Bus Eireann Possible Strike

devnull · 22-09-2017 4:55pm #1

I've been reading in the press talk of a Bus Eireann strike alongside the possible Irish Rail one, however all the media outlets are very short on details other than saying one could happen in October.

What exactly is the issue?

thomasj · 22-09-2017 4:59pm

devnull wrote:

I've been reading in the press talk of a Bus Eireann strike alongside the possible Irish Rail one, however all the media outlets are very short on details other than saying one could happen in October.

devnull wrote:

What exactly is the issue?

Could it be to do with Irish rail drivrrs balloting in favour of going out on strike in support of bus eireann drivers

Could it be roles reverse?

Edit: forget that!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-only-alternative-strike-action-fears-for-rail-and-bus-passengers-unless-tangible-offer-made-36158714.html

GM228 · 22-09-2017 5:46pm

I believe the issue at BE is seperate to the IE threat (I've heard rostering issues with BE drivers and bus allocation is the issue), the media no doubt will probably try to link them though.

Stephen15 · 22-09-2017 5:56pm

I thought that all three CIE companies had pay claims in but only DB got them after last years strike. The media seemed to be portraying that they did anyway.

piplip87 · 22-09-2017 6:15pm

It's to do with days where the drivers are on emergency cover. Some drivers on cover could spend the day at home and would be covering specific routes only. So for example a driver based in Cavan would cover routes departing locally.

There has been a change in this somewhere.

************Disclaimer** * ***********

I heard this last week while waiting on a bus. 3 drivers where talking about new rosters and this seemed to be what they where speaking about. They where nit happy and mentioned complaints where lodged to the Union.

Stephen15 · 22-09-2017 6:56pm

piplip87 wrote: »

I heard this last week while waiting on a bus. 3 drivers where talking about new rosters and this seemed to be what they where speaking about. They where nit happy and mentioned complaints where lodged to the Union.

These issues tend to be highlighted during times of industrial unrest. A lot of negotiating between management and unions are done without media picking up. However due to a lot of industrial unrest as of late these issues are being highlighted.

Jamie2k9 · 23-09-2017 1:36pm

GM228 wrote: »

I believe the issue at BE is seperate to the IE threat (I've heard rostering issues with BE drivers and bus allocation is the issue), the media no doubt will probably try to link them though.

Just like unions will when selecting a day for action.....

pjohnson · 23-09-2017 1:38pm

Damn. That time of year again.

devnull · 23-09-2017 1:38pm

BE staff are talking about striking because they don't like the bus that they have been allocated?

Seriously?

pjohnson · 23-09-2017 1:52pm

devnull wrote: »

BE staff are talking about striking because they don't like the bus that they have been allocated?

Seriously?

TBF the last BE strike was because BE was loosing money. This is probably an improved excuse by their standards.

devnull · 23-09-2017 2:04pm

I wonder if this is related:

Cancellation of services on Routes NX, 103, 109A, 126 & 133
http://buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=2390&month=Sep

GM228 · 23-09-2017 2:08pm

devnull wrote: »

BE staff are talking about striking because they don't like the bus that they have been allocated?

Seriously?

Bus allocation as in no bus being allocated.

devnull · 23-09-2017 2:09pm

GM228 wrote: »

Bus allocation as in no bus being allocated.

As in there is no bus to drive or that they want to be allocated a specific bus and won't drive the route unless they get a set bus allocated?

GM228 · 23-09-2017 2:11pm

devnull wrote: »

I wonder if this is related:

Cancellation of services on Routes NX, 103, 109A, 126 & 133
http://buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=2390&month=Sep

Yes that is related.

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/19/4146041-ryanairstyle-rosters-and-new-timetables-causing-chaos/

But BE blamed it (amongst other things) on 11% of drivers going sick.

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/22/4146257-bus-chaos-bus-eireann-didnt-factor-in-students-returning-to-college/

Major unrest ahead at BE if what I have heard through the grapevine is true.

GM228 · 23-09-2017 2:13pm

devnull wrote: »

As in there is no bus to drive or that they want to be allocated a specific bus and won't drive the route unless they get a set bus allocated?

No bus to drive. Drivers will usually take any bus that is given to them in fairness.

Apart from buses not being allocated to jobs, apparently the fleet is also suffering an upsurge of "technical issues" - whatever that means and resulting in failed buses.

A big increase in technical issues* with buses, staff going sick and rostering issues - can we read between the lines?

*To be fair I'm told this IS a real issue not just down to drivers being fussy.

Jamie2k9 · 24-09-2017 2:31pm

15 scheduled bus services cancelled this morning due to operational problems.

LXFlyer · 24-09-2017 3:06pm

11% of drivers calling in sick is effectively a "red and white flu" as I guessed.

This really is shambolic.

devnull · 24-09-2017 3:17pm

Former Colleague who takes the bus to get to work from Virginia was told that there is a massive shortage of buses by a driver and that the company was underfunded and to ask the NTA to fund them properly.

devnull · 24-09-2017 3:23pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

11% of drivers calling in sick is effectively a "red and white flu" as I guessed.

This really is shambolic.

Wasn't the absentee levels one of the issues that was brought up in the last Bus Eireann Strike as being an issue which was effecting the company?

Out of interest were there any original proposed changes to the way sick days were proposed in the original proposals that BE put forward that were removed by the LRC proposal?

Stephen15 · 24-09-2017 3:28pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

11% of drivers calling in sick is effectively a "red and white flu" as I guessed.

This really is shambolic.

Why don't BE tell us what it is. An unofficial strike

LXFlyer · 24-09-2017 3:36pm

devnull wrote: »

Wasn't the absentee levels one of the issues that was brought up in the last Bus Eireann Strike as being an issue which was effecting the company?

Out of interest were there any original proposed changes to the way sick days were proposed in the original proposals that BE put forward that were removed by the LRC proposal?

Something has seriously gone wrong within the company over the past seven days.

The level of cancelled services all week has been way beyond what could ever be described as normal.

The lack of any direct communication with customers has been a disgrace.

Ray Hernan needs to get to grips with this and fast.

LXFlyer · 24-09-2017 3:41pm

devnull wrote: »

Former Colleague who takes the bus to get to work from Virginia was told that there is a massive shortage of buses by a driver and that the company was underfunded and to ask the NTA to fund them properly.

I don't tend to put much store into any of these "a driver said" tales - people have reported these kind of things before and they've been half the story at the very best, if even that.

BE is in the process of accepting new deliveries every week currently just like Dublin Bus.

devnull · 24-09-2017 3:50pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

I don't tend to put much store into any of these "a driver said" tales - people have reported these kind of things before and they've been half the story at the very best, if even that.

BE is in the process of accepting new deliveries every week currently just like Dublin Bus.

I personally don't believe it myself that there is a shortage of vehicles, bearing in mind that they have took delivery of a number of PSO vehicles so far this year so it wouldn't make sense anyway why they would be suddenly short, the fact it's happening on the weekend as well when there would be more vehicles to choose from at a depot kind of goes against that argument as well.

Something has seriously gone wrong within the company over the past seven days.

The level of cancelled services all week has been way beyond what could ever be described as normal.

The lack of any direct communication with customers has been a disgrace.

Ray Hernan needs to get to grips with this and fast.

The thing is I reckon it has to be roster related, because the trigger for the issues appears to be the changing of timetables of a group of services, at least that is how it looks from the outside, since the problems only appear to have occured since the services in that region have been reconfigured.

I'm not saying that the rosters are to blame themselves, just that it appears to have led to this red and white flu as you call it. With threats of strikes on the horizon as well as this it seems that we are going to enter another rocky period for the company unless this is dealt with sharpish..

Do we know if the services that are 'disrupted' today are running? It's most odd they use the word disruption rather than saying they are not running if they are not running, or is it just face saving PR as they don't want to use the word cancel.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 24-09-2017 6:44pm

The issue does come from the new time tables they introduced since last Sunday.

They introduced increased frequency time tables without actual increase in fleet or staff... So there is a timetable that says more buses without actual more buses being got or drivers got

Also including switching rotas around making things a bit more awkward for the drivers.

The majority of shifts now are 12 - 13 hour long days ! Ranging from starting at 3:45 in the morning and finishing after 4pm !

Yes they took some now double decker city buses but they won't be used in the country with the speed restrictions, so yes they are short buses , broadstone is not getting new commuted coaches every week.

From this week I noted drivers are exhausted, they are doing crazy hours under new rotas and shifts and bearly getting any time for other things like family , excercise or in other cases very little sleep. So expect a few days where drivers will call in sick for this but it's not an unofficial strike or unofficial action.

The company will hire in private operators to help cover services

There has been recruitment on going but an awful lot of drivers took redundancy too don't forget , inspectors took redundancy also and as a result of having no inspectors , some drivers are giving that job meaning more drivers off the road !

Drivers agree there was room for tiding up shifts and rotas etc but this has been very extreme and unacceptable for anyone in any job.

There are meetings going on between drivers unions and management from the company to hopefully get a resolution to all of this.

In regards strike , I've heard nothing from our side but the actual issue is around the CIE pension, which involves Dublin bus, Irish rail and bus Eireann, so if one goes out, they all go out , but Irish rail may go out alone for their own pay claims, there's nothing saying we are to go with them.

Hopefully that clears a few things up.

devnull · 24-09-2017 6:51pm

I'm sorry, but the bus argument has to be a red herring, if it was happening only during peak hours Monday to Friday it would be understandable but the fact it happens at the weekend where the fleet is far less intensively used shows there is a lot more to it than this.

Also Bus Eireann have had a number of 171 vehicles delivered this year of which several are operating on the 109 because I've seen them with my own eyes, they are the LC 3xx class.

LXFlyer · 24-09-2017 7:00pm

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

The issue does come from the new time tables they introduced since last Sunday.

They introduced increased frequency time tables without actual increase in fleet or staff... So there is a timetable that says more buses without actual more buses being got or drivers got

Also including switching rotas around making things a bit more awkward for the drivers.

The majority of shifts now are 12 - 13 hour long days ! Ranging from starting at 3:45 in the morning and finishing after 4pm !

Yes they took some now double decker city buses but they won't be used in the country with the speed restrictions, so yes they are short buses , broadstone is not getting new commuted coaches every week.

From this week I noted drivers are exhausted, they are doing crazy hours under new rotas and shifts and bearly getting any time for other things like family , excercise or in other cases very little sleep. So expect a few days where drivers will call in sick for this but it's not an unofficial strike or unofficial action.

The company will hire in private operators to help cover services

There has been recruitment on going but an awful lot of drivers took redundancy too don't forget , inspectors took redundancy also and as a result of having no inspectors , some drivers are giving that job meaning more drivers off the road !

Drivers agree there was room for tiding up shifts and rotas etc but this has been very extreme and unacceptable for anyone in any job.

There are meetings going on between drivers unions and management from the company to hopefully get a resolution to all of this.

In regards strike , I've heard nothing from our side but the actual issue is around the CIE pension, which involves Dublin bus, Irish rail and bus Eireann, so if one goes out, they all go out , but Irish rail may go out alone for their own pay claims, there's nothing saying we are to go with them.

Hopefully that clears a few things up.

I find it hard to believe that new schedules were implemented without the resources to deliver them (either buses or drivers) - surely if that were the case their introduction would have been deferred - implementing them regardless makes no one look any good.

When you say "our side" can you clarify what you mean by that?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 24-09-2017 9:01pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that new schedules were implemented without the resources to deliver them (either buses or drivers) - surely if that were the case their introduction would have been deferred - implementing them regardless makes no one look any good.

When you say "our side" can you clarify what you mean by that?

The NTA had a date they wanted the NX route and 109 changes implemented and bus Eireann had to obey it even without enough resources.

By our side, I am bus Eireann driver.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 24-09-2017 9:04pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that new schedules were implemented without the resources to deliver them (either buses or drivers) - surely if that were the case their introduction would have been deferred - implementing them regardless makes no one look any good.

When you say "our side" can you clarify what you mean by that?

New buses came in and old buses went out, there are about 7 coaches and 3 city buses decommissioned in broadstone due to age, failures and vehicle replacement, the new ones you mention.

I think broadstone only got about 5 of those new LCs anyway which isint enough.

But again. The NX route is a new route with a 20min frequency, that takes a lot of resources on top of the other 109 batch of routes , so it's not just restructuring one set of routes because they have added a lot of services without resources.

devnull · 24-09-2017 9:12pm

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

New buses came in and old buses went out, there are about 7 coaches and 3 city buses decommissioned in broadstone due to age, failures and vehicle replacement, the new ones you mention..

But again. The NX route is a new route with a 20min frequency, that takes a lot of resources on top of the other 109 batch of routes , so it's not just restructuring one set of routes because they have added a lot of services without resources.

I'm sorry, but the vehicle argument makes zero sense because today is Sunday and they are still cancelling services and they cancelled a lot of services yesterday as well despite the fact that the fleet utilitisation would be far lower in these times and Bus Eireann would not only have less vehicles needing to run the routes that are effected but also on the other routes ran from the same depot.

I'm not saying that vehicles are not the problem at all, but not for one minute do I buy the suggestion that services were cancelled today and yesterday because there were no serviceable vehicles left in the depot otherwise there would be massive disruption over the Broadstone ran PSO network tommorow and not just these routes if they can't even run a full much reduced vehicle requirement Sunday service, how on earth will they cope with a weekday?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 24-09-2017 9:18pm

devnull wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the vehicle argument makes zero sense because today is Sunday and they are still cancelling services and they cancelled a lot of services yesterday as well despite the fact that the fleet utilitisation would be far lower in these times and Bus Eireann would not only have less vehicles needing to run the routes that are effected but also on the other routes ran from the same depot.

I'm not saying that vehicles are not the problem at all, but not for one minute do I buy the suggestion that services were cancelled today and yesterday because there were no serviceable vehicles left in the depot otherwise there would be massive disruption over the Broadstone ran PSO network tommorow and not just these routes if they can't even run a full Sunday service, how on earth will they cope with a weekday?

I worked today, which is also another point I will make

No today, Sunday, there were plenty of vehicles available

Friday evening however was different, I finished my shift and saw many drivers looking for buses in an empty yard. Not a single bus in the yard bar the ones in parts over the pits being worked on.

The new shifts implementation is more the issue on weekends, I was due to be off today but got roped in and did an 11 and half hour shift, which I will not be doing under new pay terms because there will be no incentive.

But the point is they have new times and new routes implemented without a driver rotation to support it

Stephen15 · 24-09-2017 9:23pm

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

In regards strike , I've heard nothing from our side but the actual issue is around the CIE pension, which involves Dublin bus, Irish rail and bus Eireann, so if one goes out, they all go out , but Irish rail may go out alone for their own pay claims, there's nothing saying we are to go with them.

Hopefully that clears a few things up.

Could it be something to do with this

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/cie-threatens-to-cut-unions-out-of-pension-process-due-to-misrepresentation-35907956.html

Bus Eireann Possible Strike

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