Good Luck in GAMSAT 2011!

del85 · 29-03-2011 4:51pm

bubbleking wrote: »

edit - from what I remember there was a good lot of Irish over in London

Lots in Bristol too.

bubbleking · 29-03-2011 4:58pm

paraguay99 wrote: »

another way of looking at it is you would have to be in the 74th percentile to be offered a place.

again the answer is it depends. If history is anything to go by then you need to be higher than the 74th percentile to be offered a place - I would guesstimate that you need to be in the 76th-77th percentile of the Irish sitting.

The reason is that candidates can sit the exam in England. e.g. If I scored a 59 that would put me in the 76th percentile in England. However this score equates to an 81st percentile in Ireland in the same year if you get me.

Therefore one can assume that people scoring in the English Gamsat will drive up the points of the courses.

Thats terribly explained but Im knackered I apologise

bubbleking · 29-03-2011 5:16pm

Ok hopefully these graphs will help to explain my point better. Sort of explains why doing the exam in england is better also. All things staying equal Coming in the 75th percentile in England is worth a lot more to you than coming in the 75th in Ireland

GAMSAT ireland curve 2009

GAMSAT ireland curve 2010

London 2009

London 2010

del85 · 29-03-2011 5:33pm

bubbleking wrote: »

Ok hopefully these graphs will help to explain my point better. Sort of explains why doing the exam in england is better also. All things staying equal Coming in the 75th percentile in England is worth a lot more to you than coming in the 75th in Ireland

The two countries' distributions look they could be converging- UK GAMSAT scores were generally lower in 2010 compared to 2009, Irish GAMSAT scores were generally higher. They might "meet in the middle" this year.

Other stuff (number of applicants etc) might skew it, but I reckon the Irish results in May could look quite similar to that UK 2010 distribution.

drspock · 29-03-2011 6:46pm

jtsuited wrote: »

what a strange day....sections 1 and 2 went perfectly for me. then section 3.........
read through it and it seemed fine, was thinking 'here we go, i can give a good attempt at it and hopefully section 1 and 2 marks will counterbalance it'.
oh how wrong was I. They had thrown in curve balls to nearly every question, and tbh I psyched myself out.
I completely fcuked up the whole section through a sheer lack of stamina and a healthy dose of panic, and just got freaked out.
On the upside, everyone I talked to afterwards felt the exact same.

I don't think I'll get it this time round, but the amount you learn by actually doing the test is insane.

Next time I do it, I'm going to do a load of practice tests under exam conditions before and get caffeine pills for the day.

On the upside, I come from a complete non-science background and managed to cover everything I needed in under 2 months. Simple case of getting it right and not burning out on the day the next time.
Hadn't done an exam since 2005 so expecting my brain to be able to function like it used to under pressure was a bit wishful on my part.
I'm just happy to have done it and know what it's all about now.

The invigilators and pretty much everyone involved administrating (bar some of the younger ones) the exam yesterday came across as complete and utter cúnts.

Hey Guys hope everyone survived the GAMSAT! I agree section 1 and 2 were grand. I thought section 3 was rough. I did all the OZIMEDs and all the full practice tests, and even on my GAMSAT go section 3 threw me. Being used to the timing I thought afterwards that the overall layout of the questions was timed more for 115-120min rather than the given 110. An 87 in section 2 brought me up in the london gamsat, hope I get lucky again.

I'm hoping for UCC but didn't realise they out have the 25 EU places? Anyone else aiming for Cork? I think my GAMSAT results last year came out around 14th of May? The waiting begins........

paraguay99 · 29-03-2011 7:10pm

bubbleking wrote: »

again the answer is it depends. If history is anything to go by then you need to be higher than the 74th percentile to be offered a place - I would guesstimate that you need to be in the 76th-77th percentile of the Irish sitting.

The reason is that candidates can sit the exam in England. e.g. If I scored a 59 that would put me in the 76th percentile in England. However this score equates to an 81st percentile in Ireland in the same year if you get me.

Therefore one can assume that people scoring in the English Gamsat will drive up the points of the courses.

Thats terribly explained but Im knackered I apologise

I understand your point and its a good one. There may have been 30+ people sitting on 60+ scores before the exam and about 50 more with a score of either 57/58/59.

It's all theory until we get the results.

Overall, I'd probably agree that you'll need to be in the 77-78th percentile at least.

Some people definitely have already booked their place by scoring well in the UK.

sparrow3 · 29-03-2011 11:37pm

wow, 87 on section 2 - congrats,

Drspock - what was your overall score with such a high section 2

bubbleking · 30-03-2011 9:05am

del85 wrote: »

The two countries' distributions look they could be converging- UK GAMSAT scores were generally lower in 2010 compared to 2009, Irish GAMSAT scores were generally higher. They might "meet in the middle" this year.

Other stuff (number of applicants etc) might skew it, but I reckon the Irish results in May could look quite similar to that UK 2010 distribution.

meh Im not so sure. Lets take a score of 60 for example. In 2009 in Ireland this would have put you in the 87th percentile (roughly). Little had changed in 2010 as a score of 60 would still have put you in the 87th percentile.

Now lets look at England. In 2009 a score of 60 puts you in the 74th percentile while in 2010 it has you in the 78th.

So really the only thing that's happening is that it is becoming more difficult to score higher in the English GAMSAT. I believe this is firmly down to more Irish sitting the one in England.

Im not sure if I'v explained it here before but there is a reason it is (was) easier to score a better mark in the English GAMSAT but not an elite mark - I call it the deadwood principal

I'll post it up here if anyone is interested

del85 · 30-03-2011 3:41pm

bubbleking wrote: »

Im not sure if I'v explained it here before but there is a reason it is (was) easier to score a better mark in the English GAMSAT but not an elite mark - I call it the deadwood principal I'll post it up here if anyone is interested

Does it have anything to do with the construction of the test itself, ie, could they be tweaking the tests to omit the types of questions that people are finding unfeasibly difficult?

jtsuited · 30-03-2011 4:01pm

The trauma of the day has subsided and I'm feeling a good bit more positive about it (perhaps incorrectly).

It seems, from reading around forums, that scoring less than 50 is quite rare for question 3 unless you're completely unprepared and guessing the majority (open to correction on this).

Thankfully section 3 seems to have been a bitch for everyone so the marking curve will give me something in the low 50s (hopefully).

I'm confident I've scored quite high on section 1 and 2, so here's hoping for a minor miracle and that I manage to get into the mid 60s and don't ever have to do that exam again!

bubbleking · 30-03-2011 4:04pm

del85 wrote: »

Does it have anything to do with the construction of the test itself, ie, could they be tweaking the tests to omit the types of questions that are unfeasibly difficult?

Im running stats today so Im looking for any excuse to procrastinate and this will do

. By the way I have no way to support this claim its just an opinion.

Personally I think it is down to the English v Irish education system. In England the majority of people take 3 subjects for their A levels while in Ireland we take 6 subjects. Now while we study our 6 subjects to a pretty high standard the English students take their specialist subjects and study them to a very very high level. In essence the English students have an advantage in their specialist area while Irish students are more rounded.

So what does the deadwood principal mean? Well because of the education system there are a lot of english students sitting the exam that havnt got a hope (excuse the bluntness) Those that focused on laungage A levels and Uni find the science section too hard and those that focused on science slip up on the english section. These people really dilute the exam taking population. Since GAMSAT is marked on a distribution curve it is easier for me to come in the top "x"th percentile and so get a decent mark. This is very difficult in a rounded setting because if everyone is roughly the same ability wise it is more difficult to come in the top 25%. Note I will do better on average in the English GAMSAT but I will never come in the top 5% there - The guys that come top over there are experts in their specialist areas and have brought up their weak areas to a high standard - It would take an unreal amount of study for us to reach that level.

In recent years more and more Irish have sat the English GAMSAT and it is being reflected in the results. With a test taker pool that is less diluted it is becoming harder and harder to get a good mark (for the sake of arguement thats between the 75th and 90th percentile) - the average is getting better in England so the 75th percentile is getting lower.

Does that make sense? Im not the best at explaining stuff (not a good thing for a prospective doctor :P)

del85 · 30-03-2011 4:06pm

jtsuited wrote: »

It seems, from reading around forums, that scoring less than 50 is quite rare for question 3 unless you're completely unprepared and guessing the majority (open to correction on this).

Is that the general consensus? Yikes.

I studied my b*llocks off and only got 46...

jtsuited · 30-03-2011 4:21pm

del85 wrote: »

Is that the general consensus? Yikes.

I studied my b*llocks off and only got 46...

Sh1te. Maybe it's that people who get under 50 don't tend to say so on the internet.
Sh1te.

bubbleking · 30-03-2011 4:24pm

jtsuited wrote: »

Sh1te. Maybe it's that people who get under 50 don't tend to say so on the internet.
Sh1te.

you will always hear the success stories on the internet so don't be fooled into thinking it's all rosey in the garden. Also most people (I dont have figures) will do the exam more than once. You have gained an awful lot in sitting the exam once and if you do have to do it again it will stand to you

del85 · 30-03-2011 4:31pm

bubbleking wrote: »

Im running stats today so Im looking for any excuse to procrastinate and this will do . By the way I have no way to support this claim its just an opinion.

Personally I think it is down to the English v Irish education system. In England the majority of people take 3 subjects for their A levels while in Ireland we take 6 subjects. Now while we study our 6 subjects to a pretty high standard the English students take their specialist subjects and study them to a very very high level. In essence the English students have an advantage in their specialist area while Irish students are more rounded.

So what does the deadwood principal mean? Well because of the education system there are a lot of english students sitting the exam that havnt got a hope (excuse the bluntness) Those that focused on laungage A levels and Uni find the science section too hard and those that focused on science slip up on the english section. These people really dilute the exam taking population. Since GAMSAT is marked on a distribution curve it is easier for me to come in the top "x"th percentile and so get a decent mark. This is very difficult in a rounded setting because if everyone is roughly the same ability wise it is more difficult to come in the top 25%. Note I will do better on average in the English GAMSAT but I will never come in the top 5% there - The guys that come top over there are experts in their specialist areas and have brought up their weak areas to a high standard - It would take an unreal amount of study for us to reach that level.

In recent years more and more Irish have sat the English GAMSAT and it is being reflected in the results. With a test taker pool that is less diluted it is becoming harder and harder to get a good mark (for the sake of arguement thats between the 75th and 90th percentile) - the average is getting better in England so the 75th percentile is getting lower.

Does that make sense? Im not the best at explaining stuff (not a good thing for a prospective doctor :P)

That's some high quality procrastination right there, fair play!

The Australian education system (from whence GAMSAT spawned) has more in common with ours than it does the British system. Being a curricular jack-of-all-trades is definitely advantageous when studying for it, so I can see the logic in that "deadwood" idea.

If it's true, then the best advice you could offer anyone thinking of doing the GAMSAT is to do it in Britland- at least until it's all Irish people in the exam halls over there and "deadwood theory" cancels itself out!

bubbleking · 30-03-2011 4:36pm

del85 wrote: »

If it's true, then the best advice you could offer anyone thinking of doing the GAMSAT is to do it in Britland- at least until it's all Irish people in the exam halls over there and "deadwood theory" cancels itself out!

This is pretty much the crux of the arguement - Id estimate that people have 2 years max to get it done in England before it stops becoming an advantage

sparrow3 · 30-03-2011 6:43pm

i completely agree with bubbleking - if you look on boards.ie or particularly newmediamedicine.com, it is usually the people with decent scores who post. On newmediamedicine, some people even add a signature to their posts detailing the status of their offers ( bit demoralising when you see people getting 4 offers and you have none but sure all credit to them)

And as for sitting the exam more then once , most people i know who are in GEM now , took at least a second go . Personally, i have done it three times.

paraguay99 · 30-03-2011 7:00pm

sparrow3 wrote: »

i completely agree with bubbleking - if you look on boards.ie or particularly newmediamedicine.com, it is usually the people with decent scores who post. On newmediamedicine, some people even add a signature to their posts detailing the status of their offers ( bit demoralising when you see people getting 4 offers and you have none but sure all credit to them)

And as for sitting the exam more then once , most people i know who are in GEM now , took at least a second go . Personally, i have done it three times.

What scores did you get each time mate?

sparrow3 · 31-03-2011 9:25am

First time i sat GAMSAT was in Sept 2009 in London and got 52 - was pretty demoralised but determined to do medicine. Got 55 the second time in Dublin and 61 in London 2010 - section 1 was always my achilleus heal

Please God i have enough to get in - the thought of sitting the GAMSAT again makes my left eye twitch !!

bubbleking · 31-03-2011 10:30am

sparrow3 wrote: »

First time i sat GAMSAT was in Sept 2009 in London and got 52 - was pretty demoralised but determined to do medicine. Got 55 the second time in Dublin and 61 in London 2010 - section 1 was always my achilleus heal

Please God i have enough to get in - the thought of sitting the GAMSAT again makes my left eye twitch !!

ah you will have your choice of UCD, UCC and UL - do you have a preference?

Also is anyone else heading down to UL tonight?

jtsuited · 31-03-2011 12:19pm

sparrow3 wrote: »

First time i sat GAMSAT was in Sept 2009 in London and got 52 - was pretty demoralised but determined to do medicine. Got 55 the second time in Dublin and 61 in London 2010 - section 1 was always my achilleus heal

Please God i have enough to get in - the thought of sitting the GAMSAT again makes my left eye twitch !!

Congratulations, 61 will get you a place somewhere.
The thought of even doing the gamsat a 2nd time is giving me nightmares. Not so much the test but the idea that I'll be turning 28 and won't have started medicine. Silly I know, but saturday's section 3 has thrown my ability to be rational out the window.:D

sparrow3 · 31-03-2011 12:59pm

Cheers for the comments of support.

My preference would be UCD or UL but as long as i get in somewhere i'm happy.

Jtsuited - i wouldnt worry about your age, i have just turned 30 . Better to start a career at 28/30 that you can do for the next 30 years then continue in a job/profession you hate for another 30+ years.

Sid_Justice · 31-03-2011 2:33pm

just wondering how you came to that decision sparrow3?

UCD and UL being your number 1 and 2?

sparrow3 · 31-03-2011 3:20pm

I am from Dublin and so UCD/ RCSI were actually my 1st and 2nd choice - But there is 0% chance of me getting into RCSI

Originally, i thought i would have to do GEM in the UK so did a year work experience as a HCA and a Phlebotomist - during that time i talked to a lot of doctors and made my choices based on that.

I have to say i like the PBL method of studying medicine so prefer limerick to cork but thats just my own preference. With the first class graduating UL this year and a new medical faculty opening, its only a matter of time before UL points requirements are in line with the others

Biologic · 31-03-2011 3:30pm

If RCSI is your real 1st choice you might as well put it down. You've nothing to lose and the points could drop.

Sid_Justice · 31-03-2011 4:08pm

I think UL has the largest intake of gradmed students, 105 this year with this set to raise* this year to 125

(rumour)

best of luck anyway

drspock · 31-03-2011 11:16pm

sparrow3 wrote: »

I am from Dublin and so UCD/ RCSI were actually my 1st and 2nd choice - But there is 0% chance of me getting into RCSI

Originally, i thought i would have to do GEM in the UK so did a year work experience as a HCA and a Phlebotomist - during that time i talked to a lot of doctors and made my choices based on that.

I have to say i like the PBL method of studying medicine so prefer limerick to cork but thats just my own preference. With the first class graduating UL this year and a new medical faculty opening, its only a matter of time before UL points requirements are in line with the others

I also did the GAMSAt for the 3rd time on Saturday. Probably the hardest paper overall!! London 2010 was much easier I found. Shudder at the though of doing it again, EVER!!!

You mention that you'd like to go to UL because they do better problem based learning than Cork? Is there much of a difference in the amount of PBL each of the medical schools do for GEP students. Does Cork have a differing approach to limerick?

sparrow3 · 01-04-2011 12:04am

well hopefully you wont have to mate. where you hoping for?

Im not saying UL is any better or worse then any other college that does GEM. It is just that UL follows the PBL method of teaching medicine as opposed to the traditional didactic method which is used in the other 3. Both methods are effective , it just depends which method suits you the best.

I know people in UCD, UCC and UL and all of them love it

bubbleking · 01-04-2011 11:15am

I went to the UL open evening last night - I have to say I was very impressed. I wasnt sure whether to put UL or Cork down after the Dublin schools but now Im thinking of moving UL to 1st spot :eek:

paraguay99 · 01-04-2011 2:31pm

bubbleking wrote: »

I went to the UL open evening last night - I have to say I was very impressed. I wasnt sure whether to put UL or Cork down after the Dublin schools but now Im thinking of moving UL to 1st spot :eek:

interesting. can you give a more detailed review??

Good Luck in GAMSAT 2011!

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