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General Rugby Discussion

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    #7652
    FellasFellas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭FellasFellas


    FACECUTTR wrote: »
    360kg if I'm correct. Warm up weights lads....

    How in the name of god do you get 360 there..


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    #7653
    FACECUTTR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭FACECUTTR


    FellasFellas wrote: »
    How in the name of god do you get 360 there..[/quote


    Good question lol


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    #7654
    nehe milner skudder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭nehe milner skudder


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Not really that strong. 100Kgs or thereabouts? Just a cowardly cnut.

    Cian Healy would lift that with one arm :D

    ?width=630&version=2357963

    i wouldn't say cowardly. he certainly didn't look one bit afraid.

    unsavoury yes. cowardly no.

    cowards are not normally captain material.


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    #7655
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    nehe milner skudder wrote: »
    i wouldn't say cowardly. he certainly didn't look one bit afraid.

    unsavoury yes. cowardly no.

    cowards are not normally captain material.
    Bollocks. Of course it's cowardly. It isn't UFC, Best was defenceless; nobody takes to a rugby pitch with the expectation of being lifted up and thrown to the ground off the ball and unprovoked. Only a coward takes that kind of cheap shot.


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    #7656
    FellasFellas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭FellasFellas


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Bollocks. Of course it's cowardly. It isn't UFC, Best was defenceless; nobody takes to a rugby pitch with the expectation of being lifted up and thrown to the ground off the ball and unprovoked. Only a coward takes that kind of cheap shot.

    You do know we're playing rugby? Foul play and these kind of things are part of the game unfortunately. It doesn't make Kiripati a coward by any sense of the word; he may be thick and evidently dim by what he did but I've met him before, he's a very nice man, obviously one of the toughest operators around as well but this was very poor from him. Nobody takes to the rugby pitch expecting to be taken out in the air when jumping for a ball but it happens.


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    #7657
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    FellasFellas wrote: »
    You do know we're playing rugby? Foul play and these kind of things are part of the game unfortunately. It doesn't make Kiripati a coward by any sense of the word; he may be thick and evidently dim by what he did but I've met him before, he's a very nice man, obviously one of the toughest operators around as well but this was very poor from him. Nobody takes to the rugby pitch expecting to be taken out in the air when jumping for a ball but it happens.

    Best wasnt anywhere near the ball?


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    #7658
    FellasFellas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭FellasFellas


    Stheno wrote: »
    Best wasnt anywhere near the ball?

    I was using the taking out jumping for the ball as an example as something you dont expect to happen on a pitch. Clearly it's foul play and stupid, but coward is completely the wrong word to use.


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    #7659
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    FellasFellas wrote: »
    You do know we're playing rugby? Foul play and these kind of things are part of the game unfortunately. It doesn't make Kiripati a coward by any sense of the word; he may be thick and evidently dim by what he did but I've met him before, he's a very nice man, obviously one of the toughest operators around as well but this was very poor from him. Nobody takes to the rugby pitch expecting to be taken out in the air when jumping for a ball but it happens.

    He's close to twice his size. I'd call the act itself cowardly as he wouldn't try it against someone his own size


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    #7660
    FellasFellas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭FellasFellas


    Synode wrote: »
    He's close to twice his size. I'd call the act itself cowardly as he wouldn't try it against someone his own size

    Not even going to dignify that with a response to be honest..you sound like a primary school teacher giving out to a kid. Mark Best is well able to handle himself, I've seen him play many times; tough tough player. In this instance, yes he was in vulnerable position; Kiripati picks him up and drops him. Yellow, probably a red judging by the fact it was off the ball. I don't think Bests head ever hits the ground, he lands on his side and looks like his neck kind of whips which is probably the precaution. Obviously happy he's alright and Kiripati should get a ban, bit ridiculous that that rule is in place to be honest.


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    #7661
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Hurricanes player still recovering from concussion 15 months down the line. Crazy how random it is.

    http://www.hurricanes.co.nz/the-canes/news/single/item/james-broadhurst-to-continue-rehab-on-his-own-terms/


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    #7662
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Apparently there'll be a verdict today on whether Northampton were negligent or not. The stuff about not having all the camera angles has been disputed by BT too. This is all from The Guardian.


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    #7663
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Apparently there'll be a verdict today on whether Northampton were negligent or not. The stuff about not having all the camera angles has been disputed by BT too. This is all from The Guardian.

    It will be tricky enough to prove undoubted negligence on the basis of what we've seen and heard to date. There's a large amount of evidence to suggest they were negligent but there's also an element of "This is our story. Prove it's not true".


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    #7664
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Buer wrote: »
    It will be tricky enough to prove undoubted negligence on the basis of what we've seen and heard to date. There's a large amount of evidence to suggest they were negligent but there's also an element of "This is our story. Prove it's not true".

    The guidelines apparently say anyone suspected of being knocked out should be removed from the game. I don't think it's too hard to show he was suspected of being knocked out.

    They can have their story but you can't just leave this in the hands of the clubs and talk their word for it, because it's been clearly shown in the past that guys will end up back on the pitch when they shouldn't be. That's the whole point of these bodies I would have thought.


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    #7665
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    The guidelines apparently say anyone suspected of being knocked out should be removed from the game. I don't think it's too hard to show he was suspected of being knocked out.

    They can have their story but you can't just leave this in the hands of the clubs and talk their word for it, because it's been clearly shown in the past that guys will end up back on the pitch when they shouldn't be. That's the whole point of these bodies I would have thought.

    Except you're not dealing in the same realm of reality that body has to. The body will be listening to all the evidence and everyone's testimony rather than relying on assumptions and articles in the daily mail and guardian.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of this end up coming down to the new technology. It could be malicious on the part of Northampton but Ill believe that when I see it. If it is ruled that way there'll be careers on the line.


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    #7666
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,085 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    FellasFellas wrote: »
    Kiripati picks him up and drops him.

    he absolutely does not 'drop' him.... he actively and forcefully throws him downwards into the ground
    FellasFellas wrote: »
    I don't think Bests head ever hits the ground

    first point. hes thrown with so much force that the speed of his head hitting the ground and bouncing off it is so fast its hard to make out in the clip.
    second point. it doesnt matter one iota whether his head hits the ground or not. many a serious concussion is caused by whiplash action where theres no head impact.

    as this is a premeditated deliberate act i cant see how anyone can even argue that a yellow was sufficient


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    #7667
    b.gud
    Registered Users Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭b.gud


    The new president of French rugby, Bernard Laporte, is looking at bringing in a shirt sponsorship deal for the national team.

    Shame I always liked that French jerseys didn't have any sponsorship

    https://twitter.com/gavinmortimer7/status/807137910147448832


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    #7668
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    FellasFellas wrote: »
    Not even going to dignify that with a response to be honest..you sound like a primary school teacher giving out to a kid.

    And you sound like the type of person who'd stand by and watch their kid bully another kid while saying "boys will be boys".

    He's twice the size of Best. He picked him up and knowingly threw him at the ground. Despicable behaviour that deserves the book thrown at him. I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near a pitch with players like that - same team or opposition


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    #7669
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Except you're not dealing in the same realm of reality that body has to. The body will be listening to all the evidence and everyone's testimony rather than relying on assumptions and articles in the daily mail and guardian.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of this end up coming down to the new technology. It could be malicious on the part of Northampton but Ill believe that when I see it. If it is ruled that way there'll be careers on the line.

    I'd expect them to get off with a warning in relation to their vigilance simply on the basis that we can't say definitively that they're lying.

    All evidence available to the public combined with BT coming forward to say they made anything available suggests that they're either telling fibs or were seriously incompetent. The fact that the big screens repeatedly show a strong suggestion that North was unconscious (whether he was or not) really gives Northampton a very unsteady position. World Rugby guidelines advise that suspected loss of consciousness, lying motionless or neck pain are all signs of a concussion.

    But it's going to be difficult to prove and, as you say, if they do say they there was incompetence then it would have very serious ramifications for the medical professionals involved. Thus I think they'll give a warning and seek to review the protocols further.


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    #7670
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Buer wrote: »
    I'd expect them to get off with a warning in relation to their vigilance simply on the basis that we can't say definitively that they're lying.

    All evidence available to the public combined with BT coming forward to say they made anything available suggests that they're either telling fibs or were seriously incompetent. The fact that the big screens repeatedly show a strong suggestion that North was unconscious (whether he was or not) really gives Northampton a very unsteady position. World Rugby guidelines advise that suspected loss of consciousness, lying motionless or neck pain are all signs of a concussion.

    But it's going to be difficult to prove and, as you say, if they do say they there was incompetence then it would have very serious ramifications for the medical professionals involved. Thus I think they'll give a warning and seek to review the protocols further.

    Well firstly on the BT thing, I think if BT really wanted to say something about this then an unnamed source in a Daily Mail article is probably not how they'd go about it given who they are.

    I think there's a genuine possibility that the angle you're referring to wasn't looked at by the medical staff. It could come down to something as simple as them thinking that the new video software they have been working with since September had access to all of the angles (IE an unknown unknown as Rumsfeld would call it). Given that there's supposed to be an individual tasked with watching this footage I can't see any other sort of explanation (other than incompetence).


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    #7671
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Synode wrote: »
    And you sound like the type of person who'd stand by and watch their kid bully another kid while saying "boys will be boys".

    He's twice the size of Best. He picked him up and knowingly threw him at the ground. Despicable behaviour that deserves the book thrown at him. I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near a pitch with players like that - same team or opposition

    Why do you keep saying he's twice the size? He pretty clearly isn't. It's high enough level rugby, you can expect to be on the pitch with guys bigger than you. I'm sure he'll get a ban anyway, it's obviously not something that should be tolerated.


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    #7672
    FellasFellas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭FellasFellas


    Synode wrote: »
    And you sound like the type of person who'd stand by and watch their kid bully another kid while saying "boys will be boys".

    He's twice the size of Best. He picked him up and knowingly threw him at the ground. Despicable behaviour that deserves the book thrown at him. I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near a pitch with players like that - same team or opposition

    How dare you comment on how I parent my kids. You have no idea what you're talking about. I would never 'stand by' and watch my kid bully another one because that just wouldn't happen in the first place. Were you bullied as a kid or something and hold onto whatever bitter memories you have? And has just been said, he is not twice his size. Get over yourself. Take your kids to go play badminton if you're so worried about what monsters they may come up against.


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    #7673
    FellasFellas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭FellasFellas


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    he absolutely does not 'drop' him.... he actively and forcefully throws him downwards into the ground



    first point. hes thrown with so much force that the speed of his head hitting the ground and bouncing off it is so fast its hard to make out in the clip.
    second point. it doesnt matter one iota whether his head hits the ground or not. many a serious concussion is caused by whiplash action where theres no head impact.

    as this is a premeditated deliberate act i cant see how anyone can even argue that a yellow was sufficient

    Premeditated? Are you for real? Do you think he went out on that pitch primarily to get into an off the ball with Mark Best? I fully support that he should get a ban but genuinely, some of the views on this incident just seem so far fetched.


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    #7674
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Synode, FellasFellas, cool it a bit please. Don't get personal with one another.


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    #7675
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    FellasFellas wrote: »
    Premeditated? Are you for real? Do you think he went out on that pitch primarily to get into an off the ball with Mark Best? I fully support that he should get a ban but genuinely, some of the views on this incident just seem so far fetched.

    He means he intentionally lifted Best with the intention of throwing him into the ground, which is certainly what it looked like to me.

    He should receive a very lengthy ban and it was certainly a red card.


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    #7676
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Why do you keep saying he's twice the size? He pretty clearly isn't. It's high enough level rugby, you can expect to be on the pitch with guys bigger than you. I'm sure he'll get a ban anyway, it's obviously not something that should be tolerated.

    Yeah fair enough. I just meant he's a lot bigger than him. It was a cheap, cowardly shot in my opinion and I'll leave it at that.

    According to that Belfast Telegraph article he won't get any further punishment which is disgraceful


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    #7677
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Synode wrote: »
    According to that Belfast Telegraph article he won't get any further punishment which is disgraceful

    It's the system unfortunately..

    Basically , there are only 2 people that can sanction a player during or after a game. The Ref and a Match Citing commissioner if one exists..

    So for example , Fekitoa got a Yellow from the Ref , but the Citing commisioner took action and he got upgraded to a Red card after the fact along with a ban.

    In this case , the ref gave a Yellow at the time and in the absence of a Match Commissioner , that's that sadly..

    Unless we have citing commissioners at every game things like this will happen every now and again unfortunately..


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    #7678
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    We can't just accept that these things can happen and he'll slip through the cracks. The rules need to be changed so that a disciplinary review is possible after every match


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    #7679
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Synode wrote: »
    We can't just accept that these things can happen and he'll slip through the cracks. The rules need to be changed so that a disciplinary review is possible after every match

    Things happen in lower level rugby, it's a fact of the sport. These matches aren't filmed from every angle, I'd guess many aren't filmed at all. You change the rules, then you've no footage, then what?


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    #7680
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    Synode wrote: »
    We can't just accept that these things can happen and he'll slip through the cracks. The rules need to be changed so that a disciplinary review is possible after every match

    Not doable as you would have to have cameras at every game.


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    #7681
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Things happen in lower level rugby, it's a fact of the sport. These matches aren't filmed from every angle, I'd guess many aren't filmed at all. You change the rules, then you've no footage, then what?

    Then he gets off as there's no clear evidence. But in cases such as this one where there is clear evidence of serious foul play then there should be an avenue to review it.


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