Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

patmahe · 26-08-2019 8:31am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

1997

The only record I can find is of Eric Broadley. They was a decent enough livery as well. Sospiri deserved another go at an f1 drive

From what I know of that effort, the teams title sponsor (MasterCard) was very keen to start that year, the team had originally planned to start a year later, so everything was very very rushed and they did well to actually have a car completed in time to run at Melbourne. Sadly what they had built hadn't seen much of the inside of a wind tunnel and was I think 11 seconds a lap off pole? And people think Williams have troubles today

Cork Trucker · 26-08-2019 8:49am

patmahe wrote: »

From what I know of that effort, the teams title sponsor (MasterCard) was very keen to start that year, the team had originally planned to start a year later, so everything was very very rushed and they did well to actually have a car completed in time to run at Melbourne. Sadly what they had built hadn't seen much of the inside of a wind tunnel and was I think 11 seconds a lap off pole? And people think Williams have troubles today

Yes i read the same, similar to the way McLaren rushed Honda back in 2015 a year before they wanted to. The Williams of today isn't even that bad as you rightly mention.

Here is a brief video of FP2 of Melbourne 1997 with the Lola's featuring

Also as mentioned here before, it's ironic that a team funded by a credit card company went bust due to financial issues

H3llR4iser · 26-08-2019 11:19am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Yes i read the same, similar to the way McLaren rushed Honda back in 2015 a year before they wanted to. The Williams of today isn't even that bad as you rightly mention.

Here is a brief video of FP2 of Melbourne 1997 with the Lola's featuring

Also as mentioned here before, it's ironic that a team funded by a credit card company went bust due to financial issues

Yeah that's a classic - people who only started following F1 recently (and those with short memories) don't remember that, relatively recently, there would be 7-8 seconds (sometimes 10, as in the clip below) between pole position and last place on the grid. Being 2-2.5 seconds off the pace would put you within the first 5 rows (sometimes as high as 5th or 6th) with a decent shot at a podium...

26-08-2019 11:26am

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah that's a classic - people who only started following F1 recently (and those with short memories) don't remember that, relatively recently, there would be 7-8 seconds (sometimes 10, as in the clip below) between pole position and last place on the grid. Being 2-2.5 seconds off the pace would put you within the first 5 rows (sometimes as high as 5th or 6th) with a decent shot at a podium...

Bit different now though since there are only 10 teams and the regulations offer a lot less leeway. Before the big front wings came in there was usually 2 seconds covering the field despite more engine variants being used than now.

muckwarrior · 26-08-2019 12:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Bit different now though since there are only 10 teams and the regulations offer a lot less leeway. Before the big front wings came in there was usually 2 seconds covering the field despite more engine variants being used than now.

I think it's more that computers are to blame/thank. These days you can get a good idea of how fast a design will be before it's built, so you'll never have a car that completely off the mark. Decades ago they just had to build it and see.

Cork Trucker · 26-08-2019 12:11pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

I think it's more that computers are to blame/thank. These days you can get a good idea of how fast a design will be before it's built, so you'll never have a car that completely off the mark. Decades ago they just had to build it and see.

The current Williams is a bit of an exception

Cork Trucker · 26-08-2019 12:13pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah that's a classic - people who only started following F1 recently (and those with short memories) don't remember that, relatively recently, there would be 7-8 seconds (sometimes 10, as in the clip below) between pole position and last place on the grid. Being 2-2.5 seconds off the pace would put you within the first 5 rows (sometimes as high as 5th or 6th) with a decent shot at a podium...

The Minardi's were typical of being 2-3 seconds off the pace and that put them at the back, hopefully 2021 brings the field closer

pjohnson · 26-08-2019 12:20pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

I think it's more that computers are to blame/thank. These days you can get a good idea of how fast a design will be before it's built, so you'll never have a car that completely off the mark. Decades ago they just had to build it and see.

The completely computer designed Virgin MR01 disagrees. The car had faulty hydraulics, too small a fuel tank and a poorly designed nose. That all had to be adjusted before during the season.

pjohnson · 26-08-2019 12:22pm

Also Lando Norris has his foot in a protective brace. Sirotkin is on standby for McLaren but they do expect Norris will be fine for this weekend.

muckwarrior · 26-08-2019 12:34pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The current Williams is a bit of an exception

It's not though. If anything it proves my point. It's by far the worst on the grid, probably the worst car there's been in years, and yet it can still comfortably qualify within 107%

pjohnson wrote: »

The completely computer designed Virgin MR01 disagrees. The car had faulty hydraulics, too small a fuel tank and a poorly designed nose. That all had to be adjusted before during the season.

Relying 100% on computer/CFD design was a bad idea, but it doesn't disprove the fact that the aid of computer design results in cars that are much closer together than without.

Cork Trucker · 26-08-2019 1:33pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

It's not though. If anything it proves my point. It's by far the worst on the grid, probably the worst car there's been in years, and yet it can still comfortably qualify within 107%

Relying 100% on computer/CFD design was a bad idea, but it doesn't disprove the fact that the aid of computer design results in cars that are much closer together than without.

The fact Kubica can get that car to within 107% with a major disability shows that having a disability alone is no reason to prevent a driver being in F1, Yes he has been terrible in an equally terrible car against a rookie.

Jordan 199 · 26-08-2019 2:17pm

pjohnson wrote: »

The completely computer designed Virgin MR01 disagrees. The car had faulty hydraulics, too small a fuel tank and a poorly designed nose. That all had to be adjusted before during the season.

I remember reading about the fuel tank. They couldn't make the difference between a US gallon (3.78 litres) versus an Imperial gallon (4.5 litres).

patmahe · 26-08-2019 3:47pm

Jordan 199 wrote: »

I remember reading about the fuel tank. They couldn't make the difference between a US gallon (3.78 litres) versus an Imperial gallon (4.5 litres).

Can't be as simple as that surely? Although I do remember when the Forti team were around they ran a smaller fuel tank as they expected to finish each race 1-2 laps down so no point in carrying 65 laps worth of fuel if you are only doing 63 laps. Sadly they were right about their finishing position

H3llR4iser · 26-08-2019 4:04pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

I think it's more that computers are to blame/thank. These days you can get a good idea of how fast a design will be before it's built, so you'll never have a car that completely off the mark. Decades ago they just had to build it and see.

Pretty much this - there were instances in the late 80s and early 90s where the front row (well, usually the two McLarens) qualified 2 seconds clear of P3; 1988s San Marino Grand Prix probably takes the crown for the most ridiculous qualifying results since electronic timing was introduced (excluding Jerez 1997 which still has a whiff of software bug):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_San_Marino_Grand_Prix

Yep, that's 3.3s between poleman Senna and 3rd place Nelson Piquet - with the same engine, no less .

pjohnson wrote: »

The completely computer designed Virgin MR01 disagrees. The car had faulty hydraulics, too small a fuel tank and a poorly designed nose. That all had to be adjusted before during the season.

Well...the computer doesn't design the car, the humans do using computers as tools. You still need A-skilled designers and B-skilled users for the tools. If you don't have those, the poor computer doesn't really stand a chance on its own

AMKC · 26-08-2019 4:45pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Also Lando Norris has his foot in a protective brace. Sirotkin is on standby for McLaren but they do expect Norris will be fine for this weekend.

What happened to Lando's foot? I have to say he is one of my favorite drivers. He is down to earth, has no problem talking to the media and is a very good driver too.

skipper_G · 26-08-2019 4:57pm

AMKC wrote: »

What happened to Lando's foot? I have to say he is one of my favorite drivers. He is down to earth, has no problem talking to the media and is a very good driver too.

Mild inflammation of a tendon in his foot. Picked it up while during training during the summer break.

I'm a big fan as well, for all the reasons you mentioned. His twitter feed is good craic as well

Charlie-Bravo · 27-08-2019 3:29pm

This has just about confirmed things! Does it look photoshopped?

https://www.autohebdo.fr/#

Cork Trucker · 27-08-2019 3:31pm

astrofluff wrote: »

This has just about confirmed things! Does it look photoshopped?

https://www.autohebdo.fr/#

Looks like Ricciardo's pose with Ocon's head attached to it

GarIT · 27-08-2019 3:33pm

skipper_G wrote: »

Mild inflammation of a tendon in his foot. Picked it up while during training during the summer break.

I'm a big fan as well, for all the reasons you mentioned. His twitter feed is good craic as well

Sirotkin is on standby? Is that in case Alonso's flight is delayed? All I have is hope.

GarIT · 27-08-2019 3:34pm

astrofluff wrote: »

This has just about confirmed things! Does it look photoshopped?

https://www.autohebdo.fr/#

It's Hulk with the head changed. Hulk also quoted the magazine saying "Thursday will be interesting" referencing the press conference.

Cork Trucker · 27-08-2019 3:35pm

GarIT wrote: »

It's Hulk with the head changed. Hulk also quoted the magazine saying "Thursday will be interesting" referencing the press conference.

If Hulk is dropped then expect an announcement from Haas, Renault can't dispense with Nico until they find him a seat elsewhere first due to his contract.

pjohnson · 27-08-2019 4:17pm

GarIT wrote: »

Sirotkin is on standby? Is that in case Alonso's flight is delayed? All I have is hope.

Alonso is no longer working for McLaren F1 Team (think he might still be attached to the Indy McLaren project).

Shortly after this announcement was made McLaren announced they had reached an agreement with Renault to use Sirotkin as their reserve for the rest of the season (Sirotkin was already Renault's reserve so he is now the official reserve for both teams).

donspeekinglesh · 29-08-2019 9:02am

https://racer.com/2019/08/28/ericsson-gets-alfa-romeo-spa-call-up-daly-to-race-for-spm-at-portland/?utm_source=smg&utm_medium=wasabi&utm_content=home-hero

Conor Daly will replace Marcus Ericsson in the No.7 Honda for the Arrow SPM team in this weekend’s IndyCar Grand Prix of Portland as RACER.com has learned the Swede will be at Spa with Alfa Romeo for the Belgian Grand Prix.

Charlie-Bravo · 29-08-2019 9:15am

Huh? Is Joevinassi getting the chop?

pjohnson · 29-08-2019 9:39am

astrofluff wrote: »

Huh? Is Joevinassi getting the chop?

Ericsson is their reserve driver so they appear to want him in paddock Alfa have said on Instagram that Kimi and Antonio are back to race at Spa.

Infoanon · 29-08-2019 9:56am

Question mark over Kim - no details - also an indication (autosport) that it's Friday only

29-08-2019 11:43am

22 race calendar: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1166983828675747845/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1166983828675747845&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fsport%2Fformula1%2F49507583

Canadian GP clashing with Le Mans.

H3llR4iser · 29-08-2019 12:09pm

Bottas to drive for Mercedes in 2020. No surprise there, it was the only reasonable option they had.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-08-2019 12:23pm

Any word on Ocon and hulk?

flazio · 29-08-2019 1:16pm

It's all going on today.
Hulkenberg and Magnussen together in a team? Hope Steiner has good heart medication.

Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

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