The Reseeding/Stitching Discussion Thread.

Seedtech down this way

Hi guys.

Just to start off. Any info i put up here is my own personnel experience from stitching with the grass harrow and all opinions are my own. There will be other people coming in with more experience than myself in certain areas so things may be edited. With the year thats in it ill concentrate with poaching repair and seeds.

The first bit of knowledge i will pass on is that there is NO such thing as a "One stop shop for Reseeding". many people will be very prone/biased to one system or another but in my experience one system that suits one farm may fail in the farm next door. No idea why but that is my real world experience.


Biggest thing to remember is that any reseed can fail for a number of reasons. Poor seed, bad seedbed, too much rain or too little, slug attack or frit fly attack.

The two main types of grass seed are Diploids and Tetraploids.

Diploid
Higher tiller density
Denser swards less liable to poaching
Lower seed rate due to smaller seeds

Tetraploid
Higher quality
Generally more drought tolerant
More palatable (higher intake)
Lower tiller density therefore more open swards
Larger seed size therefore higher seeding rate
More upright growth habit (generally, with larger
leaf size)

Most overseeding mixes are made from Tetraploids as they are more aggressive growing grass varieties and will out grow the old grass in the swarth if given a chance.

http://specseed.co.nz/downloads/SpecialtySeeds-DiploidvsTetraploid.pdf

So an example of me repairing poached ground

* The ground (as a guide) should be able to take a slurry tanker without being tore up
* The amount of leveling runs of the harrow depends on the degree of poaching but most will be level in 1 or 2 runs.
* The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 10kg an acre but if the old grass is still fairly strongly established in the poached pasture then less can be applied.
* Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 0-7-30 or 10-10-20 are spread as per above (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the leveling runs)
* No harm to spread 1 bag of gran lime at this stage also.
* Then roll or wash in with a slurry tanker. Parlour washings or watery cattle slurry only. Pig slurry has been known to kill off seeds

The soil has to have a good index for the next 2 methods

So an example of me stitching ground.

* The ground should tightly grazed or cut for silage
* The amount of runs of the harrow depends on how much of the soil is exposed. 1 or 2 runs can do it but the more soil thats exposed then the better chance of seed strike.
* The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 10kg an acre but if the old grass is still fairly strongly established in the pasture then less can be applied.
* Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 0-7-30 are spread (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the exposing runs)
* You have to spread 2 bag of gran lime at this stage as the dead material that is brought up on the harrowing runs will turn the ground acidic.
* Then roll.
* A grazing managing system has to be applied now
* For example cattle are removed for 2 weeks. graze then for 3/4 days and removed then again for 2 weeks and allowed in for another 3/4 days. During this time NO nitrogen should be applied till the new grass is established and can compete with the old grass.
* NO silage can be cut from this method for the first year so this is usually done in the autumn after the second cut or first cut if the field is not required to be cut again



So an example of me Reseeding ground.

* The ground should sprayed off.
* The amount of runs of the harrow depends on how much of the soil is exposed. 1 or 2 runs can do it but the more soil thats exposed then the better chance of seed strike.
* The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 15kg an acre but have done it to 23kg an acre.
* Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 10-10-20 are spread (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the exposing runs)
* You have to spread 2 bag of gran lime at this stage as the dead material that is brought up and present from sprayed material on the harrowing runs will turn the ground acidic.
* Then roll.
* Dont forget to feed the new grass often as the new grass will be hungry. Biggest failure of reseeds is that farmers just close the gates after the harrow and leave it for months and then cant understand why its not performing. This is where the contractor or seed gets the blame

An example of poached ground.

Before harrowing
After harrowing
Roughly 6 weeks later

For this job i would have used a rejuvenation mix from Agritech which was all Tetraploid at 10kg per acre

I'll do a walk around of the grass harrow if there's an interest. Just to show how it works.

Pic 1 These are the rollers that are inside and at the bottom of the hopper. These rotate and move the seed down from the hopper to the pipes below. The faster the rollers turn the more seed is dispersed. Each roller does a different seed or crop. The middle one is the clover one as you can see from the very small grooves as the clover seed is tiny

Pic 2 this is the hopper. It can hold approx 6 to 7 bags of seed. So roughly nearly 90kg. This is enough depending on seed rate to keep me going for 7 to 8 acres which is roughly an hours seeding. If full of clover it's nearly a days work if not two.

Pic 3 This is the inside of the hopper. Under that seed is where the roller is situated. It is removed from the side of the seeder.

Pic 4 you can just about see the roller on top and the 8 pipes underneath the roller that carry the seed. By removing this panel you can empty any seed in the hopper at the end of the day by just running the roller.

Pic 5 here are the 8 pipes leading away from the seeder.

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

From lab man:When u stitch how deep does the seed go

Seed should be barely covered or left on top of the ground. Seed that's buried more than 1cm will not germinate (Open to correction on this one)

Reggie thank you so much for such an informative thread.

I have to confess it reminds me just slightly of a certain Henry Reed poem...

"Today we have naming of parts. Yesterday we had daily cleaning, and tomorrow we will have what to so after firing..."

Mf310 wrote: »

One thing i find does the best job on any reseed is rolling ive done 2 runs of the roller on some paddocks and serious establishment afterwards...... reggie do you ever get any jobs to just harrow a grass field no seed? Would you find it a good job i know a nice bit of dead grass comes after it alright.

Yeah do it on our own fields. Most lads I think still reckon harrowing fields are a gimmick and don't want to pay for it. Do a few paddocks for the horsey crowd tho

You would be very surprised of what trash comes out of a pasture. Sometimes just harrowing a pasture will be as good as a reseed sometimes. It removes the trash and allows the good healthy grass to tiller out and grow.


As for the rolling. It's all about a solid seedbed and soil contact. You would be surprised at how many lads refuse to roll thier fields

foxirl wrote: »

Great info Reggie. Any advice for mouse eared chickweed. Reseed from last September is full of it and the sheep don't seem to eat it. Thinking of saving hay on some of it and was wondering once the grass gets long will is smother it out.

2017 must have been a year for the chickweed as a neighbour has the same issue. He says it's popped up everywhere in a reseed.

If the grass doesn't smother it you could try to harrow it out after that. Hopefully the double hit might knock it back. Other than that then spray might be your only option.

Tomjim wrote: »

thanks for the thread - very informative.

Just wondering if a chain harrow would do the same job

Would be better than nothing but truthfully it hasn't enough weight to dig into the ground. Could possibly pull poached ground with extra runs maybe

Tomjim wrote: »

even the one on the frame

One on the frame might work as they usually have a levelling bar along the front

Brilliant brilliant info Reggie...thanks for taking the time..

farisfat wrote: »

Dose the time harrow form good enough seed bed in a full reseed.
What rate do u sow clover when over seeding.
And cost per acre.

A seed bed just has to be soild and the ground exposed. If you till the ground like mad All you are left with at times is powdery soil which is poached easily when wet.

Most of my work is repairing patchy reseeds or reseeds after the first winter. Poweharrows leave the ground very vulnerable to holding water unless very well rolled numerous times. All the seed needs is soil contact and that's where the roller comes in.

Clover is usually sown at 2kg an acre. The clover itself is expensive compared to grass seed so not sure about that but seeding run of harrow is €25 and any preparation runs are €10

farisfat wrote: »

Have you many full reseed jobs done.....and how did they turn out compared to power harrow or guttler.
What's output like on good level ground.
Sorry for all the questions.

No hassle. Only small amounts of full reseeds done last year as not much time but supposed to be large bits this year.

Difference in tine harrow to guttler is that the tine harrow has 180 tines exposing the ground where a guttler has about 26 (I think) per run. The guttlers tines are also straight tines so when they wear they might not have the same depth in the ground. After that the only difference is the roller at the rear. Only think about the roller is that it Sometimes can gather up the seed again if the rollers get damp.

With the powerharrow you get the ground well prepared but it has a habit of leaving the ground very tender. For instance we reseeded 5 acres in April one year. Went into the field in Oct with teleporter to lift a tree and sank the machine but the teleporter had no trouble in any other field only the reseeded one. I csme to the conculsion that it was powerharrowed too deeply and the soil wasn't compacted and allowing moisture to be stored between the layers. Never got a power harrow back since.

Was told after that you shouldn't powerharrow any deeper than an inch or two but at that rate you might as well be using a tine harrow and you don't be messing up the soil structure.

**all opinions above are my own and from my personnel experience. I'm aware people may have different thoughts on systems.

Tomjim wrote:

what other options are available that would not be too expensive

I've seeded most ways except overfeeding and stitching the chain harrow system does work