Dublin ranks 3rd in terms of the amount of time spent in cars due to congestion

Pinch Flat · 21-03-2019 10:18pm

Other than an unfounded rant, has anyone established what the Embalmers comments have to do with Dublin gridlock caused by motor vehicles?

John_Rambo · 21-03-2019 10:21pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Other than an unfounded rant, has anyone established what the Embalmers comments have to do with Dublin gridlock caused by motor vehicles?

Nothing but unsubstantiated waffle and hard to believe anecdotes. Classic trolling. Failed to prove a single point. Disapointing to see the likes of the enbalmer representing me as a motorist.

Pinch Flat · 21-03-2019 10:24pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Nothing but unsubstantiated waffle and hard to believe anecdotes. Classic trolling. Failed to prove a single point. Disapointing to see the likes of the enbalmer representing me as a motorist.

It’s an interesting insight into the mind of Joe public who spends a lot of time stuck in traffic.

AndrewJRenko · 21-03-2019 10:28pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

And so do animals, trees and other debris

I've never had trees or debris stepping out in front of me in 50 years of cycling. I can recall one case of an dog running out between two parked cars. Dogs ARE required to be licensed, right? And dog owners are required by law to keep their dogs under control, right?

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Speaking of not paying attention..i've noticed a trend amongst cyclists lately of watching youtube on their phones as they cycle.

Le me guess..car drivers do that too?

If you like, I'll dig out a couple of videos of drivers with videos playing while driving, So yes, drivers do this too, at worrying frequency - about one or two a week in my experience. Some watching videos, some doing Skype/Facetime video chats, some catching up on their soaps or Netflix, I've seen it all.

I have seen cyclists using their phone while cycling, usually causing danger to themselves, very occasionally causing danger for pedestrians.

But cyclists watching YouTube? Seen by someone who has previously expressed their abhorrence for any form of transport other than their four door sedan?

Who do you think you're kidding? You're not kidding me.

rosmoke · 21-03-2019 10:33pm

Citywest to UCD used to take 2 hours, recently they introduced a bus, was about time.
Car to Blanchardstown takes me 15 min, with bus 2 hours cause I have to go to almost city centre, thank you Dublin.

Walking is faster than Dublin bus.
We've close to no apartments and the ones we have are pure ****e.
Drivers that regularly pass on red light, every day I see someone passing on red light, and because of that, we have a light instead of give way where we have left turns for example.
It's just incredible that in a capital this small we have such bad traffic.

Thargor · 21-03-2019 10:53pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Anybody I saw doing it had a thing on the bike to sit the phone onto.

I hope you're not calling me a liar?

I should've taken pics but I guess photographing strangers to prove a point just isn't my thing.

Yeah Im pretty sure you're lying there along with your various other statements.

Shai · 21-03-2019 11:06pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Sigh

Yawn

Linky

Other linky

And another

Finally, some links have been provided. Thank you. Before venturing a look at these, let's first have a quick reminder that you were going to prove that cyclists are not getting fined for breaking the rules of the road, and more importantly, that cyclists getting killed by cars is because of cyclists breaking lights.

Right. Time to click on your links.

Oh.

It appears you failed to prove any of those claims. Instead it seems you have opted to go for a "cyclists are actually really dangerous and here is why" motif. Perhaps, this could be considered a hopeful sign. Perhaps, you trying to avoid responsibility for claiming "cyclists getting killed by cars is because of cyclists breaking lights" actually shows some latent degree of self-awareness. There might be hope yet.

Let's dig in further.

Oh.

It appears that all of these links are in fact focussed on issues in the UK. An easy mistake to make. How indeed would you have been able to figure out that in a thread on an Irish forum about the state of Irish commuting being frequented by people living in Ireland, that there was an implicit assumption your sources should in fact relate to Ireland. This shall forever remain a mystery.

At this point I find myself actually feeling bad about myself. I find myself wondering if I have in fact been slagging off someone who might perhaps best be described as "educationally subnormal". It would explain a great many things, like the inability to provide relevant statistics, or the complete failure to absorb relevant statistics that were provided to him. Most of all, it would explain the unusual pride this person seems to feel about achieving car ownership. For most, owning a car is a not especially noticeable bullet point in our lives. It's something that was accomplished, sure, but it is rarely seen as an achievement. But to you, it may actually be a highlight.

The Enbalmer · 21-03-2019 11:14pm

Twisted leotards all over the place.

The MAMILS are baying for blood ðŸ€£

rosmoke · 21-03-2019 11:25pm

Ok, you got big balls. Happy now?
Moving on ..

Shai wrote: »

Finally, some links have been provided. Thank you. Before venturing a look at these, let's first have a quick reminder that you were going to prove that cyclists are not getting fined for breaking the rules of the road, and more importantly, that cyclists getting killed by cars is because of cyclists breaking lights.

Right. Time to click on your links.

Oh.

It appears you failed to prove any of those claims. Instead it seems you have opted to go for a "cyclists are actually really dangerous and here is why" motif. Perhaps, this could be considered a hopeful sign. Perhaps, you trying to avoid responsibility for claiming "cyclists getting killed by cars is because of cyclists breaking lights" actually shows some latent degree of self-awareness. There might be hope yet.

Let's dig in further.

Oh.

It appears that all of these links are in fact focussed on issues in the UK. An easy mistake to make. How indeed would you have been able to figure out that in a thread on an Irish forum about the state of Irish commuting being frequented by people living in Ireland, that there was an implicit assumption your sources should in fact relate to Ireland. This shall forever remain a mystery.

At this point I find myself actually feeling bad about myself. I find myself wondering if I have in fact been slagging off someone who might perhaps best be described as "educationally subnormal". It would explain a great many things, like the inability to provide relevant statistics, or the complete failure to absorb relevant statistics that were provided to him. Most of all, it would explain the unusual pride this person seems to feel about achieving car ownership. For most, owning a car is a not especially noticeable bullet point in our lives. It's something that was accomplished, sure, but it is rarely seen as an achievement. But to you, it may actually be a highlight.

John_Rambo · 21-03-2019 11:34pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Twisted leotards all over the place.

The MAMILS are baying for blood ��

For the sixth time, do you have the ability to put your money where your mouth is and find some info and stats that prove cyclists are a danger, or indeed a bigger danger than cars are in Dublin city?

Your immature jibes and slagings aimed at "leotards" are getting you nowhere but furthering your evident ignorance for the reasons that Dublin ranks the 3rd in terms of the amount of time spent in cars due to congestion. It's obvious to everyone but you that every cyclist means a car off the road leaving more space for genuine sales car & van users with tools and equipment that have genuine needs to take their cars/vans to work.

Nobody is baying for blood, that's in your ever broadening imagination. We want to see less blood on the road.

Can you grow up and back up your claims like an adult or are you going to, again, wimp out with your continuing weak snipes and ill informed cheap shots?

monument · 22-03-2019 12:36am

Everybody -- back on topic now. Please and thank you!

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I've seen you on the RSA pages on FB almost word for word what you've written too.

You consistently get your ass handed to you on FB so I won't further humiliate you here.

You can't afford a car,I get it.

I cycle myself but I drive to work because I can.

Jealousy is a terrible affliction and making up facts and figures will not change that.

You need to read the commuting and transport charter before posting again.

Your posting quality need to improve -- ie cut out the sniping, cut out the one-liner replies, cut out posting links to UK articles when asked about Dublin City Centre.

-- moderator

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Pedestrians are not Road users they cross the roads but they do not travel on the roads.

I beleive you were told this numerous times when you were trolling the RSA pages on FB.

Pedestrians are road users under Irish law.

This is not up for debate.

-- moderator

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do get to see the screen of their phone clearly enough to know what they're watching from the seat of your four door sedan? Wouldn't their phone be above your level?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, you didn't say that before, until you were backed into a corner, surprisingly enough.

Please deal with what posters say and not what mode of transport you think they use or don't use.

-- moderator

Idbatterim · 22-03-2019 11:15am

Would putting a toll to cross over the canals , say e1 etc, cut down traffic that might just walk or cycle instead?

cdaly_ · 22-03-2019 11:31am

Idbatterim wrote: »

Would putting a toll to cross over the canals , say e1 etc, cut down traffic that might just walk or cycle instead?

Not if the toll was €1. Something like €20 each way to cross the M50 and a further €20 each way to cross the canals.

Include park and ride at €10 outside the M50 but you get a day's leap card credit thrown in.

You could include 'necessary use' exemptions for wheelchair users or heavy tool transport etc.

amcalester · 22-03-2019 12:06pm

cdaly_ wrote: »

Not if the toll was €1. Something like €20 each way to cross the M50 and a further €20 each way to cross the canals.

Include park and ride at €10 outside the M50 but you get a day's leap card credit thrown in.

You could include 'necessary use' exemptions for wheelchair users or heavy tool transport etc.

That'll defeat the purpose of the M50, better to toll based on the number of exits traveled. Getting on at 1 and exiting at the next being more expensive than someone who goes the full length of it.

cdaly_ · 22-03-2019 12:53pm

amcalester wrote: »

That'll defeat the purpose of the M50, better to toll based on the number of exits traveled. Getting on at 1 and exiting at the next being more expensive than someone who goes the full length of it.

No. I'm talking about crossing the M50. You can travel along it all you like...

amcalester · 22-03-2019 1:30pm

cdaly_ wrote: »

No. I'm talking about crossing the M50. You can travel along it all you like...

Ah, sorry I read that as increasing the current toll.

Still thinks it's unworkable, too big of an area. I do think there'll eventually be a congestion charge within the canals with some of the main arterial roads excluded.

Hurrache · 22-03-2019 1:56pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Pedestrians are not Road users they cross the roads but they do not travel on the roads.

Ermm, they do. In fact I only done so at lunch time.

PhilOssophy · 22-03-2019 3:33pm

I think the mods should put a stop to every thread turning into cyclists v car drivers, quoting stats, etc.
As a pedestrian most of the time around Dublin, both are as bad as each other.

monument · 22-03-2019 3:39pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I think the mods should put a stop to every thread turning into cyclists v car drivers, quoting stats, etc.
As a pedestrian most of the time around Dublin, both are as bad as each other.

The mods have already told all posters to get back on topic — please don’t discuss moderation in-thread.

— moderator

PhilOssophy · 22-03-2019 3:41pm

monument wrote: »

The mods have already told all posters to get back on topic — please don’t discuss moderation in-thread.

— moderator

Sorry, I'd skipped a load of pages of predictable dross between them.

average_runner · 22-03-2019 4:02pm

cdaly_ wrote: »

Not if the toll was €1. Something like €20 each way to cross the M50 and a further €20 each way to cross the canals.

Include park and ride at €10 outside the M50 but you get a day's leap card credit thrown in.

You could include 'necessary use' exemptions for wheelchair users or heavy tool transport etc.

You need to have a quality bus service before you can do that.

sharper · 22-03-2019 4:10pm

average_runner wrote: »

You need to have a quality bus service before you can do that.

You need a plan which will deliver a quality bus service and implement things simultaneously.

The problem we see right now via Bus Connects is people are opposing the plan to improve the bus service because they want to use their cars because the bus service isn't good enough.

average_runner · 22-03-2019 4:15pm

sharper wrote: »

You need a plan which will deliver a quality bus service and implement things simultaneously.

The problem we see right now via Bus Connects is people are opposing the plan to improve the bus service because they want to use their cars because the bus service isn't good enough.

Well there is that, but there also the situation where people need to get into work for 8/9 on sunday morning and there is no bus service till after 9!!

John_Rambo · 22-03-2019 4:37pm

I’m guessing if cars are further discouraged from driving in to the city, the buses and LUAS will move a lot better and more units can be provided.

average_runner · 22-03-2019 4:39pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

I’m guessing if cars are further discouraged from driving in to the city, the buses and LUAS will move a lot better and more units can be provided.

Aye that's the sensible thinking, now you forgot we have unions in the country who look after their own interest!!!

SeanW · 24-03-2019 9:16pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was rush hour, around 8.30am.

If you want me to do your research for you, then we'll need to agree an hourly rate in advance.

I suspect that no amount of evidence would be sufficient for some here.

Nevertheless I actually looked at this again this week. I happened to be around the Bank of Ireland on College Green this past Friday, and I took some photos of the mess as it existed around 6:30 PM, more like a few minutes after. Normally one would hope that the evening rush would begin to subside at that point but it was still at least part in full swing and I would estimate that it would have taken a bus trying to get beyond College St. (either D'Olier St to Grafton St, or from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St.) anywhere from 10-30 minutes to do so.

See attachments to this post. You can see buses, taxis and Luas trams jockeying for inadequate road space. You can also see queues of buses backed up from the CG junction all the way up D'Olier St and beyond the Garda Station on Pearse St.

There is a serious problem at that junction and the photos I've posted show at least partial evidence of that.

Because what you see in those photos is the results of decades of under-investment in public transport in Dublin. You can wax lyrical about the evil motorists all you like it doesn't change the fact that the alternatives other cities have, like Metro or even tram networks, extensive suburban rail systems etc, just don't exist.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

What do you think is the main factor impacting on an inefficient bus system in Dublin? I’m guessing people travelling to the city in 20% full vehicles has a lot to do with it. And where bus lanes are provided, motorists still insist on using them.

That’s the circular argument about bus transport in Dublin. People who insist on driving to the city centre say they won’t use buses because they’re slow. Yet they’re part of the problem contributing to this. There’s an attitude that I can do it my car, but when 100,000 other people do it it kind of screws it up for everyone.

Private motorists are banned form many movements through College Green.

Pinch Flat wrote:

Sad thing is, a lot of motorists would think this is serious. Don't underestimate Joe Public who wants to drive from his 3 bed semi in Lucan to the office door in Dublin 2.

Funny, this was EXACTLY what I had to do by bus last year. IMO anyone who tries to do that by car is insane, because if it takes 2 hours by bus, with bus lanes all the way, how long would it take in a private car?

But lets assume that there are thousands of people driving every weekday from Lucan to an office in D2, and that they are not all certifiably insane for doing so. What should they do instead? Move to Windy Arbor and get the Luas? (Spoiler: It's maxed out and they might not be able to get on). How about move to Donaghmede? That's not a good idea either, because DARTs coming into the city around 9AM at least from the Northside are sardine cans, they can't take any more people). Or maybe they should stay in Lucan and enjoy averaging 5 MPH on some variant of the 25? What are the alternatives?

RacoonQueen · 24-03-2019 9:38pm

Take out the private property dumped in picture 2 and you've got another lane for traffic Sean.

Jeez this thread has reminded me why I moved close to my office.

John_Rambo · 24-03-2019 10:27pm

From what I can see all the traffic in those (still) photos is moving bar one. Imagine we threw private cars back in to the mix?

Thargor · 24-03-2019 10:32pm

Theres no half an hour wait in any of them pics! One or two traffic light cycles would clear all of the vehicles in any of your pics. You have one image of a LUAS making its way along unimpeded, but you describe this as "Luas trams jockeying for inadequate road space"?

AndrewJRenko · 24-03-2019 11:17pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

From what I can see all the traffic in those (still) photos is moving bar one. Imagine we threw private cars back in to the mix?

They raise the question of why we let taxis in bus lanes and bus gates.

magicbastarder · 24-03-2019 11:22pm

picture 1 - i can see what i think are 4 or 5 buses, and 8 or 9 taxis.
picture 2 - much harder to tell, but about the same ratio.
not madly dissimilar for most other shots. given that a car takes up pretty much half the space of a dublin bus, it is making a good argument for banning taxis from college green. you could probably double the number of buses by removing the taxis, so passenger throughput would increase.

SeanW · 24-03-2019 11:23pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

From what I can see all the traffic in those (still) photos is moving bar one. Imagine we threw private cars back in to the mix?

1) I did not take video on Friday. The stills were to show how far back the buses were queuing at that point. And while in some the buses were moving albeit very slowly, mostly if there's blur it's because of the camera taking poor pictures in those conditions.
2) I am certainly not suggesting that we "throw private cars back into the mix" at that junction as it would be madness in that case. What I am suggesting is that any proposed solution must involve more than just crapping on motorists. Something no-one here seems capable of.

John_Rambo · 25-03-2019 12:05am

SeanW wrote: »

1) I did not take video on Friday. The stills were to show how far back the buses were queuing at that point. And while in some the buses were moving albeit very slowly, mostly if there's blur it's because of the camera taking poor pictures in those conditions.
2) I am certainly not suggesting that we "throw private cars back into the mix" at that junction as it would be madness in that case. What I am suggesting is that any proposed solution must involve more than just crapping on motorists. Something no-one here seems capable of.

Yeah, point taken and thanks for taking the time to put up images. They seem to be moving in all but one of the photos looking at the brake lights and the positioning of the buses. In one the lane that the buses could overtake each other is blocked by cars. I'm a motorist myself, but I'm experienced enough to know that motorists are the main cause of traffic delays in Dublin. Huge injections of money needs to be made in the city to get motorists out of the cars and in to a decent public transport system.

I can't see it happening very quickly. TD's from over represented other parts of the country on the receiving end of motorways with future full capacity and road upgrades to service sparse populations do not want to see money being spent on an underground metro style service for the capital. And they seem to be having their way.

magicbastarder · 25-03-2019 9:48pm

https://twitter.com/cosaingalway/status/1110174376840884224

LeinsterDub · 25-03-2019 9:51pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I think the mods should put a stop to every thread turning into cyclists v car drivers, quoting stats, etc.
As a pedestrian most of the time around Dublin, both are as bad as each other.

In terms of outcomes they are quite evidently not.

downtheroad · 15-04-2019 9:38am

I found the traffic in Dublin much lighter today even with the poor weather. It's amazing the difference schools being off makes.

punisher5112 · 15-04-2019 9:40am

downtheroad wrote: »

I found the traffic in Dublin much lighter today even with the poor weather. It's amazing the difference schools being off makes.

Just shows you how many lazy kids and parents there are out there.

I walked or cycled to school no issues and it's amazing to see the same cars every day sit in traffic to drop the kids to turn back and sit in traffic again.

See so many that are a 10 minutes walk from house to school but they will sit in the car for 30 minutes or more...

Qrt · 15-04-2019 10:04am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Just shows you how many lazy kids and parents there are out there.

I walked or cycled to school no issues and it's amazing to see the same cars every day sit in traffic to drop the kids to turn back and sit in traffic again.

See so many that are a 10 minutes walk from house to school but they will sit in the car for 30 minutes or more...

The issue of schoolbags needs to be dealt with fairly urgently. My bag was routinely 10kg in weight, having to walk to the bus was absolute torture when I had to do it. Looking back (it’s not long ago), I would’ve LOVED to cycle to school, but the weight is a major obstacle.

punisher5112 · 15-04-2019 10:13am

Qrt wrote: »

The issue of schoolbags needs to be dealt with fairly urgently. My bag was routinely 10kg in weight, having to walk to the bus was absolute torture when I had to do it. Looking back (it’s not long ago), I would’ve LOVED to cycle to school, but the weight is a major obstacle.

Strap onto bike???

magicbastarder · 15-04-2019 10:18am

it's not just the parents not dropping their kids to school, you'll almost certainly find that there are more parents taking the week off themselves too, so there's less worker commuter traffic also.

punisher5112 · 15-04-2019 10:20am

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's not just the parents not dropping their kids to school, you'll almost certainly find that there are more parents taking the week off themselves too, so there's less worker commuter traffic also.

Of course but school drop offs are huge...

Anteayer · 15-04-2019 10:24am

We did the cart before horse approach to building.
Major suburbs like Tallaght and Blancharstown were built without any notion of putting in public transport. The first thing that should have been going in was some kind of high capacity rail link to the city and serving major business parks in the suburbs.

Fixing this is expensive or even impossible as you're retrofitting trams or metro to already built sprawl.

It's neither the European approach of putting in decent mass transit from the start nor is it the American approach of accepting it's car dependent and putting in adequate road infrastructure from day one. We seem to have planning that is based on an assumption that teleportation is arriving any day soon.

You're paying for abysmal planning or lack of planning.

We also aren't spending enough on mass transit at all.

Dublin's managed to build two tramlines (one of which was already an old Victorian railway for most of its route) and electrified one heavy rail line that's been running since the dawn of railways. The rest of the commuter network, if you ban even all it that, is diesel!!

Meanwhile Cork, which is growing fast has plans but no realistic finding for any start on tramways or similar.

If we don't put in the planning and resourcing we can't then moan about sitting in cars for hours every day.

What we have is exactly what we've voted for over the years. We tolerated and even actively encouraged bad planning and continue to pay absolutely no attention to local authority elections. Instead we use TDs as fixers and turn urban infrastructure into national political footballs.

Maybe the dawn of executive mayors in Cork etc and hopefully that spreading to Dublin soon will change the focus, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Qrt · 15-04-2019 11:49am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Strap onto bike???

Tried that while in Germany, very destabilising. Alternatively I could've gotten pannier bags, but then I would've had a s*** kicked out of me for looking like a postman.

Sort out the schoolbook situation (which is ridiculous) and it's a win-win!

Lord Glentoran · 15-04-2019 2:27pm

Anteayer wrote: »

We did the cart before horse approach to building.
Major suburbs like Tallaght and Blancharstown were built without any notion of putting in public transport. The first thing that should have been going in was some kind of high capacity rail link to the city and serving major business parks in the suburbs.

Fixing this is expensive or even impossible as you're retrofitting trams or metro to already built sprawl.

It's neither the European approach of putting in decent mass transit from the start nor is it the American approach of accepting it's car dependent and putting in adequate road infrastructure from day one. We seem to have planning that is based on an assumption that teleportation is arriving any day soon.

You're paying for abysmal planning or lack of planning.

We also aren't spending enough on mass transit at all.

Dublin's managed to build two tramlines (one of which was already an old Victorian railway for most of its route) and electrified one heavy rail line that's been running since the dawn of railways. The rest of the commuter network, if you ban even all it that, is diesel!!

Meanwhile Cork, which is growing fast has plans but no realistic finding for any start on tramways or similar.

If we don't put in the planning and resourcing we can't then moan about sitting in cars for hours every day.

What we have is exactly what we've voted for over the years. We tolerated and even actively encouraged bad planning and continue to pay absolutely no attention to local authority elections. Instead we use TDs as fixers and turn urban infrastructure into national political footballs.

Maybe the dawn of executive mayors in Cork etc and hopefully that spreading to Dublin soon will change the focus, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Rail was proposed at the same time that Tallaght and Blanch were being built but commentators and senior civil servants jumped up and down on the notion that suburbs should get rail at all. Even the 1981 Maynooth service sailed past nearly all of Blanch until as late as 1990.

Anteayer · 15-04-2019 4:48pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Rail was proposed at the same time that Tallaght and Blanch were being built but commentators and senior civil servants jumped up and down on the notion that suburbs should get rail at all. Even the 1981 Maynooth service sailed past nearly all of Blanch until as late as 1990.

That's the problem though. We've had absolutely zero vision. It's just slap up as many ticky-tacky boxes as you can and plan for absolutely no infrastructure.

I mean the Dublin Area basically ran out of water because it forgot to build any new reservoirs to supply the vast number of homes put up since the 1990s and it's choked on traffic because once again nobody seems to have realised that a lot of people would need to get to and from the city centre and other places of work.

We build houses, not communities.

donvito99 · 15-04-2019 6:22pm

I wonder if congestion charging were introduced, would we have schools off traffic every day of the working week, all year around?

Anteayer · 16-04-2019 9:52am

I don't really see how you can introduce congestion charging with abysmally under developed public transport.
It works in London because it has one of the best underground metro systems in the world.

Idbatterim · 16-04-2019 9:56am

“We did the cart before horse approach to building.
Major suburbs like Tallaght and Blancharstown were built without any notion of putting in public transport. The first thing that should have been going in was some kind of high capacity rail link to the city and serving major business parks in the suburbs.

Fixing this is expensive or even impossible as you're retrofitting trams or metro to already built sprawl.

It's neither the European approach of putting in decent mass transit from the start nor is it the American approach of accepting it's car dependent and putting in adequate road infrastructure from day one. We seem to have planning that is based on an assumption that teleportation is arriving any day soon.”

This hits the nail on the head. Build an entirely car dependent city and roads suitable for villages to take them all. Absolute joke. Certainly dublin metro And dart underground would Hoover up large amounts of traffic. But there are a huge number of trips , that will never make sense by public transport

Lord Glentoran · 16-04-2019 10:28am

Idbatterim wrote: »

“We did the cart before horse approach to building.
Major suburbs like Tallaght and Blancharstown were built without any notion of putting in public transport. The first thing that should have been going in was some kind of high capacity rail link to the city and serving major business parks in the suburbs.

Fixing this is expensive or even impossible as you're retrofitting trams or metro to already built sprawl.

It's neither the European approach of putting in decent mass transit from the start nor is it the American approach of accepting it's car dependent and putting in adequate road infrastructure from day one. We seem to have planning that is based on an assumption that teleportation is arriving any day soon.”

This hits the nail on the head. Build an entirely car dependent city and roads suitable for villages to take them all. Absolute joke. Certainly dublin metro And dart underground would Hoover up large amounts of traffic. But there are a huge number of trips , that will never make sense by public transport

But shure we had transport. Sand coloured crawling buses on infrequent A, B and C variations. Shure ‘twas grand

downtheroad · 16-04-2019 2:32pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's not just the parents not dropping their kids to school, you'll almost certainly find that there are more parents taking the week off themselves too, so there's less worker commuter traffic also.

Maybe, but the biggest junction nearest to my house has anywhere between 30-40 cars waiting to proceed each morning while today and yesterday there was between 5-10. Anecdotal I know, but I find it hard to believe this drop off is solely down to people being away on holiday. The junction is also close to a few schools as it happens.

Dublin ranks 3rd in terms of the amount of time spent in cars due to congestion

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