Advice: Become a teacher

c68zapdsm5i1ru

99problems1 wrote: »

Go to the private sector and you won't last long. Sure if you could never get go and guaranteed salary increases every year what motivation is there?

Seriously??? There are lots of incompetent people working in the private sector.

99problems1

Elias Enough Swag wrote: »

Seriously??? There are lots of incompetent people working in the private sector.

Not in jobs there's actual demand for though..

realdanbreen

kippy wrote: »

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well maybe you might know seeing that nobody else here seems to, how many teachers have been sacked here in the last 5 years?

I've no idea to be completely honest. I just did a google search for teacher dismissal in Ireland and it appears there have been a few that have made it into the papers/courts - mostly for gross misconduct but I doubt the numbers dismissed in general are available. If you asked me how many "insert private sector profession" have been sacked for incompetence the past five years I wouldn't know either.

The correct answer is 2! In 5 years. One guy got his marching orders minutes before he was carted off in a prison van. The other got hers despite her union fighting tooth and nail to have her job suspended while she was in the clink.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

99problems1 wrote: »

Not in jobs there's actual demand for though..

Across the Private Sector. Like the Public Sector it has lots of good, talented and hard working people, but also a minority of those who are lazy, incompetent and out for what they can get.

Is there a lot of demand for teaching jobs? There was an article in the paper this week about unqualified people having to step in and help out, due to the difficulty of getting qualified people to apply for jobs.

Insect Overlord

paleoperson wrote: »

Well you're contradicting Einstein who said: "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

...

Hell, the biggest danger would be that you'd be too advanced at something for you to communicate so well with students.

Thanks for contradicting yourself in your own post so that I didn't have to do it myself. Being an expert in a field of knowledge does not by default make someone a good communicator. If you cannot communicate distilled knowledge to a pupil in terms that they can readily understand, then you cannot immediately teach them.

Effective teaching is a collection of skills that requires years of practice, constant self-evaluation, and the ability to recognise when you must switch between those different skills (when a student needs a different approach in order to take on board the lesson you want them to learn).

Katgurl

Sorry I have not read the whole thread.

I was quite cheered when I began reading the OP though as I thought it was a teacher saying what a great job it is. Then I got to the end where you slagged of the teacher who posted how she is struggling.

So all these teachers who have it so easy - are they saying they have it easy and they love their jobs or do you just think they have it easy and should love their jobs?

There is a bit of a difference.

By the way, I am a teacher, i love it and find it so much less stressful than my previous career. But I wish I was surrounded by teachers who felt the same. The moaning never ends.

Anyway, back to the OP. If you think it's such a cushty number, go back and retrain like I did.

99problems1

Elias Enough Swag wrote: »

Across the Private Sector. Like the Public Sector it has lots of good, talented and hard working people, but also a minority of those who are lazy, incompetent and out for what they can get.

Is there a lot of demand for teaching jobs? There was an article in the paper this week about unqualified people having to step in and help out, due to the difficulty of getting qualified people to apply for jobs.

Well going by this thread finding a job is impossible and you have to survive off 10 hours a week.

Treppen

99problems1 wrote: »

Not in jobs there's actual demand for though..

Have you ever tried to hire a good tradesman?

99problems1

Katgurl wrote: »

Sorry I have not read the whole thread.

I was quite cheered when I began reading the OP though as I thought it was a teacher saying what a great job it is. Then I got to the end where you slagged of the teacher who posted how she is struggling.

So all these teachers who have it so easy - are they saying they have it easy and they love their jobs or do you just think they have it easy and should love their jobs?

There is a bit of a difference.

By the way, I am a teacher, i love it and find it so much less stressful than my previous career. But I wish I was surrounded by teachers who felt the same. The moaning never ends.

Anyway, back to the OP. If you think it's such a cushty number, go back and retrain like I did.

As I have repeatedly said, due to my salary I have worked to improve over 7 or so years, it's too costly.

I'd have to take two years to study, plus 2 years of college fees. That's around 100k+ cost.

Then I'd be starting out back on a lower salary than I am now, meaning I'd be losing money every year for a long long time. Overall cost/opportunity loss would be 250-300k. That's a mortgage. Just not worth the money at this stage despite how great a job it is.

Treppen

99problems1 wrote: »

As I have repeatedly said, due to my salary I have worked to improve over 7 or so years, it's too costly.

I'd have to take two years to study, plus 2 years of college fees. That's around 100k+ cost.

Then I'd be starting out back on a lower salary than I am now, meaning I'd be losing money every year for a long long time. Overall cost/opportunity loss would be 250-300k. That's a mortgage. Just not worth the money at this stage despite how great a job it is.

How do you know it's great, Have you any experience of teaching?

99problems1

Treppen wrote: »

How do you know it's great, Have you any experience of teaching?

Did you read my comments in this thread?

I have enough experience of dealing with them to know.

thecomedian

99problems1 wrote: »

Did you read my comments in this thread?

I have enough experience of dealing with them to know.

It’s quite clear that you don’t.

What time does a primary school teacher finish at on a week day?

o1s1n

o1s1n wrote: »

If you actually boil it down to hours of work versus pay it's not bad at all.

Take a 60k private sector worker versus a 38k teacher.

60,000 a year is 5,000 a month, for 12 months.

38,000 a year is 3,166 a month over 12 months, however they're not working 12 months.

Remove the summer holidays and it's 4,222 a month for the 9 months worked.

If you started removing other holidays, like mid term/term breaks, not to mention 2:30pm finishes, it would just go up and up.

Could easily spend the off time doing another job if you really wanted to earn more.

Who starts out of college on 60k?

99problems1

thecomedian wrote: »

It’s quite clear that you don’t.

What time does a primary school teacher finish at on a week day?

Depends on what class they have doesn't it.

OneArt

The hours in relation to pay as well as substantial time off would attract me if it weren't for the fact that...

1) I'm not a disciplinarian. I would have a hard time trying to enforce stupid rules I find difficult to agree with.

2) You could end up in some Godforsaken backwater. No amount of pay and time off would be worth being trapped 9 months of year in Ballynowhere.

3) According to several teachers I've spoken to, switching careers after teaching is difficult. You're basically always branded as a teacher. It may not be as bad as that but I wouldn't be willing to risk it.

4) Teenagers suck. I don't hate them but I vividly remember being one and I hated it. This ties in with not being a disciplinarian, I would naturally be on the kids' side. I also don't want to deal with their petty dramas.

What bothers me the most though is inflexibility of location. In my current profession I can literally work wherever I have Internet. My job can be very, very boring at times but at least I can do it in a cafe whilst having a beer or hop on a train for a change of location.

Yeah, a hard no.

mayo londoner

My girlfriend is a primary school teacher, and 3 of my best mates are secondary teachers (also in a whatsapp group with them). I have lived with two of these down through the years and **** me, the sense of entitlement astonishes me. they genuinely have no grasp of reality. I regularly have arguements with them when they start whinging about their work conditions, bear in mind I worked in UL for 4 years and never had it as easy. One of them finishes at 11 on both Wednesdays and Fridays and is constantly on the piss during the week, no shortage of money. Another one of them that I lived with would be home by 2ish on a normal day, have his food shop done, dinner made, 5k run done, showered, dinner eaten and a nap by the time I get home at 5.30 (I live down the road from office thankfully). I can count on one hand how many times I've seen either of the teachers I've lived with bring home work with them, and by christ they let you know about it when they do as if its a major accomplishment.

They also seem oblivious to the fact that EVERYONE payes taxes, not just teachers as someone else alluded to, I actually laughed in one of their faces when they've tried to use this to defend themselves. Not to mention the old chesnut of having to do a degree to be a teacher, again majority of professions require this.

Not to mention being ridicuously well paid for they hours they work pro-rata Say 33 weeks x 25hrs per week (say 22hrs teaching time and 3hrs for coursework for example) for a 38k starting salary for secondary school teachers. Thats the equivalent of someone in the private sector working about 23 weeks, let that sink in.....................

And the absolute scutter they talk about when threatning to go on strike about this Equal Pay for Equal Work nonsense. I was working in UL when the salary scales were adjusted and I was on the lower pay scale, but guess what, I signed up to it when I accepted the job, country was in the **** with recession, get on with it for **** sake. Have great sympathy for nurses when they go on strike as they deserve every penny and more as their pay and working conditions are atrocious, teachers can **** right off, biggest shower of spoofers going. Also never shy of letting the world know when they are on their holidays either despite their constant moaning about 'poor pay', give me a break.

And before I get the usual teacher retort 'If it's so good then why don't you become a teacher' well the answer is firstly, I can't as nobody in their right mind could afford two years out of work to study Hibernia living in this country with current bills and expenses, not to mention the time. And maybe, just maybe some people just don't want to be teachers, they want to be astronauts instead.

thecomedian

99problems1 wrote: »

Depends on what class they have doesn't it.

So you don’t know.

James Bond Junior

realdanbreen wrote: »

if you agree that they should be removed then you surely have lobbied your union to see about getting them removed?

The union can't remove them. That is the board of management's job or the department of education. And no I haven't as I have never worked with somebody incompetent enough to warrant being removed. Some have been lazy but still do their jobs as required, just to the bare minimum. Just like many people whom I worked with in the private sector, every job has lazy articles who aren't removed.

James Bond Junior

I notice so many posts in this thread about how people had one lazy teacher in primary or the teacher who was awful at maths who taught them in Leaving Cert. What I don't see are posts about the teacher who they loved in Primary or the teacher who gave Saturday classes in secondary before exams or who made a subject come alive and inspired them. The former are the exception and the latter the rule yet teachers as one are demonised as per usual.

I'm tired of this thread so I'm bowing out with these words. I work hard some days, I cut corners other days, I give over time at weekends and out of hours for extra curricular and complain about it, other times I get on with it as it is for the greater good. I am paid well, I am comfortable and quite well off especially as I live outside the pale but I see my school classmates who went down the private route whom were paid a pittance compared to me when we left college, they work longer hours but now have bigger houses, nicer cars and bigger wage packets than I do now. They tell me how easy I have it yet agree they couldn't do it. But they too work hard some days, cut corners other days, they complain and moan and also just get on with it, it is part of being human and everyone is guilty of this basic human trait.

Everything is relevant to ones own circumstances and the constant shítting on teachers is old but will never cease. As long as teachers exist and benefit from longer holidays, shorter hours and so on there will be begrudgery. If you don't like it, that's fine but just remember, everyone on here can read and write to varying levels of proficiency, a teacher taught you how. It takes 40 hours to learn how to drive a car, an exceptionally challenging cognitive task. Learning to read and write alone takes over 1000 hours. Add to this comprehension, critical thought, fluency and so on. Everyone in this thread can do the basics and far more and it was teachers simply doing their jobs proficiently that enabled it.

Katgurl

99problems1 wrote: »

As I have repeatedly said, due to my salary I have worked to improve over 7 or so years, it's too costly.

I'd have to take two years to study, plus 2 years of college fees. That's around 100k+ cost.

Then I'd be starting out back on a lower salary than I am now, meaning I'd be losing money every year for a long long time. Overall cost/opportunity loss would be 250-300k. That's a mortgage. Just not worth the money at this stage despite how great a job it is.

So basically the money is not worth it? Yet you are advising all school leavers to pursue this career. Forgive me if I seem a little lost.

I do agree with you that there are many many many perks to this job but I can tell you right now that it only suits certain personalities. Too many people are going into it for the pension, security, hours. You should only do it if you think you will love being in the classroom.

tonycascarino

The biggest problem I notice about teaching nowadays is that the country is over saturated with them and not enough jobs for them all. So many teachers out there not able to get permanent jobs.

The other problem is that there are seemingly not enough males doing Primary Teaching. There are many schools around me that have nothing but female teachers and no male teachers in the school at all which to me is wrong as there should be a balance.

99problems1

mayo londoner wrote: »

My girlfriend is a primary school teacher, and 3 of my best mates are secondary teachers (also in a whatsapp group with them). I have lived with two of these down through the years and **** me, the sense of entitlement astonishes me. they genuinely have no grasp of reality. I regularly have arguements with them when they start whinging about their work conditions, bear in mind I worked in UL for 4 years and never had it as easy. One of them finishes at 11 on both Wednesdays and Fridays and is constantly on the piss during the week, no shortage of money. Another one of them that I lived with would be home by 2ish on a normal day, have his food shop done, dinner made, 5k run done, showered, dinner eaten and a nap by the time I get home at 5.30 (I live down the road from office thankfully). I can count on one hand how many times I've seen either of the teachers I've lived with bring home work with them, and by christ they let you know about it when they do as if its a major accomplishment.

They also seem oblivious to the fact that EVERYONE payes taxes, not just teachers as someone else alluded to, I actually laughed in one of their faces when they've tried to use this to defend themselves. Not to mention the old chesnut of having to do a degree to be a teacher, again majority of professions require this.

Not to mention being ridicuously well paid for they hours they work pro-rata Say 33 weeks x 25hrs per week (say 22hrs teaching time and 3hrs for coursework for example) for a 38k starting salary for secondary school teachers. Thats the equivalent of someone in the private sector working about 23 weeks, let that sink in.....................

And the absolute scutter they talk about when threatning to go on strike about this Equal Pay for Equal Work nonsense. I was working in UL when the salary scales were adjusted and I was on the lower pay scale, but guess what, I signed up to it when I accepted the job, country was in the **** with recession, get on with it for **** sake. Have great sympathy for nurses when they go on strike as they deserve every penny and more as their pay and working conditions are atrocious, teachers can **** right off, biggest shower of spoofers going. Also never shy of letting the world know when they are on their holidays either despite their constant moaning about 'poor pay', give me a break.

And before I get the usual teacher retort 'If it's so good then why don't you become a teacher' well the answer is firstly, I can't as nobody in their right mind could afford two years out of work to study Hibernia living in this country with current bills and expenses, not to mention the time. And maybe, just maybe some people just don't want to be teachers, they want to be astronauts instead.

Spot on!

Remember when the conference was on a few years back and there was teachers being interviewed saying things like "I'm seriously thinking about emigrating, something needs to be done as we can barely get by"

Off with you! That coercive behaviour will work in a classroom full of kids who are scared of getting more homework, won't wash in the real world.

99problems1

thecomedian wrote: »

So you don’t know.

Are you asking me for the finish time of every school in the country or??

Primary school could finish any time between 3 and half 3 usually, couple hours less for junior, senior infants.

99problems1

Katgurl wrote: »

So basically the money is not worth it? Yet you are advising all school leavers to pursue this career. Forgive me if I seem a little lost.

I do agree with you that there are many many many perks to this job but I can tell you right now that it only suits certain personalities. Too many people are going into it for the pension, security, hours. You should only do it if you think you will love being in the classroom.

Huh?

Just because I wouldn't give up 7 years career progression doesn't mean it's not the best and easiest profession going. Not sure what kind of logic that is. Sounds like teacher logic to be fair! They wouldn't know much about opportunity cost or the likes.

Dr. Bre

Do they still go to coppers ?

shesty

99problems1 wrote: »

Huh?

Just because I wouldn't give up 7 years career progression doesn't mean it's not the best and easiest profession going. Not sure what kind of logic that is. Sounds like teacher logic to be fair! They wouldn't know much about opportunity cost or the likes.

Are your comments are based simply on your experience of having been through the school system?
Definitely doesn't make you an expert on teachers.
As a teacher you have to be a teacher, a social worker, do crowd control, a psychologist, often identify special needs and speech issues, and a mediator.And that's just the kids.Don't even get me started on the parents.

The mistake teachers make is constantly shouting that they have it harder than anyone realises or than anyone else.That is a surefire way to annoy people, especially when it's combined with a lot more holidays than anybody else.

Still wouldn't do it though.

thecomedian

99problems1 wrote: »

Are you asking me for the finish time of every school in the country or??

Primary school could finish any time between 3 and half 3 usually, couple hours less for junior, senior infants.

Well the primary school teacher that’s doing their job properly will finish school usually about 1 and a half hours after the children are gone.

It sounds great but no way would I do it. Apart from being in a classroom with 25-30 children for 6 hours a day. I’d lose it having to deal with stupid parents.

I’m only talking about primary teaching here. Secondary is different alright.

Katgurl

99problems1 wrote: »

Huh?

Just because I wouldn't give up 7 years career progression doesn't mean it's not the best and easiest profession going. Not sure what kind of logic that is. Sounds like teacher logic to be fair! They wouldn't know much about opportunity cost or the likes.

I gave up twelve years career progression and took the significant financial hit for many of the reasons you outlined. I am not sure how you are qualified to say what I would know or not know about opportunity costs or anything else.

Treppen

Katgurl wrote: »

I gave up twelve years career progression and took the significant financial hit for many of the reasons you outlined. I am not sure how you are qualified to say what I would know or not know about opportunity costs or anything else.

I think it's cos he must've more intelligence than all teachers, ever.

Although Opportunity Cost is covered in Economics.
So he's on a par with Economics teachers. That must hurt.

Edgware

kippy wrote: »

This nonsense get's spun out in any of these types of conversations.
There are plenty incompendent and lazy people working in the private sector. Some for many years in the same company - I think there are plenty here would would back me up when I say that.
Thats not an excuse for incompetance or lazy people, just an argument that you wont get away with incompetance or laziness in the private sector. The bigger the company, the easier it is to get away with I would suggest with some roles being easier to hide in than others.

Of course there are incompetent people in the private sector. How man cases of uselessofsolicitors, estate agents, medics have we read about and then the service industry, plumbers, shop staff etc