Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Grueller · 22-10-2020 2:58pm

cosatron wrote: »

if they give me 40 cent a litre for my milk and sh*t ill sign up straight away:D

Wait til you see, the sh1t will eventually be more valuable than the milk. EBI first two columns will be sh1t and fertility now.

kevthegaff · 22-10-2020 3:22pm

What's Jersey sh!t like?

straight · 22-10-2020 3:49pm

cosatron wrote: »

if they give me 40 cent a litre for my milk and sh*t ill sign up straight away:D

And as soon as they have u signed up and enough others they will keep cutting the price to maintain just enough supply. They will be able to blame energy markets and the like. The template already exists. Maybe drip feed out some rumours about the chance of making profit next year if you hang on in there.

straight · 22-10-2020 3:52pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

They cant make lads buyin to this their going to have to give real financial incentives to get buy-in at a big enough scale of farmers, if you look at germany it's the renewable energy side of things that keep the lights on for a lot of farms financially wise

I hope your right but I wouldn't hold my breath. My girls are great little sh*tters €€€€€€

jaymla627 · 22-10-2020 4:51pm

straight wrote: »

And as soon as they have u signed up and enough others they will keep cutting the price to maintain just enough supply. They will be able to blame energy markets and the like. The template already exists. Maybe drip feed out some rumours about the chance of making profit next year if you hang on in there.

Circa 5 million for each plant with 1200 acres of ground on a 3 cut system needed to supply it with silage plus slurry which would be 16000 tons(circa 1200 cows housed year round) the 400k cows slurry needed headline is pure bulls**t on the journal to be fair though , unless the co-ops fund it and incentivise it, it's a non-runner

Siamsa Sessions · 22-10-2020 5:19pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Circa 5 million for each plant with 1200 acres of ground on a 3 cut system needed to supply it with silage plus slurry which would be 16000 tons(circa 1200 cows housed year round) the 400k cows slurry needed headline is pure bulls**t on the journal to be fair though , unless the co-ops fund it and incentivise it, it's a non-runner

If it went ahead wouldn't it put an awful lot of heavy traffic on country roads, drawing slurry and grass to the plant?

alps · 22-10-2020 5:40pm

Prepare for fodder shortages...

120,000 acres of grass silage required for this fantasy..

Has driven plenty stock farms out of business in Germany (however these were subsidised).

Boys in Donegal.know all about land rent from digesters..

Say my name · 22-10-2020 6:58pm

alps wrote: »

Prepare for fodder shortages...

120,000 acres of grass silage required for this fantasy..

Has driven plenty stock farms out of business in Germany (however these were subsidised).

Boys in Donegal.know all about land rent from digesters..

This and the straw initiative is the Green influence in government to reduce cattle numbers in this country by the back door.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 22-10-2020 7:04pm

alps wrote: »

Prepare for fodder shortages...

120,000 acres of grass silage required for this fantasy..

Has driven plenty stock farms out of business in Germany (however these were subsidised).

Boys in Donegal.know all about land rent from digesters..

The sums simply don't add up for AD directly from grass unless there's a huge subsidy given. There might be a possibility of a viable industry using secondary cheaper feedstuff like slurry after the primary product, meat/milk, is taken.

And the figures from the Journal look like the 400k cows slurry from the winter rather than 160k housed year round. And even then I've seen nothing about the risks of disease transmission through the return of AD feedstuffs back onto farms.

Water John · 22-10-2020 8:42pm

I think disease risk should be low considering the temp it cooks at.
The adv is it can be spread on grazing ground.

Waffletraktor · 22-10-2020 9:29pm

alps wrote: »

Prepare for fodder shortages...

120,000 acres of grass silage required for this fantasy..

Has driven plenty stock farms out of business in Germany (however these were subsidised).

Boys in Donegal.know all about land rent from digesters..

Stop growing feed grains and grow ad rye/triticale/beet and maize. The ad jobbies use field clamps or a maus to load out avoiding mud on the road. The country is full of pipe systems a few artics with bulkers and tankers job done. Make straw scarce and domestic feed gets a floor.

alps · 22-10-2020 9:50pm

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

The sums simply don't add up for AD directly from grass unless there's a huge subsidy given. There might be a possibility of a viable industry using secondary cheaper feedstuff like slurry after the primary product, meat/milk, is taken.

And the figures from the Journal look like the 400k cows slurry from the winter rather than 160k housed year round. And even then I've seen nothing about the risks of disease transmission through the return of AD feedstuffs back onto farms.

The sums just may be different here. A subsidy is certainly needed for electricity production, but this project is planning to hook into the existing gas network and be consumed by the coops.

No risk of disease (they say) as digestate is pasteurized before being sent to the holding lagoons. However, you'd want some assurances about heavy metals etc and much is dependent on the quality control over the feedstock which is in many cases, waste from factories..

Slurry need not be from fully housed cows as the plan probably is to run the whole contents of slurry stores and lagoons through a separator, by a contractor on farm, and the solids trucked to the digester.

Problem with this is that everyone will want their slurry tanks separated on the 12th of January.

All I can see here is diesel burned to separate solids from slurry. Diesel burned to get the solids to the digester. Diesel turned to bring the digestate back to the farm and all that has happened is that the farmer has sent his nutrients out the gate to have to bring them back again....

Here's the twist and why they need government buy in..

They require slurry to be exported from the farm (slurry export to get under 170 or 250 limits) and re import the nutrients, but reclassified as a fertiliser...

Water John · 22-10-2020 10:11pm

The gas grid and injection points are not owned by the coops. Why do they think they'll have a monopoly?

Birdnuts · 22-10-2020 10:12pm

straight wrote: »

And as soon as they have u signed up and enough others they will keep cutting the price to maintain just enough supply. They will be able to blame energy markets and the like. The template already exists. Maybe drip feed out some rumours about the chance of making profit next year if you hang on in there.

As it is global NG prices are on the floor with massive(and increasing) supply with no customers for alot of it eg. Qatar have a fleet of LPG tankers hired to store excess production, while Nigeria is burning off nearly all its NG production from oil fields. This nonsense is typical Green Party Greenwash that would actually enourage even more pollution pressures via increased intensive grass production, tranport emmissions etc.

kevthegaff · 22-10-2020 10:17pm

A big increase in Bobby calves if all this land is taken out of grassland

jaymla627 · 22-10-2020 10:22pm

alps wrote: »

The sums just may be different here. A subsidy is certainly needed for electricity production, but this project is planning to hook into the existing gas network and be consumed by the coops.

No risk of disease (they say) as digestate is pasteurized before being sent to the holding lagoons. However, you'd want some assurances about heavy metals etc and much is dependent on the quality control over the feedstock which is in many cases, waste from factories..

Slurry need not be from fully housed cows as the plan probably is to run the whole contents of slurry stores and lagoons through a separator, by a contractor on farm, and the solids trucked to the digester.

Problem with this is that everyone will want their slurry tanks separated on the 12th of January.

All I can see here is diesel burned to separate solids from slurry. Diesel burned to get the solids to the digester. Diesel turned to bring the digestate back to the farm and all that has happened is that the farmer has sent his nutrients out the gate to have to bring them back again....

Here's the twist and why they need government buy in..

They require slurry to be exported from the farm (slurry export to get under 170 or 250 limits) and re import the nutrients, but reclassified as a fertiliser...

It's the co-ops needing to become carbon neutral by 2030 that's the push behind this and noting else, it's a green washing exercise on their part, ad plants aren't simple ran either by all accounts and it's a highly specialised skillset to run-one efficiently from reading up on them, slurry going into the ad plant needs to be pretty consistent too and from cows been fed a high quality diet, it's not simply the case that any type of slurry will do

K9 · 22-10-2020 10:31pm

Would it be more beneficial to piggeries as a way of exporting their slurry

Siamsa Sessions · 23-10-2020 11:05am

I hope whoever is paid to do the feasibility study on this reads some of the above comments. Lots of clear issues from various viewpoints.

Siamsa Sessions · 23-10-2020 11:24am

First lot of weanling heifers arrived last week. They are settled in well with plenty grass and 2kg of meal and rolled barley.

Pricing the cost of building a lean-to now onto existing cubicles.

If that is too high I might be selling these as in-calf heifers this time next year!

Edit: I can’t upload photos using the phone but will try if I’m on the laptop later

jaymla627 · 23-10-2020 11:47am

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I hope whoever is paid to do the feasibility study on this reads some of the above comments. Lots of clear issues from various viewpoints.

It's not economically viable, circa 15 cent per kwh produced is needed for these purposed ad plants to break even, at present co-ops are paying 3.5 cent per kwh for natural gas, if these plants go ahead at the scale talked about processing costs at co-ops will sky rocket unless massive subsidies where available from the goverment our eu funding to plug the shortfall

alps · 23-10-2020 12:15pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

It's not economically viable, circa 15 cent per kwh produced is needed for these purposed ad plants to break even, at present co-ops are paying 3.5 cent per kwh for natural gas, if these plants go ahead at the scale talked about processing costs at co-ops will sky rocket unless massive subsidies where available from the goverment our eu funding to plug the shortfall

They could fund it with a revolving fund..

Mooooo · 23-10-2020 12:18pm

Has Germanys electricity costs not risen to some of the highest in Europe since they've gone into the "green" energy in order to cover running costs?
They'll have a job on their hands if they find money for this and not paying adequate milk prices

Timmaay · 23-10-2020 12:24pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

It's not economically viable, circa 15 cent per kwh produced is needed for these purposed ad plants to break even, at present co-ops are paying 3.5 cent per kwh for natural gas, if these plants go ahead at the scale talked about processing costs at co-ops will sky rocket unless massive subsidies where available from the goverment our eu funding to plug the shortfall

Its pure green washing, in an effort to do some sort of deal to continue increasing milk output in Ireland. And this is the current single biggest problem with many clean methods of energy production, compared to the price of natural gas the economics are absolutely suicidal, and no individual sector would dream of voluntary going down that route. It has to come from government subsidiary, and obviously the government isn't going to go down this route unless most other countries are signed up to something similar.

Tonynewholland · 23-10-2020 12:39pm

This is like the biodiesel a few years ago.

alps · 23-10-2020 12:50pm

Interesting article
https://www.europeanbiogas.eu/switch-biogas-save-ireland-massive-fines/

The stated objective by Diagio is..

“We would purchase this gas via a certification scheme, whereby we would pay the generator for the quantity of gas that they inject into the national grid, and we would claim the associated GHG emissions benefit resulting from the displaced volume of natural gas. We burn gas on site to generate electricity and steam, which is distributed to all process and facilities users across the St. James’s Gate site.”

Farmers just need to be wise to how this plays out..

alps · 23-10-2020 12:54pm

Farm have an inate capability of reducing GHG's...

You can see here where Big Ag an Multinationals will try to position themselves to utilise farms and claim the associated emmissions benefit.

Farmers need to own that benefit and sell it on whatever way they see fit..

Siamsa Sessions · 23-10-2020 1:58pm

alps wrote: »

Farm have an inate capability of reducing GHG's...

You can see here where Big Ag an Multinationals will try to position themselves to utilise farms and claim the associated emmissions benefit.

Farmers need to own that benefit and sell it on whatever way they see fit..

100% agree. Farmers are the only ones who can generate milk, meat, cereals, and now slurry. People will want that - we just need to make sure the usual smart boys don’t get it from us on the cheap

Water John · 23-10-2020 2:06pm

I think carbon is priced around €30/ton. Forecasts put that at €80/ton in 10 years. All these boys who see €€€ are in the long game.

RightTurnClyde · 23-10-2020 2:56pm

alps wrote: »

They could fund it with a revolving fund..

.... with a supply agreement that has no mention of the price they will pay us.
Seems ludicrous doesnt it !!

Buford T. Justice XIX · 23-10-2020 3:41pm

We were collected today and the milk this evening won't be paid for till the 18th December, that's about 9 weeks away. You wouldn't want to be looking too closely at what's going on, it's too depressing

straight · 23-10-2020 4:20pm

Yer dreaming lads.primary producers don't get paid all over the world. Just accept it and don't be driving yerselves mad. I see Tesla made 380 million dollars (I think) but none of it came from selling cars. They made their money by selling carbon credits to other companies.

Water John · 23-10-2020 4:47pm

So they want your milk, beef and sh1te as cheap as possible.

straight · 23-10-2020 7:08pm

Water John wrote: »

So they want your milk, beef and sh1te as cheap as possible.

And they're getting it. My wife's job is subsidising my farming.

Say my name · 23-10-2020 7:29pm

straight wrote: »

And they're getting it. My wife's job is subsidising my farming.

And your farming and cheap oil have been subsidizing the world's population for the last 50 years.
One of those two is about to change however.

straight · 23-10-2020 8:39pm

Say my name wrote: »

And your farming and cheap oil have been subsidizing the world's population for the last 50 years.
One of those two is about to change however.

Remember the bio ethanol in the states when it was made law to include so much of it in fuel. It must be nearly 10 years ago. Food became scarce and there was food riots in the third world countries and the law was reversed. At least I think it was reversed. I'd love farmers to be able to get into the energy sector but somebody has to produce the food.

straight · 23-10-2020 9:07pm

The lisduff sale is on tomorrow in corrin mart. Streamed on LSL.

mahoney_j · 23-10-2020 9:41pm

straight wrote: »

The lisduff sale is on tomorrow in corrin mart. Streamed on LSL.

Serious herd there had eyes on 3 lots but my herd has become restricted because an ainmal I sold in March was killed last week and had legions .....have to do full herd test now .will watch sale on line

straight · 23-10-2020 10:12pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Serious herd there had eyes on 3 lots but my herd has become restricted because an ainmal I sold in March was killed last week and had legions .....have to do full herd test now .will watch sale on line

I'm short on replacements this year and am tempted but I've a closed herd and am a bit nervous about buying in.

alps · 23-10-2020 10:14pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Serious herd there had eyes on 3 lots but my herd has become restricted because an ainmal I sold in March was killed last week and had legions .....have to do full herd test now .will watch sale on line

Check your herd risk status after this.. Friend of mine went from C10 to C1 over this exact scenario, even though he tested clear after.

GrasstoMilk · 24-10-2020 6:03am

straight wrote: »

I'm short on replacements this year and am tempted but I've a closed herd and am a bit nervous about buying in.

How would they compare to the type of cows in your herd now or what you want to have the future
Super herd of cows no doubt but they wouldnt fit in with our herd here any way
Herd full of little goats here

straight · 24-10-2020 6:31am

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

How would they compare to the type of cows in your herd now or what you want to have the future
Super herd of cows no doubt but they wouldnt fit in with our herd here any way
Herd full of little goats here

They'd fit in alright. If I had them I'd cross them back with a smaller Fr. I'd be interested in having a couple in the herd to know how their performance compares to my own girls.

DukeCaboom · 24-10-2020 7:34am

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Yeah, that's the kind of one here. Mine is the bones of 30 years old now and I bought it from some place in Cork making them.

They're good for small areas but you'll know about it in bigger areas fairly soon. We just use it for a small holding yard in the exit from the parlour that's too narrow for the tractor and scraper. We used to use it for an isolated cubicle house that was only half stocked but it would have to be done twice a day or you'd be all day pushing and grunting to get it sorted.

Sorry I'd say it's o Neills in balinadee. They make the o Neill feeders too. Give them a buzz, I'd say they'll sell you a rubber for the scraper no bother.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 24-10-2020 10:48am

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Sorry I'd say it's o Neills in balinadee. They make the o Neill feeders too. Give them a buzz, I'd say they'll sell you a rubber for the scraper no bother.

That's them alright!

Thanks for that, couldn't think of the name at all:rolleyes:

Buford T. Justice XIX · 24-10-2020 10:51am

straight wrote: »

They'd fit in alright. If I had them I'd cross them back with a smaller Fr. I'd be interested in having a couple in the herd to know how their performance compares to my own girls.

I was there a few years ago doing a hoof trimming course, lovely animals and well looked after.

I'd be a bit like yourself, a bit wary of buying in from outside. My big fear would be bringing in mortellaro, that would absolutely wreck my head:(

alps · 24-10-2020 11:18am

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

That's them alright!

Thanks for that, couldn't think of the name at all:rolleyes:

Ask them if they sell a white blade replacement for the large scraper? It's a soft type of rubber/silicone or something, but they do it for the small scraper and the ease of pushing along the ground is quiet incredible...absolutely unbelievable until you get to handle it..

Wildsurfer · 24-10-2020 11:28am

alps wrote: »

Ask them if they sell a white blade replacement for the large scraper? It's a soft type of rubber/silicone or something, but they do it for the small scraper and the ease of pushing along the ground is quiet incredible...absolutely unbelievable until you get to handle it..

I've been meaning to try one of those! Doesn't look like they have it on website for wheelie scraper. On a side note, am I right in saying that was Caroline O'Neill in journal last week as a grass 10 finalist?

Say my name · 24-10-2020 11:48am

In Texas, farmers with more than 300 animal units (200 mature dairy cows) on one site in certain areas are required to do an 8 hour course on animal waste management when they apply for their license to keep said stock.
Then an additional 8 hours is required every 24 months.

https://frontporchnewstexas.com/2020/10/23/2020-northeast-texas-fall-dairy-conference-scheduled-for-october-28th/

They should have just signed up to Bord Bia.

Say my name · 24-10-2020 12:09pm

Will Armitage is at the very top of his game.
Milking 1,200 cows in an organic system.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/grassland-management/how-dairy-farmer-gets-14t-ha-dm-of-grass-with-minimum-inputs

tismesoitis · 24-10-2020 1:43pm

Lisduff sale postponed due to technical difficulties with on-line job. Disaster poor John OSullivan has to haul all the cows back home and get them milked. The stress on man and beast!

Base price · 24-10-2020 1:48pm

tismesoitis wrote: »

Lisduff sale postponed due to technical difficulties with on-line job. Disaster poor John OSullivan has to haul all the cows back home and get them milked. The stress on man and beast!

LSL is down nationwide. 16 livestock marts and one machinery sale affected.

Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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