Jamal Khashoggi killed in Saudi embassy.

AllGunsBlazing · 19-10-2018 7:04pm

Visit Iran in 2018! Sure we only hang people nowadays!

(This post was sponsored by the Iranian Department of Tourism.)

nthclare · 19-10-2018 7:09pm

Ipso wrote: »

Wasn't sure if you were serious, although it could be the result of the childish idea that many people have that leads them to be soft on places because they don't like the US.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran/

**** happens in Ireland too...

Mass grave Cover ups....racism, leftism....

Anyone can make up that...

There is mob culture here as well, people getting tortured by criminal s etc...

The Catholic church...

The HSE cancer scandal, you could metaphorically say what happened to those women is torture....

The trouble's in the North.....

People in the middle East don't know the difference between the IRA and the regular army...

Same as the regular army in Iran and the Revolution Guard's...

We get trickling information...

Iran has a long way to go, but I'd be happier in Iran rather than Saudi.

It wasn't long ago when women were locked up for having a giggle or flirting, having a baby out of wedlock.

Religious minorities were persecuted here, Protestant s burnt out of their homes after partition.

We could go around in circles here buddy...

FTA69 · 19-10-2018 7:19pm

nthclare wrote: »

Saudi is a sandpit with a pond of sludge underneath,a wasteland of sand and scrub.....

As for Iran it's a beautiful country, amazing culture.
Jews Christians and Muslims living together in Persia the cradle of civilisation.

Tattoo Parlours, bars and clubs for the Christians and Jews...

Thriving businesses, shopping centres Trans gender friendly....

Although they've no time for wahabbism and sunni style Sharia law...

They hang people, but no head chopping....

They're trendy, intelligent and some of the most beautiful men and women on the planet...

As for Saudi it's not a place I'd like to go, but Iran it's on my wish list...

They're the envy of the middle East...

Long live Persia

There's no bars in Iran, there's parties and very wealthy people with mansions etc that might have club nights but no licensed premises. These are often raided too with the attendees arrested and fined. Also you sound like you're describing middle class Tehranis more than the country at large, there's a big difference. The economy is also in the jacks wih huge amounts of money being pumped into Syria to fund Iran's involvement there and massive youth unemployment.

The young people you describe are supremely f*cked off with a theocratic government that throws them in jail for not wearing headscarves.

In the nicest possible sense, it's clear you've never been there. I went for a bit three years ago and it is an amazing, wonderful country. But it's not how you describe.

FTA69 · 19-10-2018 7:19pm

Ah sorry, I think you're on a wind up. Carry on.

ISOP · 19-10-2018 7:28pm

wexie wrote: »

Interesting article here that identifies the members of the 'alleged' hit team.
I'd love to know quite what 'innocent' explanation is going to be given for a bunch of Royal Guards, intelligence officers and a forensic pathologist to have taken 2 private jets for a daytrip to Turkey :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45906396

they wanted to visit the world famous spires of Istanbul

Ipso · 19-10-2018 7:30pm

nthclare wrote: »

**** happens in Ireland too...

Mass grave Cover ups....racism, leftism....

Anyone can make up that...

There is mob culture here as well, people getting tortured by criminal s etc...

The Catholic church...

The HSE cancer scandal, you could metaphorically say what happened to those women is torture....

The trouble's in the North.....

People in the middle East don't know the difference between the IRA and the regular army...

Same as the regular army in Iran and the Revolution Guard's...

We get trickling information...

Iran has a long way to go, but I'd be happier in Iran rather than Saudi.

It wasn't long ago when women were locked up for having a giggle or flirting, having a baby out of wedlock.

Religious minorities were persecuted here, Protestant s burnt out of their homes after partition.

We could go around in circles here buddy...

Sums it up.
Maybe when you visit, you can read a copy of the satanic verses. You'll be going around in circles then buddy. Just at the end of a noose.

Grayson · 19-10-2018 7:41pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Stone the odd woman to death too but sure no harm, eh?

It's Saudi lite.

To be fair it does seem like a beautiful country that is more open and not as brutal.
There is still brutality, just nothing like Saudi.

It's like comparing China to North Korea. They are both communist and china is bad but it's no north korea.

Zebra3 · 19-10-2018 7:48pm

Grayson wrote: »

It's Saudi lite.

To be fair it does seem like a beautiful country that is more open and not as brutal.
There is still brutality, just nothing like Saudi.

It's like comparing China to North Korea. They are both communist and china is bad but it's no north korea.

I’ve no time for the usual war crimes supporters who want to bomb Iran but there are a huge number of human rights issues there that need to be sorted out.

Neither China nor N Korea are communist.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 19-10-2018 8:42pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

I’ve no time for the usual war crimes supporters who want to bomb Iran but there are a huge number of human rights issues there that need to be usorted out.

Neither China nor N Korea are communist.

Because it’s “never been tried” or some other reason.

Zebra3 · 19-10-2018 8:45pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Because it’s “never been tried” or some other reason.

Unsure of what you're referring to.

markodaly · 19-10-2018 9:53pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Neither China nor N Korea are communist.

Let me guess, neither was the Soviet Union or Cuba or Cambodia...

LOL, apologists for evil tyrannical regimes make me laugh.

Zebra3 · 19-10-2018 9:55pm

markodaly wrote: »

Let me guess, neither was the Soviet Union or Cuba or Cambodia...

LOL, apologists for evil tyrannical regimes make me laugh.

Who is apologising and what are they apologising for?

markodaly · 19-10-2018 9:56pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Unsure of what you're referring to.

No true Scotsman fallacy. You're it.

markodaly · 19-10-2018 10:00pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Who is apologising and what are they apologising for?

Let me guess, you probably identify as a left-leaning socialist, who hates capitalism, America, Israel and the west, but you then deny that ardent Socialist regimes are actually socialist.

Both China and North Korea are Communist. They may not be in the same vein of Cuba or the Soviet Union, but they are still communist and ruled as such by a communist party.

wexie · 19-10-2018 10:02pm

markodaly wrote: »

Both China and North Korea are Communist. They may not be in the same vein of Cuba or the Soviet Union, but they are still communist and ruled as such by a communist party.

Although, it has to be said, in the case of China a communist party with an exceptional understanding of capitalism.

markodaly · 19-10-2018 10:13pm

wexie wrote: »

Although, it has to be said, in the case of China a communist party with an exceptional understanding of capitalism.

Chinese Communism 2.0
They tried the old Marxist $hite for 40 years and all it did was impoverish 1 billion people with 50 more million dead.

Then they looked at what actually worked, and have done a pretty good job of making their country and citizens rich which raised standards of living.

It always amuses me to no end to see internet keyboard warriors proclaim what is or what is not real communism. The best they can do is point to Sweden, which is a free market capitalist economy with a strong social democratic mantra and high tax rates for redistribution.

In other words, 'real' communism has never been tried so we will never really know if it actually works

, but just ignore the dozen or so examples of the past 100 years where it was tried and ended in disaster reach and every time.:D ROFL.

mcmoustache · 19-10-2018 10:51pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The US support of Saudi has existed long before trump and will exist after him. It’s deeply emeshed. Obama was helping them bomb Yemen.

Every US president over the last 100 years has propped up these cnuts and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Choosing the saudis over the Iranians has been one of the many stupid decisions that US foreign policy has made. It's just mad that the west supports the Saudis in that region when they are such a barbaric society. They're just a bunch of primitive folk with money.

Zebra3 · 19-10-2018 10:58pm

markodaly wrote: »

Chinese Communism 2.0
They tried the old Marxist $hite for 40 years and all it did was impoverish 1 billion people with 50 more million dead.

Then they looked at what actually worked, and have done a pretty good job of making their country and citizens rich which raised standards of living.

It always amuses me to no end to see internet keyboard warriors proclaim what is or what is not real communism. The best they can do is point to Sweden, which is a free market capitalist economy with a strong social democratic mantra and high tax rates for redistribution.

In other words, 'real' communism has never been tried so we will never really know if it actually works , but just ignore the dozen or so examples of the past 100 years where it was tried and ended in disaster reach and every time.:D ROFL.

ROFL indeed.

Show me a country that has free market capitalism.

Sweden is certainly not one of them.

mcmoustache · 19-10-2018 11:02pm

FTA69 wrote: »

There's no bars in Iran, there's parties and very wealthy people with mansions etc that might have club nights but no licensed premises. These are often raided too with the attendees arrested and fined. Also you sound like you're describing middle class Tehranis more than the country at large, there's a big difference. The economy is also in the jacks wih huge amounts of money being pumped into Syria to fund Iran's involvement there and massive youth unemployment.

The young people you describe are supremely f*cked off with a theocratic government that throws them in jail for not wearing headscarves.

In the nicest possible sense, it's clear you've never been there. I went for a bit three years ago and it is an amazing, wonderful country. But it's not how you describe.

You're not wrong on this, based on what I've heard from other Iranians. The regime there is strict.

There's one big difference though - Iranians are more tolerant than the people in charge. They're educated and generally not in favour of the theocracy. The Saudis are different. The Leaders like to pretend that they're a modern country but the general population seems to like the head chopping and other barbarism.

I don't agree with the guy claiming that Iran is some Mecca but there is a big difference between their societies.

nthclare · 19-10-2018 11:35pm

Well in a nutshell, I'd prefer to live in Iran rather than Saudi.

A friend of mine was involved in an accident,not his fault but depending on the way the person who drove through the stop signs families conscious and moral compass...

It was his head or go home and never come back...

Fortunately he was forgiven, if they decided to say it like the Queen of hearts.....so would have been it...

He's home and dry.

I know Iran is more brutal than the West, but I'd live there rather than over there....

I agree with a lot of ye but I'm saying Iran isn't as bad as living in the other place.

I didn't mean to wind anyone up.

Sorry for offending anyone....

MayoForSam · 19-10-2018 11:38pm

He got into a fist fight apparently. But no fingers = no fist, right?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-10-2018 12:16am

markodaly wrote: »

Chinese Communism 2.0
They tried the old Marxist $hite for 40 years and all it did was impoverish 1 billion people with 50 more million dead.

Then they looked at what actually worked, and have done a pretty good job of making their country and citizens rich which raised standards of living.

It always amuses me to no end to see internet keyboard warriors proclaim what is or what is not real communism. The best they can do is point to Sweden, which is a free market capitalist economy with a strong social democratic mantra and high tax rates for redistribution.

In other words, 'real' communism has never been tried so we will never really know if it actually works , but just ignore the dozen or so examples of the past 100 years where it was tried and ended in disaster reach and every time.:D ROFL.

The Chinese are hardly hands off neo liberals either. Huge swathes of the economy is government owned, of partially owned abd it’s still planned.

But you are right that communism sucks.

irishproduce · 20-10-2018 12:55am

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1020/1005465-saudi-arabia-admits-khashoggi-dead/

markodaly · 20-10-2018 1:09am

Zebra3 wrote: »

ROFL indeed.

Show me a country that has free market capitalism.

Sweden is certainly not one of them.

I suppose it depends on your definition of free market capitalism. If you define is as some Randian economic philosophy then no, no country has 100% free market capitalism, as they all exist within the confines of the nation-state and its rules and regulations.

However, in the vernacular free market is meant to mean that private individuals and business can operate freely without coercion from the state.

Or as wiki would say.

"

In economics, a free market is an idealized system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and by consumers. In a free market the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, by a price-setting monopoly, or by other authority.

All countries in the EU operate in this system of open markets, supply and demand, with various oversights from the EU and state bodies.

An Irish person or business can operate freely without tariffs or penalties anywhere in the EU. The same applies to Sweden which is very much a free market capitalistic economy, with a strong overseeing state.

So, run off now before you make a fool of yourself.

markodaly · 20-10-2018 1:11am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Chinese are hardly hands off neo liberals either. Huge swathes of the economy is government owned, of partially owned abd it’s still planned.

But you are right that communism sucks.

Yeap, you are correct. China is no neo-liberal economy. It will be interesting to see what the next decade or two holds for them.

markodaly · 20-10-2018 1:23am

mcmoustache wrote: »

Every US president over the last 100 years has propped up these cnuts and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Choosing the saudis over the Iranians has been one of the many stupid decisions that US foreign policy has made. It's just mad that the west supports the Saudis in that region when they are such a barbaric society. They're just a bunch of primitive folk with money.

They had no choice to choose the Hosue of Suad over Iran. You seem to have no idea on what actually happened over there post WWII.

Iran and the US were closer to each other than any other country, but that all changed with the revolution 1979.

Don't forget the cold war either. Realpoltik took over from idealism. Most Americans voters and indeed the State Dept. don't want to have anything to do with Saudi Arabia, but they are kinda stuck with them, as they know that if they disengage entirely from the region, Russia and China will step into the breach and you tell me if that is better than the status quo? It also makes an all-out war between Iran (Shia) and Suadi Arabia (Sunni) much more likely which would make the Syrian conflict look like a brawl at a GAA match.

Remember, Trump's foreign policy mandate was isolationism, which he was castigated for.

FTA69 · 20-10-2018 1:48am

mcmoustache wrote: »

You're not wrong on this, based on what I've heard from other Iranians. The regime there is strict.

There's one big difference though - Iranians are more tolerant than the people in charge. They're educated and generally not in favour of the theocracy. The Saudis are different. The Leaders like to pretend that they're a modern country but the general population seems to like the head chopping and other barbarism.

I don't agree with the guy claiming that Iran is some Mecca but there is a big difference between their societies.

Oh definitely, I wasn't disputing that for a second. Women's rights in Iran for all the massive problems, are far more advanced than Saudi - but at the end of the day it's not exactly a high standard to compare to is it? Iran is one of the best gaffs I've ever been to, but it's not some free for all as your man made it out to be. (Although I did get absolutely wrecked there for days on end at one stage.)

As for the average Saudi? I've honestly met very few of them. The only ones I met were two old men I helped get a bus one day in London. I've never been there, I couldn't comment.

Zebra3 · 20-10-2018 8:06am

markodaly wrote: »

I suppose it depends on your definition of free market capitalism. If you define is as some Randian economic philosophy then no, no country has 100% free market capitalism, as they all exist within the confines of the nation-state and its rules and regulations.

However, in the vernacular free market is meant to mean that private individuals and business can operate freely without coercion from the state.

Or as wiki would say.

"

All countries in the EU operate in this system of open markets, supply and demand, with various oversights from the EU and state bodies.

An Irish person or business can operate freely without tariffs or penalties anywhere in the EU. The same applies to Sweden which is very much a free market capitalistic economy, with a strong overseeing state.

So, run off now before you make a fool of yourself.

LOL galore.

You even admit free market capitalism pretty much doesn’t exist.

It’s either free market capitalism or it’s not.

We live in heavily regulated economies.

Try to open a supermarket tomorrow.

Best of luck to you.

Try to open a telecommunications company tomorrow.

Wonder how that will go?

Sweden. Hmm. Try open up an off license over there.

Free market and free trade are nothing but terms of propaganda.

How can people not like something that’s free?

You might wanna double check who the idiot is, but I doubt you could possibly work it out.

Peatys · 20-10-2018 8:10am

Just have to read the utd thread to see how quickly people will sell their souls for a bit of oil money.

'how can we judge these people while still buying iphones, nike etc '

Gubbermints are just as bad

Sin City · 20-10-2018 9:45am

Looks like he died in a fist fight
who brings a bone saw to a fist fight

Journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in a "fistfight" in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the kingdom has said as it admitted the writer had been slain at the diplomatic post for the first time.

Authorities said 18 Saudi suspects were in custody for his killing and intelligence officials had been fired.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/journalist-jamal-khashoggi-was-killed-in-a-fistfight-in-the-saudi-consulate-in-istanbul-kingdom-claims-37440041.html

Jamal Khashoggi killed in Saudi embassy.

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