If your car broke down on the motorway...

18-01-2019 6:42pm

Probably something that needs to be part of learner drivers' syllabus. I learned in detail how to deal with horses, horse drawn carts, cars with no indicators, etc back in the day. Fat lot of use that was to me! Nothing about motorway breakdowns though. In fact I never had to prove I could safely drive on a motorway to get my license, but that's a whole 'nother subject.

It might seem logical that a stalled car in the middle of the motorway is not the place to be. If you haven't been formally educated on the dangers, this may or may not occur to you. Particularly on a cold, rainy morning at 5AM when you're maybe not dressed for the weather, and don't have a plan for escaping the hard shoulder (can't call a taxi to pick you up on a motorway, you might worry that it's not serious enough to call the gardai for, there's an emergency hotline somewhere around here - but where?).

Wishbone Ash · 18-01-2019 7:05pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

On UK motorways the life expectancy of someone stopped in the hard shoulder not the middle of the motorway is 15-20 minutes....

That type of statistic is trotted out regularly (with various minutes) but it is a bit misleading as it is the average time until someone is struck over all hard the shoulders of all motorways in the UK - not the chances of any individual motorist getting struck on a single motorway. (One of the motoring programmes did a piece on it a few years ago).

Auguste Comte · 18-01-2019 7:16pm

In the UK if you break down on the motorway and can't arrange to have your car removed in a timely manner then the police will have it towed for you at your expense.

I've seen cars left broken down on the side of the motorway here for days with a few cones behind them before they are removed.

CrankyHaus · 18-01-2019 7:32pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

In the UK if you break down on the motorway and can't arrange to have your car removed in a timely manner then the police will have it towed for you at your expense.

I've seen cars left broken down on the side of the motorway here for days with a few cones behind them before they are removed.

I'm sure the Gardaí or the M50 operating company will arrange to do that here if you're stuck in a driving lane. The hazard that forms is enormous and has to be cleared ASAP. If she only alerted her insurance company that was a serious error.

Poor woman. Sadly you cannot depend on drivers to pay attention and slow down if the conditions make it difficult to see what's right in front of them. You don't just blindly plough on on the basis that a broken down car (or fallen debris, or any hazard) shouldn't be there. The truck driver is held to the standard of a professional driver, which he failed to meet and someone died as a result. I sympathise with him enormously but those are the facts.

The M50 in the early morning tends to have high volumes of very high speed traffic. In the dark and the rain peering back at the oncoming headlights it would be extremely difficult for that woman to make out the exact path, speed and position of vehicles approaching from behind and see when it was safe to make a break (in fact it may never have been, we weren't there).

tcawley29 · 18-01-2019 7:33pm

Has anyone even considered the fact that the car battery may have actually died and the hazard lights turned off as a result.

Extremely harsh on the truck driver as he will now have to live with this for the rest of his life

corks finest · 18-01-2019 7:55pm

grahambo wrote: »

Read this story:
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/suspended-sentence-for-truck-driver-who-caused-motorists-death-in-m50-accident-898455.html

Basically what happened was a persons car broke down on the M50 at 5am on a Wednesday morning.
The Car broke down on one of the lanes and the driver didn't make it to the hard shoulder.
The person stayed in their car for approximately 17 minutes attempting to contact their insurance company.
The hazard lights were turned on but there was torrential rain that morning.
Other cars avoided the broken down car.
A truck then hit the car, then another truck hit it. The occupant was died in hospital a few days later.
The Truck driver of the first truck was sentenced today for dangerous driving.
1 Year suspended sentence
Licence suspended for 4 years

If it were me, and it was 5am on the Motorway, I'd have gotten out of the car when a gap appeared an made my way either to the centre divide or the hard shoulder/embankment as soon as the gap appeared.
There is no way I'd have stayed in the car.

I think the licence suspended for the truck driver is harsh, it's their livelihood that's been taken away and they have no previous convictions and have shown remorse for what happened.
I think it was very stupid of the person to stay in the Car on a Motorway at that time of the day given the poor visibility.

Would you get out of or stay in the car?

Out

Dial Hard · 18-01-2019 8:02pm

I once saw a guy standing in front of his broken down car in the middle lane of the M50 in the pitch dark. Absolute deathwish.

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-01-2019 8:10pm

McCrack wrote: »

It is extremely dangerous to be stationary on a motorway and also stopped in the hard shoulder - I see it regularly - people pulled over the hard shoulder to take/make phone calls etc - they dont realise the danger they are putting themselves in at all -

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/suspended-sentence-for-truck-driver-who-caused-the-death-of-young-mother-1.3496298

I see this without fail on the M1 in both directions. Clowns don't even have hazards on in most cases just one indicator on.

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-01-2019 8:18pm

I assume you're in the wrong if you enter a near side lane and a collision happens even if you're being undertaken, still I have to say I'd risk it rather than get stuck in a live bloody lane. Had an absolute phobia of it happening in the bloody Fiat I had that just seemed to go hay wire.

Wishbone Ash · 18-01-2019 8:22pm

tcawley29 wrote: »

Has anyone even considered the fact that the car battery may have actually died and the hazard lights turned off as a result....

Eh, no - because the evidence presented said that other motorists saw the flashing hazard lights and took evasive action.

Rubberchikken · 18-01-2019 8:24pm

theres not enough education on motorway rules.
ive seen so many people just pull in to answer the phone/take a leak.
i know enough to leave the car if theres a breakdown and get well back behind the barrier away from the car. only learned it reading an article in some paper. it needs to be taught, drivers dont know this automatically

Heroditas · 18-01-2019 8:38pm

I had an instance where the coolant pump failed in my car heading up to Belfast. Didn't have a coat and it was absolutely bucketing down. Pulled into the hard shoulder and waited a couple of minutes with the hazards on until it cooled a tiny bit so I could get a bit further (was just north of Dundalk) so I could pull I to the large layby near the exit for Jonesboro.
Was absolutely bricking it while the car was on the hard shoulder and was also staring out at the pouring rain thinking "I'm going to get absolutely soaked to the bone waiting for the guts of an hour to be picked up but I certainly can't stay here..."

Henry Ford III · 18-01-2019 8:43pm

1/. Pull into hard shoulder.

2/. Put on hazard lights.

3/. Get away from the car.

4/. Call for help.

tcawley29 · 18-01-2019 8:58pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Eh, no - because the evidence presented said that other motorists saw the flashing hazard lights and took evasive action.

Yes but did they mean other motorists at the time the truck driver hit them or other motorists previous to this.

If scenario one then I have my answer and withdraw my comment, If scenario two then my comment still stands

V8 Interceptor · 18-01-2019 9:16pm

redcup342 wrote: »

If you are in the overtaking lane and d!cks are undertaking you as they do on the M50 then it's quite difficult.

If you're being undertaken on the M50 then you're probably in the wrong lane mate.

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-01-2019 9:20pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

If you're being undertaken on the M50 then you're probably in the wrong lane mate.

TBH I'm guilty of nipping down the inside lane when really I should be in the outside lane. People simply don't use the inside lane of the M50 due to the junctions.

Yeah yeah I know, I'd prefer people be in the correct lane too but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of undertaking does go on, on the M50.

John_Rambo · 18-01-2019 9:29pm

It's a tragic story and the reliance of hazard lights being a safe option has to be looked at.

This is stupid though... I was on the M1 heading North and was overtaken by an estate car ambulance, not a full size one. A mondeo sized estate with flashing blues and a siren. After a few kilometres the car-ambulance was stopped in the over taking lane and everyone overtaking had slowed right down to merge in turn in to the driving lane. Turns out a middle aged couple had assumed the ambulance was a cop car, thought they were being pulled and stopped dead in the overtaking lane. Luckily everyone (except the car that had stopped with the ambulance behind them) was on the ball and traffic had slowed to a walking pace and I witnessed the paramedics roaring at the driver to move on and move the **** on.

V8 Interceptor · 18-01-2019 9:30pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

TBH I'm guilty of nipping down the inside lane when really I should be in the outside lane. People simply don't use the inside lane of the M50 due to the junctions. Yeah yeah I know, I'd prefer people be in the correct lane too but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of undertaking does go on, on the M50.

I don't think you're guilty of anything. If people are dawdling in the outside lanes and you come upon them in the driving lane then I'd say carry on.

TheChizler · 18-01-2019 9:32pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

If you're being undertaken on the M50 then you're probably in the wrong lane mate.

Miss the bit where they said the car had lost power?

goat2 · 18-01-2019 9:34pm

Maybe she did not have time to get out or the road was busy, but should have put on hazard lights all the same.

Isambard · 18-01-2019 9:42pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I don't think you're guilty of anything. If people are dawdling in the outside lanes and you come upon them in the driving lane then I'd say carry on.

i think the poster was saying that the guy being undertaken was in the wrong lane.

Heroditas · 18-01-2019 9:46pm

goat2 wrote: »

Maybe she did not have time to get out or the road was busy, but should have put on hazard lights all the same.

It was 5am. I'm often on the M50 at that time. There's some traffic on it but it's certainly possible to run across to the hard shoulder.
It's in the record that she was there for quite a while.

18-01-2019 9:50pm

I think the punishment is harsh on the driver.

I haven;t read the whole thread, but didn't a Garda (off duty) get off without punishment when he killed two people who were fighting/lying on the motorway? Surely you could say he wasn't paying attention either. Truck driver has been disproportionately punished in my opinion, and should appeal.

As for whether i'd leave the car or not, if i was in a 'live' lane, then yeah I'd get out and run for it. If i got to the hard shoulder I'd stay in the car, though.

Rear fogs turned on would have helped in this situation too (as from a distance they'd look like brake lights). As others have said, my first call, if i was in a live lane, would be to the Gardai.

Mint Sauce · 18-01-2019 9:51pm

goat2 wrote: »

Maybe she did not have time to get out or the road was busy, but should have put on hazard lights all the same.

She did have her Hazards on. If she was in the over taking lane, what was wrong with the central median.

I know hind sight is a wonderful thing, and considering she was ringing her insurance company, was obviously not thinking straight.

TeaBagMania · 18-01-2019 9:52pm

Her vehicle being stopped was impeding the flow of traffic. If it were a motorcyclist that hit her car and was killed she would have been at fault

RustyNut · 18-01-2019 9:54pm

TeaBagMania wrote: »

Her vehicle being stopped was impeding the flow of traffic. If it were a motorcyclist that hit her car and was killed she would have been at fault

No she wouldn't ,the motorcyclist should be able to stop in the distance he could see to be clear.

TeaBagMania · 18-01-2019 9:58pm

RustyNut wrote: »

No she wouldn't ,the motorcyclist should be able to stop in the distance he could see to be clear.

not on a "motorway" where no vehicle should ever be stopped (excluding traffic jams of course)

Isambard · 18-01-2019 10:00pm

TeaBagMania wrote: »

not on a "motorway" where no vehicle should ever be stopped (excluding traffic jams of course)

there are exceptions and this is one

Guy:Incognito · 18-01-2019 10:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.

. If i got to the hard shoulder I'd stay in the car, though.
ai.

And this, kids, is why people end up dead........

RustyNut · 18-01-2019 10:07pm

TeaBagMania wrote: »

not on a "motorway" where no vehicle should ever be stopped (excluding traffic jams of course)

A compitent driver should be expecting the unexpected and always be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. Motorway or not.

Isambard · 18-01-2019 10:11pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And this, kids, is why people end up dead........

absolutely, if I could I'd get the car off the tarmac and on to the grass, and then get out and move away

Drifter50 · 18-01-2019 10:12pm

peasant wrote: »

Btw

If your car engine ever conks out in a really bad spot and you need to move it a few meters to safety, you can get going on the starter motor alone.

Leave it in gear, turn the starter on and immediately press the clutch (letting go of the starter key). This should give you a little push...rinse and repeat until out of danger.
You could also try to keep the starter turning and modulate the clutch, that should also move you a bit.

Obviously not great for the components involved...but better than getting crushed by a 40 ton truck

Spot on, thats what I was going to suggest. Pity not many know how to do this.
Anyway new models with press button ignition won`t move. In my view thats a backward step. Moving a car in 3rd gear on the starter motor would have always got you out of a dangerous situation

elperello · 18-01-2019 10:13pm

Sad case sympathies to all concerned.

If you have the misfortune to break down in a driving lane and can't get to the hard shoulder the best thing to do is put on hazards and get out to safety behind the barrier.

The first call should be to the Gardai who will manage the traffic situation to prevent an accident.

tomoliver · 18-01-2019 10:14pm

you'd be mad to stay in a parked car on a motorway hard shoulder

you don't know what clown is coming up behind

18-01-2019 10:15pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And this, kids, is why people end up dead........

I'll take my chances.

Broke down before on the motorway, slept in the car on the hard shoulder for about 4 hours waiting on assistance. All was well in the world.

Not suggesting you, or anyone else, has to do it, but if I'm in the hard shoulder I'll stay in the car.

CJhaughey · 18-01-2019 10:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll take my chances.

Broke down before on the motorway, slept in the car on the hard shoulder for about 4 hours waiting on assistance. All was well in the world.

Not suggesting you, or anyone else, has to do it, but if I'm in the hard shoulder I'll stay in the car.

You obviously place little value on your life.

elperello · 18-01-2019 10:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll take my chances.

Broke down before on the motorway, slept in the car on the hard shoulder for about 4 hours waiting on assistance. All was well in the world.

Not suggesting you, or anyone else, has to do it, but if I'm in the hard shoulder I'll stay in the car.

Please people, don't follow this example.

The J Stands for Jay · 18-01-2019 10:17pm

dudara wrote: »

I was involved in something similar years ago. My car lost power on the N7 three lane carriageway. I made it to the hard shoulder, but I didn’t get out straight away (I know!) as I was getting stuff sorted. Another driver (an elderly gent who was driving on the hard shoulder) rear-ended me. Thankfully my big car versus his Micra worked in my favour but still very scary.

Staying in a broken down car on a motorway or in a hard shoulder is one of the quickest things you can do to shorten your lifespan.

I understand from the article that the truck driver failed to see the hazards, but it literally only takes one oversight, one mistake and that’s it, game over. I do feel huge sympathy for the truck driver.

What are these people driving in the hard shoulder for?

Lantus · 18-01-2019 10:18pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

One recommendation that should have come out of it is the need to have a Hi Viz vest in every car when travelling on a motorway, not saying it would have saved her if she exitted the vehicle but it would have made her much more visible if she had to. I know they are mandatory in France.

And a whistle to attract attention

Still waters · 18-01-2019 10:21pm

RustyNut wrote: »

A compitent driver should be expecting the unexpected and always be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. Motorway or not.

This is a fallacy, a driver is expected to react to the conditions at a given time, people are not expected to be able to see into the future and react to things that may happen outside of their control which is what causes accidents, drivers can only control what they have control over, this woman did herself no favours but the truck drivers lapse in concentration didn't help matters, she should have got out but that's where her decision making let her down, her reactions to her situation ultimately led to her death, which is sad

elperello · 18-01-2019 10:23pm

McGaggs wrote: »

What are these people driving in the hard shoulder for?

Unfortunately they do.
In bad conditions I've seen it.
Also I've seen older and I presume nervous drivers but that's an assumption on my part because it's hard to tell at 120kph.

antodeco · 18-01-2019 10:31pm

Aren't there some places on the M50 were the central median is just a single wall meaning nowhere to stand?

CJhaughey · 18-01-2019 10:34pm

McGaggs wrote: »

What are these people driving in the hard shoulder for?

They may just veer a little out of their lane due to poor situational awareness, distraction, coughing or sneezing.
Literally anything can cause a person to move into the hard shoulder enough to run into a parked car, that's why its so dangerous to remain in the vehicle.

elperello · 18-01-2019 10:41pm

A motorway is less a road and more of an organism.
All the various parts are depending on each other and a small problem can rapidly escalate into disaster.

In Ireland we are a bit behind the curve in motorway management and we need to catch up.

In the UK they have had more years to work on it and while they don't always get it right they at least have the systems, equipment and training needed to manage motorways.

For instance they make good use of overhead gantry warnings to let you know there is an accident/incident ahead.

The J Stands for Jay · 18-01-2019 10:42pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

They may just veer a little out of their lane due to poor situational awareness, distraction, coughing or sneezing.
Literally anything can cause a person to move into the hard shoulder enough to run into a parked car, that's why its so dangerous to remain in the vehicle.

I suppose that makes sense. Every time I hear reports of these incidents, I just assume they're driving around in the hard shoulder.

Next question: those people that park on the hard shoulder as soon as they pass the toll plaza. What are they all doing?

punisher5112 · 18-01-2019 10:47pm

Some people don't take good advice and believe they are grand and right in doing the wrong thing.

Look kkv that's great it worked out for you but seriously a motorway is no place to be sleeping on the side of.

I've had to change a wheel before and I got off at the side at an entry to the motorway and into a motorway service bay for workers and the sound, shocks and vibrations from the speed of the other vehicles is something else.

People fall asleep, drift out of lanes, crash while changing lanes, get blow outs which I did but was able to keep it controlled and so much more can go wrong at speed.

I was over taking a Daewoo a few years back on the M7 and she had a front blow out and the car spunnout of control smashing straight into the crash barrier absolutely destroyed the front and ended up with no lights at all.

I was able to stop luckily and as it was pitch black and now a car in the overtaking lane with no lights I reversed back the motorway a bit of a distance and was pumping the brake pedal, hazards on and flicking on/off the fog light to get vehicles approaching to slow to a stop.

I got the driver to then drive the wreck to the hard shoulder.

Put it this way I was watching the traffic coming and reading their speed and had the car in gear ready to floor it to get out of there if they weren't stopping.

Muahahaha · 18-01-2019 10:56pm

This incident is further proof that the learner driver system should include a module on motorways. Plus we need ad campaigns on what do to in this situation. It was totally unavoidable if the victim had of known the last place to be was sitting inside the car for 17 minutes. While I feel sympathy for the truck driver he does have responsibility here, as drivers we are all legally obliged to drive in a manner that we can come to a complete stop for any hazard up ahead. Others cars managed to avoid her for 17 minutes but the trucker didn't despite him having a much better view of the road from up on high in a trucks cab.

endacl wrote: »

I was in a situation several year ago on the m50 in heavy traffic. All sorts of dashboard lights came on and the car lost power. Would rev ok, but didn’t get as far as the wheels. I was in the overtaking lane at the time, heading north just after Dundrum. I flicked the indicator on, intending to move left towards the shoulder, and as I gradually slowed, the reaction of drivers behind was to undertake at speed, to avoid slowing. It was a truck driver who copped what was going on and let me firstly into the middle lane, and then shadowed me into the driving lane. Without that particular truck driver (a Stobart). I’d have been in exactly the same position. Stuck in lane 3 with nowhere to go.

I've been in a similar situation at rush hour coming from the city on N7 going over the M50. I was in lane 2 and a car in lane 3 suddenly indicated and beared quickly into my lane whilst slowing down fast. I slammed the brakes and came to a complete stop less than a foot from its back bumper. Then she put her hazards on, the car behind me also came close to going into the back of me and then he put on his hazards.

I was on a motorbike and wedged between these two cars, all three of us couldnt move. So I got off, spoke to the lady in front, she was 70+ and in a serious panic. I asked the lad in the car behind to give us a hand pushing the broken down car across lane 1 and onto the hard shoulder. I was already in hi vis so it was easy enough to stop the slow moving traffic in lane one, just stuck my hand up and edged across. I asked the first car to put their hazards on and wait a minute. Three of us pushed the broken down car onto the hard shoulder, I hopped back on the motorbike and drove onto the hard shoulder in front of her car. She was in some state. Got her out of the car and behind the barrier. Then I'd to go back into her car as she didnt know her breakdown assist details so got them from the glove compartment. Waited about 30 minutes with her, the poor dear had just lost her husband two weeks previous and this incident had her in a panic.

Reading todays story Im glad I did what I did even if it was a bit risky. I've no doubt she would have sat in the car till rear ended, she had no compousure and was having a break down of her own.

ckeng · 18-01-2019 10:56pm

antodeco wrote: »

Aren't there some places on the M50 were the central median is just a single wall meaning nowhere to stand?

Yep, around the Lucan Juntion is one of them. She was also looking at about 600 vehicles an hour at the time (Traffic ) - so say something going by every 5 or 6 seconds. I think that's actually pretty tight to get out of the car and sprint across three or four lanes in the dark and wet, especially if you're sitting there trying to judge if this is the gap where you should chance it or if maybe the next one would be better. A touch of paralysis by analysis maybe. The percentage move is probably still to go for it, but I'm not entirely sure it would be the obvious choice in those circumstances.

DoctorStrange · 18-01-2019 11:09pm

I picked up a couple of fleece lined hi vis jackets. XXL one for the kids, put them under it like a tent.

They were only around 25E each in one of those army surplus places.

Keep them in a bag in the boot with some woolly hats. Haven't had to use them yet thankfully.

Wouldn't fancy trying to get 2 kids across from Lane 3 though.

18-01-2019 11:34pm

I broke down on a motorway last Summer.

First thing i did? I phoned the guards alerting them to my predicament. I broke down on the over-taking lane.

They advised me to try and get the car into the hard shoulder- they had no-one to attend.

I eventually got the car onto the hard shoulder. All my own work. With passengers. Piece of sh1te support from Gardai - sorry piss off. It could have been so much worse - it wasn't in this case. But seriously this wasn't treated as an actual emergency event. Pizz off guards!

If your car broke down on the motorway...

Comments