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Leinster schools league/cup 2015/2016 senior&junior

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    #152
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Leinster13 wrote: »
    Do you have to be under 16 at a certain time of the year? January is it? Would you know for next season, 2016-2017, what would be the cut off date for being under 16?
    Thanks
    Schools competitions in Munster, Leinster and Connacht are 1/1 Ulster are different. 16/17 Junior would be 1/1/01


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    #153
    Lobby Con Shine
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Lobby Con Shine


    CCR currently hold all of the cups for the competitions which they entered - the Senior Cup and the Senior and Junior Leagues. Add to that they are currently the cup holder in their hurling division and it hasn't been a bad year for a school of 150 (is it 150?).

    Does anyone have any predictions for the Senior Cup this year? I see from the PP odds that Blackrock are heavy favourites as usual. Is there good reason for this (i.e. a good team) or does it reflect the amount of money being placed?

    Outside of Blackrock, who else should we be looking out for?


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    #154
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Lobby Con Shine wrote: »
    CCR currently hold all of the cups for the competitions which they entered - the Senior Cup and the Senior and Junior Leagues. Add to that they are currently the cup holder in their hurling division and it hasn't been a bad year for a school of 150 (is it 150?).

    Does anyone have any predictions for the Senior Cup this year? I see from the PP odds that Blackrock are heavy favourites as usual. Is there good reason for this (i.e. a good team) or does it reflect the amount of money being placed?

    Outside of Blackrock, who else should we be looking out for?
    They don't hold all cups ... junior schools cup....

    Blackrock will nearly always be put in as favourites. Roscrea won senior league division 1A so will be good.

    Any thoughts on the other provinces? May try go to one of the games in Limerick over next few days. Have only really seen Connacht schools games this year so far


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    #155
    gazump123
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭gazump123


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    They don't hold all cups ... junior schools cup....

    Blackrock will nearly always be put in as favourites. Roscrea won senior league division 1A so will be good.

    Any thoughts on the other provinces? May try go to one of the games in Limerick over next few days. Have only really seen Connacht schools games this year so far

    Are there games on this week in Munster? Where and when?


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    #156
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    gazump123 wrote: »
    Are there games on this week in Munster? Where and when?
    Check Munster website as all fixtures listed on domestic site. There is a few in Limerick over next few days


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    #157
    FrannoFan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Lobby Con Shine wrote: »
    CCR currently hold all of the cups for the competitions which they entered - the Senior Cup and the Senior and Junior Leagues. Add to that they are currently the cup holder in their hurling division and it hasn't been a bad year for a school of 150 (is it 150?).

    Does anyone have any predictions for the Senior Cup this year? I see from the PP odds that Blackrock are heavy favourites as usual. Is there good reason for this (i.e. a good team) or does it reflect the amount of money being placed?

    Outside of Blackrock, who else should we be looking out for?

    League wasn't particularly strong this year. Terenure meant to have a good side this year.
    Black rock won last three junior cups so should have strong seniors. When there is no standout team rock are the bookies default favourite.


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    #158
    funtime93
    Closed Accounts Posts: 958 ✭✭✭funtime93


    Except they're not favourites by default. They're the best this year by a distance


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    #159
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    funtime93 wrote: »
    Except they're not favourites by default. They're the best this year by a distance

    Except they're not.
    They are favorites with 3 junior cup winning teams in 4th, 5th & 6th year.

    Their closest rivals will be Belvo who have Junior Cup finalists in 6th year and 5th year and semi finalists in 4th year who lost to Rock.

    Belvo seniors beat Rock in a friendly in November and of the starting team from last year who lost to CCR in the final, Belvo have 7 starters and a large number of subs returning.

    It's not as cut and dry as you think


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    #160
    RobbieRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭RobbieRuns


    Inspector Coptoor wrote: »
    Except they're not.
    They are favorites with 3 junior cup winning teams in 4th, 5th & 6th year.

    Their closest rivals will be Belvo who have Junior Cup finalists in 6th year and 5th year and semi finalists in 4th year who lost to Rock.

    Belvo seniors beat Rock in a friendly in November and of the starting team from last year who lost to CCR in the final, Belvo have 7 starters and a large number of subs returning.

    It's not as cut and dry as you think

    Good to hear.


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    #161
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    Who is taking over senior team from Peter Smyth at Rock?


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    #162
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    Who is taking over senior team from Peter Smyth at Rock?

    From what I heard in November/December he is only finishing up now. The original word I had gotten was no1 was joining this year. I'm sure someone will come in from next year.

    Probably not great to add a new head coach with his own ideas and shapes just before the cup anyway.


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    #163
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Vinnie Murray starts next week. Thoughts on each game.

    Connacht cup group stage starts Wednesday week.


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    #164
    bruski10
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭bruski10


    Heres my 2 cents worth for first round Vinnie Murray, having seen most of these teams play this season

    Castleknock by 15-20 pts v St Conleths
    Wilsons by 15-20 pts v Maynooth
    Skerries by 8-13 pts v High school
    St Fintans by 25-30 pts v Templeogue
    CUS by 2-5 pts v Pres Bray

    CBS Enniscorthy have conceeded again for the second year running. I understand their principle will not give the lads the time off to play afternoon games as alot of them are involved in several sports and as they have been involved since McMullen Cup they have missed too much school already. Same thing happened last year. They will however play Colaiste Bhride in the McMullen Cup Semi Final and this game could have doubled up as a 1st round Vinnie Murray Cup game but they have opted out of Vinnie Murray.


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    #165
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    bruski10 wrote: »
    Heres my 2 cents worth for first round Vinnie Murray, having seen most of these teams play this season

    Castleknock by 15-20 pts v St Conleths
    Wilsons by 15-20 pts v Maynooth
    Skerries by 8-13 pts v High school
    St Fintans by 25-30 pts v Templeogue
    CUS by 2-5 pts v Pres Bray

    CBS Enniscorthy have conceeded again for the second year running. I understand their principle will not give the lads the time off to play afternoon games as alot of them are involved in several sports and as they have been involved since McMullen Cup they have missed too much school already. Same thing happened last year. They will however play Colaiste Bhride in the McMullen Cup Semi Final and this game could have doubled up as a 1st round Vinnie Murray Cup game but they have opted out of Vinnie Murray.
    Wont try predict games..
    Shame abut enniscorthy pulling out of Vinnie Murray.

    Any thoughts on other cups/could thread title be edited to include other provinces??

    I know quite a few clubs have followed on from Donnybrook changing to a 4G surface but how many of the schools are changing a pitch(es) to 4G? Belvedere are changing one in Distillery Road but are any(many) others?


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    #166
    Bridge93
    Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    I always like when the other provinces cups are included on the same thread as Leinster. I don't have a clue about them so it interests me to hear about the goings on around the country and players to watch by 20s.


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    #167
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    I always like when the other provinces cups are included on the same thread as Leinster. I don't have a clue about them so it interests me to hear about the goings on around the country and players to watch by 20s.
    Will hopefully be refereeing some games in Connacht and already have seen a few sides play in Connacht league and a friendly or two. If not refereeing will be at games across the grades.
    Saw Sligo Grammar before christmas and they were fairly good. They won the league losing just once as well. Depending on fixture times etc may also be able to get to a Munster cup game or two..


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    #168
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Wont try predict games..
    Shame abut enniscorthy pulling out of Vinnie Murray.

    Any thoughts on other cups/could thread title be edited to include other provinces??

    I know quite a few clubs have followed on from Donnybrook changing to a 4G surface but how many of the schools are changing a pitch(es) to 4G? Belvedere are changing one in Distillery Road but are any(many) others?

    Michaels are putting one in as well. I think Rock might be as well. I know Belvo were using our one, Michaels have been using ours and Rock JCT are playing on ours at the weekend. I'll hopefully get down to Skerries v High School tomorrow to watch. I've heard good things about Skerries in particular their 10 is supposed to be very good.


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    #169
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    While sexy to call the new pitches 4G most of them are not including Donnybrook. The surface is one expense but the largest expense is what happens below the surface and to be considered 4G an awful amount of material has to be removed from the ground below and replaced with specific material so that in effect the shock absorption and the bounce test improve over a 3G. The extra money was not put into Donnybrook and is not rated as a 4G as are many of the other newly installed pitches. Check the insurance policy and you will see what it is rated and certified as. The RFU in England have rolled out a huge programme for new artificial pitches throughout the country providing grants and low cost financing to clubs and schools. It is the way forward as recent weather events will bear out.


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    #170
    bruski10
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭bruski10


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Michaels are putting one in as well. I think Rock might be as well. I know Belvo were using our one, Michaels have been using ours and Rock JCT are playing on ours at the weekend. I'll hopefully get down to Skerries v High School tomorrow to watch. I've heard good things about Skerries in particular their 10 is supposed to be very good.

    Unfortunately the skerries no 10 frawley, who was the leinster u19 outhalf during the interpros played in the AIL and cannot play in the Vinnie Murray Cup , just saw that on the leinster website. seems a bit unfair ? does this rule him out of the challenge cup should skerries qualify ? anyone know why this is the case ?


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    #171
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    bruski10 wrote: »
    Unfortunately the skerries no 10 frawley, who was the leinster u19 outhalf during the interpros played in the AIL and cannot play in the Vinnie Murray Cup, just saw that on the leinster website. seems a bit unfair? does this rule him out of the challenge cup should skerries qualify? anyone know why this is the case?
    There is a rule in age grade rugby that if one plays in 2 AIL matches or more that they would be ineligible for some competitions. Its the same in some youths competitions. Came in after Buccaneers won the all Ireland clubs u19 title in 2011 that had Jack Carty, Robbie Henshaw, Danny Qualter, Callum Boland all playing. Something like
    half a dozen of the team had played regularly with Buccaneers in the AIL that season and other provinces/clubs etc complained about it and the rules changed.


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    #172
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    There is a rule in age grade rugby that if one plays in 2 AIL matches or more that they would be ineligible for some competitions. Its the same in some youths competitions. Came in after Buccaneers won the all Ireland clubs u19 title in 2011 that had Jack Carty, Robbie Henshaw, Danny Qualter, Callum Boland all playing. Something like
    half a dozen of the team had played regularly with Buccaneers in the AIL that season and other provinces/clubs etc complained about it and the rules changed.

    Seems very harsh to me... Why not let them play both.


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    #173
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Seems very harsh to me... Why not let them play both.

    Totally agree if the player meets the age criteria then there should not be a problem, penalizing talented players seems daft. It is the age group games that the players really enjoy and gives them huge confidence to kick on to higher levels


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    #174
    rughug
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭rughug


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    Totally agree if the player meets the age criteria then there should not be a problem, penalizing talented players seems daft. It is the age group games that the players really enjoy and gives them huge confidence to kick on to higher levels

    " Penalising talented players seems daft " in much the same way take the situation that now exists whereby a teenager with an interest and willingness to become a better rugby player has to be in a school for 20 months not playing competitive rugby before he can play SCT for that school. There are numerous kids out in the wilds of West Munster and Connacht going to schools that have zero interest in promoting their sporting prowess and their parents may have an interest in making sacrifices to send them to a proper rugby school . Another farcical rule has just cut off that basic human right of becoming the best possible player that the young lad can become. The powers that be in the IRFU are not realising this.


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    #175
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Seems very harsh to me... Why not let them play both.
    Perhaps include a limit but 2 games is a bit much.
    rughug wrote: »
    " Penalising talented players seems daft " in much the same way take the situation that now exists whereby a teenager with an interest and willingness to become a better rugby player has to be in a school for 20 months not playing competitive rugby before he can play SCT for that school. There are numerous kids out in the wilds of West Munster and Connacht going to schools that have zero interest in promoting their sporting prowess and their parents may have an interest in making sacrifices to send them to a proper rugby school. Another farcical rule has just cut off that basic human right of becoming the best possible player that the young lad can become. The powers that be in the IRFU are not realising this.
    The 20 months rule is different. Those kids in "the wilds of West Munster and Connacht"(unfair to say) may attend schools with zero interest in playing rugby but they already play rugby in a club and why should they have to play their rugby in a school? Why should there be an obsession with playing in school. These kids shouldn't have to move school especially to a boarding/fee paying school to increase their chances of "making it" to the top level in rugby. That's just crazy.
    Those kids who have the talent will generally be in youths development/regional/provincial squads and playing high quality of rugby there.
    There is no human rights being denied here.


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    #176
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Perhaps include a limit but 2 games is a bit much.
    The 20 months rule is different. Those kids in "the wilds of West Munster and Connacht"(unfair to say) may attend schools with zero interest in playing rugby but they already play rugby in a club and why should they have to play their rugby in a school? Why should there be an obsession with playing in school. These kids shouldn't have to move school especially to a boarding/fee paying school to increase their chances of "making it" to the top level in rugby. That's just crazy.
    Those kids who have the talent will generally be in youths development/regional/provincial squads and playing high quality of rugby there.
    There is no human rights being denied here.

    Big difference between "have to" and "want to".


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    #177
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    its_phil wrote: »
    Big difference between "have to" and "want to".
    Of course you'll come in with ...
    The schools incentivise plenty to move to win a cup and this rule is to help stop schools doing that. That is better for the sport. Is better for kids already in the schools who would drop down teams because someone comes in. Its better for schools/clubs who lose a key player to another school. It helps maintain the two strands of age grade rugby that exist in the country


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    #178
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Of course you'll come in with ...
    The schools incentivise plenty to move to win a cup and this rule is to help stop schools doing that. That is better for the sport. Is better for kids already in the schools who would drop down teams because someone comes in. Its better for schools/clubs who lose a key player to another school. It helps maintain the two strands of age grade rugby that exist in the country

    Come in with what? The truth that club rugby is not as high a standard as schools? The truth that some kids move for educational reasons? I left Roscrea in 6th year and went to play with a Connacht club. 7 or 8 at training three times around Christmas when I joined. Played two games and both teams hungover from night before. It was embarrassing and I wasn't even a decent player at schools level. Had zero problem quitting and focusing on my Leaving. Has it improved since? I don't know, but that's my impression of underage club rugby. Junior club rugby better but again numbers are awful.

    That said decent numbers at my club for u17 team on Tuesday and Friday nights, but it doubles up as the schools team.

    You swear the schools have put a gun to the head of the player.


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    #179
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    its_phil wrote: »
    Come in with what? The truth that club rugby is not as high a standard as schools? The truth that some kids move for educational reasons? I left Roscrea in 6th year and went to play with a Connacht club. 7 or 8 at training three times around Christmas when I joined. Played two games and both teams hungover from night before. It was embarrassing and I wasn't even a decent player at schools level. Had zero problem quitting and focusing on my Leaving. Has it improved since? I don't know, but that's my impression of underage club rugby. Junior club rugby better but again numbers are awful.

    You swear the schools have put a gun to the head of the player.
    The schools come in offering the sun and the stars and push schools rugby as being so much more than it is. You come in with the usual...
    Yes some will move for educational reasons but you are very naïve if you believe all these talented rugby players move school for 6th year to a rugby playing school sometimes mid school year because of subject choice/education. They move to play schools cups. Your impression of underage club rugby is very far off from reality especially in progressive/strong clubs.


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    #180
    FrannoFan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    The schools come in offering the sun and the stars and push schools rugby as being so much more than it is. You come in with the usual...
    Yes some will move for educational reasons but you are very naïve if you believe all these talented rugby players move school for 6th year to a rugby playing school sometimes mid school year because of subject choice/education. They move to play schools cups. Your impression of underage club rugby is very far off from reality especially in progressive/strong clubs.

    Lost sheep it doesn't matter how good a club set up there is you can't compare training twice a week,with a game at weekend to the 5 day a week set up in schools.

    Some kids want to play that much, they want to play at the highest level they can, if some kid in the school drops down a team so be it-the schools have loads of teams and will still get to play (how many clubs can cater to the same?)
    If the club loses a player for 2 years in all likelihood he will go back to the club after if his experience there was a positive one.

    You seem to think the schools are out to plunder clubs when in reality there are many more children looking to move to play rugby compared to the handful that are so good that a big school actively pursues them. Even then they are not forced to go. read Dooley article this week, he says Roscrea wanted him to go, he wanted to stay, didn't go still making it. If he did want to change school should he be denied rugby?

    I know you won't change your opinion on this lost sheep but don't mistake your opinion with fact.


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    #181
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    The schools come in offering the sun and the stars and push schools rugby as being so much more than it is. You come in with the usual...
    Yes some will move for educational reasons but you are very naïve if you believe all these talented rugby players move school for 6th year to a rugby playing school sometimes mid school year because of subject choice/education. They move to play schools cups. Your impression of underage club rugby is very far off from reality especially in progressive/strong clubs.

    Usual what? Stop hiding behind your condecending dot dot dots you forever post on this forum and say it. Few weeks back refusing to post the fixture list to a user and using those dot dot dots was as arrogant a post I've seen

    And your impression of boarding schools is very far off if you think they all move for the cup. Parents and kids no where near as incentivised as you think. 14k doesn't just get written off that easy. I've never pretended they haven't moved for rugby reasons, but to 90% of those parents sending their sons it is a massive financial commitment.

    Played at one of the three strongest club in Connacht and got that impression. The mate who went up with me from Clongowes went training on Thursday and started 10 on Sunday! I'm sure it's changed since but it's naive to think numbers of 7/8 at training are not happening at clubs.

    I'm very confident there are strong clubs out there but is every single one? Nope (just like schools) and if one kid is talented at an uncommitted team, he needs to get the hell out of there. Talented and at a commited team training 3-4 times a week and can field a regular XV, delighted to see them stay at the club game.


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