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The Reseeding/Stitching Discussion Thread.

Green farmer

Have a old pasture, never been reseeded. Really poor growth, even though good quality dry land. Did the soil rest and says I'm 1&2's for the p&k and ph 5-8. Was going to lime and reseed . What's that best way to tackle it ?

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Reggie.

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

From Who2 : Ive a long narrow paddock running off the back of one of my sheds thats fairly rough as ive had autumn born weanlings coming in and out through it all winter. i was thinking of growing something like kale this year and putting spring bulls that i intend to finish onto it and from there will be going onto a finishing diet. I know absolutely nothing about kale or growing it or even whether what im doing is right so any pointers would be great.

I have sown kale but I'll have to open this to the masses as I'm not fully sure on the management of it.

Reggie.

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

From lab man:When u stitch how deep does the seed go

Seed should be barely covered or left on top of the ground. Seed that's buried more than 1cm will not germinate (Open to correction on this one)

Reggie.

Pic 1 here the pipes lead to these dispersion plates. These plates spread the seed in a half moon shape roughly 2 feet radius around the plate

Pic 2 these are the work horses. These are 8mm tines that have up to 14 different settings to get as aggressive or as tender as you need them to be. As they are spring loaded they have savage tension and ripping power. Set at full tilt they will rip the top layer of soil to pieces but this is hard on the tine itself.

Pic 3 is the 50mm replaceable bush that supports the side platform. Each of the 3 platforms can move up and down and at any angle independently of one another.

Reggie.

Pic 1 These are the rollers that are inside and at the bottom of the hopper. These rotate and move the seed down from the hopper to the pipes below. The faster the rollers turn the more seed is dispersed. Each roller does a different seed or crop. The middle one is the clover one as you can see from the very small grooves as the clover seed is tiny

Pic 2 this is the hopper. It can hold approx 6 to 7 bags of seed. So roughly nearly 90kg. This is enough depending on seed rate to keep me going for 7 to 8 acres which is roughly an hours seeding. If full of clover it's nearly a days work if not two.

Pic 3 This is the inside of the hopper. Under that seed is where the roller is situated. It is removed from the side of the seeder.

Pic 4 you can just about see the roller on top and the 8 pipes underneath the roller that carry the seed. By removing this panel you can empty any seed in the hopper at the end of the day by just running the roller.

Pic 5 here are the 8 pipes leading away from the seeder.

Reggie.

Right what we have here is a Palatine 180 grass harrow with an APV Ps300 mounted on top. It's 4.5m wide and has a total of 180 tines with 60 tines on three separate platforms
Pic 1 and 2

Pic 3 is the top link sensor that shuts off the seed when the harrow is lifted but keeps the fans running.

Pic 4 is the magnet wheel sensor. This measures my speed by the number of rotations of the ground wheel. This in turn tells the control box to increase or decrease the flow of seeds by how fast I'm going. This insures that I'm getting and even spread of seed across the working width.

Pic 5 these are the two fans at the rear of the harrow which blow the seed down the pipes to the dispersion plates

Buford T. Justice XIX

From lab man:When u stitch how deep does the seed go

From Who2 : Ive a long narrow paddock running off the back of one of my sheds thats fairly rough as ive had autumn born weanlings coming in and out through it all winter. i was thinking of growing something like kale this year and putting spring bulls that i intend to finish onto it and from there will be going onto a finishing diet. I know absolutely nothing about kale or growing it or even whether what im doing is right so any pointers would be great.
Mod note: Sorry lads, I deleted your posts just to keep all Reggies posts together so Reggie can reply quoting this one

mahoney_j

Good man Reggie keep the info comming ,makings of a really interesting thread here.go on show us the landini and how clean it is !!!!!!!!

Reggie.

I'll do a walk around of the grass harrow if there's an interest. Just to show how it works.

Reggie.

Who2 wrote: »

Ive a long narrow paddock running off the back of one of my sheds thats fairly rough as ive had autumn born weanlings coming in and out through it all winter. i was thinking of growing something like kale this year and putting spring bulls that i intend to finish onto it and from there will be going onto a finishing diet. I know absolutely nothing about kale or growing it or even whether what im doing is right so any pointers would be great.

I'll have to open this one to the masses. Can sow it alright but not too familiar to the management of it.

Reggie.

An example of poached ground.

Before harrowing
After harrowing
Roughly 6 weeks later

For this job i would have used a rejuvenation mix from Agritech which was all Tetraploid at 10kg per acre

Reggie.

lab man wrote: »

When u stitch how deep does the seed go

Seed should be on top of the ground or barely covered. Any grass seed that's buried any more than 1cm will not germinate. (Open to correction on this)

Reggie.

So an example of me repairing poached ground

* The ground (as a guide) should be able to take a slurry tanker without being tore up
* The amount of leveling runs of the harrow depends on the degree of poaching but most will be level in 1 or 2 runs.
* The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 10kg an acre but if the old grass is still fairly strongly established in the poached pasture then less can be applied.
* Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 0-7-30 or 10-10-20 are spread as per above (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the leveling runs)
* No harm to spread 1 bag of gran lime at this stage also.
* Then roll or wash in with a slurry tanker. Parlour washings or watery cattle slurry only. Pig slurry has been known to kill off seeds

The soil has to have a good index for the next 2 methods

So an example of me stitching ground.

* The ground should tightly grazed or cut for silage
* The amount of runs of the harrow depends on how much of the soil is exposed. 1 or 2 runs can do it but the more soil thats exposed then the better chance of seed strike.
* The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 10kg an acre but if the old grass is still fairly strongly established in the pasture then less can be applied.
* Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 0-7-30 are spread (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the exposing runs)
* You have to spread 2 bag of gran lime at this stage as the dead material that is brought up on the harrowing runs will turn the ground acidic.
* Then roll.
* A grazing managing system has to be applied now
* For example cattle are removed for 2 weeks. graze then for 3/4 days and removed then again for 2 weeks and allowed in for another 3/4 days. During this time NO nitrogen should be applied till the new grass is established and can compete with the old grass.
* NO silage can be cut from this method for the first year so this is usually done in the autumn after the second cut or first cut if the field is not required to be cut again

So an example of me Reseeding ground.

* The ground should sprayed off.
* The amount of runs of the harrow depends on how much of the soil is exposed. 1 or 2 runs can do it but the more soil thats exposed then the better chance of seed strike.
* The seeding run is then done. The seeding rate is decided by the farmer but usually its 15kg an acre but have done it to 23kg an acre.
* Afterwards Approx 2 x bags of 10-10-20 are spread (Sometimes this can be spread first and can be harrowed into the ground on the exposing runs)
* You have to spread 2 bag of gran lime at this stage as the dead material that is brought up and present from sprayed material on the harrowing runs will turn the ground acidic.
* Then roll.
* Dont forget to feed the new grass often as the new grass will be hungry. Biggest failure of reseeds is that farmers just close the gates after the harrow and leave it for months and then cant understand why its not performing. This is where the contractor or seed gets the blame

Reggie.

Right if going overseeding a pasture or stitching in to unproductive pasture then the best practice is to have the grass either sprayed off/ Tightly grazed or go at the job just after a field is cut for silage.

The reason for stitching just after grass is cut for silage is that the old grass will be stunted for a few days and will give the new seeds a chance to germinate and get established before they are completely smothered by the old grass.

Very important if grass is stitched in is to regulate the Nitrogen that is applied afterwards as you'll only be feeding the old grass which in turn will outperform the new grass and more than likely kill it off. The only time you would load on the nitrogen is if the grass was sprayed off or the field is badly poached and you just want to repair it asap and you dont care which grass establishes as you just want the field back into rotation asap.

So if Stitching in you spread 0-7-30 and if its Poached/Sprayed ground then its your standard 10-10-20

Pics below are a good example of a tightly grazed paddock that's right for stitching in

Reggie.

The two main types of grass seed are Diploids and Tetraploids.

Diploid
Higher tiller density
Denser swards less liable to poaching
Lower seed rate due to smaller seeds

Tetraploid
Higher quality
Generally more drought tolerant
More palatable (higher intake)
Lower tiller density therefore more open swards
Larger seed size therefore higher seeding rate
More upright growth habit (generally, with larger
leaf size)

Most overseeding mixes are made from Tetraploids as they are more aggressive growing grass varieties and will out grow the old grass in the swarth if given a chance.

http://specseed.co.nz/downloads/SpecialtySeeds-DiploidvsTetraploid.pdf

Reggie.

Right lets start off with the Recommended seed Lists.

Every year the Dept release a list of recommended grass types that should be used to produce the best Silage/Fodder/Milk Yield or Thrive from Grazing.
Its this list that most grass seed companies base their different grass mixes off.
This is why you might notice that certain grass varieties may be changed in certain bag mixes every year.

The important to know that you can request your own mix if you have a certain preference to certain varieties or for example if you wish to have a higher percentage of clover in the bag mix or wanted 3 grass varieties instead of two. These mixes may occur an extra charge per bag tho.

Never be afraid to contact the local Seed Company Rep to discuss your needs and get the latest updates on the grass seeds that are preforming well in the real world. The Good Reps will call out to your farm to walk the ground with you and should advice you.

The link below is the seed list for 2017 and has a few explanations in the introduction.

http://agritech.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/GrassandWhiteCloverRecommendedListVarietiesforIreland2017210317.pdf

Reggie.

Hi guys.

Just to start off. Any info i put up here is my own personnel experience from stitching with the grass harrow and all opinions are my own. There will be other people coming in with more experience than myself in certain areas so things may be edited. With the year thats in it ill concentrate with poaching repair and seeds.

The first bit of knowledge i will pass on is that there is NO such thing as a "One stop shop for Reseeding". many people will be very prone/biased to one system or another but in my experience one system that suits one farm may fail in the farm next door. No idea why but that is my real world experience.

Biggest thing to remember is that any reseed can fail for a number of reasons. Poor seed, bad seedbed, too much rain or too little, slug attack or frit fly attack.

Sami23

Dunedin wrote: »

Is slurry a good job spread on to the ploughed scrapes before I rotavate it.

It’s ploughed since last wee of August but weather broke.

Will be tilling and sowing at first opportunity once weather takes up, whenever that might be!!??

Absolutely

Dunedin

Is slurry a good job spread on to the ploughed scrapes before I rotavate it.

It’s ploughed since last wee of August but weather broke.

Will be tilling and sowing at first opportunity once weather takes up, whenever that might be!!??

CloughCasey1

Lad near Enniscrone does Sinclair McGill seed. Got seed to suit our dry ground in '15 from McGuinness in Slane. They were very helpful and knew their stuff but will be going back to Sinclair McGill next month again. Abaolute dynamite.

pedigree 6

Don't forget Germinal Seeds.

dh1985

Mc Guinness seeds, slane

yosemitesam1

Seedtech down this way

charolais0153

I get seed from seed direct. Is .they mix it to whatever way you like.

Mooooo

Reggie. wrote: »

Hi guys. Can people post up any of the main irish seed merchants that they know in thier areas. Googling them but not really getting anywhere

Goldcrop would be one, most coops would have em too. Tipperary seeds another I think. Is mastercrop glanbias?

Reggie.

Hi guys. Can people post up any of the main irish seed merchants that they know in thier areas. Googling them but not really getting anywhere

pedigree 6

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ag science book says no organic matter. And that organic matter only comes from the straw. :rolleyes:

Don't mind that book. :pac:
It's organic matter going in the cow and it's organic matter coming out.
All stuff that grows and rots is organic matter.

Edit: Burn that book.

charolais0153

pedigree 6 wrote: »

The difference between slurry and fert is the Organic Matter in the slurry.
Obviously dung will have higher OM again than slurry.
Basically OM is the stuff that holds onto the nutrients in your soil and stops it from leaching and provides food for worms and the worms make it more plant available.

Organic matter is good stuff.:)

Ag science book says no organic matter. And that organic matter only comes from the straw. :rolleyes:

pedigree 6

Green farmer wrote: »

Lads might be able to advise as I've zero slurry experience, but was looking up teagasc research that said 1,000 gallons of good pig slurry is the same as one 50kg bag of 19 7 20 or €26 at prices a year ago. So in my case, reckon would be nearly as cheap to buy Fert, less the hassle.

The difference between slurry and fert is the Organic Matter in the slurry.
Obviously dung will have higher OM again than slurry.
Basically OM is the stuff that holds onto the nutrients in your soil and stops it from leaching and provides food for worms and the worms make it more plant available.

Organic matter is good stuff.:)

Green farmer

Username John wrote: »

Will it get dung this autumn Green?

I think a bit of slurry would do a better job than bag fertiliser for one go...
I should also say, i have nothing to base than on, other than my own thinking

Lads might be able to advise as I've zero slurry experience, but was looking up teagasc research that said 1,000 gallons of good pig slurry is the same as one 50kg bag of 19 7 20 or €26 at prices a year ago. So in my case, reckon would be nearly as cheap to buy Fert, less the hassle.

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

Just an update lads. Going to give the field 2T an acre of lime. It's covered with moss between the grass so going to see what kind of response comes from that. Looked into the pig slurry and between the cost of paying the piggery for transport and a contractor to spread it, wasn't working out much cheaper then fert, so going to give it something like 10 10 20 between grazings. Then next autumn going to look at the reseeding by disc Harrow as the soil is too shallow for ploughing.

Will it get dung this autumn Green?

I think a bit of slurry would do a better job than bag fertiliser for one go...
I should also say, i have nothing to base than on, other than my own thinking