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Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

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    #92
    Fuascailteoir
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    WesternZulu wrote: »
    Lived in Britain and it does feel like a foreign country which isn't surprising.

    However, any time I've been to Northern Ireland I was surprised about how different it felt to here.

    The towns and cities look closed to what you'd find in Britain. Even countryside looks different from less one off houses to far larger fields because of the typically bigger farms. The whole place looked and felt a lot different that what I expected. It just reinforces that there is a very particular Irish vernacular that isn't overtly obvious until you visit/live in the UK.

    Very little difference between Cavan and fermanagh. Belfast does have a very different feel but a lot of towns west of the bann are not much different


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    #93
    AlphabetCards
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭AlphabetCards


    Hyperbollix wrote: »
    A foreign land? Oh yes. I always marvel at University Challenge. You get these insanely well read 20 year olds attending the Oxbridge colleges who can answer questions on the most obscure / niche subject matter with utter confidence and mostly arrogance.... When it comes to geography, they will spit out answers to questions about the regions of Mongolia like they've lived there themselves and have direct experience.

    But give them a question on their nearest neighbouring island and they will all flounder. It's actually comical to watch Paxman ask them something about Ireland which any Junior cert student would laugh at and see a whole team of geniuses scrabbling around to the point of almost saying things like "GUINNESS?.............er...............LEPRECHAUNS?"

    If the cream of the British education system is THIS clueless about Ireland, it's really no wonder we are where we are.

    I've usually been quite impressed with the contestants knowledge of Ireland, I've seen some rather obscure questions answered with ease. Your post comes across as a little jealous of these contestants, to be honest.


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    #94
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,807 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    England is a foreign country and feels like a foreign country...

    People are just so much more reserved for the most part, up north and I’ve spent time in Manchester and Newcastle where their personalities are more in line slightly with ours but the Londoners are so different, so reserved.


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    #95
    AlphabetCards
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭AlphabetCards


    dd973 wrote: »
    You can't tar the whole of England with the same brush, living in Liverpool or Manchester is quite similar to living in Dublin in terms of the size of the city, proximity to Ireland and friendly people, many of whom are of Irish lineage, either recently or further removed, you probably see more Irish faces in Liverpool than O'Connell St these days.

    The Cornish don't consider themselves English but a Celtic nation with it's own culture.

    Manchester and Liverpool represent nothing of the rest of England. Nothing. They are aberations in so many ways. The cities of England are the same as most cities in the western world - bleak, homogeneous, gentified and devoid of soul. The soul of England is in the villages and towns.


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    #96
    AlphabetCards
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭AlphabetCards


    Strumms wrote: »
    England is a foreign country and feels like a foreign country...

    People are just so much more reserved for the most part, up north and I’ve spent time in Manchester and Newcastle where their personalities are more in line slightly with ours but the Londoners are so different, so reserved.

    Come south of the M4, stay away from London and you'll see a great side of this country.


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    #97
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    My Aunt said she was in England pushing her niece in a pram, she said no one came up to her to talk to her or comment on the niece etc, she said that this was very different to Ireland. my Aunt lives in Ireland but her daughter lives in England.

    Your aunt is right. I don’t know what graces7 is talking about, but I did find that the English kept to themselves.


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    #98
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    AlphabetCards wrote: »
    Manchester and Liverpool represent nothing of the rest of England. Nothing. They are aberations in so many ways. The cities of England are the same as most cities in the western world - bleak, homogeneous, gentified and devoid of soul. The soul of England is in the villages and towns.

    Balderdash and bunkum! You have no idea. And many villages and towns now are deserted.

    Just takes a little longer to get to know a city in England. But it is worth it. It really is.


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    #99
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Yes , completely different. Still felt more familiar than China though. I would say the young folks are generally good fun. It's a lot cleaner than Ireland, even rural areas in Ireland are full of litter. They know how to make decent television, I think it's probably the best country in the world as far as entertainment tv programming is concerned (factual programmes less so). There's a big difference between North and South. The North is more open to outsiders and the South can be quite hostile to other European people, but strangely quite accepting of people of different races (from their colonies), so long as they remain passive and humble and all that. There's a real chip on the shoulder for other developed countries that's for sure.

    I would say the biggest cultural gap is, for lack of a better word, 'Absolutism'. In England everything is either right or wrong, good or bad, there are no caveats or mitigating circumstances. This allows them to form rather simplistic understanding of history. For them it's all 'good guys' (usually them) and bad guys (everyone else). The simple yes/no view on things means stereotypes are universal truth to them. Every person from X is X and that's that. This attitude is also applied to the media and justice system (trial by media is the de-facto system), there is no belief in remorse, atonement or reform. I guess this is something got to do with cultural protestantism, pre-destination and all that.

    I found it overall negative in comparison to Ireland, some observations:
    -Bars/night clubs are crap bar a few exceptions (almost all in London).
    -Outside London, and maybe Manchester there is feck all activity on the streets after dark. A Saturday night in Athlone would see more people
    buzzing around than Birmingham (second largest city). There's a subtle assumption that if you're out late you're up to no good.
    -Mid range restaurants are crap, huge emphasis on 'value' and volume of portions but really nothing that you couldn't cook yourself, or buy off
    the shelf. Fast food is dominated by multi national chains, very few unique joints with character.
    -Service at bars and restaurants is dire. Barmen will pour one pint at a time and then take payment and move on to next customer, no panic at
    all. They'll even wipe down counters and empty dishwashers while there's many customers waiting for service. I found this to be the same in
    the NI.
    -There's REAL poverty. When you get outside of London and the nicer towns/small cities in the south you'll find people really
    unable to access food/shelter. Completely different to 'poverty' in Ireland, which basically means the government puts you into a hotel. In
    Birmingham for example you'd often hear of people stepping in front of cars in the hope of getting some compensation money. Although the
    way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if FFG have people doing that in the near future here also.
    -Classism is a religion, no question about it. If you have a posh accent or went to a particular school you can more less do as you please, the
    working class believe every single word they say. Ironically the working class will even vote for these people who make their lives a misery.
    -Access to education is years behind Ireland. Adult illiteracy is a real thing, it exists in vast quantities (I would say it's under reported in official
    figures that you find on wiki). It's not unusual to see someone struggling to work out what a sign says, mouthing the words as they read it.
    This feeds into the ignorance of the outside world, which is also endemic.
    -Knowledge of history is strictly limited to the second world war, and is patchy at that. And they genuinely believe that they 'won' that single
    handedly.

    I agree with this, no bending of the rules to the suit the situation. Very much by the book all the time. Very frustrating.


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    #100
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    WesternZulu wrote: »
    Lived in Britain and it does feel like a foreign country which isn't surprising.

    However, any time I've been to Northern Ireland I was surprised about how different it felt to here.

    The towns and cities look closed to what you'd find in Britain. Even countryside looks different from less one off houses to far larger fields because of the typically bigger farms. The whole place looked and felt a lot different that what I expected. It just reinforces that there is a very particular Irish vernacular that isn't overtly obvious until you visit/live in the UK.

    Yes, one thing I notice about Donegal is the houses. They're built all over the place, on the top of hills, in the middle of the field - everywhere. It looks a bit odd and disorganised.

    Planning permission here is OVERLY strict, you have to build your house in the exact place they tell you. It even has to follow a specific design, you can't have your own design.


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    #101
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Of course we English are different; we are English not Irish. Nothing will ever change that. Nor should it.

    You've expressed that view point several times now, we get it.


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    #102
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Fuascailteoir wrote: »
    Very little difference between Cavan and fermanagh. Belfast does have a very different feel but a lot of towns west of the bann are not much different

    I live 'west of the bann' and feel that I wouldn't have much in common with someone in Cavan or Fermanagh. What you really mean is Tyrone or Fermangh, rather than west of the bann.

    West of the Bann isn't a realistic term in 2021, it generalises the whole 'west' of Northern Ireland as one block. In reality there are places 'west of the bann' that have nothing in common with one another.


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    #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Your aunt is right. I don’t know what graces7 is talking about, but I did find that the English kept to themselves.

    You really need to travel around England more, whatever little part you were in definitely doesn't represent the English that I know


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    #104
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,807 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    AlphabetCards wrote: »
    Come south of the M4, stay away from London and you'll see a great side of this country.

    I worked with a girl from Cornwall, she was great craic and had planned heading that way for a visit pre covid.. still on my ‘to do’ list.


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    #105
    AlphabetCards
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭AlphabetCards


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Balderdash and bunkum! You have no idea. And many villages and towns now are deserted.

    Just takes a little longer to get to know a city in England. But it is worth it. It really is.

    Eh, I live here? I've lived in garrison towns, big cities, small cities, villages, and now I've settled in Somerset. The cities are horrible (aside from Bath) but the villages are amazing. Name a village or town that is deserted? There has been a mass exodus to the villages for the past 5 years, going by house prices.


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    #106
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    [QUOTE=Nqp15hhu;116866487

    ???


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    #107
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You really need to travel around England more, whatever little part you were in definitely doesn't represent the English that I know

    Perhaps you need to travel around England more, instead of dismissing my real life experience.


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    #108
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Strumms wrote: »
    I worked with a girl from Cornwall, she was great craic and had planned heading that way for a visit pre covid.. still on my ‘to do’ list.

    The SW is more the west culturally. The southern culture covers mostly the SE and East Anglia.


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    #109
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Strumms wrote: »
    England is a foreign country and feels like a foreign country...

    People are just so much more reserved for the most part, up north and I’ve spent time in Manchester and Newcastle where their personalities are more in line slightly with ours but the Londoners are so different, so reserved.

    Just takes longer to get to know city folk. And of course English folk are different from Irish! That is totally natural and normal. And the bigger the city the longer it takes. Trust takes time.


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    #110
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    AlphabetCards wrote: »
    Eh, I live here? I've lived in garrison towns, big cities, small cities, villages, and now I've settled in Somerset. The cities are horrible (aside from Bath) but the villages are amazing. Name a village or town that is deserted? There has been a mass exodus to the villages for the past 5 years, going by house prices.

    Try North Yorkshire... No city is horrible; just many prefer villages and that is fine too. Many who love cities cannot abide villages...


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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Celchick wrote: »
    Can be very different in some ways indeed for somewhere so close. Way of life pretty much the same overall, but intricacies therein can be nothing alike.

    Food is a big one in my opinion. A good quality but affordable restaurant/cafe is so much easier to find here.
    65535 wrote: »
    Biggest problem is that they look down their noses to anything or anyone that is not English.
    Once you can get over that hurdle you will be fine.
    It is part of being 'English'
    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    i was really surprised by that as well.

    I was expecting the cities to be basically like Irish ones just a little nicer & maybe a little cleaner, to my horror they were a little less nicer, especially Manchester, red bricked ruins everywhere.

    I was a little surprised at how drunk so many people got before football games at 3mp on a Saturday, especially street drinking.

    I am curious to know where in Ireland I find this wonderful place where the people don't look down on others, the streets are full of beautifully maintained architecture and there is an abundance of good value high quality food.

    15 years living here and i have yet to find it.


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    #112
    JKerova1
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭JKerova1


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Americans believe they won the second world war


    I suppose it's probably not that different from the legions of Irish people who believe that we 'won' the War of Independence against the Tans. Every nation has its narrative.


    My father was English but lived in Ireland for the last 40 years of his life. I got the impression that he was often frustrated at Irish peoples constant need to put themselves down at every opportunity. For example, contrary to popular belief he found the Irish civil service to be superior to the UK's, much more efficient and better to deal with. But god forbid you mention that to any Irish person.


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    #113
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Two points I would make this:

    When I was younger I spent 18 months backpacking around the world, loads of different countries. You would meet two groups of people. Firstly, the locals. Secondly, the international travellers of many many different nationalities that would rock up to the youth hostel.

    Taking the second group, after 3 or 4 months I found myself gravitating almost automatically to the English/ Scottish/ Welsh. That is not to say they are the same as the Irish; but that the Irish have far more in common with the British than with any other nationality. By far far far. You hear this stuff about, the italians and the Irish share are very alike, or the Irish and the Poles or the Irish and the Portuguese or whatever. Bull. We have far more in common with the Brits than anyone else, by a long long way.

    Second, yes we are different culturally to some extent. However to give some context, the cultural gap between California and Texas is far far wider than the cultural gap between London and Dublin.


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    #114
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    JKerova1 wrote: »
    I suppose it's probably not that different from the legions of Irish people who believe that we 'won' the War of Independence against the Tans. Every nation has its narrative.


    My father was English but lived in Ireland for the last 40 years of his life. I got the impression that he was often frustrated at Irish peoples constant need to put themselves down at every opportunity. For example, contrary to popular belief he found the Irish civil service to be superior to the UK's, much more efficient and better to deal with. But god forbid you mention that to any Irish person.

    But thats not the Irish putting themselves down.

    When these people complain about Ireland, they are always complaining about someone else......not themselves.


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    #115
    WesternZulu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    JKerova1 wrote: »

    My father was English but lived in Ireland for the last 40 years of his life. I got the impression that he was often frustrated at Irish peoples constant need to put themselves down at every opportunity. For example, contrary to popular belief he found the Irish civil service to be superior to the UK's, much more efficient and better to deal with. But god forbid you mention that to any Irish person.

    Absolutely, you see it all the time in Ireland where many people think that anything Irish is automatically inferior...i.e. we have the most corrupt government in the world, the country is a dump, the language is worthless, the HSE is like something you'd find in a 3rd world country, 'bogball'/'stick fighting'.

    For better or worse the English are far more confident as a nation in themselves.


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    #116
    Nqp15hhu
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    I think the English confidence though verges on arrogance at times. There’s nothing wrong with being humble, it’s actually the best approach.


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    #117
    Figel Narage
    Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭Figel Narage


    As a person who was born and lived in the UK for a few years even at a young age I could feel the differences between both countries. Roads, houses and buildings are a bit different in my experience. People in the south (mainly greater London) from my experience are a bit more reserved and dry, don't like being approached as they probably assume nothing good will come from the interaction while in Ireland a lot of people have no problem being approached on the street. I've noticed people seem to care less or more focused on themselves out in public while in Ireland people seem to be very aware of who's around them like people will glance at each other in the street while in England I've noticed it doesn't happen as much. I've noticed the poverty that some posters have mentioned whereby some impoverished areas are really run down which you wouldn't find to the same level over here.


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    #118
    Government buildings
    Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭Government buildings


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    They are definitely unfriendly from the standpoint of reaching out or communicating with strangers. I found my course mates kept to themselves and didn’t mix outside their own groups, it was very isolating.

    I found this when I went to study in college in Dublin from rural Ireland.


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    #119
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Two points I would make this:

    When I was younger I spent 18 months backpacking around the world, loads of different countries. You would meet two groups of people. Firstly, the locals. Secondly, the international travellers of many many different nationalities that would rock up to the youth hostel.

    Taking the second group, after 3 or 4 months I found myself gravitating almost automatically to the English/ Scottish/ Welsh. That is not to say they are the same as the Irish; but that the Irish have far more in common with the British than with any other nationality. By far far far. You hear this stuff about, the italians and the Irish share are very alike, or the Irish and the Poles or the Irish and the Portuguese or whatever. Bull. We have far more in common with the Brits than anyone else, by a long long way.

    Second, yes we are different culturally to some extent. However to give some context, the cultural gap between California and Texas is far far wider than the cultural gap between London and Dublin.

    Ever been to Spain? or know many Spanish people?
    A fundamentally socially liberal people with some distant Catholic baggage, most are not more than two generations away from the countryside and abject poverty. They also fundamentally believe their country to be the most corrupt/inefficient etc. and they're more correct in that belief than Irish people are. Very same attitudes to work and family as you see in Ireland.

    I would say more similar to Irish folks than English (Scotland is a different).


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    #120
    Government buildings
    Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭Government buildings


    Aegir wrote: »
    I am curious to know where in Ireland I find this wonderful place where the people don't look down on others, the streets are full of beautifully maintained architecture and there is an abundance of good value high quality food.

    15 years living here and i have yet to find it.

    I remember going into a town in Roscommon a few years ago around midday and asking a girl passing on the street where would be a nice place to eat.

    She said to me there were three places serving food and she wouldn't go near any of them!


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    #121
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    Yyhhuuu wrote: »
    I'd be interested to know of examples of what you dislike about Essex, could you elaborate?

    There's not a huge amount that I'd actually dislike, if I did I'd be gone tbh but since you asked.

    In no particular order
    - the vanity is a real thing. The effort that goes into hair, clothes, cars etc. is quite eye opening. This is moreso the males of the species too.
    - politics. This place is such a Tory dead cert, I just cannot comprehend how. Not sure how the Eaton club represent the white van/blue collar average worker out here but I'm just a blow-in, what would I know?! I've been on the losing side of every vote since I've been here. the lack of PR doesn't sit right.


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