Jamal Khashoggi killed in Saudi embassy.

alaimacerc

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

And Bush allowed the bin laden’s to leave the US. Obama escalated the Yemen war by starting it.

Obama embraced the US drone programme, overseeing more strikes in his first year than Bush carried out during his entire presidency. A total of 563 strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms, compared to 57 strikes under Bush. Between 384 and 807 civilians were killed in those countries, according to reports logged by the Bureau.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush

The problem is America.

The problems with America aren't hard to find, but you're kinda conflating all things Yemeni there. There's the airstrikes against AQAP, and there's the civil war, which is predominantly a North/South, Houthi/Hadi, Shi'a/Sunni thing.

alaimacerc

Ipso wrote: »

As mentioned above, there is some serious mental gymnastics going on with the Saudis, his muslim ban didn't include the Saudis which is where the 911 hijackers were from.

To say "mental gymnastics" is to to credit him with a little too much cerebral agility. Do the thing he wanted to do, yesbutnobut extensively, then say "look! over there! an islamist immigrant Hispanic squirrel!" is about the level of it.

alaimacerc

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You know that trump inherited most of those wars right?

I speak of the future wars of John Bolton's fevered rhetoric and over-excitable imagination.

Of the main two he's "inherited" -- after much back-seat driving during the Obama presidency utterly in contradiction to his current actions -- one might see as being legitimately connected to 9/11, the other is more of a matter of the Bush family drama.

Franz Von Peppercorn

alaimacerc wrote: »

The problems with America aren't hard to find, but you're kinda conflating all things Yemeni there. There's the airstrikes against AQAP, and there's the civil war, which is predominantly a North/South, Houthi/Hadi, Shi'a/Sunni thing.

How could I have conflated any of that? I mentioned merely the drone warfare in response to someone who said that trump escalated the drone attacks. If you think this administration is using drones in a different manner and with different targets to Obama’s admin then I’m all ears.

I made no reference to whom or what was targeted. American is definitely refuelling Saudi planes, and the statistics on where or what the drones are attacking is limited. Lots of civilians for sure.

And of course, in theory anyhow, the US can tell them to stop.

BattleCorp

I'm not sure if the pics are real but a mate sent me pics of body pieces that are supposed to be Khashoggi. The face was cut away from the skull. Fistfight me hole. x

Franz Von Peppercorn

alaimacerc wrote: »

I speak of the future wars of John Bolton's fevered rhetoric and over-excitable imagination.

Of the main two he's "inherited" -- after much back-seat driving during the Obama presidency utterly in contradiction to his current actions -- one might see as being legitimately connected to 9/11, the other is more of a matter of the Bush family drama.

Christ that’s some apologetics. You guys seem to
think that America veers from being a perfect nation run by angels, to a crazed despotism run by devils. In reality the president doesn’t largely matter. It’s a militaristic oligarchy.

Bolton is a loon for sure and trump is marginally worse than Obama. Maybe. Hillary would be another warlord. No pacifist has a chance.

Ash.J.Williams

goat2 wrote: »

According to latest news ,
Trump believes that he died in a fist fight.
He had been visiting the embassy to collect papers to end his existing marriage and to get married to the lady that waited outside for him.
She waited about 10 hours for him to come out of Consulate, and then got worried.

a good wife

goat2

JohnMc1 wrote: »

We should leave the Middle east to their own devices and let nature take its course.

I am inclined to agree with you, after watching the news with past few days, it is one new story after another, all differing in their stories.
The only ones that know the truth are the people that did it,

wexie

wexie wrote: »

But whereas if he had been 'some Turkish reporter*' it would have taken a few days to get over the 'outrage' I think now it might actually take a few weeks.

See? All forgotten, back to business

Odhinn

wexie wrote: »

See? All forgotten, back to business

I doubt theres going to be any great consequences over this for the US Saudi relationship. Except maybe a private bit of advice to be more discrete in the future.

Dinarius

I think that it will just fade away.

We are in a post-accountability, post-due-process age.

Maybe not in my lifetime (I'm 58), but I suspect that for a third time in 100 years, Ireland will be glad it's an isolated island off the west coast of Europe.

USA is going to the dogs (civil war anyone? I could see it happening.)

China is the new king on the block and utterly devoid of conscience and accountability.

Almost the whole of South America is screwed - Venezuela should be the new Norway with its having the largest oil reserves on the planet. Yet, 6000 people are leaving daily. Why?

North Africa is also screwed.

The rich folk from the northern hemisphere buying up properties in New Zealand may be using them sooner than they think.

Happy days.

D.

Ps. And closer to home, ask yourselves this; given the TOTAL lack of accountability regarding the Gardai after industrial scale fake blood tests and speeding fines. What would happen if a Khasoggi-type incident were to happen here? If someone were to die in custody? I'm guessing most would say, "Oh, a death would be total different to a shed load of parking-fines. Of course the guilty would be held to account." Yes, I'd like to think that too. But, would they? And who would hold them to account?

irishproduce

This is back in the news today. US released I formation that they know it was the Saudi Prince who ordered it.
Did it ever come out how they moved out his body without detection?

Yurt2

Reports that the US and the State Department are considering canceling arms deals with Saudi. Pretty extraordinary that they're even talking that way, although such deals are so lucrative you'd wonder would they ever do it.

If they did, it would put serious pressure on the Al-Yamamah arms deal with the UK. If anyone hasn't read into it, it's worth doing so. Ridiculously huge decades-long arms and military aerospace deal that has been the source of fairly open corruption in both countries, and is the reason the British don't say boo anything Saudi does.

feargale

irishproduce wrote: »

This is back in the news today. US released I formation that they know it was the Saudi Prince who ordered it.
Did it ever come out how they moved out his body without detection?

Didn't they dissolve his body in acid?

Hangdogroad

feargale wrote: »

Didn't they dissolve his body in acid?

He was dismembered with a bone saw in the embassy. Audio of the whole thing was recorded by the Turks who had the place bugged.

Montage of Feck

The Turks are taking a far more active role in world affairs, having a third nation now vying for supremacy over the Islamic world cant be good for stability.

Zebra3

Amazing to see Biden get all jumpy over this on the day he himself broke international law by murdering twenty-two people.

Imagine journalists actually did their job and called this sort of hypocrisy out. Might put pressure on for a prosecution.

Pawwed Rig

Montage of Feck wrote: »

The Turks are taking a far more active role in world affairs, having a third nation now vying for supremacy over the Islamic world cant be good for stability.

Anyone is better than Saudi Arabia imo. They are one of the worst regimes in the world and oil is the only reason they were not all lined up against a wall years ago.

Dinarius

As one of her first acts as prime minister, Theresa May went to SA to help secure an arms deal for BAE Systems.

Theresa May’s husband’s investment firm is a major shareholder in BAE.

The slaughter in Yemen would not be possible without British and US.

Arms can be stored, but not forever. And, if you’re not using them, you have no reason to buy more. So, outside of the odd test explosion, if you’re not committing genocide, you’re wasting money. Just ask MSL.

D.

MadYaker

Zebra3 wrote: »

Amazing to see Biden get all jumpy over this on the day he himself broke international law by murdering twenty-two people.

Imagine journalists actually did their job and called this sort of hypocrisy out. Might put pressure on for a prosecution.

Which 22 people did Biden personally murder? Can't say I heard about that on the news.

Zebra3

MadYaker wrote: »

Which 22 people did Biden personally murder? Can't say I heard about that on the news.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-strike-biden-us-death-toll-b1808097.html

goat2

irishproduce wrote: »

This is back in the news today. US released I formation that they know it was the Saudi Prince who ordered it.
Did it ever come out how they moved out his body without detection?

One of the planes got out of airport without being inspected, and when those guys flew in for a few hours, it seemed funny that their suitcases were very big for a few hours stay, not even an overnight stay, and there is the news, they had a large scale pitas oven, grill, barbecue thing that could reach thousands of degrees heat that would burn anything to ashes in minuet's, take your pick

irishproduce

goat2 wrote: »

One of the planes got out of airport without being inspected, and when those guys flew in for a few hours, it seemed funny that their suitcases were very big for a few hours stay, not even an overnight stay, and there is the news, they had a large scale pitas oven, grill, barbecue thing that could reach thousands of degrees heat that would burn anything to ashes in minuet's, take your pick

You making that second one up? Genuine question.

Ash.J.Williams

Fact , also they ordered a tonne of meat and cooked it all in the under floor tandoori so there was no trace left after wards

The_Dave

goat2 wrote: »

One of the planes got out of airport without being inspected, and when those guys flew in for a few hours, it seemed funny that their suitcases were very big for a few hours stay, not even an overnight stay, and there is the news, they had a large scale pitas oven, grill, barbecue thing that could reach thousands of degrees heat that would burn anything to ashes in minuet's, take your pick

Did they not leave on a Saudi jet i.e. government property so they could not be searched unless the Saudis agreed to it?

smurfjed

government property so they could not be searched unless the Saudis agreed to it?

Nope, commercially chartered aircraft.

The_Dave

smurfjed wrote: »

Nope, commercially chartered aircraft.

Crikey:eek:

Ash.J.Williams

in the documentary "dissident" they juxtapose all the horror of the murder with trump playing it down and talking up the saudis, he comes across as very stupid considering the CIA were taking it seriously

silverharp

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

in the documentary "dissident" they juxtapose all the horror of the murder with trump playing it down and talking up the saudis, he comes across as very stupid considering the CIA were taking it seriously

Biden is following Trump's approach on it.

goat2

irishproduce wrote: »

You making that second one up? Genuine question.

The second one is not a make up, one of the news channels carried that story when his body could not be found, and they were coming up with plausible explanation for the fire pit and plane were the two best, they had been searching wooded area, but nothing there