do most definitely sympathise with your underlying concerns about your daughter etc., and fully understand that you're just trying to figure out a better way going forward, just like everyone else in this thread.

annamarie2013 · 15-04-2020 9:16am

Rumblings on the radio and in the paper this morning that our Minister might not be in the final line up after the upcoming cabinet reshuffle.

km79 · 15-04-2020 9:17am

annamarie2013 wrote: »

Rumblings on the radio and in the paper this morning that our Minister might not be in the final line up after the upcoming cabinet reshuffle.

Oh lord
Just what we need
More uncertainty

mirrorwall14 · 15-04-2020 9:27am

Christ. Just what we need

Anyone got any advice on what to plan for third years.... I'm over and back on it. TBH I'm not sure there is any longer any benefit in setting them weekly revision work. Its too far out from the exam now and I think it may actually put them off. Maybe just stick to daily classroom content in maths and music and no additional revision? But them I'm not sure do I officially suspend revision or just not check it... My head is fried

Treppen · 15-04-2020 9:29am

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/Steve_360_/status/1250149891269185539

I think that’s a pretty good summary of the current LC “plan”

I think it's just another whataboutery whinge-fest. With zero offers of alternatives.

People are continuously screaming out for contingency plans for X,y and z.... What about this, what if that.

It's a rolling situation so the last thing you do is outline your many contingency plans... And then spend days justifying why it's the best of a bad situation... More explaining, more Joe Duffy... More stress for students. And the media feeds of this hysteria like flies to #####.

randylonghorn · 15-04-2020 9:34am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Christ. Just what we need

Anyone got any advice on what to plan for third years.... I'm over and back on it. TBH I'm not sure there is any longer any benefit in setting them weekly revision work. Its too far out from the exam now and I think it may actually put them off. Maybe just stick to daily classroom content in maths and music and no additional revision? But them I'm not sure do I officially suspend revision or just not check it... My head is fried

What can you do with them that is broadly relevant to JC curriculum but still relevant to / a good foundation for 5th year / LC?

Just a thought, mind you, and from someone who doesn't teach at second-level, so feel free to :rolleyes: and ignore!

mirrorwall14 · 15-04-2020 9:51am

randylonghorn wrote: »

What can you do with them that is broadly relevant to JC curriculum but still relevant to / a good foundation for 5th year / LC?

Just a thought, mind you, and from someone who doesn't teach at second-level, so feel free to :rolleyes: and ignore!

Oh that’s definitely a given, going to focus on LC relevant content in class time. But normally they’d be following a revision plan too. I’m not sure there’s any point now

km79 · 15-04-2020 9:53am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Christ. Just what we need

Anyone got any advice on what to plan for third years.... I'm over and back on it. TBH I'm not sure there is any longer any benefit in setting them weekly revision work. Its too far out from the exam now and I think it may actually put them off. Maybe just stick to daily classroom content in maths and music and no additional revision? But them I'm not sure do I officially suspend revision or just not check it... My head is fried

My 3rd year and LC courses are finished
Had laid out revision plans for remainder of year for both before the Easter break (no longer calling it holidays )
Back online today now amending it so they take the rest of time off

No idea what we will do for the next 6 weeks
Focus will be on 1/2/5th years more so now
They will most certainly be losing time in September

Have a feeling we will be back here next Easter with more “once off “ demands for work in June this time

randylonghorn · 15-04-2020 10:03am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

But normally they’d be following a revision plan too. I’m not sure there’s any point now

None whatsoever, if we're looking at a silly JC-in-house-test-for-the-sake-of-it-scenario. Worst of both worlds imho.

Either cancel it to hell altogether (which leaves 5-7k students who won't do LC with absolutely nothing to show for their school years) or hold proper JC exams.

Anything in between is just political tomfoolery.

km79 · 15-04-2020 10:08am

randylonghorn wrote: »

None whatsoever, if we're looking at a silly JC-in-house-test-for-the-sake-of-it-scenario. Worst of both worlds imho.

Either cancel it to hell altogether (which leaves 5-7k students who won't do LC with absolutely nothing to show for their school years) or hold proper JC exams.

Anything in between is just political tomfoolery.

They will have their JCPA which was brought in to recognize the work all students did inside and outside the classroom over their three years
That is why I can’t for the life of me work out why they haven’t just cancelled it
Unless is intentionally in their as a bargaining chip so the unions can be seen to get a “win” on that one

randylonghorn · 15-04-2020 10:11am

km79 wrote: »

That is why I can’t for the life of me work out why they haven’t just cancelled it
Unless is intentionally in their as a bargaining chip so the unions can be seen to get a “win” on that one

In fairness, km, much as it offends me, I acknowledge the possibility that you may be spot on the mark.

rainbowtrout · 15-04-2020 11:19am

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Clearly you didn't read my post properly - I said give ALL the children a pass LC (if they fulfill the criteria I mentioned), if they want it so that they have a LC (not a mickey mouse piece of paper) so they can do PLC courses, work or apprenticeships and get on with their lives.

Then do exams, when safe to do so, for the children that want to go to college for points - there is no other reason to sit exams only for points. Personally I think they should do a matriculation exam for college entry - like we used to.

You know, you have a very shortsighted view of education. A lot of kids who don't go on to third level still want to have a Leaving Cert and take pride in passing those exams. PLCs look for LC grades, where apprenticeships are competitive, the ones with the better LC will be picked over the ones who don't. How does the lad who wants to apply for an ESB apprenticeship prove that he has a decent capability in maths for example if he has no Leaving Cert to show that? To join an Garda Siochana you must have a Leaving Cert with 5 passes including Maths and Irish or English. Want to cut that route off to students who don't want to go to third level as well? If you want to become an EMT you have to have a Leaving Cert with 6 passes including a science subject? Let's cut that route off too.

A cert saying they attended school for five years doesn't cut it, it doesn't differentiate them from the rest. It doesn't differentiate the student who might have found school difficult but worked hard to get average grades from the student who spent five years swinging on a chair at the back of the room doing nothing. Even for those who go out and work, passing 7 subject in the LC tells an employer that they have a work ethic and stuck it out.

It's awful to think that you think that those students don't deserve to have their achievements recognised and that only the ones going to third level should be afforded an exam that can open doors for them. It's quite elitist really.

randylonghorn · 15-04-2020 11:25am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You know, you have a very shortsighted view of education. A lot of kids who don't go on to third level still want to have a Leaving Cert and take pride in passing those exams. PLCs look for LC grades, where apprenticeships are competitive, the ones with the better LC will be picked over the ones who don't. How does the lad who wants to apply for an ESB apprenticeship prove that he has a decent capability in maths for example if he has no Leaving Cert to show that? To join an Garda Siochana you must have a Leaving Cert with 5 passes including Maths and Irish or English. Want to cut that route off to students who don't want to go to third level as well? If you want to become an EMT you have to have a Leaving Cert with 6 passes including a science subject? Let's cut that route off too.

A cert saying they attended school for five years doesn't cut it, it doesn't differentiate them from the rest. It doesn't differentiate the student who might have found school difficult but worked hard to get average grades from the student who spent five years swinging on a chair at the back of the room doing nothing. Even for those who go out and work, passing 7 subject in the LC tells an employer that they have a work ethic and stuck it out.

It's awful to think that you think that those students don't deserve to have their achievements recognised and that only the ones going to third level should be afforded an exam that can open doors for them. It's quite elitist really.

All true C, but draw your fking horns in, lass.

If I had a kid who was asthmatic I'd be scared as fk right now.

And I wouldn't fking apologise for it to anyone either!

rainbowtrout · 15-04-2020 11:28am

randylonghorn wrote: »

All true C, but draw your fking horns in, lass.

If I had a kid who was asthmatic I'd be scared as fk right now.

And I wouldn't fking apologise for it to anyone either!

There's a difference between not wanting your child to sit an exam because they have a health issue (understandable) and saying that kids who aren't going to college shouldn't sit the Leaving Cert and just be given a certificate of attendance.

khalessi · 15-04-2020 11:33am

randylonghorn wrote: »

All true C, but draw your fking horns in, lass.

If I had a kid who was asthmatic I'd be scared as fk right now.

And I wouldn't fking apologise for it to anyone either!

This is my concern as the Dept of Education will come up with a half assed plan for the exams and for reopening of schools not taking into account illnesses which prior to Covid19 were not a huge issue to deal with in schools but now could present concerns.

Asthma, CF, diabetes, psoriasis depending on the medications you are on as they can make you immunocompromised, and that is just a few conditions to think about, a lot of stuff that teachers and parents may not be aware of. Hell even being overweight is comorbidity for Covid19

And that is not even before the daily deep clean of all locations used for teaching as Covid can staay on surfaces for up to 72hrs. Bet they are thinking of this regarding exams -not!

randylonghorn · 15-04-2020 11:39am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's a difference between not wanting your child to sit an exam because they have a health issue (understandable) and saying that kids who aren't going to college shouldn't sit the Leaving Cert and just be given a certificate of attendance.

Yes, there is, I agree. I think my previous posts illustrated that I agree. And why.

Just ... remember that not all of us have been thinking about these issues at a deeper level for years, eh?

That this shítstorm has hit many decent people where it hurts ... unexpectedly.

And hell, I don't think I'm a stupid guy. But I still don't deal with the unexpected that well ...

It wasnt me123 · 15-04-2020 12:40pm

Why can't a LC be issued based on the last two years of school - mock results, test results and school work completion.

It won't be a worthless piece of paper - it will be based on completion of work. Teachers can provide this information.

School should be about educating yourself - not just the ability to complete an exam at the end of 12 years.

And yes, my daughter is asthmatic and she won't be sitting in a classroom anytime soon. She's actually terrified of leaving the house due to all the conflicting information online.

We should remember that these are children, they do not have the life skills to deal with issues like most adults do and saying man up, is not going to make it any easier for them. They suffer from anxiety, mental health issues, self harming etc, things we never dealt with when we went to school.

I don't have all the answers but leaving them in limbo, with limited access to tutoring is not the way to go. I think its a ****ty way to treat them.

HerrKuehn · 15-04-2020 12:53pm

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Why can't a LC be issued based on the last two years of school - mock results, test results and school work completion.

It won't be a worthless piece of paper - it will be based on completion of work. Teachers can provide this information.

School should be about educating yourself - not just the ability to complete an exam at the end of 12 years.

And yes, my daughter is asthmatic and she won't be sitting in a classroom anytime soon. She's actually terrified of leaving the house due to all the conflicting information online.

We should remember that these are children, they do not have the life skills to deal with issues like most adults do and saying man up, is not going to make it any easier for them. They suffer from anxiety, mental health issues, self harming etc, things we never dealt with when we went to school.

I don't have all the answers but leaving them in limbo, with limited access to tutoring is not the way to go. I think its a ****ty way to treat them.

Most of them will be 18 sitting the leaving cert. When they walk out the door of the last exam they are not children anymore. They are adults who will have to make their own way in life. There will be no path set out for them anymore. They need to figure things out for themselves. Some of them will miss out on their dream course by a few points. Some of them will go to college and come out to a great jobs market, get the graduate job they want etc. Others will come out in a recession and struggle. There will be nothing fair about any of it.

Treppen · 15-04-2020 1:13pm

I reckon the department will leave it to 'local arrangements' as regards Junior Cert. Schools will inevitably consult parents and the consensus will be to scrap it for this year and carry on.

Department are doing us all a favour by not scrapping it now. Only a few weeks teaching left so let's just play along and teach out the course for the junior certs.

Organising in-house junior cert exams at the start of a new year will never fly.
Sec can keep whatever papers they can for next year.

History Queen · 15-04-2020 1:23pm

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Why can't a LC be issued based on the last two years of school - mock results, test results and school work completion.

It won't be a worthless piece of paper - it will be based on completion of work. Teachers can provide this information.

School should be about educating yourself - not just the ability to complete an exam at the end of 12 years.

And yes, my daughter is asthmatic and she won't be sitting in a classroom anytime soon. She's actually terrified of leaving the house due to all the conflicting information online.

We should remember that these are children, they do not have the life skills to deal with issues like most adults do and saying man up, is not going to make it any easier for them. They suffer from anxiety, mental health issues, self harming etc, things we never dealt with when we went to school.

I don't have all the answers but leaving them in limbo, with limited access to tutoring is not the way to go. I think its a ****ty way to treat them.

Predicted grades are hugely problematic for lots of reasons. A potentially more unfair system for students than having their exam deferred by two months as no way of knowing what teachers would have to base those predictions on . No way of ensuring consistancy.

Also students may not have right to appeal the predicted grades. They can appeal Leaving Cert results. I know students are stressed but not getting a course/points because a teacher guessed your result would be much more stressful. At least with a deferred exam they have more study time and a chance to fulfil their potential.

Remember things change very quickly with this virus. We're talking about exams potentially taking place in 3 or 4 months and only if it is safe to do so. 3 months ago life was normal. Things can change quickly. The other alternative for your daughter if you both deem it too dangerous to sit exams this year is to repeat next year. Obviously not ideal but it is an option worth considering. May not suit your individual circumstances but it might be worth investigating as a viable alternative.

political analyst · 15-04-2020 1:37pm

How about having all primary and secondary schools repeat the academic year at their respective levels - and thus delaying the entry of infants into primary school by a year - so that this year's LC students can repeat the academic year and thus sit the exams next year?

TheDriver · 15-04-2020 1:44pm

political analyst wrote: »

How about having all primary and secondary schools repeat the academic year at their respective levels - and thus delaying the entry of infants into primary school by a year - so that this year's LC students can repeat the academic year and thus sit the exams next year?

It would unfortunately push life on a year forever plus no graduates in 4 years time for anything. Lots of college lay offs. No space in ecce.

Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

Comments