Advice: Become a teacher

99problems1

It really is the best profession.

If I knew back when I was 18 what I know now I'd have done it.

I've spoken to many teachers through friends, dating, colleagues at work who have parents etc. as teachers and it is really a top notch job.

Firstly, nearly all of them in my experience say they love their job. Highly different to what I hear every other profession say.

Secondly, their work is easy. Their knowledge only needs to reach the level of an intelligent 18 year old at best. All this talk of doing lesson plans and homework in the evenings is overstated. They do them once and that's it, maybe a slight review a day before they go back to school.

Homework in evenings? I know they do sometimes maybe 1 or 2 hours in the evening. This is their choice however as primary teachers leave at around 3/half 3. If they stayed their 8.5 hours like the rest of us they wouldn't need to bring it home. Even then, it's only time they are spending. Correcting homework is easy. Go into an office and perform analysis on a material or solution and you'll find you're being paid for time + knowledge/skills.

Secondary teachers have it softer again. No classes during parts of the day at all. Last one I was dating was often finished at 11 on a Friday and was not in until lunchtime on a Thursday. "Meetings" nearly always cancelled.

Lastly I browse facebook and that "voice for teachers" page is public so whenever a friend comments on it the page comes up.

Below is a post from yesterday. One person "exhausted" already after a week back at school.

Most teachers wouldn't survive in the private sector.

So another school year begins.Exhausted already.Have been teaching a long time but have found last couple of years very difficult.Society has changed so much and our workload with it.So many complex needs,etc at times overwhelming.I know most teachers regardless of school have witnessed this but teaching in DEIS has unique challenges.Just wondering what the burn out rate is like for these teachers.Have taught in other schools and there was always a trade off-less exam pressure versus behavioural issues.However, the challenges are outweighing the benefits these days.Has anyone looked at teacher wellbeing in this area?Would be interested to know.Anonymous please

Didn't even need to mention the holidays.

So if there's any youngster out there deciding what they want to do, do teaching.

Edgware

Three best things about being a secondary school teacher:

June
July
August

endacl

I predict reasonable and balanced discussion on this brand new topic.

Pay is awful. It got worse during the recession and never recovered. My friend started recently enough and he's barely able to make ends meet living in Dublin.

endacl

Edgware wrote: »

Three best things about being a secondary school teacher:

June
July
August

True. It’s brilliant. I’ll only have to do another 7 months (counting Xmas, Easter etc.) or so till I’m off for the summer again. On the old pension scheme. Only ‘on site’ two days a week. Rest of the time I’m off doing outreach stuff.

Teaching rocks. Well, not ‘teaching rocks’. I’d never describe them as rocks, but y’know what I mean.

enricoh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pay is awful. It got worse during the recession and never recovered. My friend started recently enough and he's barely able to make ends meet living in Dublin.

Define awful?
38k starting salary on day one seems generous to me

maccored

go be a teacher lads, if its a great job.

Paddy223

The pay is poor and there is a certain barrier to what you can make. With some jobs it can be easier to make six figure sums each year.

EmmetSpiceland

enricoh wrote: »

Define awful?
38k starting salary on day one seems generous to me

Think it’s closer to 31k.

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

Define awful?
38k starting salary on day one seems generous to me

Not sure. But my mate is having constant money issues. Can never go out. Measures were put in place during the recession that have yet to lifted so apparently the rate of getting pay increases aren't what they used to be apparently. You really want to be doing it for the love of the job.

enricoh

Paddy223 wrote: »

The pay is poor and there is a certain barrier to what you can make. With some jobs it can be easier to make six figure sums each year.

What jobs? Do u get 4 months off with them as well?!

Deebles McBeebles

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure. But my mate is having constant money issues. Can never go out. Measures were put in place during the recession that have yet to lifted so apparently the rate of getting pay increases aren't what they used to be apparently. You really want to be doing it for the love of the job.

That goes for all public sector jobs. I dont think everyone in the public service does it for the love of the job.

enricoh

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-spending-diary-ireland-2-4404095-Jan2019/%3famp=1

Heres a 30 year old teacher on 47k, there's plenty of people on half that with 20 days hollyers.
If thats underpaid, time to get bertie and his benchmarking back!

Musefan

The pay seems bad because they’re technically being paid for 9 months work, spread across 12.

o1s1n

enricoh wrote: »

What jobs? Do u get 4 months off with them as well?!

If you actually boil it down to hours of work versus pay it's not bad at all.

Take a 60k private sector worker versus a 38k teacher.

60,000 a year is 5,000 a month, for 12 months.

38,000 a year is 3,166 a month over 12 months, however they're not working 12 months.

Remove the summer holidays and it's 4,222 a month for the 9 months worked.

If you started removing other holidays, like mid term/term breaks, not to mention 2:30pm finishes, it would just go up and up.

Could easily spend the off time doing another job if you really wanted to earn more.

Snow Garden

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Think it’s closer to 31k.

Is it that bad for new starters? I know a few teacher friends and I pretty sure they are on 60k+ with loads of add-on allowances for this & that (e.g. teaching thru Irish). Granted they have 20 years of experience so I guess increments must be decent.

If I have more than 20 teaching hours in a week, I start to lose it. But I'm good at what I do and recommend it to anyone who has an interest.

The notion that it's easy is nonsense. My office job as a hedge fund accountant was easy. My others jobs before that were easy. Being on stage as an actor and dealing with kids is not easy at times. Think about any time you're having one of those bad days and then think about 20+ people looking at you.


To anyone considering it, you could jump over to some other country and teach English for a year and see if it's what you want to do. Many friends of mine have decided to go the full whack having done this, whereas I won't do that. An hour in the classroom feels like three in an office. If your workload is big outside the class as well, it's worse.

Three months off in the summer? Great. I took a year off unpaid to get my head together when it got tough. My biggest thread on this site nearly a decade ago was complaining about teachers. Having done it, I've changed my tune.

Insect Overlord

Reads OP.
Checks OP's other posts.
Puts OP on Ignore List.

Much better.

99problems1

Deleted User wrote: »

Pay is awful. It got worse during the recession and never recovered. My friend started recently enough and he's barely able to make ends meet living in Dublin.

https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

Out of college on 37k?

Go to the private sector and you'd be lucky to get 30k, more likely you'd be getting 25/27k on average.

EmmetSpiceland

Snow Garden wrote: »

Is it that bad for new starters? I know a few teacher friends and I pretty sure they are on 60k+ with loads of add-on allowances for this & that (e.g. teaching thru Irish). Granted they have 20 years of experience so I guess increments must be decent.

No, it’s not bad as a “starting salary”. It’s just not 38k.

I’m not sure they can go much higher than the high 60ks. Maybe if they move into being a principal.

I think that’s the old scales too, the “old guard” were well protected by the unions but the ones qualifying from after, say, 2010 aren’t on those scales and their pension is different.

I’m amazed that newly qualified teachers joined, or haven’t left the unions that basically sacrificed them over their older “pals”. But I guess when the union is your “de facto” HR department you’ve got no choice.

Wouldn’t be a profession I’d like to get into and if it was such an “easy ride” why aren’t the ones on here bleating about how “good the teachers have it” queuing up to join?

rgmmg

Why not become a teacher AND a politician? Get a sub in for the former, get a nice pension at end of both.

99problems1

maccored wrote: »

go be a teacher lads, if its a great job.

Did you read my post?

I would have if I knew back then what I know now.

Unfortunately you're talking about 100k cost/salary loss for the two years I'd need to take out.

tempnam

99problems1 wrote: »

It really is the best profession.

If I knew back when I was 18 what I know now I'd have done it.

I've spoken to many teachers through friends, dating, colleagues at work who have parents etc. as teachers and it is really a top notch job.

Firstly, nearly all of them in my experience say they love their job. Highly different to what I hear every other profession say.

Secondly, their work is easy. Their knowledge only needs to reach the level of an intelligent 18 year old at best. All this talk of doing lesson plans and homework in the evenings is overstated. They do them once and that's it, maybe a slight review a day before they go back to school.

Homework in evenings? I know they do sometimes maybe 1 or 2 hours in the evening. This is their choice however as primary teachers leave at around 3/half 3. If they stayed their 8.5 hours like the rest of us they wouldn't need to bring it home. Even then, it's only time they are spending. Correcting homework is easy. Go into an office and perform analysis on a material or solution and you'll find you're being paid for time + knowledge/skills.

Secondary teachers have it softer again. No classes during parts of the day at all. Last one I was dating was often finished at 11 on a Friday and was not in until lunchtime on a Thursday. "Meetings" nearly always cancelled.

Lastly I browse facebook and that "voice for teachers" page is public so whenever a friend comments on it the page comes up.

Below is a post from yesterday. One person "exhausted" already after a week back at school.

Most teachers wouldn't survive in the private sector.




Didn't even need to mention the holidays.

So if there's any youngster out there deciding what they want to do, do teaching.

While I don't disagree with the general sentiment of what you're saying; I can't agree with it all.

I wouldn't envy dealing with a classroom full of children / teenagers all day. But that's probably one of the few negatives I can think of about the job.

My view may be slightly skewed by the fact that I know a teacher who went straight from secondary school to college to teaching.... and I genuinely don't think that this person would be able to cope with a job that required them to work until 5.30pm / 6pm on a daily basis.

I think a lot of teachers are out of touch with reality - especially when they go straight from school to college to teaching. They should have 'real-world' experience. How can you teach something to kids when you've never experienced it yourself?

When I was back in school myself, there was a specific teacher from our school who decided to take a few kids into town (Dublin City) to go visit ~something~ and he decided that they would just take a Dublin Bus... he couldn't understand why the bus driver wouldn't accept notes to pay the fare, and that he needed coins. He started arguing with the bus driver over this.

I have also been involved over the years with an organisation that would have a lot of 'training days' for teachers - so I have been around groups of teachers at conferences etc.

The funny thing is that they behave in a way that they would disapprove of if their students behaved in this way (speaking among themselves while there is a speaker addressing the room, sneaking out early, on their phones - basically behaving like school children!).

Sleepy

If you can get a job in a school outside of the major cities it's a sweet number: relatively high wages and lots of time off. If you have to support yourself in a major city though, you'll need a second income (or a partner to share the rent/mortgage with).

As an add-on, if you become a qualified teacher, you can have an easy life in some international school somewhere. You can go to so many countries and get great money. Most of my Irish friends who got qualified do this.

Not many jobs are that transferable all over the world.

maccored

99problems1 wrote: »

Did you read my post?

I would have if I knew back then what I know now.

Unfortunately you're talking about 100k cost/salary loss for the two years I'd need to take out.

never too late - sure you'd have a handy job for life then :rolleyes:

99problems1

enricoh wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-spending-diary-ireland-2-4404095-Jan2019/%3famp=1

Heres a 30 year old teacher on 47k, there's plenty of people on half that with 20 days hollyers.
If thats underpaid, time to get bertie and his benchmarking back!

Remember location doesn't matter with teachers either. She'll be earning 47k if she's working and living in Mullingar.

James Bond Junior

It is a great job, it really is but it is mentally draining. I remember meeting an ex QS who turned to teaching and loved it. He said teaching was tougher as you had to be "always on" whereas in QS you ramped up to a project, got it done, eased off for a week or so and then ramped gradually up again. He said at least in the PS you could disappear for 10 mins for a shìte and gather your thoughts or even for a fag and nobody cared whereas that isn't an option in school. You simply couldn't do it unless you loved it, most people will tolerate a job they don't like, teaching isn't one of those jobs.

I am now teaching in the Middle East and it is a doddle compared with what we are expected to do at home. In Ireland it's the constant barage of paperwork for the sake of paperwork, policy formation, record keeping, planning, portfolios and the feeling of contempt and distrust emanating from the department and inspectors. Woe betide anyone whom doesn't have their paperwork in order. Good teachers live in fear of the cigire and their unannounced inspections meaning we feel like a gazelle waiting to be pounced upon by a lion whereas the bad teachers who are rare nowadays, especially in primary anyway, simply don't care. Good teachers feel like no matter how much we give, it's not enough for the department, and the more we give the more we are expected to do. Accountability is a good thing but it shouldn't be at the cost of people being stressed and under an immense mental pressure.

Added to that is a general contempt felt for teachers by Joe Public. I often hear how easy I have yet in the next breathe it is followed by how they couldn't do it. I don't know of any other profession that is looked down on by so many yet it is as essential as healthcare or policing to a properly functioning society.

I am under no illusion how good we have it but when I do return to Ireland part of me does wonder whether I'll go back to teaching or try something else but finding a job with as good a salary as I have at home will be nigh on impossible. A teaching degree is very narrow, you are trained to do one thing and unless management is your thing the trajectory is non existent. Our perks are fantastic, it can't be denied but sometimes people only see the perks and not what goes on behind the scenes or the realities of what the job actually entails.

Nah couldn't be bothered

99problems1

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Reads OP.
Checks OP's other posts.
Puts OP on Ignore List.

Much better.

Good.

Toto Wolfcastle

It’s only a great job if you genuinely love it. I loved it, and when I stopped loving it no amount money or holidays would have kept me in the job. I’m actually better off in my office job (private sector) now. If I need time off last-minute, or want to work from home or need a longer lunch break, it’s no problem. I don’t need to take work home with me in the evening, and when I’m on holidays, I’m on holidays and not thinking about work.

If you’re passionate about it and don’t mind hard work, it’s a pretty good job.

99problems1

tempnam wrote: »

While I don't disagree with the general sentiment of what you're saying; I can't agree with it all.

I wouldn't envy dealing with a classroom full of children / teenagers all day. But that's probably one of the few negatives I can think of about the job.

My view may be slightly skewed by the fact that I know a teacher who went straight from secondary school to college to teaching.... and I genuinely don't think that this person would be able to cope with a job that required them to work until 5.30pm / 6pm on a daily basis.

I think a lot of teachers are out of touch with reality - especially when they go straight from school to college to teaching. They should have 'real-world' experience. How can you teach something to kids when you've never experienced it yourself?

When I was back in school myself, there was a specific teacher from our school who decided to take a few kids into town (Dublin City) to go visit ~something~ and he decided that they would just take a Dublin Bus... he couldn't understand why the bus driver wouldn't accept notes to pay the fare, and that he needed coins. He started arguing with the bus driver over this.

I have also been involved over the years with an organisation that would have a lot of 'training days' for teachers - so I have been around groups of teachers at conferences etc.

The funny thing is that they behave in a way that they would disapprove of if their students behaved in this way (speaking among themselves while there is a speaker addressing the room, sneaking out early, on their phones - basically behaving like school children!).

Yes. I also find teachers to act like children a lot of the time too. They act like they are in the classroom all the time and think they can boss and shout at other people because they can do that in a classroom and kids will listen.

Also seen them grunting and going red in the face GRRRR when they don't get their way. Millimetres away from starting to stomp their feet. Grown adults.

99problems1

Toto Wolfcastle wrote: »

It’s only a great job if you genuinely love it. I loved it, and when I stopped loving it no amount money or holidays would have kept me in the job. I’m actually better off in my office job (private sector) now. If I need time off last-minute, or want to work from home or need a longer lunch break, it’s no problem. I don’t need to take work home with me in the evening, and when I’m on holidays, I’m on holidays and not thinking about work.

If you’re passionate about it and don’t mind hard work, it’s a pretty good job.

When did you join the private sector?

JohnnyFlash

There’s an impression in the public consciousness that teachers tend to be a bit work shy. The short working day, long holidays, and structured approach to work would all support that theory.

If you wanna talk about work shy, work in IT. If I wanted to, I could probably work from home for a week, spoof my daily meetings, make up that I'm having issues with my development environment so I have to reinstall everything and watch netflix for the week.

topper75

For secondary, if you teach certain subjects, the sector is oversupplied and you may find it hard to get breaks. Physics might be better than say Irish or Music.

When you do get that break you won't start with a 'salary'; you cover for maternity leave and such like and are paid per hour SPENT TEACHING in the classroom. When the kids are off - you are paid zilch. Worse again at Christmas where they are off and you have to correct their exams and you are paid zilch.

The kids are off in Ireland a LOT. Bills are still there in summer.

I think all the complaining about teachers having it easy is usually based on having absolutely any concept of the above issues. There is a belief that you are given a permanent wholetime job right out of college and do nothing when not standing in front of kids in a classroom.

Some people find teachers to be dicks. Fair enough. In my staffroom experience, yes many of them are/were sadly. They tend to be a very political animal and sometimes that yields pettiness and condescension.

Don't go near it without the infamous 'vocation'. You have to really want it.

CageWager

Things I love about September:

-The autumnal tint beginning to appear in the trees
-The slightly cooler nights
-The annual teacher bashing thread

Sunny Disposition

Have a daughter a teacher. It’s a fine job in a lot of ways, and good money this side of the country. Nothing special in Dublin though, where the cost of living is much higher.

Edgware

Snow Garden wrote: »

Is it that bad for new starters? I know a few teacher friends and I pretty sure they are on 60k+ with loads of add-on allowances for this & that (e.g. teaching thru Irish). Granted they have 20 years of experience so I guess increments must be decent.

Don't forget the grinds. Money in to the hand

Raconteuse

Being responsible for the education and guardianship of up to 30 children, having to deal with children who are maniacs (especially in secondary school, where they do not want to be there), having to deal with parents who are maniacs, being an unofficial social worker and counsellor... no thanks, couldn't care less about the holidays. Why didn't the whiners train to be teachers?

Teachers shouldn't get extra money for correcting in the summer though.

99problems1

topper75 wrote: »

For secondary, if you teach certain subjects, the sector is oversupplied and you may find it hard to get breaks. Physics might be better than say Irish or Music.

When you do get that break you won't start with a 'salary'; you cover for maternity leave and such like and are paid per hour SPENT TEACHING in the classroom. When the kids are off - you are paid zilch. Worse again at Christmas where they are off and you have to correct their exams and you are paid zilch.

The kids are off in Ireland a LOT. Bills are still there in summer.

I think all the complaining about teachers having it easy is usually based on having absolutely any concept of the above issues. There is a belief that you are given a permanent wholetime job right out of college and do nothing when not standing in front of kids in a classroom.

Some people find teachers to be dicks. Fair enough. In my staffroom experience, yes many of them are/were sadly. They tend to be a very political animal and sometimes that yields pettiness and condescension.

Don't go near it without the infamous 'vocation'. You have to really want it.

It's not easy to walk into a job in the private sector on good money.

And you have multiple chances to earn, give grinds etc.

Geuze

Outside cities, the wages are ok.

But you won't get a permanent FT job after graduation.

Also, and this is the main point, if secondary, you have to face teenagers every day.

You are part social-worker, part psychologist.

The discipline issues can be serious.

byhookorbycrook

Yes, cushy number, go for it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/school-challenges-order-to-re-enrol-boy-8-expelled-over-assaults-1.4007985

https://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-challenge-student-knife-expelled-4582259-Apr2019/

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teenager-with-autism-challenges-expulsion-from-school-942678.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/why-there-is-a-teacher-shortage-1.3868165

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2019/0523/1051060-teachers-abroad/

99problems1

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Yes, cushy number, go for it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/school-challenges-order-to-re-enrol-boy-8-expelled-over-assaults-1.4007985

https://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-challenge-student-knife-expelled-4582259-Apr2019/

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teenager-with-autism-challenges-expulsion-from-school-942678.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/why-there-is-a-teacher-shortage-1.3868165

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2019/0523/1051060-teachers-abroad/

Has a teacher ever died at work though?

Poor defence.

Raconteuse

Yeah the only way a job's toughness can be measured is the odds of actual survival.

Pineapple1

Toto Wolfcastle wrote:

It’s only a great job if you genuinely love it. I loved it, and when I stopped loving it no amount money or holidays would have kept me in the job. I’m actually better off in my office job (private sector) now. If I need time off last-minute, or want to work from home or need a longer lunch break, it’s no problem. I don’t need to take work home with me in the evening, and when I’m on holidays, I’m on holidays and not thinking about work.

How long were in it before you quit if you dont mind me asking?

99problems1

Raconteuse wrote: »

Yeah the only way a job's toughness can be measured is the odds of actual survival.

Likewise a toughness of a job can only be measured by how many 8 year old autistic kids shout at you.

emilymemily

Since when have teachers got a starting salary of 38k? That's laughable, its actually 36k but thats only for full time hours, most teachers dont earn anything even close to this, even permanent FE and post primary teachers are lucky to have 11 hours a week.

Most teachers, particularly post primary and FE are working two jobs to make ends meet., some travelling 4+ hours a day to work and they are the lucky ones as they have a teaching job to go to, many teachers have left the profession after 6 years of study because of the lack of jobs and permanency, only permanent teachers get paid for Summers and holidays, Substitute teachers either have to sign on or take up a second job.
Teachers dont get academic allowances anymore either.

It takes 6 years to train to become a teacher, thats the same amount of time it takes to become a doctor to be met with unemployment at the end of it, teacher bashing in the general public due to misinformation and nepotism and corruption in a broken education system.

Most teachers dont get permanency for years after graduating, some never do.

As for the job itself, it is not a 9 -3 or 9 - 4 job.
Teachers often start work an hour before classes start and dont leave school until 5 or half 5, every evening there are staff meetings, preparations for the next school day, corrections, folders to sort out, paper work to do, lesson plans, lesson materials, each child has to be considered in every lesson given and lessons adjusted to suit individual children's needs this includes behaviour, ability and child's interests. Allot of work has to be brought home and teachers work through weekends and holidays trying to get through all the paper work. Then there is the training days, upskilling courses that are a mandatory part of the job - these courses are done during holidays and after school.
During the working day you have to consistently be 'on', find the balance of being warm, friendly and open to students, dealing with behaviour issues, knowing each child and their triggers is very important just to get through the day - last year I had a bipolar child in my class who could storm out of the class, hit a teacher, another child or harm himself without any warning, the same child could be exceptionally well behaved, finding the right balance with children and knowing how to keep them calm and understanding their individual personalities is a big part of the job.
No matter what you have going on in your life or what stress you are under, you cant bring it into the classroom.

As said before teachers can be not the nicest of people, unfortunately ive found this to be very true in my experience working in schools, there are some fantastic teachers but quite allot of teachers are on a power trip and tend to think theyre better than everyone else and this is coming from a teacher, bullying in the staffroom isnt uncommon unfortunately which of course doesnt help the difficulties and stress already dealt with by teachers.

Raconteuse

99problems1 wrote: »

Likewise a toughness of a job can only be measured by how many 8 year old autistic kids shout at you.

Of course not.

Zaph

99problems1 wrote: »

Has a teacher ever died at work though?

Poor defence.

As someone married to an ex-teacher, I've seen first hand the emotional and mental strain that teachers can come under. Sure, some are able to coast through their whole career because they've been lucky with the schools or areas they're teaching in/the ethos of the school/the support provided by management, etc., but your sweeping suggestion that all teachers have a cushy number is way off the mark. The vast majority have to put up with increasingly ill-behaved kids, demanding parents and an education system that is permanently struggling for funding.

A second teacher in my wife's family has been qualified for 4 or 5 years and she's yet to get any job more secure than maternity leave cover. So while the money might be decent enough for people entering the profession, actually getting a job in the first place is far from certain. With all this in mind it's a wonder why anyone would want to become a teacher.

Yer Da sells Avon

A great litmus test for thickness is to ask someone if they think teachers have an easy job. It takes a lot of hard work to make it look easy.

I thought about training to be a teacher a few years ago, but decided against it because I lack the requisite work ethic and would therefore be shite at the job, constantly bluffing, taking shortcuts and trying to get away with it. Like my old history teacher, who showed us the Michael Collins film seven times in fifth year. Also, whatever about the kids with behavioural issues, it's the quiet, well-behaved ones who I'd hate. Sitting there. Judging you.