Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Jerry Attrick · 15-05-2021 3:59pm

BossMullet wrote: »

In a world where Andy Warwick gets red-carded on the basis of potential player safety issues and Henshaw gets nothing for his tackle, it is easy to fall apathetic towards the game of rugby.

Saying that, was expecting a massacre but they played with an intensity and determination that has been lacking recently. Hopefully we can finish this season strongly and look forward to next year.

Ulster frequently play well in dead rubbers. It's in the ones that matter that they often go awol.

Paul Smeenus · 15-05-2021 3:59pm

I'd have taken that score beforehand. Thought we looked skilful and showed good intensity for decent stretches. Was disappointed initially not to have more youngsters, but that was a good performance, despite the loss, and will have restored a bit of pride and steadied the ship.

Rea, Timoney and Shanahan all looked very good. Henderson and McCloskey were excellent.

We're not far off. We need real leadership, is my thinking. A Muller in his prime would take this team places. We're a young team, and the top two inches isn't there yet. We get flustered, despondent, over-excitable. It's genuinely not a single word of hyperbole to say that we deal better with going down to fourteen men ourselves, than when the opposition have someone sent off. We fall at final hurdles.

That will improve as the team gets older - players in key areas like Lowry, Hume, O'Toole, O'Sullivan will especially benefit from the minutes they are clocking up. But i think we need a proper vet or two - players who have been thete, done that, got the T-shirt.

bilston · 15-05-2021 11:43pm

BossMullet wrote: »

In a world where Andy Warwick gets red-carded on the basis of potential player safety issues and Henshaw gets nothing for his tackle, it is easy to fall apathetic towards the game of rugby.

Henshaw was wreckless and never in control of the tackle so I can definitely understand Henderson's annoyance, but the reality is there was no contact with Baloucoune's head so I think the ref was right. But an inch higher and they were both in trouble.

BossMullet · 16-05-2021 12:26am

bilston wrote: »

Henshaw was wreckless and never in control of the tackle so I can definitely understand Henderson's annoyance, but the reality is there was no contact with Baloucoune's head so I think the ref was right. But an inch higher and they were both in trouble.

Disagree. Head contact makes it a definite red but it was high, at high speed with a lack of control which as per law application guidelines is a red.

Personally I felt the lack of head contact makes it a yellow. Its nonsensical as a general point to require blatantly reckless actions to cause injury in order to incur sanctions. The thrust of the law directives is to penalise such actions to change player behaviour. That clearly didn't happen in this case.

BossMullet · 16-05-2021 12:31am

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Ulster frequently play well in dead rubbers. It's in the ones that matter that they often go awol.

Agree with the lack of consistency, but we have seen that intensity in some competitive games. I think of the toulouse home game, second half of the Northampton game, champions cup 1/4 against leinster.

KaneToad · 16-05-2021 12:38am

bilston wrote: »

Henshaw was wreckless and never in control of the tackle so I can definitely understand Henderson's annoyance, but the reality is there was no contact with Baloucoune's head so I think the ref was right. But an inch higher and they were both in trouble.

Henshaw moved fast and hit hard. His tackle wasn't high (by the laws of the game) and he wrapped his arms. The ifs/buts/maybes are irrelevant.

sydthebeat · 16-05-2021 8:10am

BossMullet wrote: »

Disagree. Head contact makes it a definite red but it was high, at high speed with a lack of control which as per law application guidelines is a red.
.

This is where you are incorrect

The law application is literally called "head contact process"

The very first determination to be made is "has head contact occurred" and if not... Play on.

https://rugbyreferee.net/2021/03/11/new-head-contact-process-unveiled-by-world-rugby/

Burkie1203 · 16-05-2021 9:02am

https://twitter.com/thistlerugbypod/status/1393827725903859712?s=19

launish116 · 16-05-2021 9:47am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/thistlerugbypod/status/1393827725903859712?s=19

That is very interesting! So we’re hopefully still in the market!

Be a good signing, though could be on international duty a good bit.

bilston · 16-05-2021 10:03am

Interesting

One thing I would say is that LHP is one of the few forward positions where we actually have a decent prospect coming through in Callum Reid, but in saying that, having Rory Sutherland for 2 years would be great for his development, given Sutbherland wouldn't be available all the time and he'd still get good game time from the bench behind O'Sullivan.

But if we want to compete for trophies this is exactly the sort of signing we need. I've always thought Tom Court was a very underestimated player back in the day when we were reaching European and Pro 12 finals. Having a strong front row is a necessary foundation if you want to win trophies.

Mind you if Ulster and Rochelle are both in for him then we're likely to be 2nd favourites. Hendy may make him his best friend in SA!!

stephen_n · 16-05-2021 10:08am

Would that signal the end of Jack McGraths time with Ulster?

launish116 · 16-05-2021 10:21am

stephen_n wrote: »

Would that signal the end of Jack McGraths time with Ulster?

Or maybe worried he’ll miss most of the season rehabing

thomond2006 · 16-05-2021 10:29am

Sutherland would be a great signing but given his international commitments I would be surprised if it happened. He's in his prime and will be a Lion. He would demand big money and be missing for some of the season. Less of an issue with less games in the Pro16 but you'd rather have NIEs always available.

James Cronin's future hasn't yet been announced, if Ulster are stuck.

stephen_n · 16-05-2021 10:51am

thomond2006 wrote: »

.

James Cronin's future hasn't yet been announced, if Ulster are stuck.

Not sure if you’re trying to wind Awec up with that one?

bilston · 16-05-2021 11:18am

stephen_n wrote: »

Would that signal the end of Jack McGraths time with Ulster?

Oh crap, I forgot all about him

launish116 · 16-05-2021 1:19pm

Worst bit being now we’re hearing this and if nothing happens...more questions will be asked.

theVersatile · 17-05-2021 6:31pm

https://twitter.com/ultimaterugby/status/1394341813327212544?s=19

Just another excuse to look at THAT Henderson carry. In hindsight, what on Earth happened with that Leinster line out?

And an interesting stat to supplement it.

https://twitter.com/jonny_mccormick/status/1394329522028355596?s=19

launish116 · 17-05-2021 9:46pm

If only some more of our back row could carry like that

bilston · 17-05-2021 11:03pm

launish116 wrote: »

If only some more of our back row could carry like that

Matty Rea carried pretty well on Friday and Timoney seems to be getting more powerful every single week so it's not all doom and gloom. Although I still think Rea is a very good Pro 14 player and Timoney a decent European player. If we want to win trophies they have to kick on more or we need to upgrade. But to be fair Timoney continues to surprise me with his level. He's still young enough as well.

launish116 · 18-05-2021 8:03am

bilston wrote: »

Matty Rea carried pretty well on Friday and Timoney seems to be getting more powerful every single week so it's not all doom and gloom. Although I still think Rea is a very good Pro 14 player and Timoney a decent European player. If we want to win trophies they have to kick on more or we need to upgrade. But to be fair Timoney continues to surprise me with his level. He's still young enough as well.

In fairness that was probably the best I’ve seen him (Rea) carry in a long time. He needs to make that the bench mark going forward. He has the size and capabilities, just need to maintain that standard week in week out.

He basically is the only 6 we have, really need some competition to keep him upping his game. I know he sat out quite few games recently, but with our lack of grunt he is needed.

Paul Smeenus · 18-05-2021 8:57am

I thought Rea and Timoney looked very good. Obviously there's a gap between them and the first choice Leinster backrow, but they acquitted themselves well.

Scythica · 18-05-2021 11:07am

Is there a chance that hendo will play 6 next season or does it seem more that nakarawaay tale that mantle on?

2 NIQ 2nd rows so I'd assume we want them starting as much as possible

Paul Smeenus · 18-05-2021 11:53am

I thought Nakarawa was actually coming in as a number eight? Obviously he's usually a second row, but I thought Petrie said he'd be playing at the base of the scrum.

Excited about these last two Bungle Cup games, hopefully seeing McCann, ReaJea, Reid and Doak again. Would like to see Doak start a game. (in fact, I'd like to see Lewis Finkayvget a crack off the bench.) Also Tom Stewart - we have a decent stable of hookers, but he showed serious potential for the U20s.

bilston · 18-05-2021 12:06pm

Scythica wrote: »

Is there a chance that hendo will play 6 next season or does it seem more that nakarawaay tale that mantle on?

2 NIQ 2nd rows so I'd assume we want them starting as much as possible

Hendy is much better in the second row, he has never been as effective from 6 IMO.

Squidgy Black · 18-05-2021 12:28pm

You'd be mad to even entertain Henderson moving to the back row with the way he's been playing the last couple years, early days he was looking like it might be a better fit for him but it's been fairly clear now that the 5 shirt is where he excels.

Nakarawa will probably slot in at number 8 and compete with Timoney for that shirt, it's still questionable how fit he is so could see him take the 19 shirt and cover both from the bench for a while.

launish116 · 18-05-2021 1:42pm

Can’t say I’ve noticed but does Carter scrummage behind the tight head much? Letting Henderson switch?

Will be interesting to see where Nakarawa fits in.

On Hookers, Bradley Roberts showed some good stats for a cameo, be damned if I can find them now though.

bilston · 18-05-2021 1:46pm

launish116 wrote: »

Can’t say I’ve noticed but does Carter scrummage behind the tight head much? Letting Henderson switch?

Will be interesting to see where Nakarawa fits in.

On Hookers, Bradley Roberts showed some good stats for a cameo, be damned if I can find them now though.

Roberts is a proper bona fide unsung hero. We are very well stocked at hooker. Andrew has had the best season of his career, Herring is currently first choice for Ireland and Stewart at 18 looked an outstanding prospect at U20s level.

Hookers and Wingers are what we do in Ulster!

launish116 · 18-05-2021 2:22pm

Indeed 17 minutes played.

2 tackles, 6 carries for 23 metres.

If him/Stewart, Reid & OToole really push on. That would some serious impact of the bench.

Hey boy · 20-05-2021 4:35pm

launish116 wrote: »

Indeed 17 minutes played.

2 tackles, 6 carries for 23 metres.

If him/Stewart, Reid & OToole really push on. That would some serious impact of the bench.

Have you seen his highlight video on yt?

Paul Smeenus · 20-05-2021 8:29pm

500 allowed in to the Scarlets game.

The road back to the good times behind here.

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1395442951862378499?s=19

bilston · 20-05-2021 9:43pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

500 allowed in to the Scarlets game.

The road back to the good times behind here.

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1395442951862378499?s=19

Good stuff...I could have a moan and say they could probably be a bit braver and maybe let a few more in...but beggars can't be choosers...

Paul Smeenus · 21-05-2021 8:17am

bilston wrote: »

Good stuff...I could have a moan and say they could probably be a bit braver and maybe let a few more in...but beggars can't be choosers...

Not up to them. Limit set by the Executive.

launish116 · 21-05-2021 10:23am

Academy appointments

Hogg & Faloon

https://www.ulsterrugby.com/2021/05/hogg-appointed-ulster-rugby-academy-manager-with-faloon-set-to-make-a-return/

awec · 21-05-2021 10:26am

I think our academy would have benefited from some new, fresh, outside influence, but I guess you have to trust these appointments.

I suppose Falloon is new.

bilston · 21-05-2021 1:16pm

One positive is that they should know the level of talent that exists in Ulster at age grade level. I'm still interested to know how they will decide upon next season's Academy intake and perhaps more significantly the sub Academy intake. I think Inter School sport is allowed again so are there going to be any School matches in June?

launish116 · 21-05-2021 1:26pm

bilston wrote: »

One positive is that they should know the level of talent that exists in Ulster at age grade level. I'm still interested to know how they will decide upon next season's Academy intake and perhaps more significantly the sub Academy intake. I think Inter School sport is allowed again so are there going to be any School matches in June?

There was talk all academy intakes were being frozen for the year?

Hey boy · 21-05-2021 2:21pm

awec wrote: »

I think our academy would have benefited from some new, fresh, outside influence, but I guess you have to trust these appointments.

I suppose Falloon is new.

Faloon is an excellent coach.

Hey boy · 21-05-2021 2:24pm

bilston wrote: »

One positive is that they should know the level of talent that exists in Ulster at age grade level. I'm still interested to know how they will decide upon next season's Academy intake and perhaps more significantly the sub Academy intake. I think Inter School sport is allowed again so are there going to be any School matches in June?

There is chat of a few games but only Enniskillen and BA will play as others into summer sports etc etc.

RuPi · 21-05-2021 4:35pm

launish116 wrote: »

There was talk all academy intakes were being frozen for the year?

AFAIK this is what is happening across all four provinces, due to the lack of rugby to assess players on, that means current players in the sub academy (National Talent Squad and Provincial Talent Squad) will remain there. Probably saves some money but won’t change much else.

Ulster have been lucky that all those players have been able to continue to train since November due to being classed as ‘elite’. Ulster 19’s due to play Ballymena Academy next Friday.

Paul Smeenus · 24-05-2021 7:12pm

Malone have announced that they now have an Academy, for 18-21 year olds, coached by Dan Tuohy.

Can any of you guys more in the know explain how this new structure is going to work?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/club-rugby/tuohy-aiming-to-make-a-major-impact-on-youth-after-agreeing-to-head-up-malone-academy-40455990.html

awec · 24-05-2021 8:17pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Malone have announced that they now have an Academy, for 18-21 year olds, coached by Dan Tuohy.

Can any of you guys more in the know explain how this new structure is going to work?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/club-rugby/tuohy-aiming-to-make-a-major-impact-on-youth-after-agreeing-to-head-up-malone-academy-40455990.html

Hard to see how Ulster benefit from this, seems more like something Malone are doing to try improve their own senior team in the AIL?

RuPi · 24-05-2021 8:44pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Malone have announced that they now have an Academy, for 18-21 year olds, coached by Dan Tuohy.

Can any of you guys more in the know explain how this new structure is going to work?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/club-rugby/tuohy-aiming-to-make-a-major-impact-on-youth-after-agreeing-to-head-up-malone-academy-40455990.html

It is an initiative being rolled out by the Ulster Branch called ‘Club Academy’ that would see all clubs try to establish an U21 side to play in leagues and cups during the season.

Paul Smeenus · 24-05-2021 10:09pm

RuPi wrote: »

It is an initiative being rolled out by the Ulster Branch called ‘Club Academy’ that would see all clubs try to establish an U21 side to play in leagues and cups during the season.

Surely more competitive games can only be a good thing. If indeed they do end up being competitive.

Paul Smeenus · 25-05-2021 9:04am

https://www.the42.ie/dan-soper-5447177-May2021/

My gut feeling is that next season's coaching ticket will be a good one. Notable how many ex-forwards - Falloon, Craig Newby, Tuohy as above - are being put into assorted coaching positions. They're obviously trying to raise the level of our pack and young forwards coming through.

I do think Payne could maybe do with a bit of homework over the summer. We definitely need to improve our discipline. Especially stop compounding mistakes - giving away a second penalty off the back of a first.

launish116 · 25-05-2021 9:04am

Overspill from Ulster Academy has a potential other route also.

bilston · 25-05-2021 9:45am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/dan-soper-5447177-May2021/

My gut feeling is that next season's coaching ticket will be a good one. Notable how many ex-forwards - Falloon, Craig Newby, Tuohy as above - are being put into assorted coaching positions. They're obviously trying to raise the level of our pack and young forwards coming through.

It's pretty obvious where we need to improve.

I still think we need to be looking at the Pacific Islands for players. Maybe we'll build contacts through Nakarawa.

Paul Smeenus · 25-05-2021 10:12am

bilston wrote: »

It's pretty obvious where we need to improve.

I still think we need to be looking at the Pacific Islands for players. Maybe we'll build contacts through Nakarawa.

Yeah. We are clearly going doing the route of having more mobile, ball-handling second rows (Henderson, Treadwell, Izzy and Carter to a degree) so we need a couple of backrow/frontrow bruisers. A big atom-smasher and an out-and-out seven are the most obvious gaps.

Paul Smeenus · 25-05-2021 4:34pm

Speaking of which... would be good to see this fella break through properly.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ulster-youngster-callum-reid-ready-to-challenge-the-pecking-order-1.4573997

Paul Smeenus · 27-05-2021 11:44am

Didn't realise Tom Stewart was still eligible for U20s. Mad to think injury stopped him getting his senior cap this season.

mfceiling · 27-05-2021 12:36pm

Ludik retiring.

Couldn't ask for a more consummate professional. 100% every game. Didn't matter if it was a must win European game or a Friday night away to the Dragons.

The Ulster McFadden.

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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