Advice: Become a teacher

Treppen · 14-09-2019 1:50pm

shesty wrote: »

If you had worked in construction, particularly through the recession, you would not even think of where you were on the wage scale before you decided to change career.

It wasn't just how great a job teaching was.It's because they take your whole life in construction, and you can't lose your job in teaching (unless you put serious effort into it), the way you can in an instant in construction.

Construction is tough no doubt. But when it's not a bust time and you've a good name people are throwing money at you.

But when economies go bust some people would be happy if teachers were let go too... not realising that children still need an education.

Treppen · 14-09-2019 1:58pm

myshirt wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking maternity leave. It's paying her the full wage for the time off AND giving that level of holidays on top of it. And the wage itself. Teachers are way overpaid. Way, way overpaid. Something is seriously wrong if you can work no more than 5 months in 5 years and get paid a full wage plus pension when the country barely had a washer in it's arse pocket. And that wasn't even good enough for them, they went on to f"ck over their younger members to keep the gravy train going. It's insane and not something which is financially prudent. It's pure thuggery from the unions.

The three months off school was originally designed so kids could help on the farm. How outdated is that?
Good Friday was a day off so country people could travel home as it took about 5 hours to get to Mayo from Dublin at one point. Again how dated is that? 30 grand straight out of college, or 50 grand on a FTE basis, plus pension. We don't teach finance in this country at an early age for a reason. But we do teach finance at some stage, and the game is up for these f*ckers in the next 10 years as the younger people they screwed over filter through.

Examine why Trump got in in the States. Without any deep analysis the underlying theme is the same. Young people disenfranchised and locked out of economic participation by the older generation and those pulling the levers of power. In the States it's certain people. In Ireland it's the unions and the public sector generation in the 45+ age category today.

Actually it's not 30k straight out of college but if all you know about is the pay scale then you should really talk to a few teachers. This thread is like going to a crap clairvoyant.

But anyway, cut to the chase.
What do you think teachers should be paid... Give a number and Payscale over 4 decades?

Treppen · 14-09-2019 5:42pm

Are we done now?

Any questions?

MrMusician18 · 14-09-2019 8:12pm

emilymemily wrote: »

If its so good why dont you become a teacher?

:rolleyes:

myshirt · 14-09-2019 8:32pm

emilymemily wrote: »

If its so good why dont you become a teacher?

You are looking at it through the entirely wrong prism.
Unlike the scumbags in the union movement decent Irish people don't get off on f"cking others over or look to steal a living on the back of the upcoming generation.

There is loads of money to be made in many places, but ethics is the issue. Teaching is a noble profession, but personally I couldn't be a teacher and get paid what they are paid for so little work. The guilt would overwhelm me. I don't say that tongue in cheek. I mean it. This isn't all about the self. When you ask a question like if it's so good why don't you do it yourself, you are grabbing the completely wrong end of the stick.

What you have with teaching is a bunch of scumbags within the union movement, a couple of scumbags in the profession itself, but a large majority that are complicit via their silence / taking the paycheque / life circumstances. Right in the mix you have some very decent people doing a noble job, and you have young teachers who are often better qualified than the older ones, but not getting a job. To answer your earlier question I'd cut their pensions almost completely, and I'd work them during the summer. I'd freeze their wages and I'd actively hire the younger teachers, albeit at no more than 25 grand a piece but with performance bonuses as they progress through a career.

byhookorbycrook · 14-09-2019 9:49pm

myshirt wrote: »

Right in the mix you have some very decent people doing a noble job, and you have young teachers who are often better qualified than the older ones, but not getting a job. To answer your earlier question I'd cut their pensions almost completely, and I'd work them during the summer. I'd freeze their wages and I'd actively hire the younger teachers, albeit at no more than 25 grand a piece but with performance bonuses as they progress through a career.

I've paid into my pension since I was 20 and make no excuse to anyone who envies what I will eventually get as a return on this.Very few 20 year olds start a pension , saying they couldn't afford it, I had no choice.

Good luck finding any graduate who will spend 4 years in college for €25k after.

How do you propose to rate "performance?"

MrMusician18 · 14-09-2019 10:57pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I've paid into my pension since I was 20 and make no excuse to anyone who envies what I will eventually get as a return on this.Very few 20 year olds start a pension , saying they couldn't afford it, I had no choice.

Good luck finding any graduate who will spend 4 years in college for €25k after.

How do you propose to rate "performance?"

Underperformance should be relatively easy to identify, at least it was in my day. In secondary, I was in a mixed ability class, the top students shouldn't have needed grinds in English when they were excelling in other subjects. Just by canvassing the students on what subjects they were receiving grinds in would point to underperformance of certain teachers.

I think when you have the top 50% getting extra outside tuition and those that are not really lagging would point to an issue with the teacher. The teachers know themselves who the ****e ones are in their school.

Teachers won't stand up and identify the under performers though. Sure they threw the NQTs under the bus to protect themselves.

emilymemily · 15-09-2019 3:57am

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I've paid into my pension since I was 20 and make no excuse to anyone who envies what I will eventually get as a return on this.Very few 20 year olds start a pension , saying they couldn't afford it, I had no choice.

Good luck finding any graduate who will spend 4 years in college for €25k after.

How do you propose to rate "performance?"

It's actually 6 years + additional qualifications. 4 year Undergrad and 2 year masters in Primary or post primary education, most teachers these days have completed additional postgrad diplomas and masters in areas like SEN, ABA psychology, Irish, English and additional masters in education alongside their undergrad and teaching qualification.
Teachers sub for years before getting permanency and don't get paid for Summers or holidays, by the time they get permanency they well deserve the wages they get after putting 10+ years into the profession.

myshirt · 15-09-2019 4:17pm

Sher accountants came out at 12-15 grand a year during the same period, and you typically have a much better quality candidate there.

If any teacher had a problem with the 23k I'd offer them, then I'd introduce college fees payback. If they work in the State for 5 years (23k to an eventual 30k) they can get a discount on the fees to pay back. If not then they pay the full amount. It's a global financial world; dare they try sting the state that bad credit will follow them around.

Trust me, byhookorbycrook anything you've thought of you can be sure the rest of us have an answer. Your pension gone, and the new starts on no more than there or there abouts 23k. It will happen. The game is up. Scoff all you want. Pure thuggery from the union movement.

Insect Overlord · 15-09-2019 4:57pm

myshirt wrote: »

Trust me, byhookorbycrook anything you've thought of you can be sure the rest of us have an answer. Your pension gone, and the new starts on no more than there or there abouts 23k. It will happen. The game is up. Scoff all you want. Pure thuggery from the union movement.

When did you turn into such a ruthless fascist?

Treppen · 15-09-2019 11:55pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

When did you turn into such a ruthless fascist?

I think it's just projecting their own sad life.

Treppen · 16-09-2019 12:00am

myshirt wrote: »

...
but personally I couldn't be a teacher...

In a nutshell

Treppen · 16-09-2019 8:34am

myshirt wrote: »

Sher accountants came out at 12-15 grand a year during the same period, and you typically have a much better quality candidate there.

If any teacher had a problem with the 23k I'd offer them, then I'd introduce college fees payback. If they work in the State for 5 years (23k to an eventual 30k) they can get a discount on the fees to pay back. If not then they pay the full amount. It's a global financial world; dare they try sting the state that bad credit will follow them around.

Trust me, byhookorbycrook anything you've thought of you can be sure the rest of us have an answer. Your pension gone, and the new starts on no more than there or there abouts 23k. It will happen. The game is up. Scoff all you want. Pure thuggery from the union movement.

Would you be happy then?

Abbey127 · 08-03-2020 5:50pm

o1s1n wrote: »

If you actually boil it down to hours of work versus pay it's not bad at all.

Take a 60k private sector worker versus a 38k teacher.

60,000 a year is 5,000 a month, for 12 months.

38,000 a year is 3,166 a month over 12 months, however they're not working 12 months.

Remove the summer holidays and it's 4,222 a month for the 9 months worked.

If you started removing other holidays, like mid term/term breaks, not to mention 2:30pm finishes, it would just go up and up.

Could easily spend the off time doing another job if you really wanted to earn more.

Alot of people dont make 60k let alone after tax , if are making 60k a year would be getting 100k before tax so 60k after tax is only 3,495 a month and 41,937 a year I would definitely pick a job I love over money and be dreading going to work .

Crock Rock · 08-03-2020 6:22pm

I feel the same way as the OP. It is indeed a very cushy job. You also retire for life on your final salary.

Before anyone asks me why I didn't become a teacher, I couldn't afford the hDip when I graduated now I have the money but I have a family and a house to pay for so can't take the two years out.

Graces7 · 08-03-2020 6:24pm

Geuze wrote: »

Outside cities, the wages are ok.

But you won't get a permanent FT job after graduation.

Also, and this is the main point, if secondary, you have to face teenagers every day.

You are part social-worker, part psychologist.

The discipline issues can be serious.

I taught several decades ago in England in girls grammar schools , when pupils were well behaved and discipline problems few; except maybe last period Fridays!

When the system changed to comprehensive with huge numbers in schools that changed. And today's teenagers are very different.

Teachers now deserve medals. They really do. It is far far more than imparting skills and knowledge but that has to be done too.

KiKi III · 08-03-2020 6:27pm

Teachers work pretty hard during term time for very average money. Overall, with the holidays and pension etc, I’d say it works out as a pretty sweet deal but I do think they have a tough job.

My pet peeve with teachers is that they often refuse to acknowledge all the benefits they get compared with private sector workers.

They don’t seem to understand that there are many jobs where you’re expected to put extra hours in at the weekend or in the evening.

Crock Rock · 08-03-2020 6:32pm

Their starting salary of €34k is only for 9 months work.

So it's equivalent to earning roughly €45k.

Abbey127 · 08-03-2020 6:40pm

99problems1 wrote: »

Yep.

"we have to deal with cranky parents."

People on minimum wage in retail have to deal with just as bad if not worse cases. That's the thing I'm talking about, no real world experience.

Teachers think they're the only ones faced with adversity. They think everyone getting on great without fuss is how things are expected to be and a parent complaining is some awful experience.

Imagine the lads in Eir or Virgin media customer service and you'll know about difficult customers then.

You can always just hang up on customers lol happens all the time chance of getting same person again is slim .

Graces7 · 09-03-2020 6:04am

KiKi III wrote: »

Teachers work pretty hard during term time for very average money. Overall, with the holidays and pension etc, I’d say it works out as a pretty sweet deal but I do think they have a tough job.

My pet peeve with teachers is that they often refuse to acknowledge all the benefits they get compared with private sector workers.

They don’t seem to understand that there are many jobs where you’re expected to put extra hours in at the weekend or in the evening.[/QUOTE]

I well recall many evenings spent marking work... preparing lessons..Please reverse what I have bolded! Back at you!

mariaalice · 09-03-2020 9:09am

Crock Rock wrote: »

I feel the same way as the OP. It is indeed a very cushy job. You also retire for life on your final salary.

Before anyone asks me why I didn't become a teacher, I couldn't afford the hDip when I graduated now I have the money but I have a family and a house to pay for so can't take the two years out.

Interestingly you have set yourself up with a fantasy of how fabulous it would be if only, while simultaneously giving yourself an excuse why you will never do it.

It seems to be something about human nature to fantasise that paradise is around the corner.

Crock Rock · 09-03-2020 10:06am

mariaalice wrote: »

Interestingly you have set yourself up with a fantasy of how fabulous it would be if only, while simultaneously giving yourself an excuse why you will never do it.

It seems to be something about human nature to fantasise that paradise is around the corner.

I didn't give an excuse why I'll never do it, I gave an excuse why I CAN'T do it.

I made that quite clear.

corks finest · 09-03-2020 1:16pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

I didn't give an excuse why I'll never do it, I gave an excuse why I CAN'T do it.

I made that quite clear.

It's a steady ,clean job,and if one is really interested in teaching the job satisfaction must be unreal,my 17 yr old son is gearing towards secondary school work, unlike his dad at 61 ( crocked from construction) he will be relatively young and fit when he retires , I'm still scraping work and will have to carry on as long as the body holds out but not many painters last beyond 65

christy G · 09-03-2020 10:20pm

How many holidays do teachers actually get ? I know its alot more then most jobs , but If i use up my holidays i just take unpaid leave and go on a hoilday for a week or two i dont mind not been paid if I need a hoilday il just go on one, lucky in a way that taking an unpaid week off here and there doesnt affect my salary as I have a side business.

Former Former · 09-03-2020 10:27pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

I feel the same way as the OP. It is indeed a very cushy job. You also retire for life on your final salary.

After 40 years' service, you retire on half your final salary.

For anyone who joined after 2013, it's a lot less generous.

A major part of the resentment people have against teachers is ignorance.

Edit : I see that guy was just a troll. Carry on.

09-03-2020 10:37pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

I didn't give an excuse why I'll never do it, I gave an excuse why I CAN'T do it.

I made that quite clear.

When my friend was 20/21, Her father did his leaving cert, he had 5 kids, my friend was the eldest. He then went to 3rd level & on to become a teacher.
He was a driver with Dublin bus before that.
It was very tough for him & the family but he did it, because he wanted to do it.
He didn't make excuses

Geuze · 09-03-2020 11:16pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

You also retire for life on your final salary.

This statement is false.

A typical teacher retiring now retires on 50% of final salary, if they have 40 years paid into pension.

Geuze · 09-03-2020 11:18pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

I feel the same way as the OP. It is indeed a very cushy job.

I invite you to sit on front of teenagers every day for weeks on end, with all their issues/hormones, and then have to face their parents.

Come back to us then, and tell us is it "cushy".

Geuze · 09-03-2020 11:19pm

corks finest wrote: »

It's a steady ,clean job,and if one is really interested in teaching the job satisfaction must be unreal,

It's strange then that Boards and AAM are full of teachers signing up to AVCs to retire early????

KiKi III · 09-03-2020 11:34pm

Geuze wrote: »

This statement is false.

A typical teacher retiring now retires on 50% of final salary, if they have 40 years paid into pension.

My mam decided to take early retirement from teaching when she realised there was not a substantial difference (around 20%) between her salary and what she’d get in her pension.

She also got a hefty lump sum.

Advice: Become a teacher

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