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Bus Eireann Possible Strike

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    #32
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote:
    The majority of shifts now are 12 - 13 hour long days ! Ranging from starting at 3:45 in the morning and finishing after 4pm !

    My Oh is a nurse doing 12- 13 hour shifts. It's not unusual, and they're hardly driving 12 hours straight.
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote:
    From this week I noted drivers are exhausted, they are doing crazy hours under new rotas and shifts and bearly getting any time for other things like family , excercise or in other cases very little sleep. So expect a few days where drivers will call in sick for this but it's not an unofficial strike or unofficial action.

    How many hours are they doing a week because it may sounds like they've a bad a very cushy number until now and are whinging at having to actually work and drive normal hours.


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    #33
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    My Oh is a nurse doing 12- 13 hour shifts. It's not unusual, and they're hardly driving 12 hours straight.



    How many hours are they doing a week because it may sounds like they've a bad a very cushy number until now and are whinging at having to actually work and drive normal hours.

    That's why I said any job.

    It wasn't great before , it could've been better but to put it this way,

    I finished today at 9 on and start again in the morning at 6:15.... I'm a guy that likes my sleep....

    In those 9 hours I've to find time to commute to and from work , eat healthy as much as possible , find time for other things like cleaning the home and socializing. As well as getting a good nights sleep because you don't want to be sitting on a vehicle with me driving and drifting into a ditch / car / truck / bus / building because of fatigue.

    In your average office job if you work 9am to 6pm you have approx 14 hours between working, I think that is plenty and a lot of drivers are considering (including myself) in going to a job of such for lower pay just to be able to have a life, (this is on top of our days off not always being together too)

    For actual hours spent at work being about 12 - 13 you would actually be on the road for about 10 of them. Sometimes more and sometimes less but only slightly both ways.

    It's not about having a handy days work at all, but just a decent work life balance which with these new shifts and rotas (yet to come) we will not have at all.

    To show you how much ray Hernan knows about our job, he asked one of the Dublin to cork drivers , how many times does he do it a day ? 2 ? 3 ?

    Cork is over 4 hours on a bus Eireann bus and if we did anymore on top of that we'd be breaking the law , but this guy is about getting every last bit from us.


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    #34
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    How many hours are they doing a week because it may sounds like they've a bad a very cushy number until now and are whinging at having to actually work and drive normal hours.
    It wasn't great before , it could've been better but to put it this way, I finished today at 9 on and start again in the morning at 6:15.... I'm a guy that likes my sleep....

    In those 9 hours I've to find time to commute to and from work , eat healthy as much as possible , find time for other things like cleaning the home and socializing. As well as getting a good nights sleep because you don't want to be sitting on a vehicle with me driving and drifting into a ditch / car / truck / bus / building because of fatigue.

    In your average office job if you work 9am to 6pm you have approx 14 hours between working, I think that is plenty and a lot of drivers are considering (including myself) in going to a job of such for lower pay just to be able to have a life, (this is on top of our days off not always being together too)

    For actual hours spent at work being about 12 - 13 you would actually be on the road for about 10 of them. Sometimes more and sometimes less but only slightly both ways.

    How many hours a week are you doing and how many days are you working?


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    #35
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    To show you how much ray Hernan knows about our job, he asked one of the Dublin to cork drivers , how many times does he do it a day ? 2 ? 3 ?

    Cork is over 4 hours on a bus Eireann bus and if we did anymore on top of that we'd be breaking the law , but this guy is about getting every last bit from us.

    I thought that BE no longer operate a Dublin to Cork service only GOBE.


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    #36
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    devnull wrote: »
    How many hours a week are you doing?

    This is where it's gets sneaky

    I could spend (thanks to these new shifts) 13 hours and 30 mins at work but only be paid for about 9 and half of them and those 9 and half hours will be 98% driving, the other 2% loading.

    So that by 5 days a week, rarely I do 6 but the last two weeks I did. I won't be doing it anymore. I'm tired from it.

    Bearing in mind the gap between shifts for me anywhere has not been anymore than 12 hours, unless it was a day off. But I will need two days off together very soon to fix my drivers hours


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    #37
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I thought that BE no longer operate a Dublin to Cork service only GOBE.

    Still do the X8 - and GoBe is a GoBus service.


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    #38
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    The NTA had a date they wanted the NX route and 109 changes implemented and bus Eireann had to obey it even without enough resources.

    By our side, I am bus Eireann driver.

    Thanks for the clarification but that is insane.

    It shows zero regard for customers - you don't implement change unless you have everything in place to do it.

    If the NTA are insisting on the implementation date knowing full well that BE don't have enough resources, then they too have a case to answer.


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    #39
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Disruption has now spread to Expressway
    http://buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=2393&month=Sep
    We regret to advise customers in our Eastern Region of the following disruptions to todays services

    Route 12
    06:00 Dublin to Limerick
    11:45 Limerick to Dublin

    Route 109A
    01:40 Kells to Dublin (next service 02:40)
    03:25 Dublin to Kells (next service 04:25)
    07:40 Kells to Dublin (next service 08:40)
    09:15 DAP to Kells (next service 10:15)

    Route NX
    17:40 Wilton Terrace to Navan (next service 18:00)
    19.20 Navan to Dublin (next service 19:40)

    Route 103
    17:18 Dublin to Ratoath (next service 17:38)
    18:22 Ratoath to Dublin (next service 18:42)
    19:58 Dublin to Ratoath(next service 20:28)
    21:02 Ratoath to Dublin (next service 21:32)
    22:28 Dublin to Ratoath (next service 23:28)
    22:58 Dublin to Ratoath (next service 23:28)
    23:32 Ratoath to Dublin (next service 00:32)
    00:02 Ratoath to Dublin (next service 00:32)

    We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause our customers

    Why won't they use the word cancelled, next service in brackets obviously means that the earlier one isn't running you'd think?


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    #40
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    I would be more concerned at how they're pushing drivers into 12-13 hour shifts with little more than 8 hour rest in-between. That's dangerous to say the least when your driving as it can leave people run down and tired and at risk of an accident.


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    #41
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    devnull wrote: »

    Why won't they use the word cancelled, next service in brackets obviously means that the earlier one isn't running you'd think?

    Agreed, "disruptions" is a very ambiguous term. Almost makes it sound like the service is delayed rather than cancelled.


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    #42
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Do BE have the same kind of obligations as Dublin Bus when it comes to timetable changes or disruptions and a certain amount of notice? If so they appear to be not complying with them, not just on these routes but on the 401 in Galway that the timetable was changed without sufficent notice.

    http://buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=2391&month=Sep
    We wish to advise our customers in Galway that the Winter Timetable will operate on Route 401 - Eyre Square to Salthill from Sunday, 24 September 2017.

    Friday, 22nd September, 2017

    Not only is there not enough notice, but it's also unclear if the timetable on the timetables section is the Winter timetable or not, since there is no link in the article and no from date on the PDF if you search for the 401.

    Whatever about the other issues in the company, the standard of communication with customers is extremely poor.


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    #43
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    The majority of shifts now are 12 - 13 hour long days ! Ranging from starting at 3:45 in the morning and finishing after 4pm !
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    For actual hours spent at work being about 12 - 13 you would actually be on the road for about 10 of them. Sometimes more and sometimes less but only slightly both ways.

    I find it very hard to believe that the majority of actual shifts are usually 12-13 hours and actual time on the road is for about 10 hours.

    If that was the case we would have heard about it long before now for a number of reasons.


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    #44
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    GM228 wrote: »
    I find it very hard to believe that the majority of actual shifts are usually 12-13 hours and actual time on the road is for about 10 hours.

    If that was the case we would have heard about it long before now for a number of reasons.

    They only came in on Sunday last, so no not really.

    Yes actual time on the road is mostly around 9-10 hours.

    The other trick they are using is the tachograph does not count time stopped in traffic at lights etc so does not count as driving time.

    But this is what we are putting up with all last week.


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    #45
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    Do BE have the same kind of obligations as Dublin Bus when it comes to timetable changes or disruptions and a certain amount of notice? If so they appear to be not complying with them, not just on these routes but on the 401 in Galway that the timetable was changed without sufficent notice.

    I'd imagine they do since they're both NTA PSO services.

    DB already suffer disruptions to services at short notice just like BE. You only have to look at the RTPI phantom buses to get an idea.


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    #46
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I'd imagine they do since they're both NTA PSO services.

    DB already suffer disruptions to services at short notice just like BE. You only have to look at the RTPI phantom buses to get an idea.

    The 401 change was not a disruption, they simply posted an article saying it was changing with 2 days notice, don't link to the new timetable and it's not even apparent if the timetable in their timetable section is the new one or the old one.


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    #47
    horseburger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    GM228 wrote: »
    Yes that is related.

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/19/4146041-ryanairstyle-rosters-and-new-timetables-causing-chaos/

    But BE blamed it (amongst other things) on 11% of drivers going sick.

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/22/4146257-bus-chaos-bus-eireann-didnt-factor-in-students-returning-to-college/

    Major unrest ahead at BE if what I have heard through the grapevine is true.

    In one of the Meath Chronicle items, there is a quote from someone who was looking to get the 109A, saying that he understands there will be teething problems with the new service on its first day of operation.

    The quote is:

    “I understand that there might be teething problems with a new bus service on its first day of operation but, the question I need answered is, will the 109A bus run as per its timetable in future or do I need to put alternative arranges for getting to college each day in place?”

    The person who said this, did not seem to know that there was no change made to the 109A timetable on 17th September, and that the same 24 hour 109A timetable operates now, that was introduced at the end of July 2016. Going by what he said, he seemed to think there was a change.

    The timetables, where routes changed, are the 109X Cavan Dublin service, and services to and from Navan and Dublin, with the introduction of the new NX service.

    The route of the 109 between Kells, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Clonee and Blanchardstown Slip Road and Dublin, isn't altered, as far as I know, except that it doesn't go to Blanchardstown Shopping Centre, as it had done at certain times of the day from Kells to Dublin, and no longer goes into Blanchardstown Shopping Centre on the way home from Dublin to Kells, but picks up on the Slip Roads instead, to and from Dublin.

    http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435589-109.pdf

    http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1473263565-109A.pdf

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/19/4146041-ryanairstyle-rosters-and-new-timetables-causing-chaos/


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    #48
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Further disruption today
    We regret to advise customers in our Eastern Region of the following disruptions to todays services

    Route NX
    10:00 Wilton Terrace to Navan.
    11:40 Navan to Dublin.

    Route 109
    08:25 Dunshaughlin to Dublin.
    Services from Dunshaughlin to Dublin will operate at 08:05 and 08:55

    Route 126
    06:45 Dublin to Kildare via Celbridge & Clane.
    Service will operate from Celbridge at 07.15


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    #49
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0926/907636-bus-eireann/


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    #50
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    They only came in on Sunday last, so no not really.

    Yes actual time on the road is mostly around 9-10 hours.

    I assume these 12-13 hour rosters include the 2:45 unpaid breaks* and were agreed to by drivers?

    *If your spending an actual time on the road of 9-10 hours then this isn't taking account of 2:45 unpaid breaks is it which means such shifts can't be the majority of shifts.


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    The other trick they are using is the tachograph does not count time stopped in traffic at lights etc so does not count as driving time.

    It's hardly a trick though is it as that's the way driving time is calculated (when the wheels are in motion - otherwise it's recorded as "other work"), however depending on vehicle age and equipment type stopping in traffic can be irrelevant depending on how long the vehicle is stopped for.


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    #51
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,164 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0926/907636-bus-eireann/

    Who could have thought that strikes would increase losses?


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    #52
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Another batch of cancellations
    Route 103 Dublin-Ashbourne-Ratoath

    19.58 Dublin/Ratoath
    21.02 Ratoath/Dublin
    21.58 Dublin/Ratoath
    22.58 Dublin/Ratoath
    23.02 Ratoath/Dublin
    00.02 Ratoath/Dublin


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    #53
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,563 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I heard a driver today talking saying it could happen any day and that they were looking for more work less pay him being sarcastic, That is basically what happened from the last strike they had. They did not get any more pay or better conditions but now are supposed to work longer hours. I think that is wrong they have to have time for family and socialising too. I hope it can all be sorted out without them having to strike again.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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    #54
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    AMKC wrote: »
    I heard a driver today talking saying it could happen any day and that they were looking for more work less pay him being sarcastic, That is basically what happened from the last strike they had. They did not get any more pay or better conditions but now are supposed to work longer hours. I think that is wrong they have to have time for family and socialising too. I hope it can all be sorted out without them having to strike again.

    I think there were more complex issues than what you mentioned. Such as redundancies, cuts to overtime etc.

    There are many misunderstanding when it comes to strikes such as "The DB workers only went on strike coz the Luas workers did and they got an increase".


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    #55
    rebel456
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I think there were more complex issues than what you mentioned.

    Complex issues become a lot less complex when the pay increase cash appears.

    I'm just waiting until unions start complaining about passenger safety, although I think the public have caught on to that one by now.


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    #56
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    rebel456 wrote: »
    Complex issues become a lot less complex when the pay increase cash appears.

    I'm just waiting until unions start complaining about passenger safety, although I think the public have caught on to that one by now.

    I do agree most issues do regard pay but pay can be a lot more ompex than it seems there are other payments issued such as overtime.

    When have transport unions complained about passenger safety? They generally openly admit what the issues are ie pay.


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    #57
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Gone quiet lately, but here's some recent "news" with regards to BE:-

    http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-eireann-delays-3617169-Sep2017/
    Siptu sector organiser Willie Noone said that its members made the company aware prior to the schedule changes that they thought routes could not be operated as advertised.

    “Management was made aware that all the necessary drivers had not been route trained, it knew that certain journeys could not be done in the times allocated, and that rosters showing people working through the night on shifts of nearly 13-hours duration were not workable".

    "The issue of giving short breaks to drivers in remote locations, which did not allow drivers the chance to either avail of a toilet break or indeed take a rest period in line with legal requirements, had also been highlighted".



    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/28/4146495-bus-eireann-attempts-to-lure-drivers-for-navandublin-route/

    This is interesting!
    Bus Eireann is now looking to get Dublin Bus drivers to move over and work the 109 routes for a temporary period until Christmas, while keeping their same pay.


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    #58
    horseburger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    GM228 wrote: »
    Gone quiet lately, but here's some recent "news" with regards to BE:-

    http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-eireann-delays-3617169-Sep2017/

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/28/4146495-bus-eireann-attempts-to-lure-drivers-for-navandublin-route/

    This is interesting!

    On the other thread, this issue was highlighted by a forum user.

    Forum user Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime said:

    "Something to help the folk here not snip at the drivers of these routes as going out sick etc as the reason they are not operating".

    "A staff notice has appeared in summerhill depot of Dublin bus of any driver wishing to transfer to bus Eireann until the end of the year."

    "Working Monday to Friday on the NX route."

    "This proves my previous point I made on another thread that the NTA and the company has to impose a new route / timetables without adequate resources."

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...&postcount=159

    This forum user made a number of other relevant observations:

    In the first link below, forum user, Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime, states the following:

    "From this week I noted drivers are exhausted, they are doing crazy hours under new rotas and shifts and bearly getting any time for other things like family , excercise or in other cases very little sleep. So expect a few days where drivers will call in sick for this but it's not an unofficial strike or unofficial action. The company will hire in private operators to help cover services".

    On Saturday 30th September the 11.45pm 109 from Bus Aras to Kells, was a Tully's coach. That backs up what Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime is stating.


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104773128&postcount=24
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104774399&postcount=27
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104774429&postcount=28
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104774572&postcount=30

    In this post below, Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime makes this insightful observation:

    "To show you how much ray Hernan knows about our job, he asked one of the Dublin to cork drivers , how many times does he do it a day ? 2 ? 3 ?
    Cork is over 4 hours on a bus Eireann bus and if we did anymore on top of that we'd be breaking the law , but this guy is about getting every last bit from us".

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104775141&postcount=33


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    #59
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    I know it was mentioned in the N3/M3 thread, but I think this topic is more suited to this thread as it's an accusation of (unofficial) industrial action which is more appropriate to this thread as it is/has affected other routes than the M3 Corridor.


    The accusation:-

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885
    Regina Doherty wrote:
    It is clear that an unofficial labour dispute is in progress


    And the NBRUs responce:-

    https://twitter.com/DermotLeary/status/918853856460705792
    Dermot O Leary wrote:
    Scurrilous Accusations


    P.S perhaps the thread should be re-titled to "Possible BE Industrial Action" or something similar?


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    #60
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    GM228 wrote: »
    I know it was mentioned in the N3/M3 thread, but I think this topic is more suited to this thread as it's an accusation of (unofficial) industrial action which is more appropriate to this thread as it is/has affected other routes than the M3 Corridor.


    The accusation:-

    https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1147754588691096&id=677425502390676&__tn__=%2As%2As-R




    And the NBRUs responce:-

    https://twitter.com/DermotLeary/status/918853856460705792




    P.S perhaps the thread should be re-titled to "Possible BE Industrial Action" or something similar?


    Regina Doherty seems to have removed her post. the facebook link is saying page not found for me anyway.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #61
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    end of the road wrote: »
    Regina Doherty seems to have removed her post. the facebook link is saying page not found for me anyway.

    Here's a fixed link:
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885
    I have met with the acting CEO of Bus Eireann, Ray Hernan, again, armed with the feedback that you have provided to me. It is clear that an unofficial labour dispute is in progress.

    In the last week alone, 299 replacement buses had to be drafted in to cover the Eastern bus corridor where drivers aren’t showing up for work, at a cost of €150,000. It’s unacceptable for Meath commuters to be left stranded in this fashion. This simply cannot continue.

    This morning I wrote to Dermot O’Leary of the National Bus and Railworkers Union (NBRU) and Joe O’Flynn of SIPTU. I will be asking that they engage in discussion with Bus Éireann to bring about a resolution to this dispute so that Meath commuters will once again have a bus service they can rely on.

    Bus Eireann have since confirmed to RTE that the figures quoted by Regina Doherty are correct.


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