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If your car broke down on the motorway...

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    #122
    Zatoichi
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Zatoichi


    Anyone know why they put up these barriers along the M50 effectively preventing people from accessing the hard shoulder at points?

    6yflm9.jpg


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    #123
    DubInTheWest
    Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭DubInTheWest


    Yes not good if you break down on the motorway. I got a flat a few weeks ago on a motorway in Galway, the hard shoulder was tiny. I changed the tyre myself but had issues, hard to get the wheel off. After jacking up, I had to let it down and wriggle the steering wheel to loosen the wheel and then jack it up again and changed the tyre. Horrible with cars and trucks zipping past, and all I could think was why is this hard should so small. Wasn't sorry to be done and dusted and get out of there.

    In regards to the OP, I think it was hard on the truck driver. In all my time driving over the years, I've never seen a stationary vehicle in the middle of the road, so wouldn't be expecting it. If it was another car that hit it, could have been more fatalities. Never mind ringing the insurance company they should have called gardai, firebrigade (999) and reported it to have it blocked off properly.


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    #124
    Poll Dubh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭Poll Dubh


    17 minutes also happens to be the average response time of the M50 recovery service

    https://www.m50concession.com/operation-maintenance/emergency-response/


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    #125
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    Harsh on the truck driver..I feel he has suffered enough, the 4yr ban is totally life changing for that guy. No mention of drink, no mention of speeding, no mention of phone etc.. nothing,, just a terrible accident that could happen to anyone in those particular circumstances and weather conditions.


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    #126
    TeaBagMania
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    Isambard wrote: »
    there are exceptions and this is one

    What exceptions?

    At motorway speeds you have more than enough momentum to coast to the shoulder


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    #127
    TeaBagMania
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    RustyNut wrote: »
    A compitent driver should be expecting the unexpected and always be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. Motorway or not.

    Wrong, no one is ever expecting a stopped vehicle in the middle of the "motorway"

    does it happen? yes and i have seen it once in my life and that vehicle was near the shoulder.

    On a clear perfect day you could see and avoid, but in any other than perfect weather its a disaster waiting to happen


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    #128
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    TeaBagMania wrote: »
    Wrong, no one is ever expecting a stopped vehicle in the middle of the "motorway"

    does it happen? yes and i have seen it once in my life and that vehicle was near the shoulder.

    On a clear perfect day you could see and avoid, but in any other than perfect weather its a disaster waiting to happen


    Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary.

    It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.


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    #129
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    Harsh on the truck driver..I feel he has suffered enough, the 4yr ban is totally life changing for that guy. No mention of drink, no mention of speeding, no mention of phone etc.. nothing,, just a terrible accident that could happen to anyone in those particular circumstances and weather conditions.

    You can't say that without the benefit of statements and forensic collision report


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    #130
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    TeaBagMania wrote: »
    What exceptions?

    At motorway speeds you have more than enough momentum to coast to the shoulder

    and if a wheel falls off? there must be many occasions when a car could stop on the carriageway, not every driver would be able to cope and it's quite possible they could panic and just hit the brakes.


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    #131
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,926 ✭✭✭kirving


    freddyuk wrote: »
    Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary.

    It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

    I guarantee you that no matter how safe you think you drive, you could not stop in time on a motorway in medium to heavy traffic, if the car in front made an emergency stop. If you leave a gap, it will just be filled by someone else.

    There's a very good reason you're not allowed to stop on a motorway. It's also the reason thay the advice is to leave the car immediately and get behind the barrier.

    To be honest you'd be very lucky to stop in a housing estate if a child you weren't aware of ran out from behind a car at night. Unless you actually drive at 5kph.

    There's has to be a reasonable expectation that others will conform to the same behaviour appropriate for the road type that you're on, otherwise noone would get anywhere.



    Recently I got a flat on the motorway (hilly, twisty M17). Luckily it was quiet enough and sunny. I had just passed an exit so knew it was far to the next one.

    I drove on the flat tyre until I came to the crest of a hill where I knew they car could be seen from much further away. Destroyed the tyre but it was a hell of a lot safer that stopping on an unsighted right hand curve on the road.

    Also set up the warning triangle about 150m back up the road and set up warning lights (Powerflares,like what the Gards use at checkpoints) despite it being good weather. After the tyre sealent didn't work, I walked up the embankment and called the tyre company.

    The motorway maintenance guy saw me broken down and knowing how dangerous it still was set up more cones and the full light set on the back of his van. Very few cars pulled over the right lane to give more room even though it was quiet. Scary place to be if you were sat in the car.


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    #132
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    TeaBagMania wrote: »
    Isambard wrote: »
    there are exceptions and this is one

    What exceptions?

    At motorway speeds you have more than enough momentum to coast to the shoulder
    That would depend on what went wrong with the car. A ceized gearbox won't let you coast too far.


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    #133
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    I guarantee you that no matter how safe you think you drive, you could not stop in time on a motorway in medium to heavy traffic, if the car in front made an emergency stop. If you leave a gap, it will just be filled by someone else.

    There's a very good reason you're not allowed to stop on a motorway. It's also the reason thay the advice is to leave the car immediately and get behind the barrier.

    To be honest you'd be very lucky to stop in a housing estate if a child you weren't aware of ran out from behind a car at night. Unless you actually drive at 5kph.

    There's has to be a reasonable expectation that others will conform to the same behaviour appropriate for the road type that you're on, otherwise noone would get anywhere.



    Recently I got a flat on the motorway (hilly, twisty M17). Luckily it was quiet enough and sunny. I had just passed an exit so knew it was far to the next one.

    I drove on the flat tyre until I came to the crest of a hill where I knew they car could be seen from much further away. Destroyed the tyre but it was a hell of a lot safer that stopping on an unsighted right hand curve on the road.

    Also set up the warning triangle about 150m back up the road and set up warning lights (Powerflares,like what the Gards use at checkpoints) despite it being good weather. After the tyre sealent didn't work, I walked up the embankment and called the tyre company.

    The motorway maintenance guy saw me broken down and knowing how dangerous it still was set up more cones and the full light set on the back of his van. Very few cars pulled over the right lane to give more room even though it was quiet. Scary place to be if you were sat in the car.

    I think it is recommended that you don't set up warning triangles on the motorway and get off the carriageway as afar as you can straight away


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    #134
    whiskeyman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    Frightening reading through this thread on the varied opinions on what to do.
    Says alot about driver education in the country.


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    #135
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    A vehicle disabled in a driving lane of a motorway is a full scale emergency.
    Even if the driver and passengers have managed to evacuate to a safe place the vehicle poses an immediate threat to other road users.


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    #136
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,926 ✭✭✭kirving


    Isambard wrote: »
    I think it is recommended that you don't set up warning triangles on the motorway and get off the carriageway as afar as you can straight away

    On a busy road I probably wouldn't do it, but moreso that a pedestrian, even behind the barrier would distract drivers and cause them to do something unexpected.

    Walked back behind the barrier and only crossed out to set up the triangle and light when I could see I had more than enough time. Being on the crest of a hill meant good visibility.


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    #137
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    freddyuk wrote: »
    Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary. It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

    C'mon man. In torrential rain on the outer lane of a Motorway? Its difficult for artic lorry drivers at the best of times. One can easily see how this could happen.


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    #138
    Cartroubles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Cartroubles


    V8 Interceptor wrote: »
    C'mon man. In torrential rain on the outer lane of a Motorway? Its difficult for artic lorry drivers at the best of times. One can easily see how this could happen.

    Generally you would drastically decrease speed in torrential rain as your stopping distance becomes greater. It's one of the first things you learn.

    It's unlucky for the lorry the driver, but other vehicles avoided the collision, he should have too. Punishment is appropriate imo.


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    #139
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,775 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    elperello wrote: »
    For instance they make good use of overhead gantry warnings to let you know there is an accident/incident ahead.

    I find the gantry warnings here to be generally useless beyond letting you know SOMETHING has happened ahead - no indication of what lane is affected, they'll tell you the minor road but not the junction number etc.

    Then there's those mobile signs (the big orange led ones that are often around roadworks). Great idea but become completely ineffective when you see them being used as advertising billboards by some local shop etc


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    #140
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,775 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    I guarantee you that no matter how safe you think you drive, you could not stop in time on a motorway in medium to heavy traffic, if the car in front made an emergency stop. If you leave a gap, it will just be filled by someone else.

    There's a very good reason you're not allowed to stop on a motorway. It's also the reason thay the advice is to leave the car immediately and get behind the barrier.

    To be honest you'd be very lucky to stop in a housing estate if a child you weren't aware of ran out from behind a car at night. Unless you actually drive at 5kph.

    There's has to be a reasonable expectation that others will conform to the same behaviour appropriate for the road type that you're on, otherwise noone would get anywhere.



    Recently I got a flat on the motorway (hilly, twisty M17). Luckily it was quiet enough and sunny. I had just passed an exit so knew it was far to the next one.

    I drove on the flat tyre until I came to the crest of a hill where I knew they car could be seen from much further away. Destroyed the tyre but it was a hell of a lot safer that stopping on an unsighted right hand curve on the road.

    Also set up the warning triangle about 150m back up the road and set up warning lights (Powerflares,like what the Gards use at checkpoints) despite it being good weather. After the tyre sealent didn't work, I walked up the embankment and called the tyre company.

    The motorway maintenance guy saw me broken down and knowing how dangerous it still was set up more cones and the full light set on the back of his van. Very few cars pulled over the right lane to give more room even though it was quiet. Scary place to be if you were sat in the car.

    Yea, I find most drivers will continue at speed past a stopped car with maybe only a metre or so between them. It's probably the same types who see cars merging ahead of them but stay put until they're alongside those cars and one of them has to back off as the merging lane ends.

    Me I always move out if I see something stopped - you never know when someone might choose that moment to get out - and equally I move over to allow others merge at junctions.


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    #141
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    the merge thing: It's up to the merging driver to adjust his position by either slowing or accelerating.


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    #142
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,775 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Isambard wrote: »
    the merge thing: It's up to the merging driver to adjust his position by either slowing or accelerating.

    That's grand if you're not stuck behind some dawdling idiot doing around 80 as they trundle down the slip road into the path of a truck in lane 1 (increasingly common in my experience), or if you don't have some idiot in lane 1 trying to cut you off so you don't get ahead of them, or who will allow a blockage to occur at the end of the slip road because they won't move over when there's no reason not to.


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    #143
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Defensive driving is best in these situations.


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    #144
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,775 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    elperello wrote: »
    Defensive driving is best in these situations.

    Reading the road, the behaviour, picking your spot, and a 3L Quattro helps too :)


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    #145
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    V8 Interceptor wrote: »
    C'mon man. In torrential rain on the outer lane of a Motorway? Its difficult for artic lorry drivers at the best of times. One can easily see how this could happen.


    Driving so fast that you know you cannot stop in the distance that you can actually see ahead is reckless. It's amazing how many posters feel this is normal and acceptable. If you imagine there is a brick wall just beyond the point that you can see ahead can you stop before you hit it? If not then clearly you are driving in the hope and belief the road ahead is clear or you just have suicidal tendencies.


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    #146
    minikin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭minikin


    Sympathies are with the truck driver here.

    Had a break down (clutch burned out) & started losing power on the m50 just before Blanchardstown merge around 8pm on a dark wet November night last year. I generally drive in the leftermost lane as I call it, so was able to pull into a part of the hard shoulder that also had an extra inset for emergency / breakdown vehicles. Got hi-vis vests and torches out for myself and daughter and got behind the barrier - there was no way in feck I was risking remaining in a stationary vehicle the other side of a hard shoulder even if there was even the slightest possibility of a vehicle impacting it. The excellent M50 recovery arrived in under 10 mins (quick google) and brought us safely to next exit where the insurance recovery collected us within an hour.

    Can’t understand how someone would choose to remain in a stopped vehicle in a driving or overtaking lane of a motorway... can’t fathom how they could not make it into the hard shoulder at the very least... even if you entirely lost power you would still have forward momentum for a few hundred metres.

    Every M50 user should stick this in their phone:
    M50 24 HOUR RECOVERY
    1800 77 50 50


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    #147
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    freddyuk wrote: »
    Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary.

    It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

    Man I hope it never happens to you, driving on a motorway where you are not expecting anything to be stopped it's really easy to see a car in front of you but for your brain to understand THE CAR IS NOT MOVING is something that takes you a second or two longer.

    It has happened to me, car stopped in the overtaking lane.

    Thought process:
    That car looks like its stopped in the overtaking lane
    **** I should stop
    Wait I i hit the brakes now I could cause a pileup
    Is it really stopped?

    Oh shhiiiiittt, slam on brakes.


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    #148
    JJJJNR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    This is very sad and i find it hard to have no sympathy with the truck driver at all. However he gets to live his life see his kids, get another job and eventually move on. He admitted he wasn't concentrating, thats straight up manslaughter imo. We have all driven is epic downpours and even then we can see ahead for miles and miles, he is higher up so can see further ahead .


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    #149
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,746 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    In 17 minutes at 5 in the morning I'm sure there was plenty of chances to get out and get to the barrier.

    Sitting in a stationary car in the middle of the motorway in the rain was about the worst option to take.

    If I was in that car I couldn't have done it. Now my reason are different from hers. I do not think I be able to get my door open wheelchair out on it and over to the hard shoulder. It is nigh on impossible to say why she did not do it


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    #150
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    redcup342 wrote: »
    freddyuk wrote: »
    Stunning! If you cannot stop within the distance you can see ahead then you are effectively driving blind. In fog it happens all the time hence pile ups in fog. Driving when you cannot safely stop before hitting anything "unexpected" is driving without due care and attention. Having 40 ton trucks with this attitude is very scary.

    It is terrifying that so many drivers drive beyond their capabilities and endanger others on the road but we are all the best drivers in the world in our heads so blame others for our own incompetence.

    Man I hope it never happens to you, driving on a motorway where you are not expecting anything to be stopped it's really easy to see a car in front of you but for your brain to understand THE CAR IS NOT MOVING is something that takes you a second or two longer.

    It has happened to me, car stopped in the overtaking lane.

    Thought process:
    That car looks like its stopped in the overtaking lane
    **** I should stop
    Wait I i hit the brakes now I could cause a pileup
    Is it really stopped?

    Oh shhiiiiittt, slam on brakes.
    Did you manage to get it stopped?


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    #151
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    martingriff wrote: »
    If I was in that car I couldn't have done it. Now my reason are different from hers. I do not think I be able to get my door open wheelchair out on it and over to the hard shoulder. It is nigh on impossible to say why she did not do it

    Youd probably fair better tbh, even struggling with the wheelchair. It's pretty much a countdown to getting hit. Definitely a lot closer to when than if. Anyway, in this case, there's nothing to suggest anything stioped her getting to safety other than common sense.

    Plus, let's be honest here, like most of the dopes driving on the m50, she was probably in the middle or outside lane with an empty lane to her left. Unless the car immediately seized and screeched ro a stop, you should be able to coast across 1 lane to safety. Dawdling in the middle lane makes it twice as hard when something happens.


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