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Advice: Become a teacher
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James Bond Junior wrote: »The union can't remove them. That is the board of management's job or the department of education. And no I haven't as I have never worked with somebody incompetent enough to warrant being removed. Some have been lazy but still do their jobs as required, just to the bare minimum. Just like many people whom I worked with in the private sector, every job has lazy articles who aren't removed.
You are of course aware(at least I hope you are being a teacher) that it is entirely because of the unions that teachers will not get removed regardless of how incompetent/inept they are. If I who has no connection with teaching have come across several incompetent/disinterested teachers then you are stretching it by saying that you have never come across it. It's the reluctance of teachers to admit that there is a problem that pisses people off.0 -
Right now in England you will get a bursary of £15000 to train as a teacher in some subjects. Paid to train as a teacher...
That's what happens when a profession is ruined.
Teaching in Ireland is still a good job, and is attracting bright, energetic young people. It should be kept that way.
In saying that, as a teacher myself (not young anymore though) the lazy incompetent teachers do exist, but are not as common anymore. School in the 1980s was very different from now.
It is hard to get rid of teachers, I accept that, but modern parents and modern kids will complain readily if they're not been taught properly (and rightly so)
Facing that criticism constantly would make a job difficult for anyone. Many resign themselves.0 -
mayo londoner wrote: »My girlfriend is a primary school teacher, and 3 of my best mates are secondary teachers (also in a whatsapp group with them). I have lived with two of these down through the years and **** me, the sense of entitlement astonishes me. they genuinely have no grasp of reality. I regularly have arguements with them when they start whinging about their work conditions, bear in mind I worked in UL for 4 years and never had it as easy. One of them finishes at 11 on both Wednesdays and Fridays and is constantly on the piss during the week, no shortage of money. Another one of them that I lived with would be home by 2ish on a normal day, have his food shop done, dinner made, 5k run done, showered, dinner eaten and a nap by the time I get home at 5.30 (I live down the road from office thankfully). I can count on one hand how many times I've seen either of the teachers I've lived with bring home work with them, and by christ they let you know about it when they do as if its a major accomplishment.
They also seem oblivious to the fact that EVERYONE payes taxes, not just teachers as someone else alluded to, I actually laughed in one of their faces when they've tried to use this to defend themselves. Not to mention the old chesnut of having to do a degree to be a teacher, again majority of professions require this.
Not to mention being ridicuously well paid for they hours they work pro-rata Say 33 weeks x 25hrs per week (say 22hrs teaching time and 3hrs for coursework for example) for a 38k starting salary for secondary school teachers. Thats the equivalent of someone in the private sector working about 23 weeks, let that sink in.....................
And the absolute scutter they talk about when threatning to go on strike about this Equal Pay for Equal Work nonsense. I was working in UL when the salary scales were adjusted and I was on the lower pay scale, but guess what, I signed up to it when I accepted the job, country was in the **** with recession, get on with it for **** sake. Have great sympathy for nurses when they go on strike as they deserve every penny and more as their pay and working conditions are atrocious, teachers can **** right off, biggest shower of spoofers going. Also never shy of letting the world know when they are on their holidays either despite their constant moaning about 'poor pay', give me a break.
And before I get the usual teacher retort 'If it's so good then why don't you become a teacher' well the answer is firstly, I can't as nobody in their right mind could afford two years out of work to study Hibernia living in this country with current bills and expenses, not to mention the time. And maybe, just maybe some people just don't want to be teachers, they want to be astronauts instead.
The tax thing is weird. Had a relative (teacher) moan to me about earning less than 3K a month. Shirley shome misteak, says I, though you'd be on 50K plus at your age. Transpires that the 3K was her take-home pay. She didn't actually know what her gross salary was. Also didn't realise that her tax allowances were being used by her husband so her nett was down on what it would have been if she were single. Of course she knew about every other deduction - just not tax. I thought it was a fascinating insight into how divorced some teachers are from the real world.
Wonder what would happen if the revenue had a clamp-down on grinds? :-)0 -
moycullen14 wrote: »The tax thing is weird. Had a relative (teacher) moan to me about earning less than 3K a month. Shirley shome misteak, says I, though you'd be on 50K plus at your age. Transpires that the 3K was her take-home pay. She didn't actually know what her gross salary was. Also didn't realise that her tax allowances were being used by her husband so her nett was down on what it would have been if she were single. Of course she knew about every other deduction - just not tax. I thought it was a fascinating insight into how divorced some teachers are from the real world.
Wonder what would happen if the revenue had a clamp-down on grinds? :-)
Hope she doesn't teach accounting.0 -
If teachers got paid only for the hours they worked then they'd be on sh1t money as teaching is essentially part time job. You have to strike a balance between recognising that yes they get loads of time off, but if you want to attract graduates into the profession you have to pay them a full time wage. Hence the fact that per hour those in education get paid the highest hourly rate for time worked - https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq12019finalq22019preliminaryestimates/
There are some Principals on over €100k a year, I can't find any recent data but there were loads a few years ago - https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hundreds-of-secondary-teachers-on-100k-29292461.html So there is the potential to earn good money.0 -
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I have no problem with people making extra money tax free once they pay on their main salary. Its the ***** that wont work at all that I detestmoycullen14 wrote: »The tax thing is weird. Had a relative (teacher) moan to me about earning less than 3K a month. Shirley shome misteak, says I, though you'd be on 50K plus at your age. Transpires that the 3K was her take-home pay. She didn't actually know what her gross salary was. Also didn't realise that her tax allowances were being used by her husband so her nett was down on what it would have been if she were single. Of course she knew about every other deduction - just not tax. I thought it was a fascinating insight into how divorced some teachers are from the real world.
Wonder what would happen if the revenue had a clamp-down on grinds? :-)0 -
griffin100 wrote: »If teachers got paid only for the hours they worked then they'd be on sh1t money as teaching is essentially part time job. You have to strike a balance between recognising that yes they get loads of time off, but if you want to attract graduates into the profession you have to pay them a full time wage. Hence the fact that per hour those in education get paid the highest hourly rate for time worked - https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq12019finalq22019preliminaryestimates/
There are some Principals on over €100k a year, I can't find any recent data but there were loads a few years ago - https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hundreds-of-secondary-teachers-on-100k-29292461.html So there is the potential to earn good money.
Why don't they work during the summer then? They won't, that's why.0 -
99problems1 wrote: »Go to the private sector and you won't last long. Sure if you could never get go and guaranteed salary increases every year what motivation is there?
What a load of tripe. People sitting on their holes all day up and down the country and around the world in offices doing little of anything all day and getting paid for it.0 -
moycullen14 wrote: »The tax thing is weird. Had a relative (teacher) moan to me about earning less than 3K a month. Shirley shome misteak, says I, though you'd be on 50K plus at your age. Transpires that the 3K was her take-home pay. She didn't actually know what her gross salary was. Also didn't realise that her tax allowances were being used by her husband so her nett was down on what it would have been if she were single. Of course she knew about every other deduction - just not tax. I thought it was a fascinating insight into how divorced some teachers are from the real world.
Wonder what would happen if the revenue had a clamp-down on grinds? :-)
Its the only one group of employees I've ever come across who quote their salaries as net, and vast majority I've met say they don't understand tax. But yet they claim that they are highly educated, only the best of points got them into teaching, etc etc. Revenue have some very simple helpsheets and there are a miriade of online calculators to use to work out tax.0 -
@realdanbreen - im pretty sure he works part time in a hotel lobby/bar?! should've studied in school no?
anyway,
i just want to say: 99problems - if you're on such a good salary why are you moaning? why would someone well off in a good job even bother moaning about other peoples life choices?
i'll tell you this , im not a teacher, but i do work in the public sector and i work 3 days a week and my salary is 35000.
different strokes for different folks.
or for your outlook: "you win some, you lose some".
give it a rest.0 -
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moycullen14 wrote: »The tax thing is weird. Had a relative (teacher) moan to me about earning less than 3K a month. Shirley shome misteak, says I, though you'd be on 50K plus at your age. Transpires that the 3K was her take-home pay. She didn't actually know what her gross salary was. Also didn't realise that her tax allowances were being used by her husband so her nett was down on what it would have been if she were single. Of course she knew about every other deduction - just not tax. I thought it was a fascinating insight into how divorced some teachers are from the real world.
Wonder what would happen if the revenue had a clamp-down on grinds? :-)
I also know of a teacher moaning their monthly salary was only €2400 a month or something and how much of a mortgage came out of it.
Since they get paid fortnightly at €1200, they thought their monthly pay was €2400...when it was actually €2600.
Maybe if the Government give teachers lessons how to convert fortnightly income to monthly and how outgoings such as mortgage and car loans are monthly might head off the next inevitable strike !!0 -
This thread is all sorts of ridiculousness.
Some things to think about:
Why give teachers a set pay scale at all? In any profession in the free market/private sector if there is an oversupply of labour, than that professions market worth is less than before. IE there is now an absolute glut of qualified teachers yet places have not increased much. So begs the question why should the taxpayer pay them so much when they could easily be had for cheaper?
Why should PS workers have this ever increasing salary (increments & uncosted/not paid for - defined benefit pension) advatange at all since their pay is taken from private sector workers who the govt does not protect?
Why are teachers not working during the summer months? Children haven't been needed to take in the harvest in some time.
Why have teachers complain that class sizes are >30 when there are so many of them. Surely we could half class sizes AND employ twice as many teachers. Its a win-win for our childrens education and the tax-payer and now new teachers would have permanent jobs. Of course we could also simply reduce their pay so the tax payer wouldnt be fleeced. And if any teachers were unhappy with the new arrangements they could resign and seek employment in the private sector or teach abroad. Plenty will take their place.
Why must teachers have to be fluent in Irish? Is it because the unions wanted to minimize competition from immigrant teachers and maintain a closed shop?
Bonus Q:Why are teachers so over represented in politics?0 -
Private sector!!!
Teaching my class about SRCOP and tax today. Half the class had parents in the trade and self employed.
They literally boasted that their dads tell them they don't pay any tax cos their accountant works it... Each quoted what their daddies told them.
"Get a good accountant son and you'll never pay tax"
"I only had to pay 20€ in tax last year"
" Tax is for eejits"
" Here's a company phone /iPad /laptop son, I'll just put it through the business".
"My dad brings us on holidays to Disneyland while he goes on a business course for a day, so our accommodation is paid for"
Private sector are well represented in politics too!
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Care to address any of my points Treppen or are you just going to para phrase anecdotes from school children?0
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Posts like this are worrying.This thread is all sorts of ridiculousness.
Some things to think about:
Why give teachers a set pay scale at all? In any profession in the free market/private sector if there is an oversupply of labour, than that professions market worth is less than before. IE there is now an absolute glut of qualified teachers yet places have not increased much. So begs the question why should the taxpayer pay them so much when they could easily be had for cheaper?
Why should PS workers have this ever increasing salary (increments & uncosted/not paid for - defined benefit pension) advatange at all since their pay is taken from private sector workers who the govt does not protect?
Why are teachers not working during the summer months? Children haven't been needed to take in the harvest in some time.
Why have teachers complain that class sizes are >30 when there are so many of them. Surely we could half class sizes AND employ twice as many teachers. Its a win-win for our childrens education and the tax-payer and now new teachers would have permanent jobs. Of course we could also simply reduce their pay so the tax payer wouldnt be fleeced. And if any teachers were unhappy with the new arrangements they could resign and seek employment in the private sector or teach abroad. Plenty will take their place.
Why must teachers have to be fluent in Irish? Is it because the unions wanted to minimize competition from immigrant teachers and maintain a closed shop?
Bonus Q:Why are teachers so over represented in politics?0 -
C'mon now Kippy, surely you can muster some sort of rebuttal?0
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Not even a counter argument then. I see. Well if you're not up to discussing it or simply don't have what it takes to debate, feel free to not comment on the thread.0
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Care to address any of my points Treppen or are you just going to para phrase anecdotes from school children?
Sure lets entertain your blue sky mullings.. you really should talk to some teachers about the profession though before you make general sweeping statements.
Why give teachers a set pay scale at all?
The "set pay scale " will always be a myth when teachers are getting a pro rata of that.
e.g. I was on a pro rata + temp contract of this "pay scale" for 10 years before CID.In any profession in the free market/private sector if there is an oversupply of labour, than that professions market worth is less than before.
Dunno what you're inferring here.
Is there an oversupply of teaching Labour?
Is there an undersupply?
I think if you talk to teachers, the answer is neither.
But following your logic... because there is an undersupply of nurses (apparently, I'm happy to be corrected) would you advocate they be paid more now (compared to nurses who started a year ago)?
Also in the case of public sector workers do you really want to be waiting for your kids to get that maths teacher ....once they increase the maths teacher wages in the next budget... and then decrease the English teachers wages because of an over supply!IE there is now an absolute glut of qualified teachers yet places have not increased much.
You'll need a source for that definitive statement.So begs the question why should the taxpayer pay them so much when they could easily be had for cheaper?
Do they pay them so much?
I think 60k after 30 years aint excessive (not to mention the low wages at the start ).
How much do you think they should be paid... (leaving aside the pro rata temp contracts issue).Why should PS workers have this ever increasing salary (increments & uncosted/not paid for -
So you'd pay teachers by what... the amout of H1's their class gets?....defined benefit pension) ...
You know about the changes to the pension scheme?advatange at all since their pay is taken from private sector workers who the govt does not protect?
You kind of want to protect public sector workers, so you have a hospital to go to and a school to babysit your kids.
But if you're advocating that the government protect private sector workers to then lets hear your proposals.Why are teachers not working during the summer months? Children haven't been needed to take in the harvest in some time.
Well if you want to pay me more to work for Summer then ya I'm all for that.
I do think kids need a break during the Summer though.Why have teachers complain that class sizes are >30 when there are so many of them. Surely we could half class sizes AND employ twice as many teachers.
And what... build twice the amount of schools... or maybe just teach them in the broom cupboards.
And wait.... are you saying that you could employ twice the amount of teachers by halving their wages? You serious?
Are you high?Its a win-win for our children's education and the tax-payer and now new teachers would have permanent jobs .
YA sure, permanent jobs of 15k a year. Are you related to Eddie Hobbs or something?Of course we could also simply reduce their pay so the tax payer wouldnt be fleeced.
Of course.And if any teachers were unhappy with the new arrangements they could resign and seek employment in the private sector or teach abroad. Plenty will take their place.
oh so a revolving door like the UK ...plenty to take their place too, as long as they keep believing the **** spun here by experts.
Different debate there ted.Why must teachers have to be fluent in Irish?Is it because the unions wanted to minimize competition from immigrant teachers and maintain a closed shop?
Where are you sourcing this idea from. Unions don't really care about the natiaonality of their members. AS a teacher neither do I...
But maybe you should ask a teacher about the teaching council. Especially ask teachers coming from abroad.Bonus Q:Why are teachers so over represented in politics?
Well I'll ask for stats on that. But surprisingly you'll find a lot of people leave teaching. Maybe because they don't want to be teachers... for some bizarre reason.
I dunno what is your answer. Lots of private sector workers in the Dáil too.
I never agreed with Enda and the likes getting the teachers pension on top of their Dáil pension either if that's what you're talking about. But that issues lies squarely at the foot of the politicians and not the teachers who stayed teaching.
or maybe teachers became politicians because they have a sense of public duty, greater good and all that.0 -
I made the point that your post was worrying. I felt it had to be said. There's no point arguing with such posts.Not even a counter argument then. I see. Well if you're not up to discussing it or simply don't have what it takes to debate, feel free to not comment on the thread.
I'll comment on what I like.0 -
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My girlfriend is friendly with two primary teachers in our estate. My GF is a nurse. She is the same age as one of the teachers who is 29 and went to school with her. Both my GF and her friend did leaving cert the same year and graduated university with Degree's the same year. The teacher leaves home at between 8.30 - 8.50 and returns home between 3.30 - 4-30 with all her Croke Park hours, correcting, class plans and extra circulars done. She earns approx €47k gross per year. My girlfriend earns approx €40k per year as she is not receiving shift allowance. The teacher works probably 55 - 65% of the hours my GF works over the year.
The working conditions are much worse in the hospital and the stress she is under is much higher obviously.
Many teachers would not be able to survive in other sectors and I think many have been institutionalised having never really left school especially those who went to Mary I straight from school.
Okay dealing with children/teenagers can be annoying and frustrating at times but Christ on a bike anyone working with the public, other colleagues and especially people supervising or managing staff also deal with other peoples personal problems too.
The majority of teachers are good at their jobs and well trained but being competent at your job isn't a good enough reason for getting paid too much as it is a soft job for what they get paid.
I'm happy enough with the job I'm in and don't want to read the same thing out of a book for 40 years but teachers are far too highly paid for the job they do especially past point 10 on the payscale.0 -
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Fails to differentiate between the teacher occupational title, and what constitutes a real teacher in essence, content, context, and commitment.99problems1 wrote: »Secondly, their work is easy. Their knowledge only needs to reach the level of an intelligent 18 year old at best. All this talk of doing lesson plans and homework in the evenings is overstated. They do them once and that's it, maybe a slight review a day before they go back to school.
A terribly worn out anecdotal chiche without merit.99problems1 wrote: »Most teachers wouldn't survive in the private sector.0 -
Given that Hibernia is now the main teacher training route in the country, and a huge number - I would say the majority - of those doing Hibernia have already been working in another career, the notion that teachers don't generally have experience of the private sector is laughable. I don't know even one teacher who hasn't worked at the very least part time retail or bar work. Many work in these areas alongside teaching in their first few years due to part time temporary contracts. But at second level my experience is that the overwhelming majority of teachers qualified in the past 20 years have already worked in the private sector full time. I worked in the private sector and ran my own business before teaching. I have left teaching and now work as a contractor because it's double the money for less than half the stress. My hours are only slightly longer and my holidays not much shorter. No pension but at least I can afford to live comfortably without moving to the back arse of nowhere. I'm inundated with calls begging me to sub because there's classes sitting all around Dublin every day with no Maths teacher. Last year I taught Leaving Certs in the evening paid privately by the school at a hugely inflated rate because they were desperate. This thread is complete fantasy land level stuff. Teachers are leaving the profession in this country in their droves.0
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square ball wrote: »My girlfriend is friendly with two primary teachers in our estate. My GF is a nurse. She is the same age as one of the teachers who is 29 and went to school with her. Both my GF and her friend did leaving cert the same year and graduated university with Degree's the same year. The teacher leaves home at between 8.30 - 8.50 and returns home between 3.30 - 4-30 with all her Croke Park hours, correcting, class plans and extra circulars done. She earns approx €47k gross per year. My girlfriend earns approx €40k per year as she is not receiving shift allowance. The teacher works probably 55 - 65% of the hours my GF works over the year.
The working conditions are much worse in the hospital and the stress she is under is much higher obviously.
Many teachers would not be able to survive in other sectors and I think many have been institutionalised having never really left school especially those who went to Mary I straight from school.
Okay dealing with children/teenagers can be annoying and frustrating at times but Christ on a bike anyone working with the public, other colleagues and especially people supervising or managing staff also deal with other peoples personal problems too.
The majority of teachers are good at their jobs and well trained but being competent at your job isn't a good enough reason for getting paid too much as it is a soft job for what they get paid.
I'm happy enough with the job I'm in and don't want to read the same thing out of a book for 40 years but teachers are far too highly paid for the job they do especially past point 10 on the payscale.
Not too sure if you're pulling the proverbial here or just genuinely showing your ignorance of what teaching is...
But anyway, your gf nurse needs to be paid more... Pure and simple.
The problem with this thread is that people think they will be happier if bad things happen to other people.
You should be very happy for your gf's teacher. She seems to have a good thing. I don't know how any teacher can come home and not be still working. I usually start work for tomorrow when the kids go to bed... and I'm still not finished. I know a few teachers that can finish work at 4 and pick up again at 8 the next day, but they're the exception.0 -
You know what another related doss job is?
Research. Not of course, the hard type of research that involves going through old bones and materials and trying to make sense of things that happened millions of years ago. I'm talking about your "social sciences" research, and even plenty of life sciences research such as diet research.
Feed a bunch of rats two different diets. Perform a few tests on them with some useless derivative "conclusion" and recommendations. Wham, bam, thank you mam - pick up the cheque and enjoy your high social status as an intellectual.0 -
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paleoperson wrote: »You know what another related doss job is?
Research. Not of course, the hard type of research that involves going through old bones and materials and trying to make sense of things that happened millions of years ago. I'm talking about your "social sciences" research, and even plenty of life sciences research such as diet research.
Feed a bunch of rats two different diets. Perform a few tests on them with some useless derivative "conclusion" and recommendations. Wham, bam, thank you mam - pick up the cheque and enjoy your high social status as an intellectual.
Where do I sign up to these rat-feeding jobs?
I've space in my house for about 10 cages.0 -
Where do I sign up to these rat-feeding jobs?
I've space in my house for about 10 cages.
Unfortunately just because it's an easy job doesn't mean it's easy to get it. You need to do a masters or another postgraduate degree in it. Talk a lot about your research to the professors and be knowledgeable about what's considered relevant in it. Apply for research jobs at that same institution. Then you're well on your way.0 -
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paleoperson wrote: »Unfortunately just because it's an easy job doesn't mean it's easy to get it. You need to do a masters or another postgraduate degree in it. Talk a lot about your research to the professors and be knowledgeable about what's considered relevant in it. Apply for research jobs at that same institution. Then you're well on your way.
Do you actively hate the idea of academia? Or do you just have some sort of a complex about people who are more intellectual than yourself? That whole inverse snobbery thing is more than a little bit toxic, to be honest, and only serves to embarrass you even more than the nonsense you posted earlier.0 -
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Insect Overlord wrote: »Do you actively hate the idea of academia? Or do you just have some sort of a complex about people who are more intellectual than yourself? That whole inverse snobbery thing is more than a little bit toxic, to be honest, and only serves to embarrass you even more than the nonsense you posted earlier.
He has always comes across like this. I'd pay diamonds to watch him cover a day's lessons tomorrow in his preferred subject.
"doss job". Imagine having such a sad life that you have to look down on others' jobs. Every job is respectable, except to the special ones.0
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