Is America treating the UK like a colony?

recedite · 05-06-2019 10:34am

Berserker wrote: »

The NHS is a big juicy carrot on so many fronts. He could bring it to the US franchise style or US firms could get a monopoly when it comes to providing services to it. The latter would bring an awful lot of big firms and jobs back to the US.

Eh no, its not about creating a monopoly, and its not about dismantling the NHS.

Currently the big German pharma and medicare corporations have free trade access to supply the UK's NHS.
US pharma does not (unless they have set up plants in Ireland)
That whole situation could potentially reverse, post-Brexit. If that happened, it would probably have more effect on Ireland than on the NHS patients.
I think the Irish manufacturing plants would remain open though, because they would still service the vast EU market outside of the UK.

Berserker · 05-06-2019 10:39am

recedite wrote: »

Eh no, its not about creating a monopoly, and its not about dismantling the NHS.

Currently the big German pharma and medicare corporations have free trade access to supply the UK's NHS.
US pharma does not (unless they have set up plants in Ireland)
That whole situation could potentially reverse, post-Brexit. If that happened, it would probably have more effect on Ireland than on the NHS patients.

I never made any comment on NHS patients, dismantling the NHS and your post above would create a monopoly for the US firms. They'll get their medication etc from the US. As for the negative effect that would have on Ireland, people here are more than happy to suffer that lose, it appears.

Wanderer78 · 05-06-2019 10:42am

skooterblue2 wrote:

Unemployment is the lowest it has been in years in the states. The new trade war with China will favour America in the end. Times are a changin'.

Hahaha excellent, more share buyback schemes, should sort out those good ould folks in the rust belt! Ffs!

steddyeddy · 05-06-2019 10:45am

Berserker wrote: »

That ship has sailed. If the Scots were going to go it alone, the optimal time was when the referendum occurred.

The last referendum threatened Scotland with being out of the EU. Now look what happened.

Trump is offering a trade deal with the UK and Trump will do a trade deal with the UK. If you think the GFA is going to stop the US from signing a big juicy deal, which puts America First, then you are bonkers.

Yes Trump will offer the UK a trade deal. Any trade deal will put America first. It's dealing with a much much less powerful UK now and can act as the rule giver.

He's already said the NHS is on the table. I just live over here and that's not acceptable to me.

You're misunderstanding how a trade deal works. A trade deal isn't something signed by Trump and that's the end of it. It goes through Congress. It takes a very long time and often doesn't get through. Nancy Pelosi, house speaker had this to say:

Nancy Pelosi has said there will be no chance of a US trade deal with the UK if the Good Friday Agreement is undermined by Brexit.

Speaking at the London School of Economics, the speaker of the US House of Representatives warned a future trading arrangement between the two countries is not guaranteed, and said it would not happen if the UK’s exit from the European Union violates the terms of the 1998 peace accord.

Ms Pelosi said: “First of all it is very hard to pass a trade bill in the Congress of the United States, so there’s no given anyway. But if there were any weakening of the Good Friday accords there would be no chance whatsoever, a non-starter for a US-UK trade agreement.

So it doesn't look good. Combined with Trump's links to Sinn Feinn I wouldn't be too keen to trust him if I were British.

The NHS is a big juicy carrot on so many fronts. He could bring it to the US franchise style or US firms could get a monopoly when it comes to providing services to it. The latter would bring an awful lot of big firms and jobs back to the US.

It would indeed. At the huge expense of the UK. It seems that in your mind you're seeing this as a partnership between the UK and US. It's nothing of the sort.

The EU has their backs.

Yes they have actually and they're not even demanding a change to our health service. Not that I'd mind as it's sh1t.

steddyeddy · 05-06-2019 10:47am

Berserker wrote: »

And what about the countless positive things he said about the people, the Royal family, the relationship the US has with the UK, the military ..... ? How many times did he refer to the UK as their (US) closest ally, to the nearest hundred? Nothing wrong with trading on WTO rules, fyi, plenty of trade is done on those terms.

He did indeed but he also raised money for Sinn Fein before the London terror attack. I wouldn't believe much of what he says. He's a loon.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/09/donald-trump-ireland-sinn-fein-terrorism

steddyeddy · 05-06-2019 10:55am

janfebmar wrote: »

The UK will not be existing SOLELY on W T O rules. It has deals already lined up with some countries. And with other countries, nothing wrong with WT O rules. A lot of trade is done that way already

Which countries?

_blaaz · 05-06-2019 10:57am

janfebmar wrote: »

The UK will not be existing SOLELY on W T O rules. It has deals already lined up with some countries. And with other countries, nothing wrong with WT O rules. A lot of trade is done that way already

Your government are lying to you mate...they havnt any trade deals lined up

is_that_so · 05-06-2019 11:00am

_blaaz wrote: »

Your government are lying to you mate...they haven't any trade deals lined up

I think they have 10 but none which immediately scream bright future. Chile, Norway and Iceland are three of them and they get even less exciting after that. They currently have 40 as members of the EU.

Del.Monte · 05-06-2019 11:02am

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Slurp slurp get that soup in

Thanks for your intelligent contribution but we didn't need to partake of the soup.

05-06-2019 11:07am

janfebmar wrote: »

Trump and the USA also advised the UK to go for a no deal Brexit and to "throw off the shackles of EU membership".

He would say that, wouldn't he. Absolutely hilarious - or frightening - how egregiously obtuse Brexiteers are. Uncle Sam is there to help you, your friend in times of trouble. Not there at all to feed on the carcass of a state whose politicians have burnt all bridges and which is accordingly desperate for a deal, any deal. My 2-year-old would produce a better hand in negotiations than this.

If Brexiteers like you even knew your own history you might notice that big massive elephant in the room that is 20th century British history: the US using WWI and WW II to overthrow the British Empire and become the dominant world power with Britain ending each war in massive debt to the US. They're now going to genuinely help you?

So, so, so much astonishing stupidity at every single corner of Brexit. It's relentless. Poor, poor Ken Clarke is about the only honourable person left over there to speak out, and that lack of courage from the political representatives of educated and cultured English people is, for me, by far the most shocking thing of all about Brexit. We always knew the parasitic toffs and ignorant plebs existed, but we were all very wrong when we assumed, or rather surmised, that reasonable and more intelligent people outnumbered them.

Berserker · 05-06-2019 11:11am

Deleted User wrote: »

Window dressing in front of the media assembly.

And the negative remarks are the world's biggest attention seeker attention seeking?

steddyeddy wrote: »

The last referendum threatened Scotland with being out of the EU. Now look what happened.

And there was loads of debate about that. Those in favour of independence claimed they would not have to apply for membership. No debate on the matter if another referendum comes around. All of the those 'maybe' voters who swung to a 'Yes' will vote 'No' if another referendum happens.

steddyeddy wrote: »

You're misunderstanding how a trade deal works. A trade deal isn't something signed by Trump and that's the end of it. It goes through Congress. It takes a very long time and often doesn't get through. Nancy Pelosi, house speaker had this to say:

You're misunderstanding how Trump and the US works. I lived and worked in the US for many years, in finance. I've dealt will bullies like him. If a deal works for the US, it will go through. It's all about the dollar.

steddyeddy wrote: »

So it doesn't look good. Combined with Trump's links to Sinn Feinn I wouldn't be too keen to trust him if I were British.

I'm well aware of his links to SF and his friendship with Gerry Adams. Trump flips and flops and seeks attentions. Ditto for SF. Cut from the same cloth. Trump is friends with any number of organisations around the world. Wouldn't worry about that.

steddyeddy wrote: »

It seems that in your mind you're seeing this as a partnership between the UK and US. It's nothing of the sort.

It is a partnership. If a war breaks out tomorrow and the US is looking for people to join them, who will be their first point of call? Trump and the US will give Europe the two fingers, put America first and strike a deal. That's what's going to happen. Totally agree with you about him being a loon, fyi. God only knows what he's likely to come out when while he's in Ireland! Attention seeking lunatic.

05-06-2019 11:23am

Berserker wrote: »

It is a partnership. If a war breaks out tomorrow and the US is looking for people to join them, who will be their first point of call?

And if a war breaks out and Britain needs the US to help them? You remember, war breaking out in 1914 and the US comes straight to the rescue in... 1917, or war breaking out in 1939 and the US comes straight to the rescue in... 1942. It will be different this time, of course!

steddyeddy · 05-06-2019 11:34am

Berserker wrote: »

And there was loads of debate about that. Those in favour of independence claimed they would not have to apply for membership. No debate on the matter if another referendum comes around. All of the those 'maybe' voters who swung to a 'Yes' will vote 'No' if another referendum happens.

Well it's up to the Scots at the end of the day.

You're misunderstanding how Trump and the US works. I lived and worked in the US for many years, in finance. I've dealt will bullies like him. If a deal works for the US, it will go through. It's all about the dollar.

I work for the US Dept Of Energy. He tried to cut the budget of NREL, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory where I research by 80%. We proposed 50%, when it got through Congress it was less than a 20% cut.

It's not about what Trump wants. It's about what Congress wants.

I'm well aware of his links to SF and his friendship with Gerry Adams. Trump flips and flops and seeks attentions. Ditto for SF. Cut from the same cloth. Trump is friends with any number of organisations around the world. Wouldn't worry about that.

But you take his word in relation to the UK stuff? I don't attend SF rallies but If I did would you think I was pro-UK.

It is a partnership. If a war breaks out tomorrow and the US is looking for people to join them, who will be their first point of call?
Trump and the US will give Europe the two fingers, put America first and strike a deal. That's what's going to happen. Totally agree with you about him being a loon, fyi. God only knows what he's likely to come out when while he's in Ireland! Attention seeking lunatic.

It sounds like you're an American from what you're telling me. You're misinterpreting the mindset of British/English people. They don't like sending over their troops to die in your wars and they also value their NHS above pretty much anything else.

tashiusclay · 05-06-2019 11:34am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The only leverage they have is their military.

Unemployment is the lowest it has been in years in the states. The new trade war with China will favour America in the end. Times are a changin'.

China owns the US as regards foreign debt, ffs

J Mysterio · 05-06-2019 11:41am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what the sweet fcuk Trump was on about when he said the NHS was 'on the table' when it comes to Brexit negotiations???

The US want the UK health system to be privatized, allowing them to invest in it and take it over.

Anteayer · 05-06-2019 11:44am

RustyNut wrote: »

.

It would be accurate if the star were attached with with a string to the end of the flag as their status is absolutely not going to be remotely similar to a US state, whereas they were a full EU member with a ton of exceptional opt-outs and special arrangements that could have been argued to have been a rather privileged position.

Anyone who keeps having to go on and on about their special relationship is weak. The US isn't even aware it has a special relationship as it's for the most part only vaguely aware of the UK as it's not dependent on it. It's just some place over there where Mary Poppins lives and some bands with funny accents came from and that they seem to think also has notoriously bad teeth for some reason.

Harry Palmr · 05-06-2019 11:51am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what the sweet fcuk Trump was on about when he said the NHS was 'on the table' when it comes to Brexit negotiations???

The NHS budget is about 130 billion quid this year, the Yanks want as much of that money being spent in medical facilities they own and run as possible be it a hospital, research, geriatric care or an ambulance service - call

steddyeddy · 05-06-2019 11:55am

I don't get Brexit or the mindset behind it. How can Brexit be patriotic if it involves selling off the country's national health service?

Anteayer · 05-06-2019 12:00pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't get Brexit or the mindset behind it. How can Brexit be patriotic if it involves selling off the country's national health service?

It's pseudopatriotic neoliberalism. They're just wrapping a layer of patriotism around deregulation and removing the safety systems of a free-market-social-democracy.

Stick a Union Jack on it, salute it and call anyone who disagree with you a traitor. Oldest trick in the book?

AdamD · 05-06-2019 1:18pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

It's sad to read so much 'chip on shoulder', anti-British ****e on this thread given the way Ireland has long since become the 51st state of the USA in all but name. This neutral State has allowed the USA to operate its military adventures through Shannon Airport for decades.

The country has no air defence against the Russians or anybody else bar what the British provides. In the event that the country was ever threatened by anybody where would Ireland turn to.....the wicked Brits. Irish people need to grow up - a majority of British people voted for Brexit for a wide variety of reasons and it's going to happen.

Why the **** would we need air defence against the Russians?

Absolutely bizarre post.

Fan of Netflix · 05-06-2019 1:26pm

AdamD wrote: »

Why the **** would we need air defence against the Russians?

Absolutely bizarre post.

It's the type of stuff you expect from the union jack flagsters.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 05-06-2019 1:35pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Thanks for your intelligent contribution but we didn't need to partake of the soup.

The brits have a knack of always coming out on top in the long run.

The EU will eventually implode without serious reform. Where are we at then?

In the meantime not having any sort of ally in the Union worries me a lot. I've a feeling that we're going to get rolled. Eventual tax harmonisation in particular is going to sting badly.

05-06-2019 1:48pm

AdamD wrote: »

Why the **** would we need air defence against the Russians?

Absolutely bizarre post.

InTheShadows · 05-06-2019 1:52pm

ratracer wrote: »

Our mob will be no different when he’s here!

They'll be worse and always have. Look at the pathetic fawning over Obama last time he was here. It's hilarious to hear people giving out about the British considering the way we act here in this country.

tryfix · 05-06-2019 1:54pm

The UK doffing the cap to a US President is par for the course, Bush, Blair and poodles it's what they do.

I get no joy at seeing the shocking state of UK politics at the moment. It beggars belief that the governing Tory party has become so dysfunctional that it is having a civil war meltdown in public at such a crucial time for the UKs future. It's treachery that all those ridiculous mid-level politicians are running around with puffed out chests spouting nonsense while the clock ticks down to a crash out. Piss up, brewery, wtf is in the water over there?

Auguste Comte · 05-06-2019 1:57pm

tryfix wrote: »

I get no joy at seeing the shocking state of UK politics at the moment.

Not even a teeny tiney bit?

topmanamillion · 05-06-2019 2:00pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what the sweet fcuk Trump was on about when he said the NHS was 'on the table' when it comes to Brexit negotiations???

He wants private US companies to take over the running of NHS healthboard Trusts.
Although he has since backtracked on this. Its hard to know what he wants seeing as at one point when he was asked about the NHS it appeared May had to explain to him what the NHS was.

AbdulAbhaile · 05-06-2019 2:06pm

topmanamillion wrote: »

May had to explain to him what the NHS was.

The NHS must sound like communism to him. He's probably planning an invasion as we speak to liberate them from this. Biggly.

tryfix · 05-06-2019 2:07pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Not even a teeny tiney bit?

Honestly not even a little bit and I'm definitely on the opposite side of the fence to the UK fanboys . The whole Brexit thing is a giant pain in the hole that drains everyone's energy. I wish that they'd just get on with it and feck off out of the EU so that some kind of normality could return.

InTheShadows · 05-06-2019 2:09pm

AbdulAbhaile wrote: »

The NHS must sound like communism to him. He's probably planning an invasion as we speak to liberate them from this. Biggly.

But yet under Trump America has invaded nobody

threeball · 05-06-2019 2:12pm

Anteayer wrote: »

It's pseudopatriotic neoliberalism. They're just wrapping a layer of patriotism around deregulation and removing the safety systems of a free market, social democracy.

Stick a Union Jack on it, salute it and call anyone who disagree with you a traitor. Oldest trick in the book?

It's what the yanks have been doing since the first world war.

who the fug · 05-06-2019 2:13pm

AbdulAbhaile wrote: »

The NHS must sound like communism to him. He's probably planning an invasion as we speak to liberate them from this. Biggly.

Or the US Military , as it just keeps swallowing all the money given to it, keeps asking for more, and it unpatriotic to ask why are we funding this beast

jimgoose · 05-06-2019 2:15pm

AbdulAbhaile wrote: »

The NHS must sound like communism to him. He's probably planning an invasion as we speak to liberate them from this. Biggly.

Tellin' ya, Gerry Ford's economics are the worst thing that's happened to this country since pantyhose ruined finger-fucking.

cameramonkey · 05-06-2019 2:28pm

InTheShadows wrote: »

But yet under Trump America has invaded nobody

They are just bombing loads of countries and killing lots of people. They are also maintaining fighting forces on the ground in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan to name but a few.

Bolton would love to invade Iran and Venezuela to create mayhem but the military boys are not backing him.

steddyeddy · 05-06-2019 2:30pm

Aegir wrote: »

The house speaker, Nancy Pelosi said that a trade deal would not happen if peace in Northern Ireland was endangered. You think the Americans would sit back if Russia started bombing Ireland for some reason?

05-06-2019 2:32pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

The house speaker, Nancy Pelosi said that a trade deal would not happen if peace in Northern Ireland was endangered. You think the Americans would sit back if Russia started bombing Ireland for some reason?

so you are saying that Ireland does need air defence?

If so, then why does it hide behind the UK?

An Claidheamh · 05-06-2019 2:51pm

Aegir wrote: »

so you are saying that Ireland does need air defence?

If so, then why does it hide behind the UK?

Hide behind the UK?

What can the UK do to the Russians Aegir, apart from complain about their crimes and do nothing?

UK is hiding behind America, just like everyone, UK just wants to be its satrap.

By the way, look at how the UK has punished the Kremlin for poisoning its citizens - it hasn't.

UK still deluding itself its powerful = Brexit

Must be infuriating to the Brits that Ireland has more influence in Congress than them, and hasn't spent a cent on an useless aircraft carrier or nukes they cannot use without US permission.

05-06-2019 3:00pm

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Hide behind the UK?

What can the UK do to the Russians Aegir, apart from complain about their crimes and do nothing?

UK is hiding behind America, just like everyone, UK just wants to be its satrap.

By the way, look at how the UK has punished the Kremlin for poisoning its citizens - it hasn't.

UK still deluding itself its powerful = Brexit

Must be infuriating to the Brits that Ireland has more influence in Congress than them, and hasn't spent a cent on an useless aircraft carrier or nukes they cannot use without US permission.

Russian bombers enter UK Airspace, RAF escorts them until they clear off.

Russian Bombers enter Irish airspace, RAF escorts them until they clear off...then tell the Irish who knew nothing about the two bombers flying across international air lanes with no transponders on, in an area that it is their duty to control.

no US involvement whatsoever.

cameramonkey · 05-06-2019 3:06pm

Aegir wrote: »

Russian bombers enter UK Airspace, RAF escorts them until they clear off.

Russian Bombers enter Irish airspace, RAF escorts them until they clear off...then tell the Irish who knew nothing about the two bombers flying across international air lanes with no transponders on, in an area that it is their duty to control.

no US involvement whatsoever.

The Russian aircraft did not enter either Irish or UK airspace.

It would be a very different outcome if that had happened.

Why were civilian aircraft affected if they the Irish controllers only heard about the Russian aircraft after the event.

dd973 · 05-06-2019 3:09pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

This rambling post says more about your anti-British mentality than the subject under discussion.

Proudly anti-British, that is the U.K state, nothing against the island of Britain or the English, Scots and Welsh and wider populations who live there.

Detest the monarchy, the public school system, the British Armed Forces, the Butcher's Apron, 6 of our counties under another jurisdiction, the British state's historical crimes.

recedite · 05-06-2019 3:13pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

They are just bombing loads of countries and killing lots of people.

You're not very big on specifics, are you.

cameramonkey wrote: »

They are also maintaining fighting forces on the ground in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan to name but a few.

Gradually extricating themselves from wars started by previous presidents.
Here's a list of some of the countries bombed by Obama and Bush.
And that's not including Obama's massive expansion of the very dodgy drone strike execution program, and his War on Wikileaks.

cameramonkey · 05-06-2019 3:16pm

recedite wrote: »

You're not very big on specifics, are you.
Gradually extricating themselves from wars started by previous presidents.
Here's a list of some of the countries bombed by Obama and Bush.
And that's not including Obama's massive expansion of the very dodgy drone strike execution program, and his War on Wikileaks.

Are you trying to say that Obama and Bush were more bomb happy than Trump?

recedite · 05-06-2019 3:17pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

Are you trying to say that Obama and Bush were more bomb happy than Trump?

I certainly am.

emo72 · 05-06-2019 3:18pm

Can't believe what I'm hearing about the NHS.
"Our corporate soulsuckers has sucked America dry, now we need your people to suck on."

What will the UK do? This is madness that it's even suggested. This is s dystopian future right now. The fukin cheek of them.

dd973 · 05-06-2019 3:19pm

tryfix wrote: »

The UK doffing the cap to a US President is par for the course, Bush, Blair and poodles it's what they do.

I get no joy at seeing the shocking state of UK politics at the moment. It beggars belief that the governing Tory party has become so dysfunctional that it is having a civil war meltdown in public at such a crucial time for the UKs future. It's treachery that all those ridiculous mid-level politicians are running around with puffed out chests spouting nonsense while the clock ticks down to a crash out. Piss up, brewery, wtf is in the water over there?

Reality has caught up with it, their political and electoral system isn't fit for purpose on top of 40 years of neoliberalism and 10 years of austerity that people are sick of and see it all for the scam it all is. Like here, social mobility has ceased and unless there's radical reform and redistribution, the future is grim.

Work in one of Bezos' or Mike Ashley's warehouses on a ZHC for £8.50 an hour while they sit on their arses counting their billions?, f**k off.

cameramonkey · 05-06-2019 3:20pm

recedite wrote: »

I certainly am.

I would not disagree but it does not mean that Trump is entirely innocent of the charge. He ran on a non interventionist ticket but has bombed Syria and is supporting the genocidal Saudis in their war in Yemen.

Hardly a saint is Trump.

steddyeddy · 05-06-2019 3:23pm

Aegir wrote: »

so you are saying that Ireland does need air defence?

If so, then why does it hide behind the UK?

No it doesn't need air defence. It sits in between the US and the UK. Even if the UK decided not to help out during this supposedly imminent Russian bombing the Americans would pressure them until they did. It isn't in anyone's interest for Ireland to be attacked by the Russians.

05-06-2019 3:26pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

The Russian aircraft did not enter either Irish or UK airspace.

Irish controlled airspace

cameramonkey wrote: »

It would be a very different outcome if that had happened.

from who?

cameramonkey wrote: »

Why were civilian aircraft affected if they the Irish controllers only heard about the Russian aircraft after the event.

civilian airlines were protected, because the British fighters put their transponders on, so other planes could see them. As the Norwegians did prior to handing over to the British and the French did after they took over.

The Irish, on the other hand, did nothing.

05-06-2019 3:27pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

No it doesn't need air defence. It sits in between the US and the UK. Even if the UK decided not to help out during this supposedly imminent Russian bombing the Americans would pressure them until they did. It isn't in anyone's interest for Ireland to be attacked by the Russians.

so it hides behind Britain and the US?

jimgoose · 05-06-2019 3:35pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

The Russian aircraft did not enter either Irish or UK airspace...

A pair of Tu-160 Blackjacks, a cruise missile capable aircraft, entered what's known as the UK's "area of interest", usually understood to mean that portion of territory for which the UK provides ATC services. Typhoons from RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Coningsby cruised over to eyeball your bloody Ivan until he wandered off again. And the World turns.

Is America treating the UK like a colony?

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