Dublin ranks 3rd in terms of the amount of time spent in cars due to congestion

SeanW · 13-03-2019 1:05am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You're failing to see the wood for the trees. The problem with College Green isn't College Green.

Have you ever been to Dublin? Seriously? I remember before they built the Luas extension, getting around CG in the peak in bus or a taxi used to be not too bad. Until someone decided that it would be a good idea to save money by taking up half of it for a tram that should have been built as a Metro, with that junction dedicated to usage that had to be on the surface like buses and so forth. College Green is also connected to much of the rest of the city by bus lanes. This idea that cars elsewhere in the city are responsible for a junction that's been turned into a disaster by a should-have-been-Metro Luas, is bizarre to say the least.

I suspect it is you who are failing to see the wood for the trees. You obviously have a problem with motorists and you're letting that blind you to the fact that the problems in cities like Dublin are FAR beyond anything you can reasonably blame on motorists. Slow, overcrowded and mostly non-existent, 3rd world public transport. Housing that is scarce and where available is eye-wateringly expensive, and in the case of apartments, overpriced cheap-and-nasty garbage with paper-thin walls where you can hear your neighbors going to the toilet and often have fire safety issues.

But why address any of that when you can crap on motorists, right? :rolleyes:

Yes, motorists do pay for the NCT and for their driving licence. They don't pay the cost of the speeding vans. The State is on the hook for the remaining €10million each year just because motorists won't stick to the speed limit. That's a couple of primary care centres going unfunded because of speeding motorists.

Maybe it's because motorist don't speed as much as they "should?" For example, I tend to stick to speed limits especially when they are clearly appropriately set. 50kph in a clearly built up area? I'll stick to that. 80 or 100kph on a main road? Makes sense ... as a consequence I've never had to pay a speeding fine.

By your logic, I'm "costing" the taxpayer by not speeding past speed vans and helping, via speeding fines, to pay their costs. Perhaps we should all just break speed limits more to incur an extra €10m in fines and close the gap? Or maybe - just maybe - motorists speeding isn't the problem you'd have us believe.

You don't get credit for 'paying part of the cost' - you get to take the responsibility for the €10m in state funding that you drag away from productive purposes to stop motorists from killing themselves and each other.

Bull. Motorists pay huge amounts of motoring related taxes specifically related to road usage in addition to their other taxes as citizens - all of which entitles people to a variety of public services.

And that's before you even think about the cost of the Garda Traffic Unit

What is the budget for the Garda Traffic Corps? What should it be?

Your €25 bn benefit is mythical.

It was a conservative estimate. The true figure of quality of life benefits to people in society is probably many multiples of that.

You confuse value with cost.

People pay cost to get value. Every time you buy anything, you send a signal that the acquisition of whatever it is, is worth more to you than the continued ownership of money that you spent. If it isn't you won't buy it.

And even it does create value, it is value for the individuals, not for society that is covering the cost.

Now you are just trying to have your cake and eat it too. Either individuals are part of society, or they are not.

If individuals are part of society, then the "externalities" that harm individuals are indeed costs to society of motoring, but the value gained by individuals - which is absolutely enormous - are also benefits to society and they outweigh the costs which is why we allow people to drive.

Either that or "society" is just some abstract concept, to which even large numbers of individuals are not directly linked, in which case you are correct that the benefits of motoring are not societal, but then neither are the external costs.

So no, the comment on freeloading, scrounging motorists is far from a joke.

Good. Because if that was an attempt at humour, it was pathetic.

AndrewJRenko · 13-03-2019 8:51am

SeanW wrote: »

Have you ever been to Dublin? Seriously? I remember before they built the Luas extension, getting around CG in the peak in bus or a taxi

Well, I may not have 5 years experience of dealing with problems caused by trams that have been in place for one year, but yeah I have been around Dublin city for a while - and I see all the lads driving around with the empty armchair beside them and the empty couch behind them, complaining about the space taken up by other modes of travel.

monument · 13-03-2019 10:55am

Just to explain openly why no action will be taken for this part of an above post:

When are freeloading motorists going to stop scrounging off the rest of society?

That’s clearly a ironic take flipping what’s said to cyclists back on motorists. SeanW (who is clearly pro-motorist) gets that. If you don’t get it you need to take a step back from your keyboard before getting annoyed. I know I’m likely to be taken up wrong here but please ask yourself is the point scoring or getting worked up about it worth it?

Normal rules apply. Do not reply to this post.

— moderator

monument · 13-03-2019 10:55am

Just to explain openly why no action will be taken for this part of an above post:

When are freeloading motorists going to stop scrounging off the rest of society?

That’s clearly a ironic take flipping what’s said to cyclists back on motorists. SeanW (who is clearly pro-motorist) gets that. If you don’t get it you need to take a step back from your keyboard before getting annoyed. I know I’m likely to be taken up wrong here but please ask yourself is the point scoring or getting worked up about it worth it?

Normal rules apply. Do not reply to this post.

— moderator

AndrewJRenko · 13-03-2019 9:41pm

SeanW wrote: »

What stuck out at me the most was that fully 1 hour of this (30 minutes each way) was lost trying to clear the whole College Green/Westmoreland/D'Olier St. mess - from which private motorists are banned. This is the state of public transport services in Ireland. Slow, infrequent, often indirect, often overcrowded and/or uncomfortable, and that's if you're lucky enough that it even exists in the first place.

The point is worth re-iterating. 30 minutes to clear one junction alone. A junction private motorists cannot use, and so cannot contribute to its problems.

It didn't seem to take 30 minutes to clear the whole College Green/Westmorland St mess this morning in rush hour - maybe more like 3 minutes;

https://streamable.com/xt3u6

SeanW · 16-03-2019 2:59pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It didn't seem to take 30 minutes to clear the whole College Green/Westmorland St mess this morning in rush hour - maybe more like 3 minutes;

https://streamable.com/xt3u6

Thanks for this video. It is indeed very informative, but perhaps not in the way that you intended.

Your view, as I understand it, is that the main problem with Dublin is that some people drive. The slow/overcrowded/nonexistent public transport and the dire housing situation have not as yet featured in any of your posts - despite the indisputable fact that both inadequate public transport and long commutes are central causes of congestion. But no, it's all just one-dimensional motorist bashing.

I assumed that the reason for this bizarre myopia was that you did not live or work in Dublin. However, as you so helpfully illustrated, it has another explanation.

Your video suggests that you live close enough to Dublin City Centre that you can commute by bicycle to and indeed beyond the D'Olier/Westmoreland/College Green mess.
It also suggests that because you happen to be able to get around it relatively easy, by your mode, on your particular route, its problems aren't all that real to you individually. Thusly from your perspective those who have experienced issues here are overstating the case.

Your vision does not extend beyond the handlebars of your bike. Your analysis of the situation is facile, and your conclusions so far at variance with reality in almost every imaginable way that it beggars belief.

I can assure you that the problems that make Dublin a congested, un-livable mess for many people are in fact real, and my experience of them seems to be much broader than yours. I know because my landlord sold the house I'd been living in just over a year ago and I had to do the B&B scene for a few months last year because I simply couldn't find anything else for no matter how much money I was willing to offer - and that was a considerable sum! It was no big deal because I'm a young-ish man with a decent job, plenty of savings, and a family home I could go to at the weekend.
But in the course of that I got to experience the joy of commuting from a wide variety of Dublin locations, Park West, Glasnevin, Navan Road, Lucan etc. It was nightmare, each place was worse than the last in terms of commuting time and stupid delays traveling relatively short distances.
I also encountered families living in said hotels and it was not uncommon for me starting some stupidly long (time wise but short in distance) commute to see families preparing to take their children to school from the cheap hotel rooms the whole family was living in. This is the reality of life in Dublin today.

You want to know why there's travel chaos, homelessness and a myriad of other problems in Dublin? It's because they have been allowed to fester, mainly by people with small horizons and intentional mental blind-spots.
Simply because you may not affected by many of these problems (homelessness, slow/nonexistant/overcrowded public transport and so on) doesn't mean that they are not real.
They most certainly are, and the motorists you seem to despise so much are - at worst - symptoms of much deeper malaise. A malaise that to solve is going to require actual solutions, solutions I have not read in this thread.

AndrewJRenko · 16-03-2019 3:11pm

SeanW wrote: »

Thanks for this video. It is indeed very informative, but perhaps not in the way that you intended.

So we're just going to forget about how you said it takes 30 minutes for a bus to get through College Green at peak time, when it clearly doesn't?

SeanW · 16-03-2019 4:32pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So we're just going to forget about how you said it takes 30 minutes for a bus to get through College Green at peak time, when it clearly doesn't?

All your video showed was that it takes you a few minutes on your bicycle, on your particular route. More power to you as far as I'm concerned, but your experience is not broadly representative.

I remember commuting on different variations of the 25 bus to get between Lucan and Merrion Sq. which was my worst experience (albeit by a thin margin) while doing the B&B scene. Each way 2 hours minimum on a commute of less than 10 miles. 1/2 hour of that trying to get around the D'Olier St/Westmoreland/College Green mess.

In the evening The queue of buses to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland Street and out to the quays was unreal, despite the fact that motorists are banned from that movement. The reverse was true in the morning, and in all cases the quays were also very slow, despite having bus lanes all the way.

What all of this proved to me beyond any doubt is that the time for blaming motorists and faffing around with buses is long, long over. It's time to get the diggers out building Metros, DARTs and decent quality houses/apartments for people.

AndrewJRenko · 18-03-2019 10:46am

SeanW wrote: »

All your video showed was that it takes you a few minutes on your bicycle, on your particular route. More power to you as far as I'm concerned, but your experience is not broadly representative.

Were you wearing blinkers? Look around the video - the road is largely clear, with small queues at each set of lights. No-one is taking 30 minutes to get through College Green on a bus there.

You're right to say it's not necessarily representative. It's just one rush hour trip. For me, it seems to be fairly representative of my experiences getting through College Green. There were longer delays last year when the Luas Cross City started, there were delays of maybe 5 minutes, at a stretch 10 minutes - but nothing like 30 minutes.

I can only conclude that your description of 30 minute delays is a large exaggeration for your own reasons.

Qrt · 18-03-2019 3:37pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Were you wearing blinkers? Look around the video - the road is largely clear, with small queues at each set of lights. No-one is taking 30 minutes to get through College Green on a bus there.

You're right to say it's not necessarily representative. It's just one rush hour trip. For me, it seems to be fairly representative of my experiences getting through College Green. There were longer delays last year when the Luas Cross City started, there were delays of maybe 5 minutes, at a stretch 10 minutes - but nothing like 30 minutes.

I can only conclude that your description of 30 minute delays is a large exaggeration for your own reasons.

30 mins was approximately the delay experienced when Luas Cross City had its first Monday morning rush hour to deal with, couldn’t clear the bridge because a few taxis blocked it was the common thing.

AndrewJRenko · 18-03-2019 5:16pm

Qrt wrote: »

30 mins was approximately the delay experienced when Luas Cross City had its first Monday morning rush hour to deal with, couldn’t clear the bridge because a few taxis blocked it was the common thing.

And it took a month or two for them to sort that out, right?

Qrt · 18-03-2019 7:01pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And it took a month or two for them to sort that out, right?

No clue really, I just know it was an absolute sh!tshow for ages. It still is mind, the luas signals still allow for the longer trams to block the quays if the first attempt is blocked (which is a chronic issue at Rosie Hackett/Burgh Quay)

AndrewJRenko · 18-03-2019 7:34pm

Qrt wrote: »

No clue really, I just know it was an absolute sh!tshow for ages. It still is mind, the luas signals still allow for the longer trams to block the quays if the first attempt is blocked (which is a chronic issue at Rosie Hackett/Burgh Quay)

There's certainly not 30 minute delays happening regularly these days.

The Enbalmer · 20-03-2019 11:14am

downtheroad wrote: »

I live near a dart station and the amount of people who drive as close to it as they can each morning and then leave their expensive metal box randomly parked on a road is disgraceful. And several of these people could benefit from the walk or cycle to the station.

You should get off your bicycle and tell them that.

Shai · 20-03-2019 12:21pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

You should get off your bicycle and tell them that.

nah, I'd rather ask them about it on the rare occasion when they're walking about. Much safer that way.

John_Rambo · 20-03-2019 12:31pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

You should get off your bicycle and tell them that.

Why would he do that? Silly & unhelpful post.

It just proves that people are willing to get out of their cars and use public transport instead of driving in to the city centre, it is, in essence park and riding. I live close to a DART station and see the same thing, people driving in the rain to park and ride. I also see people parking and scooting/cycling from suburbs close to the city.

Just proves how many people would be willing to use light rail/metro systems if they were close to their homes.

AndrewJRenko · 20-03-2019 3:57pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

The Enbalmer wrote: »

You should get off your bicycle and tell them that.

Just proves how many people would be willing to use light rail/metro systems if they were close to their homes.

This is a fairly unrealistic expectation though. Safe, dry secure bike locking and lockers for scooters and other devices would be a big help.

The Enbalmer · 20-03-2019 4:13pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This is a fairly unrealistic expectation though.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Safe, dry secure bike locking and lockers for scooters and other devices would be a big help.

And that isn't?

Shai · 20-03-2019 4:30pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

And that isn't?

cost of building light rail / metro stations close to everyone's homes VS cost of providing secure bike and scooter storage

gosh, I sure wonder which of those numbers will be bigger

The Enbalmer · 20-03-2019 5:29pm

Shai wrote: »

cost of building light rail / metro stations close to everyone's homes VS cost of providing secure bike and scooter storage

gosh, I sure wonder which of those numbers will be bigger

Nobody wants to go to work on a kid's scooter...rail and metros have been transporting people for over 100 years..its a transportation system that works and one that people will use for years to come.

Meanwhile you can lock your bicycle to a railings like you've always done..i can't see Transdev building little houses for scooters..maybe you could buy a Wendy house and use that?

LeChienMefiant · 20-03-2019 5:33pm

Shai wrote: »

cost of building light rail / metro stations close to everyone's homes VS cost of providing secure bike and scooter storage

gosh, I sure wonder which of those numbers will be bigger

Can't we have both? It's ridiculous to expect everyone to cycle, scoot or walk everywhere. Mixed mode is however realistic and bike sharing makes this really easy in urban centres. At the other end in the suburbs safe secure parking is needed.

AndrewJRenko · 20-03-2019 5:40pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Shai wrote: »

cost of building light rail / metro stations close to everyone's homes VS cost of providing secure bike and scooter storage

gosh, I sure wonder which of those numbers will be bigger

Nobody wants to go to work on a kid's scooter...rail and metros have been transporting people for over 100 years..its a transportation system that works and one that people will use for years to come.

Meanwhile you can lock your bicycle to a railings like you've always done..i can't see Transdev building little houses for scooters..maybe you could buy a Wendy house and use that?

You should hang around Grand Canal Dock some morning and count the number of people using scooters.

Bikes locked to railings cause problems for people with sight loss and narrow the path space available. They also have a nasty habit of not being attached to railings when you get back.

It's always funny to see those who expect to be provided with space to drive around with four empty seats rail against the possibility of any facilities being provided for other modes.

Shai · 20-03-2019 6:14pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Meanwhile you can lock your bicycle to a railings like you've always done..i can't see Transdev building little houses for scooters..maybe you could buy a Wendy house and use that?

I have no idea what you're on about with the "little houses" comment. I was more thinking along the lines of https://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/parking-delft.jpg. And people taking the train don't tend to lock their bikes next to the station. They tend to get vandalized and/or stolen.

Shai · 20-03-2019 6:17pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Can't we have both? It's ridiculous to expect everyone to cycle, scoot or walk everywhere. Mixed mode is however realistic and bike sharing makes this really easy in urban centres. At the other end in the suburbs safe secure parking is needed.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have light rail and metro stations. I'm merely pointing out that having them close to everyone is not possible, and that providing bike friendly parking will allow people who live in the vicinity of such stations to get to them by bike rather than by car.

The Enbalmer · 20-03-2019 6:22pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You should hang around Grand Canal Dock some morning and count the number of people using scooters.

Bikes locked to railings cause problems for people with sight loss and narrow the path space available. They also have a nasty habit of not being attached to railings when you get back.

It's always funny to see those who expect to be provided with space to drive around with four empty seats rail against the possibility of any facilities being provided for other modes.

.

.Why dont all you scooter people pool your dole money and build your own houses for your scooters? That would be proper "green" thinking AND you won't be annoying the taxpayer looking for more and more outlandish concessions.

I'm happy to travel to and from work with my 4 empty seats..I dont bother anybody else and i pay my taxes and tolls.

You're the one with a problem with the way i get myself around..i'm not the one saying you should all throw out your your Frozen scooters and buy a 4-door sedan but i dont see why i should be further (as a taxpayer) funding idiots who go round on scooters and bicycles..especially as cyclists seem to detest people who drive cars..

It's a bit rich cyclists feigning concern for blind people and the taking up of footpath space when they have little regard for anybody else who uses the road.

And btw it's illegal to drive a scooter on a public road..whether it's got glitter and bells or not.

amcalester · 20-03-2019 6:29pm

Shai wrote: »

I have no idea what you're on about with the "little houses" comment. I was more thinking along the lines of https://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/parking-delft.jpg. And people taking the train don't tend to lock their bikes next to the station. They tend to get vandalized and/or stolen.

You could probably fit 6 vehicles there, that’s an awful waste of potential car parking space that could be provided to road tax payers.

magicbastarder · 20-03-2019 6:30pm

amcalester wrote: »

You could probably fit 6 vehicles there, that’s an awful waste of potential car parking space that could be provided to road tax payers.

jobless and homeless people need space to store their vehicles too!

Shai · 20-03-2019 6:45pm

amcalester wrote: »

You could probably fit 6 vehicles there, that’s an awful waste of potential car parking space that could be provided to road tax payers.

I think it's closer to 12 even. The sad part is that I know you made your comment in jest, but some people here will actually take it at face value.

LeChienMefiant · 20-03-2019 6:49pm

Shai wrote: »

I'm not saying we shouldn't have light rail and metro stations. I'm merely pointing out that having them close to everyone is not possible, and that providing bike friendly parking will allow people who live in the vicinity of such stations to get to them by bike rather than by car.

I misunderstood.

The Enbalmer · 20-03-2019 6:54pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

jobless and homeless people need space to store their vehicles too!

Hell they can sleep there while they're at it.

AndrewJRenko · 20-03-2019 9:47pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

.Why dont all you scooter people pool your dole money and build your own houses for your scooters? That would be proper "green" thinking AND you won't be annoying the taxpayer looking for more and more outlandish concessions.

I'm happy to travel to and from work with my 4 empty seats..I dont bother anybody else and i pay my taxes and tolls.

You're the one with a problem with the way i get myself around..i'm not the one saying you should all throw out your your Frozen scooters and buy a 4-door sedan but i dont see why i should be further (as a taxpayer) funding idiots who go round on scooters and bicycles..especially as cyclists seem to detest people who drive cars..

It's a bit rich cyclists feigning concern for blind people and the taking up of footpath space when they have little regard for anybody else who uses the road.

And btw it's illegal to drive a scooter on a public road..whether it's got glitter and bells or not.

Why the dripping condescension, loaded with heavy suggestions that scooters are a) childish and b) (and presumably much much worse in your mind) feminine?

As it happens, I'm not 'scooter people'. I'd probably fall off one if I tried. This may be a bit of a head-wreck for you, but some people are capable of seeing the benefits in modes of transport other than the one they use themselves. Judging by what I see around me along the canal and around Grand Canal Dock, they work well for some people. Again, this may be a further head wreck for you, but the more people that use scooters, the less people that use cars - so it would be actually in your benefit to encourage and support people to use other modes of transport.

Your driving your petrol/diesel car absolutely does bother anyone else. You are part of the club that kills 2 or 3 people each week and maims many more. The emissions from your engine are contributing to 30 premature deaths each week due to poor air quality. The fines resulting from your pollution are draining our public coffers. It your taxes came anywhere near paying for the full costs of the damage done by your driving, that would be a small miracle.

I'm interested to know how you concluded that cyclists 'don't respect other road users'? Did you consider the respective death toll caused by motorists (>3,500 over the last 15 years) compared to cyclists (zero over the last 15 years) when you came to this conclusion?

And btw, driving over the speed limit is illegal, but that doesn't seem to bother the 60%-82% of drivers that do this. So if you are actually concerned about illegality, maybe you'd like to work with your fellow drivers to get them to slow down before you come lecturing 'scooter people'?

AndrewJRenko · 20-03-2019 10:25pm

SeanW wrote: »

All your video showed was that it takes you a few minutes on your bicycle, on your particular route. More power to you as far as I'm concerned, but your experience is not broadly representative.

So I timed a bus today - < 4 minutes from Dame St to O'Connell Bridge - a long way from 30 minutes;

https://streamable.com/pel4i

The Enbalmer · 20-03-2019 10:35pm

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Your driving your petrol/diesel car absolutely does bother anyone else. You are part of the club that kills 2 or 3 people each week and maims many more. The emissions from your engine are contributing to 30 premature deaths each week due to poor air quality. The fines resulting from your pollution are draining our public coffers. It your taxes came anywhere near paying for the full costs of the damage done by your driving, that would be a small miracle.

I've seen you on the RSA pages on FB almost word for word what you've written too.

You consistently get your ass handed to you on FB so I won't further humiliate you here.

You can't afford a car,I get it.

I cycle myself but I drive to work because I can.

Jealousy is a terrible affliction and making up facts and figures will not change that.

AndrewJRenko · 20-03-2019 11:07pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I've seen you on the RSA pages on FB almost word for word what you've written too.

You consistently get your ass handed to you on FB so I won't further humiliate you here.

You can't afford a car,I get it.

I cycle myself but I drive to work because I can.

Jealousy is a terrible affliction and making up facts and figures will not change that.

Hand away, please do. Let me know which facts and figures you think are 'made up' and I'll be happy to provide the source details.

This might wreck your head a little bit more, but I do actually have a car. And I do actually drive occasionally.

As I explained above, some people are able to see beyond their own narrow experience and understand the realities of the world outside.

upinsmoke · 20-03-2019 11:15pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Hand away, please do. Let me know which facts and figures you think are 'made up' and I'll be happy to provide the source details.

This might wreck your head a little bit more, but I do actually have a car. And I do actually drive occasionally.

As I explained above, some people are able to see beyond their own narrow experience and understand the realities of the world outside.

Its not the Dubs that are causing the traffic congestion, it's the people driving from Kilkenny, Carlow, Laois, Kildare, Wicklow,Galway,Louth, Waterfordetc. because the public transport is brutal and have no other option but to drive and that decent accomadation is now not affordable or overpriced in Dublin. Most people in Dublin can't drive to work

amcalester · 20-03-2019 11:23pm

upinsmoke wrote: »

Its not the Dubs that are causing the traffic congestion, it's the people driving from Kilkenny, Carlow, Laois, Kildare, Wicklow,Galway,Louth, Waterfordetc. because the public transport is brutal and have no other option but to drive and that decent accomadation is now not affordable or overpriced in Dublin. Most people in Dublin can't drive to work

According to the CSO 44.6% of people in Dublin City and suburbs commute by car.

AndrewJRenko · 20-03-2019 11:30pm

upinsmoke wrote: »

Its not the Dubs that are causing the traffic congestion, it's the people driving from Kilkenny, Carlow, Laois, Kildare, Wicklow,Galway,Louth, Waterfordetc. because the public transport is brutal and have no other option but to drive and that decent accomadation is now not affordable or overpriced in Dublin. Most people in Dublin can't drive to work

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

magicbastarder · 20-03-2019 11:34pm

the working population of dublin city and suburbs is 512k. 382k of that are people who live in dublin city and suburbs, 130k from outside.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6www/

going by amacalester's figure of 44.6% commuting by car, that would be 228,000 dubs commuting within dublin.

these figures do not include the 40k who commute out of dublin to work.

The Enbalmer · 20-03-2019 11:55pm

These people tend not to be cyclists however.

Narrow-minded,tetchy and aggressive in the main.

Especially the idiots in full leotard and dark glasses on a rainy day..acting like they're in the tour de france.
They won't wear hi-viz because they think it would spoil their "look" but have a heap of facile counter arguments to counter any criticism of their behaviour.

AndrewJRenko · 21-03-2019 12:04am

The Enbalmer wrote: »

These people tend not to be cyclists however.

Narrow-minded,tetchy and aggressive in the main.

Though not quite matching the aggression of killing 2 or 3 people each week, right?

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Especially the idiots in full leotard and dark glasses on a rainy day..acting like they're in the tour de france.
They won't wear hi-viz because they think it would spoil their "look" but have a heap of facile counter arguments to counter any criticism of their behaviour.

What is your obsession with lycra all about? Are the people who wear lycra to a run or a football match or to Lidl for shopping all idiots also? Is it safe to spend spend so much time studying the clothing of other people when you're supposed to be watching the road?

And please don't forget to clarify which of those figures you think are 'made up'.

SeanW · 21-03-2019 2:19am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

So ... the lack of decent, affordable accommodate in Dublin, and the crap, slow, overcrowded or just plain non-existent public transport are not problems?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This might wreck your head a little bit more, but I do actually have a car. And I do actually drive occasionally.

And yet, you write about motorists like they are the emissaries of Satan ...

As I explained above, some people are able to see beyond their own narrow experience and understand the realities of the world outside.

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So I timed a bus today - < 4 minutes from Dame St to O'Connell Bridge - a long way from 30 minutes;

https://streamable.com/pel4i

Awesome - but all it showed is that a bus, in your video a 140, at some time of the day, can do College Green to the quays in 4 minutes. Maybe that particular movement is easier or maybe that particular time there was less traffic, or maybe the whole thing has just gotten WAAAAAAY better in the last 12 months though I highly doubt that.

What would be most interesting is if you took that head-cam onto a 25 bus leaving Merrion Sq. at about 5:45PM-6PM heading for Lucan, and see how long that takes. When I had to do that last year, it took minimum 2 hours of which half an hour of that was trying to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St. and beyond. Unless things have improved radically in the last 12 months, you'd need a big memory card for that.

Now, it could be that the beginning of last year was unusually bad, but my memories of using buses to get in and out of Dublin City Centre especially across the Liffey was that it was a nightmare. And that motorist could not be blamed for much of it.

AndrewJRenko · 21-03-2019 7:44am

SeanW wrote: »

So ... the lack of decent, affordable accommodate in Dublin, and the crap, slow, overcrowded or just plain non-existent public transport are not problems?

And yet, you write about motorists like they are the emissaries of Satan ...

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

Awesome - but all it showed is that a bus, in your video a 140, at some time of the day

It was rush hour, around 8.30am.

SeanW wrote: »

What would be most interesting is if you took that head-cam onto a 25 bus leaving Merrion Sq. at about 5:45PM-6PM heading for Lucan, and see how long that takes. When I had to do that last year, it took minimum 2 hours of which half an hour of that was trying to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St. and beyond. Unless things have improved radically in the last 12 months, you'd need a big memory card for that.

If you want me to do your research for you, then we'll need to agree an hourly rate in advance.

AndrewJRenko · 21-03-2019 7:46am

SeanW wrote: »

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

Remind me, which mode of transport have we been debating College Green speeds for?

Pinch Flat · 21-03-2019 7:52am

SeanW wrote: »

So ... the lack of decent, affordable accommodate in Dublin, and the crap, slow, overcrowded or just plain non-existent public transport are not problems?

And yet, you write about motorists like they are the emissaries of Satan ...

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

Awesome - but all it showed is that a bus, in your video a 140, at some time of the day, can do College Green to the quays in 4 minutes. Maybe that particular movement is easier or maybe that particular time there was less traffic, or maybe the whole thing has just gotten WAAAAAAY better in the last 12 months though I highly doubt that.

What would be most interesting is if you took that head-cam onto a 25 bus leaving Merrion Sq. at about 5:45PM-6PM heading for Lucan, and see how long that takes. When I had to do that last year, it took minimum 2 hours of which half an hour of that was trying to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St. and beyond. Unless things have improved radically in the last 12 months, you'd need a big memory card for that.

Now, it could be that the beginning of last year was unusually bad, but my memories of using buses to get in and out of Dublin City Centre especially across the Liffey was that it was a nightmare. And that motorist could not be blamed for much of it.

What do you think is the main factor impacting on an inefficient bus system in Dublin? I’m guessing people travelling to the city in 20% full vehicles has a lot to do with it. And where bus lanes are provided, motorists still insist on using them.

That’s the circular argument about bus transport in Dublin. People who insist on driving to the city centre say they won’t use buses because they’re slow. Yet they’re part of the problem contributing to this. There’s an attitude that I can do it my car, but when 100,000 other people do it it kind of screws it up for everyone.

The Enbalmer · 21-03-2019 8:52am

Pinch Flat wrote:

Thatâ€™s the circular argument about bus transport in Dublin. People who insist on driving to the city centre say they wonâ€™t use buses because theyâ€™re slow. Yet theyâ€™re part of the problem contributing to this. Thereâ€™s an attitude that I can do it my car, but when 100,000 other people do it it kind of screws it up for everyone.

That's what cars are for.
I bought my car with money I worked for,I'll drive it to town if I want.

Seems to me cyclists are the problem if your mindset is anything to go by.

Cyclists should have compulsory insurance, should be made to sit a proficiency test and display registration numbers just like car drivers so when a cyclist causes an accident or damages a vehicle they can't just pedal away from the scene without sanction.

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

If you people want to be treated as proper road users you should be penalized for breaking the rules..just like everyone else.

The Enbalmer · 21-03-2019 8:54am

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Though not quite matching the aggression of killing 2 or 3 people each week, right?

How many of those people were cyclists breaking lights?
I note on the cycling forum it is forbidden to blame cyclists for any accidents they may be involved in...that summarises the mindset of bicycle riders very nicely.

LeinsterDub · 21-03-2019 9:03am

The Enbalmer wrote: »

That's what cars are for.
I bought my car with money I worked for,I'll drive it to town if I want.

Seems to me cyclists are the problem if your mindset is anything to go by.

Cyclists should have compulsory insurance, should be made to sit a proficiency test and display registration numbers just like car drivers so when a cyclist causes an accident or damages a vehicle they can't just pedal away from the scene without sanction.

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

If you people want to be treated as proper road users you should be penalized for breaking the rules..just like everyone else.

Cars have insurance, tax and registration..... Ever hear about a hit and run? Surely you mean on the spot fines for any road users breaking the law? How many accidents per annum are caused by cyclist and what was the outcome?

Pinch Flat · 21-03-2019 9:14am

The Enbalmer wrote: »

That's what cars are for.
I bought my car with money I worked for,I'll drive it to town if I want.

Seems to me cyclists are the problem if your mindset is anything to go by.

Cyclists should have compulsory insurance, should be made to sit a proficiency test and display registration numbers just like car drivers so when a cyclist causes an accident or damages a vehicle they can't just pedal away from the scene without sanction.

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

If you people want to be treated as proper road users you should be penalized for breaking the rules..just like everyone else.

Ah the oul cycling rant. Where do you start? And what do they have to do with congestion in Dublin? A cyclist is one less car, making more space for you to enjoy your traffic jam in your car you’ve worked hard for.

Assume you’ve no issues paying a 8% levy for the 150,000 uninsured motorists you share the road with? And what will insurance for cyclists do for traffic congestion? Complete straw mans.

You’re right - you worked hard for your car and you’re justifying its use. It’s just when 100,000 people in 20% full cars have the same idea is where the major congestion problem arises.”I’m stuck in this jam I’ve helped create, who can I blame?”.

Shai · 21-03-2019 9:50am

The Enbalmer wrote: »

How many of those people were cyclists breaking lights?
I note on the cycling forum it is forbidden to blame cyclists for any accidents they may be involved in...that summarises the mindset of bicycle riders very nicely.

None. Unless you have any data to show otherwise? Which you don't of course.

Also, nope, it's not forbidden. Making more stuff up again to nail yourself to your own cross?

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

I wasn't aware cyclist couldn't get fines for this? Are you making things up again? I'm pretty sure cyclist would love to see the Garda Traffic Corps become more active in penalising offences.

Shai · 21-03-2019 9:54am

SeanW wrote: »

What would be most interesting is if you took that head-cam onto a 25 bus leaving Merrion Sq. at about 5:45PM-6PM heading for Lucan, and see how long that takes. When I had to do that last year, it took minimum 2 hours of which half an hour of that was trying to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St. and beyond. Unless things have improved radically in the last 12 months, you'd need a big memory card for that.

Now, it could be that the beginning of last year was unusually bad, but my memories of using buses to get in and out of Dublin City Centre especially across the Liffey was that it was a nightmare. And that motorist could not be blamed for much of it.

This is getting pretty pathetic. After claiming that College Green is a total nightmare for public transport and being proving wrong repeatedly, you have now retreated to "This one particular bus route I was on over a year ago had issues sometimes. You should go and investigate if this is still the case." The reality is that Andrew has put more effort in this thread into investigating your claim than you ever have. Either put in some effort to prove your point or just admit you're wrong already.

Dublin ranks 3rd in terms of the amount of time spent in cars due to congestion

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