If your car broke down on the motorway...

elperello · 18-01-2019 11:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I broke down on a motorway last Summer.

First thing i did? I phoned the guards alerting them to my predicament. I broke down on the over-taking lane.

They advised me to try and get the car into the hard shoulder- they had no-one to attend.

I eventually got the car onto the hard shoulder. All my own work. With passengers. Piece of sh1te support from Gardai - sorry piss off. It could have been so much worse - it wasn't in this case. But seriously this wasn't treated as an actual emergency event. Pizz off guards!

That's bad.
Just the sort of thing I was saying in previous post.
We need to up our game in motorway management.

18-01-2019 11:38pm

Going back a few years now , but something similar happened to me on a busy national route , nothing like the M50 but scary none the less. I was 18-19 at the time so not long with a license and driving my dads car which was a second hand Sunny we'd only had a few months.

I'd a pal with me in the passenger seat and the car just came to a complete stop with an electrical smell. This was just before mobiles became common so we had to put the hazards on and go to the nearest house and call the Gardai and my pal went up the road a bit to gesture to cars to slow, was during the day.

What happened? My pal stretched his legs and hit an immobilizer switch that was in the passenger side footwell that previous owner had neglected to tell the garage about and as a result us, One of those 'what are the chances' things. But I remember being completely terrified some one would crash into it and be hurt or worse.

Just a memory reading about this tragedy brought back to me.

18-01-2019 11:39pm

elperello wrote: »

That's bad.
Just the sort of thing I was saying in previous post.
We need to up our game in motorway management.

It totally freaked me out. But I was prepared to do what it took. But the attitude of the guards took me more aback in some respects, than the experience itself of being stranded on the over-taking lane. It's freaky out there on a motorway when you're static and indisposed.

DaveyDave · 18-01-2019 11:44pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It totally freaked me out. But I was prepared to do what it took. But the attitude of the guards took me more aback in some respects, than the experience itself of being stranded on the over-taking lane. It's freaky out there on a motorway when you're static and indisposed.

They're understaffed and probably had cars out on other jobs. They can't drop everything because your car broke down on the motorway. It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.

elperello · 18-01-2019 11:48pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

They're understaffed and probably had cars out on other jobs. They can't drop everything because your car broke down on the motorway. It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.

That's true.
So knowing that we just don't have the resources to run the motorways to an acceptable standard we need to be extra vigilant.

18-01-2019 11:52pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

They're understaffed and probably had cars out on other jobs. They can't drop everything because your car broke down on the motorway. It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.

Have you actually read the OP link? In any way at all?

Because if you have, maybe that' exactly what they should be doing now.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/suspended-sentence-for-truck-driver-who-caused-motorists-death-in-m50-accident-898455.html

CJhaughey · 18-01-2019 11:54pm

The management of motorways and removal of broken down vehicles should be the operators responsibility in this case the m50 toll should have towage available at any point in time and there should be SOS phones along the route.
It shouldn’t be up to the Gardaí to attend breakdowns.

18-01-2019 11:58pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

The management of motorways and removal of broken down vehicles should be the operators responsibility in this case the m50 toll should have towage available at any point in time and there should be SOS phones along the route.
It shouldn’t be up to the Gardaí to attend breakdowns.

Until it goes all legal and then they're all over it like a rash and spouting their view around what should have been done blah blah blah- it's all very well after the event. We can all do the armchair diagnostics at that stage.

elperello · 19-01-2019 12:03am

The safe removal of a vehicle disabled in the overtaking lane of a busy motorway is one heck of a complicated dangerous operation.
Can't be achieved by a tow truck driver on his own.
The traffic has to be managed by trained personnel.
The Gardai are all we have at the moment and as has been said they they are understaffed.

tomoliver · 19-01-2019 12:07am

in 100 years time there'll be no such thing as collisions

Cerco · 19-01-2019 12:08am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

One recommendation that should have come out of it is the need to have a Hi Viz vest in every car when travelling on a motorway, not saying it would have saved her if she exitted the vehicle but it would have made her much more visible if she had to. I know they are mandatory in France.

I have one in the boot...😮 .not much use there in this kind of situation. Will move to under driver seat tomorrow. Thanks.AD.

19-01-2019 12:15am

Cerco wrote: »

I have one in the boot...😮 .not much use there in this kind of situation. Will move to under driver seat tomorrow. Thanks.AD.

I had two in my glove compartment. I had four passengers in my car at the time of breakdown. It's absolutely great that you've been made more aware of what you need in such a situation. but don't count on this being made an "emergency situation"- because likelihood is it won't.
So good luck with dealing with the situation yourself.

V8 Interceptor · 19-01-2019 1:01am

TheChizler wrote: »

Miss the bit where they said the car had lost power?

Yep. Apologies. Just re-read it.

V8 Interceptor · 19-01-2019 1:03am

Heroditas wrote: »

It was 5am. I'm often on the M50 at that time. There's some traffic on it but it's certainly possible to run across to the hard shoulder. It's in the record that she was there for quite a while.

Only thing I can think of is she was wheelchair bound or she was very old and scared.

V8 Interceptor · 19-01-2019 1:11am

tomoliver wrote: »

in 100 years time there'll be no such thing as collisions

That's very helpful Tom

deandean · 19-01-2019 1:54am

What surprised me about this sad story is that the car survived for 17 minutes on a motorway lane, in heavy rain, before another vehicle hit it!
If you ever find yourself in that situation, dial 999 immediately and tell the Gardai.

19-01-2019 2:13am

deandean wrote: »

What surprised me about this sad story is that the car survived for 17 minutes on a motorway lane, in heavy rain, before another vehicle hit it!
If you ever find yourself in that situation, dial 999 immediately and tell the Gardai.

Who will do absolutely fck all in my experience

Hellrazer · 19-01-2019 2:22am

antodeco wrote: »

Aren't there some places on the M50 were the central median is just a single wall meaning nowhere to stand?

Where this happened there is just a single wall--There is no central median.

I don't think the woman had either enough gaps in traffic to run across 3 lanes or decided not to head for the middle wall.It doesn't say which lane she broke down in though.
She may have been physically unable to run across any of the lanes.

Either way it was unlucky to break down at that time--had it been later the traffic would have been heavier and slower.

She had 17 minutes--had she called the garda immediately they would have been there probably within 5 minutes or else the m50 services would have made it as they are based less than 1km from where it happened.

19-01-2019 2:34am

Hellrazer wrote: »

She had 17 minutes--had she called the garda immediately they would have been there probably within 5 minutes or else the m50 services would have made it as they are based less than 1km from where it happened.

Good luck with your "5 minutes"

Charles Babbage · 19-01-2019 2:49am

If the person was disabled and had difficulty leaving the vehicle, the Fire Brigade might have been an option.

Zatoichi · 19-01-2019 3:13am

Anyone know why they put up these barriers along the M50 effectively preventing people from accessing the hard shoulder at points?

DubInTheWest · 19-01-2019 3:53am

Yes not good if you break down on the motorway. I got a flat a few weeks ago on a motorway in Galway, the hard shoulder was tiny. I changed the tyre myself but had issues, hard to get the wheel off. After jacking up, I had to let it down and wriggle the steering wheel to loosen the wheel and then jack it up again and changed the tyre. Horrible with cars and trucks zipping past, and all I could think was why is this hard should so small. Wasn't sorry to be done and dusted and get out of there.

In regards to the OP, I think it was hard on the truck driver. In all my time driving over the years, I've never seen a stationary vehicle in the middle of the road, so wouldn't be expecting it. If it was another car that hit it, could have been more fatalities. Never mind ringing the insurance company they should have called gardai, firebrigade (999) and reported it to have it blocked off properly.

Poll Dubh · 19-01-2019 4:45am

17 minutes also happens to be the average response time of the M50 recovery service

https://www.m50concession.com/operation-maintenance/emergency-response/

Sam Quentin · 19-01-2019 4:57am

Harsh on the truck driver..I feel he has suffered enough, the 4yr ban is totally life changing for that guy. No mention of drink, no mention of speeding, no mention of phone etc.. nothing,, just a terrible accident that could happen to anyone in those particular circumstances and weather conditions.

TeaBagMania · 19-01-2019 6:17am

Isambard wrote: »

there are exceptions and this is one

What exceptions?

At motorway speeds you have more than enough momentum to coast to the shoulder

TeaBagMania · 19-01-2019 6:22am

RustyNut wrote: »

A compitent driver should be expecting the unexpected and always be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. Motorway or not.

Wrong, no one is ever expecting a stopped vehicle in the middle of the "motorway"

does it happen? yes and i have seen it once in my life and that vehicle was near the shoulder.

On a clear perfect day you could see and avoid, but in any other than perfect weather its a disaster waiting to happen

freddyuk · 19-01-2019 7:34am

TeaBagMania wrote: »

Wrong, no one is ever expecting a stopped vehicle in the middle of the "motorway"

does it happen? yes and i have seen it once in my life and that vehicle was near the shoulder.

On a clear perfect day you could see and avoid, but in any other than perfect weather its a disaster waiting to happen

Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary.

It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

McCrack · 19-01-2019 9:21am

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Harsh on the truck driver..I feel he has suffered enough, the 4yr ban is totally life changing for that guy. No mention of drink, no mention of speeding, no mention of phone etc.. nothing,, just a terrible accident that could happen to anyone in those particular circumstances and weather conditions.

You can't say that without the benefit of statements and forensic collision report

Isambard · 19-01-2019 9:54am

TeaBagMania wrote: »

What exceptions?

At motorway speeds you have more than enough momentum to coast to the shoulder

and if a wheel falls off? there must be many occasions when a car could stop on the carriageway, not every driver would be able to cope and it's quite possible they could panic and just hit the brakes.

kirving · 19-01-2019 11:01am

freddyuk wrote: »

Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary.

It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

I guarantee you that no matter how safe you think you drive, you could not stop in time on a motorway in medium to heavy traffic, if the car in front made an emergency stop. If you leave a gap, it will just be filled by someone else.

There's a very good reason you're not allowed to stop on a motorway. It's also the reason thay the advice is to leave the car immediately and get behind the barrier.

To be honest you'd be very lucky to stop in a housing estate if a child you weren't aware of ran out from behind a car at night. Unless you actually drive at 5kph.

There's has to be a reasonable expectation that others will conform to the same behaviour appropriate for the road type that you're on, otherwise noone would get anywhere.

Recently I got a flat on the motorway (hilly, twisty M17). Luckily it was quiet enough and sunny. I had just passed an exit so knew it was far to the next one.

I drove on the flat tyre until I came to the crest of a hill where I knew they car could be seen from much further away. Destroyed the tyre but it was a hell of a lot safer that stopping on an unsighted right hand curve on the road.

Also set up the warning triangle about 150m back up the road and set up warning lights (Powerflares,like what the Gards use at checkpoints) despite it being good weather. After the tyre sealent didn't work, I walked up the embankment and called the tyre company.

The motorway maintenance guy saw me broken down and knowing how dangerous it still was set up more cones and the full light set on the back of his van. Very few cars pulled over the right lane to give more room even though it was quiet. Scary place to be if you were sat in the car.

Auguste Comte · 19-01-2019 11:52am

TeaBagMania wrote: »

Isambard wrote: »

there are exceptions and this is one

What exceptions?

At motorway speeds you have more than enough momentum to coast to the shoulder

That would depend on what went wrong with the car. A ceized gearbox won't let you coast too far.

Isambard · 19-01-2019 12:25pm

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I guarantee you that no matter how safe you think you drive, you could not stop in time on a motorway in medium to heavy traffic, if the car in front made an emergency stop. If you leave a gap, it will just be filled by someone else.

There's a very good reason you're not allowed to stop on a motorway. It's also the reason thay the advice is to leave the car immediately and get behind the barrier.

To be honest you'd be very lucky to stop in a housing estate if a child you weren't aware of ran out from behind a car at night. Unless you actually drive at 5kph.

There's has to be a reasonable expectation that others will conform to the same behaviour appropriate for the road type that you're on, otherwise noone would get anywhere.

Recently I got a flat on the motorway (hilly, twisty M17). Luckily it was quiet enough and sunny. I had just passed an exit so knew it was far to the next one.

I drove on the flat tyre until I came to the crest of a hill where I knew they car could be seen from much further away. Destroyed the tyre but it was a hell of a lot safer that stopping on an unsighted right hand curve on the road.

Also set up the warning triangle about 150m back up the road and set up warning lights (Powerflares,like what the Gards use at checkpoints) despite it being good weather. After the tyre sealent didn't work, I walked up the embankment and called the tyre company.

The motorway maintenance guy saw me broken down and knowing how dangerous it still was set up more cones and the full light set on the back of his van. Very few cars pulled over the right lane to give more room even though it was quiet. Scary place to be if you were sat in the car.

I think it is recommended that you don't set up warning triangles on the motorway and get off the carriageway as afar as you can straight away

whiskeyman · 19-01-2019 12:34pm

Frightening reading through this thread on the varied opinions on what to do.
Says alot about driver education in the country.

elperello · 19-01-2019 12:59pm

A vehicle disabled in a driving lane of a motorway is a full scale emergency.
Even if the driver and passengers have managed to evacuate to a safe place the vehicle poses an immediate threat to other road users.

kirving · 19-01-2019 1:02pm

Isambard wrote: »

I think it is recommended that you don't set up warning triangles on the motorway and get off the carriageway as afar as you can straight away

On a busy road I probably wouldn't do it, but moreso that a pedestrian, even behind the barrier would distract drivers and cause them to do something unexpected.

Walked back behind the barrier and only crossed out to set up the triangle and light when I could see I had more than enough time. Being on the crest of a hill meant good visibility.

V8 Interceptor · 19-01-2019 2:07pm

freddyuk wrote: »

Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary. It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

C'mon man. In torrential rain on the outer lane of a Motorway? Its difficult for artic lorry drivers at the best of times. One can easily see how this could happen.

Cartroubles · 19-01-2019 2:50pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

C'mon man. In torrential rain on the outer lane of a Motorway? Its difficult for artic lorry drivers at the best of times. One can easily see how this could happen.

Generally you would drastically decrease speed in torrential rain as your stopping distance becomes greater. It's one of the first things you learn.

It's unlucky for the lorry the driver, but other vehicles avoided the collision, he should have too. Punishment is appropriate imo.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 3:16pm

elperello wrote: »

For instance they make good use of overhead gantry warnings to let you know there is an accident/incident ahead.

I find the gantry warnings here to be generally useless beyond letting you know SOMETHING has happened ahead - no indication of what lane is affected, they'll tell you the minor road but not the junction number etc.

Then there's those mobile signs (the big orange led ones that are often around roadworks). Great idea but become completely ineffective when you see them being used as advertising billboards by some local shop etc

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 3:23pm

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I guarantee you that no matter how safe you think you drive, you could not stop in time on a motorway in medium to heavy traffic, if the car in front made an emergency stop. If you leave a gap, it will just be filled by someone else.

There's a very good reason you're not allowed to stop on a motorway. It's also the reason thay the advice is to leave the car immediately and get behind the barrier.

To be honest you'd be very lucky to stop in a housing estate if a child you weren't aware of ran out from behind a car at night. Unless you actually drive at 5kph.

There's has to be a reasonable expectation that others will conform to the same behaviour appropriate for the road type that you're on, otherwise noone would get anywhere.

Recently I got a flat on the motorway (hilly, twisty M17). Luckily it was quiet enough and sunny. I had just passed an exit so knew it was far to the next one.

I drove on the flat tyre until I came to the crest of a hill where I knew they car could be seen from much further away. Destroyed the tyre but it was a hell of a lot safer that stopping on an unsighted right hand curve on the road.

Also set up the warning triangle about 150m back up the road and set up warning lights (Powerflares,like what the Gards use at checkpoints) despite it being good weather. After the tyre sealent didn't work, I walked up the embankment and called the tyre company.

The motorway maintenance guy saw me broken down and knowing how dangerous it still was set up more cones and the full light set on the back of his van. Very few cars pulled over the right lane to give more room even though it was quiet. Scary place to be if you were sat in the car.

Yea, I find most drivers will continue at speed past a stopped car with maybe only a metre or so between them. It's probably the same types who see cars merging ahead of them but stay put until they're alongside those cars and one of them has to back off as the merging lane ends.

Me I always move out if I see something stopped - you never know when someone might choose that moment to get out - and equally I move over to allow others merge at junctions.

Isambard · 19-01-2019 4:41pm

the merge thing: It's up to the merging driver to adjust his position by either slowing or accelerating.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 4:53pm

Isambard wrote: »

the merge thing: It's up to the merging driver to adjust his position by either slowing or accelerating.

That's grand if you're not stuck behind some dawdling idiot doing around 80 as they trundle down the slip road into the path of a truck in lane 1 (increasingly common in my experience), or if you don't have some idiot in lane 1 trying to cut you off so you don't get ahead of them, or who will allow a blockage to occur at the end of the slip road because they won't move over when there's no reason not to.

elperello · 19-01-2019 4:56pm

Defensive driving is best in these situations.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 5:02pm

elperello wrote: »

Defensive driving is best in these situations.

Reading the road, the behaviour, picking your spot, and a 3L Quattro helps too

freddyuk · 19-01-2019 5:30pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

C'mon man. In torrential rain on the outer lane of a Motorway? Its difficult for artic lorry drivers at the best of times. One can easily see how this could happen.

Driving so fast that you know you cannot stop in the distance that you can actually see ahead is reckless. It's amazing how many posters feel this is normal and acceptable. If you imagine there is a brick wall just beyond the point that you can see ahead can you stop before you hit it? If not then clearly you are driving in the hope and belief the road ahead is clear or you just have suicidal tendencies.

minikin · 19-01-2019 5:32pm

Sympathies are with the truck driver here.

Had a break down (clutch burned out) & started losing power on the m50 just before Blanchardstown merge around 8pm on a dark wet November night last year. I generally drive in the leftermost lane as I call it, so was able to pull into a part of the hard shoulder that also had an extra inset for emergency / breakdown vehicles. Got hi-vis vests and torches out for myself and daughter and got behind the barrier - there was no way in feck I was risking remaining in a stationary vehicle the other side of a hard shoulder even if there was even the slightest possibility of a vehicle impacting it. The excellent M50 recovery arrived in under 10 mins (quick google) and brought us safely to next exit where the insurance recovery collected us within an hour.

Can’t understand how someone would choose to remain in a stopped vehicle in a driving or overtaking lane of a motorway... can’t fathom how they could not make it into the hard shoulder at the very least... even if you entirely lost power you would still have forward momentum for a few hundred metres.

Every M50 user should stick this in their phone:
M50 24 HOUR RECOVERY
1800 77 50 50

redcup342 · 19-01-2019 5:43pm

freddyuk wrote: »

Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary.

It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

Man I hope it never happens to you, driving on a motorway where you are not expecting anything to be stopped it's really easy to see a car in front of you but for your brain to understand THE CAR IS NOT MOVING is something that takes you a second or two longer.

It has happened to me, car stopped in the overtaking lane.

Thought process:
That car looks like its stopped in the overtaking lane
**** I should stop
Wait I i hit the brakes now I could cause a pileup
Is it really stopped?

Oh shhiiiiittt, slam on brakes.

JJJJNR · 19-01-2019 5:48pm

This is very sad and i find it hard to have no sympathy with the truck driver at all. However he gets to live his life see his kids, get another job and eventually move on. He admitted he wasn't concentrating, thats straight up manslaughter imo. We have all driven is epic downpours and even then we can see ahead for miles and miles, he is higher up so can see further ahead .

martingriff · 19-01-2019 6:17pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

In 17 minutes at 5 in the morning I'm sure there was plenty of chances to get out and get to the barrier.

Sitting in a stationary car in the middle of the motorway in the rain was about the worst option to take.

If I was in that car I couldn't have done it. Now my reason are different from hers. I do not think I be able to get my door open wheelchair out on it and over to the hard shoulder. It is nigh on impossible to say why she did not do it

Auguste Comte · 19-01-2019 7:27pm

redcup342 wrote: »

freddyuk wrote: »

Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary.

It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

Man I hope it never happens to you, driving on a motorway where you are not expecting anything to be stopped it's really easy to see a car in front of you but for your brain to understand THE CAR IS NOT MOVING is something that takes you a second or two longer.

It has happened to me, car stopped in the overtaking lane.

Thought process:
That car looks like its stopped in the overtaking lane
**** I should stop
Wait I i hit the brakes now I could cause a pileup
Is it really stopped?

Oh shhiiiiittt, slam on brakes.

Did you manage to get it stopped?

Guy:Incognito · 19-01-2019 7:33pm

martingriff wrote: »

If I was in that car I couldn't have done it. Now my reason are different from hers. I do not think I be able to get my door open wheelchair out on it and over to the hard shoulder. It is nigh on impossible to say why she did not do it

Youd probably fair better tbh, even struggling with the wheelchair. It's pretty much a countdown to getting hit. Definitely a lot closer to when than if. Anyway, in this case, there's nothing to suggest anything stioped her getting to safety other than common sense.

Plus, let's be honest here, like most of the dopes driving on the m50, she was probably in the middle or outside lane with an empty lane to her left. Unless the car immediately seized and screeched ro a stop, you should be able to coast across 1 lane to safety. Dawdling in the middle lane makes it twice as hard when something happens.

If your car broke down on the motorway...

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