Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

awec · 08-05-2021 1:27pm

bilston wrote: »

As far as the young lads were concerned...

Personally I thought McCann was as good as could be expected in that first half. I was surprised he was taken off, but then we needed Timoney's experience.

Reid did well off the bench, although we didn't see many scrums, but he is exactly what we are crying out for in the loose.

Lowry had a poor game, and was mercilessly targeted by Munster.

McIlroy didn't really get into the game

Rea missed a few tackles on Coombes (this guy is destined for a big career in red and green) early on but grew into the game quite well as he adapted to the pace. He needs more gametime...simple as that.

Of the rest it was pretty poor. Lyttle did his best, Timoney did well off the bench and Henderson fought hard, but it was a really disappointing night.

I think we just need the season to end at this stage!

Also the captains challenge is a nonsense. Both challenges may well have led to penalties, but they were soft. Do we need to be stopping the game for two minutes for stuff like that?

No complaints on the red for Addison though.

That was a sobering night. It's hard to know where we go from here.

We just continue with the status quo. Finish in the prowhatever playoff spots cause the standard is crap, maybe make the odd final, get to the QFs in Europe if we do well. That's about the height of it.

I think the sobering night was against Leicester. I am not going to read too much into last night as it wasn't that important and that showed in the team's attitude.

bilston · 08-05-2021 1:43pm

stephen_n wrote: »

I am surprised that Nucifora isn’t moving hell and earth to get Deegan to Ulster. With Conan back he is now 3rd choice and he is way to good for that.

Totally agree, he is young enough to have the drive which is what Ulster need. Personally I think it would be a good move for both parties, but obviously he has to want to move himself, but between Doris and Conan you'd think Leinster have 8 covered for the next few years.

bilston · 08-05-2021 1:46pm

awec wrote: »

We have enough Leinster cast offs already. We will never improve by signing guys who cannot get into the Leinster team.

I agree with the general point, but personally I think Deegan is a different case. He is at the start of his career (relatively speaking) and he is a level above the likes of O'Connor, Shanahan and even Timoney, but unlike Murphy, McGrath, Madigan and Moore has it all to do still.

bilston · 08-05-2021 1:48pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are there any prospects in the front row coming through at Ulster? There's been a lack of talent there in recent years. Meanwhile Ulster have young outside backs galore.

Callum Reid, Tom Stewart and Tom O'Toole.

Reid is brilliant in the loose, O'Toole is still developing in the scrum, Stewart is probably the best young hooker I've seen at U20 level for Ireland in a long time, and he was a year young.

So in theory those guys could do well in the future. But we need a Coombes type back rower, McCann has a big future, but he is a different sort of player to Coombes, we need a bruising ball carrying 6 or 8. I don't see anyone coming through like that.

Dubinusa · 08-05-2021 1:51pm

bilston wrote: »

Totally agree, he is young enough to have the drive which is what Ulster need. Personally I think it would be a good move for both parties, but obviously he has to want to move himself, but between Doris and Conan you'd think Leinster have 8 covered for the next few years.

I think it would be a good move for Deegan. He's a quality player and is only mid 20's. I don't think Ulster are weak or soft in the pack. It's just the depth isn't as good as it should be. I think if a healthy Jack McGrath was available and another international quality lock was in the squad, I reckon Ulster would be better.

bilston · 08-05-2021 1:53pm

launish116 wrote: »

Taken from UAFC, Currently in the system, trained with U20s recently.

Oscar Egan (QUB RFC) Tighthead prop (ear marked as big potential)
Conor McKee (QUB RFC) Scrum half
George Saunderson (QUB RFC) Loosheid prop (recently national talent squad)
James McCormick (Ballymena RFC) Hooker
Lorcan McLaughlin (QUB RFC) no8./exile
James Humphreys (QUB RFC) Outhalf
Harry Sheridan (DUFC) Lock/blindside flanker

Currently only hookers in academy I think.

I read somewhere that Egan is highly rated, but never seen him play, not that I could tell who a good scrummaging prop is anyway!

Harry Sheridan looked good in that A game against Leinster earlier in the year.

There's also Reuben Crothers who is a 7 and Jude Postelwaite who is a wing/centre, plus Ben Moxham and Ben Carson (both centres), all who would be U20, and of course Tom Stewart. I'm surprised those guys aren't in that group above, Stewart probably has a decent shout at captaining the Ireland 20s. I assume they injured or maybe training with Ulster as I'd thought anyone in a provincial academy was almost a shoe in for the Ireland 20s squad?

You always know Ulster are having a rough time when we start looking at who the next big thing is!!

launish116 · 08-05-2021 2:18pm

bilston wrote: »

I read somewhere that Egan is highly rated, but never seen him play, not that I could tell who a good scrummaging prop is anyway!

Harry Sheridan looked good in that A game against Leinster earlier in the year.

There's also Reuben Crothers who is a 7 and Jude Postelwaite who is a wing/centre, plus Ben Moxham and Ben Carson (both centres), all who would be U20, and of course Tom Stewart. I'm surprised those guys aren't in that group above, Stewart probably has a decent shout at captaining the Ireland 20s. I assume they injured or maybe training with Ulster as I'd thought anyone in a provincial academy was almost a shoe in for the Ireland 20s squad?

You always know Ulster are having a rough time when we start looking at who the next big thing is!!

Feels like we’re always looking for the next big thing, that always seems several years down the line.

Stewart has been appearing in a lot of the recent training videos. Also noticed Carothers in clips also.

John McKee is a name not being mentioned but was on media duty with the U20s months back. Has our academy head coach position been filled?

Utah_Saint · 08-05-2021 3:30pm

launish116 wrote: »

Feels like we’re always looking for the next big thing, that always seems several years down the line.

Stewart has been appearing in a lot of the recent training videos. Also noticed Carothers in clips also.

John McKee is a name not being mentioned but was on media duty with the U20s months back. Has our academy head coach position been filled?

As an Ulster fan I feel like I'm in a perpetual state of looking to the future.

bilston · 08-05-2021 3:40pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

As an Ulster fan I feel like I'm in a perpetual state of looking to the future.

I remember being on another MB getting excited about Stephen Ferris, Gareth Steenson, Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe coming through! That was probably about 17 years ago. To be fair we did win the CL in 2006 when those guys first emerged, but nothing since.

Utah_Saint · 08-05-2021 4:53pm

bilston wrote: »

I remember being on another MB getting excited about Stephen Ferris, Gareth Steenson, Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe coming through! That was probably about 17 years ago. To be fair we did win the CL in 2006 when those guys first emerged, but nothing since.

How I wish for another Ferris to come through

Clegg · 08-05-2021 4:57pm

Every rugby fan in Ireland wishes there were another Ferris coming through the ranks. He was just a destructive force. I'm not sure we've ever produced a backrow with the power and speed of Ferris at his peak. SOB comes closest, but he morphed into a different sort of backrow after his breakout season. Less impactful carrying, although still decent, but far greater impact at the ruck.

In general there's a dearth of Irish backrows who can be considered physically dominant to the point where they match up with the beasts of other test Nations. I thought Leavy could be one of those, but he's constantly injured like the former were. That's a depressingly similar story.

Buer · 08-05-2021 5:28pm

Deegan is athletic, skilled and quick. He is not what Ulster need at all though. Ulster need a few mean, physical, nasty f*ckers to set out the stall.

There's no point in having the chassis of a Porsche if there's a Fiat engine under the bonnet.

Hey boy · 08-05-2021 6:11pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are there any prospects in the front row coming through at Ulster? There's been a lack of talent there in recent years. Meanwhile Ulster have young outside backs galore.

Yes. Joe Mawhinney. 6'5, 20 stone.

Hey boy · 08-05-2021 6:14pm

bilston wrote: »

Callum Reid, Tom Stewart and Tom O'Toole.

Reid is brilliant in the loose, O'Toole is still developing in the scrum, Stewart is probably the best young hooker I've seen at U20 level for Ireland in a long time, and he was a year young.

So in theory those guys could do well in the future. But we need a Coombes type back rower, McCann has a big future, but he is a different sort of player to Coombes, we need a bruising ball carrying 6 or 8. I don't see anyone coming through like that.

McCormick is a very good ball carrier. Was bouncing boys in recent A game.

Hey boy · 08-05-2021 6:16pm

bilston wrote: »

I read somewhere that Egan is highly rated, but never seen him play, not that I could tell who a good scrummaging prop is anyway!

Harry Sheridan looked good in that A game against Leinster earlier in the year.

There's also Reuben Crothers who is a 7 and Jude Postelwaite who is a wing/centre, plus Ben Moxham and Ben Carson (both centres), all who would be U20, and of course Tom Stewart. I'm surprised those guys aren't in that group above, Stewart probably has a decent shout at captaining the Ireland 20s. I assume they injured or maybe training with Ulster as I'd thought anyone in a provincial academy was almost a shoe in for the Ireland 20s squad?

You always know Ulster are having a rough time when we start looking at who the next big thing is!!

Cruthers, Jude, Carson are all a year young for u20 this year.

Hey boy · 08-05-2021 6:20pm

Hey boy wrote: »

Cruthers, Jude, Carson are all a year young for u20 this year.

Also, Irvine 6'8" in the row.

McNabney, Lamont, in the BR. Lamont may move to hooker.

RuPi · 08-05-2021 6:34pm

launish116 wrote: »

Feels like we’re always looking for the next big thing, that always seems several years down the line.

Stewart has been appearing in a lot of the recent training videos. Also noticed Carothers in clips also.

John McKee is a name not being mentioned but was on media duty with the U20s months back. Has our academy head coach position been filled?

Conor McKee and Doak both Under 20’s this year but the third scrum half is the new head coaches son, will see how selection goes for that.

Interviews have been for both the academy roles, I would expect an announcement in the next few weeks.

Locke_Lamora · 08-05-2021 9:29pm

Hey boy wrote: »

Also, Irvine 6'8" in the row.

McNabney, Lamont, in the BR. Lamont may move to hooker.

Irvine was good when I last saw him. Looked like he needed lot of work in the strength and conditioning department, but he was very young and it's always a long game with players his build.

Couple of decent players coming from Ballymena in the last two years or so but there hasn't been much rugby for them so hard to know how everyone's progressed. Good halfbacks and a few forwards that should put their hands up for the academy.

Not really sure there's any forwards coming through that you can point and and say he's a standout talent other than maybe Tom Stewart.

Purist98 · 08-05-2021 11:25pm

bilston wrote: »

I read somewhere that Egan is highly rated, but never seen him play, not that I could tell who a good scrummaging prop is anyway!

Harry Sheridan looked good in that A game against Leinster earlier in the year.

There's also Reuben Crothers who is a 7 and Jude Postelwaite who is a wing/centre, plus Ben Moxham and Ben Carson (both centres), all who would be U20, and of course Tom Stewart. I'm surprised those guys aren't in that group above, Stewart probably has a decent shout at captaining the Ireland 20s. I assume they injured or maybe training with Ulster as I'd thought anyone in a provincial academy was almost a shoe in for the Ireland 20s squad?

You always know Ulster are having a rough time when we start looking at who the next big thing is!!

I watched a couple of Trinity's games this year before the club season stopped and Sheridan looked very impressive

Hey boy · 09-05-2021 10:10am

Hey boy wrote: »

Cruthers, Jude, Carson are all a year young for u20 this year.

Mccormick has another year as well.

Hey boy · 09-05-2021 10:11am

RuPi wrote: »

Conor McKee and Doak both Under 20’s this year but the third scrum half is the new head coaches son, will see how selection goes for that.

Interviews have been for both the academy roles, I would expect an announcement in the next few weeks.

Neither Doak nor Murphy appear to have been at the u20 camp.

stephen_n · 09-05-2021 10:25am

awec wrote: »

We have enough Leinster cast offs already. We will never improve by signing guys who cannot get into the Leinster team.

So what’s your answer? Sign 3 or 4 test level Boks? You can’t produce forwards. You don’t want capped forwards from Leinster who happen to be stuck behind two starting internationals. You seem to want Ulster to be the Man City of the Pro whatever.

molloyjh · 09-05-2021 10:46am

stephen_n wrote: »

So what’s your answer? Sign 3 or 4 test level Boks? You can’t produce forwards. You don’t want capped forwards from Leinster who happen to be stuck behind two starting internationals. You seem to want Ulster to be the Man City of the Pro whatever.

I think this is a valid point. Ulster's pack is a big problem and I don't think they can afford at this stage to turn their noses up at any player that would make it better.

RuPi · 09-05-2021 11:55am

Hey boy wrote: »

Neither Doak nor Murphy appear to have been at the u20 camp.

I don’t think any players training within senior squad bubbles have been involved yet. Once those players get integrated in, if they do, I would expect the ulster contingent to increase considerably with Stewart, Moxham, Carson, Crothers and Doak likely to be added, Rankin and Postlethwaite probably outside bets.

Lost Ormond · 09-05-2021 12:54pm

RuPi wrote: »

I don’t think any players training within senior squad bubbles have been involved yet. Once those players get integrated in, if they do, I would expect the ulster contingent to increase considerably with Stewart, Moxham, Carson, Crothers and Doak likely to be added, Rankin and Postlethwaite probably outside bets.

Depends on if any in senior set ups are getting game time or close to as with so little rugby played by so many the past 12 months they may give 20s game time to others to give more players a shot at academy spots or simply to play some games

Some Yoke · 10-05-2021 12:56pm

Quinn roux leaving Connacht for France, wouldve been such a great addition to ulster to power up the pack

launish116 · 10-05-2021 4:18pm

Some Yoke wrote: »

Quinn roux leaving Connacht for France, wouldve been such a great addition to ulster to power up the pack

Indeed, always injured though?

Bazzo · 10-05-2021 5:02pm

The provinces can't outbid each other anyway, if he had been offered enough to stay it would have been at Connacht.

launish116 · 11-05-2021 9:33am

Will be very interesting who they manage to sign as replacement!

Wikidy · 11-05-2021 9:54am

The Ulster pack is starting to look a little underwhelming again. The maul is excellent, but outside of that there is not much to scare the opposition. There is a lack of big powerful units. It looks that they have to play near their peak every game to be competitive, that is not sustainable long term and unfortunately that form looks to have dropped off a cliff atm.

Utah_Saint · 11-05-2021 10:31am

Wikidy wrote: »

The Ulster pack is starting to look a little underwhelming again. The maul is excellent, but outside of that there is not much to scare the opposition. There is a lack of big powerful units. It looks that they have to play near their peak every game to be competitive, that is not sustainable long term and unfortunately that form looks to have dropped off a cliff atm.

pretty much sums up Ulster of last 5 years. They have to play at their absolute best to get close to the better teams but that (as you say) is not sustainable.

We need a Synman type signing. Does Bakkies Botha fancy a 12month contract???:o

awec · 11-05-2021 10:35am

With the money around Leinster and this new money being pumped into Munster we really are at risk of being left behind. I think it's fairly delusional to think that all Ulster need is a little more time to develop, we need some new faces and that's the reality of the matter. Nakarawa is not going to be the answer to our problems.

Let's see what is done about it by the powers that be.

Scythica · 11-05-2021 10:45am

I tend to look back at when we've done well (in reality 2006 or 2012) and compare our pack from then to now.

In 2012 our pack was:

T Court
R Best,l
J Afoa
J Muller (capt)
D Tuohy
S Ferris
C Henry
P Wannenburg.

Replacements:
N Brady
P McAllister
D Fitzpatrick
L Stevenson
W Faloon

I know our game plan now is slightly different;
and I do feel like our depth now is better. However I cant help but feel beyond hendo I'm not sure if any of our incumbents get ahead of the starters?

Utah_Saint · 11-05-2021 10:47am

awec wrote: »

With the money around Leinster and this new money being pumped into Munster we really are at risk of being left behind. I think it's fairly delusional to think that all Ulster need is a little more time to develop, we need some new faces and that's the reality of the matter. Nakarawa is not going to be the answer to our problems.

Let's see what is done about it by the powers that be.

Petrie seems to be pretty clued in so my hope is he's on the phone every day fighting the case

Utah_Saint · 11-05-2021 10:48am

Scythica wrote: »

I tend to look back at when we've done well (in reality 2006 or 2012) and compare our pack from then to now.

In 2012 our pack was:

T Court
R Best,l
J Afoa
J Muller (capt)
D Tuohy
S Ferris
C Henry
P Wannenburg.

Replacements:
N Brady
P McAllister
D Fitzpatrick
L Stevenson
W Faloon

I know our game plan now is slightly different;
and I do feel like our depth now is better. However I cant help but feel beyond hendo I'm not sure if any of our incumbents get ahead of the starters?

I agree our depth is a bit better now but Hendo is the only player making team

Jump_In_Jack · 11-05-2021 10:48am

Could be way off, but I wonder if Jason Jenkins being a stopgap for Munster, could be a potential signing for Ulster for the season after next.
Bit like Jean Deysel.

awec · 11-05-2021 11:08am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could be way off, but I wonder if Jason Jenkins being a stopgap for Munster, could be a potential signing for Ulster for the season after next.
Bit like Jean Deysel.

Please no.

awec · 11-05-2021 11:09am

Scythica wrote: »

I tend to look back at when we've done well (in reality 2006 or 2012) and compare our pack from then to now.

In 2012 our pack was:

T Court
R Best,l
J Afoa
J Muller (capt)
D Tuohy
S Ferris
C Henry
P Wannenburg.

Replacements:
N Brady
P McAllister
D Fitzpatrick
L Stevenson
W Faloon

I know our game plan now is slightly different;
and I do feel like our depth now is better. However I cant help but feel beyond hendo I'm not sure if any of our incumbents get ahead of the starters?

That starting pack would eat our current starting pack for breakfast.

launish116 · 11-05-2021 11:25am

Feck a marque pack signing, we need 2-3 pro14 standard forwards. Nothing spectacular, just steady & reliable, allowing decent squad rotation! And no flogging!

launish116 · 11-05-2021 5:57pm

Injury update:

Marcus Rea suffered a concussion in the recent Guinness PRO14 Rainbow Cup game against Munster Rugby and will now follow the Graduated Return to Play Protocols.

John Cooney, who sustained a neck injury in the Challenge Cup semi-final fixture versus Leicester Tigers; and Kieran Treadwell, following an ankle injury in training, have joined the current injured list and are unavailable for selection

Irish 7s squad:
Aaron Sexton, Ben Moxham and Jude Postlethwaite

launish116 · 13-05-2021 3:37pm

Will Addison’s season is over 4 week ban for last weeks red.

Locke_Lamora · 13-05-2021 4:36pm

launish116 wrote: »

Will Addison’s season is over 4 week ban for last weeks red.

Can't get injured then, great news.

bilston · 13-05-2021 6:09pm

Nobody can even be bothered to post tomorrow night's team!

And I'm one of them.

Notable selections.. none really, a strong team is fair enough this week given the opposition. Gilroy comes in at wing, Bobby B is back after his concussion, Stockdale at 15, Burns back 10, Shanners at 9. We probably have our strongest available pack out.

Notable bench inclusions for Callum Reid and especially Nathan Doak.

I'm not bothered about this in the slightest. Hopefully we see a lot more rotation for Edinburgh and the Scarlets.

launish116 · 13-05-2021 6:53pm

bilston wrote: »

Nobody can even be bothered to post tomorrow night's team!

And I'm one of them.

Notable selections.. none really, a strong team is fair enough this week given the opposition. Gilroy comes in at wing, Bobby B is back after his concussion, Stockdale at 15, Burns back 10, Shanners at 9. We probably have our strongest available pack out.

Notable bench inclusions for Callum Reid and especially Nathan Doak.

I'm not bothered about this in the slightest. Hopefully we see a lot more rotation for Edinburgh and the Scarlets.

Actually thought Leinster would of thrown more youth in. Looking like a full house of provincial losses for us!

Really worry for us next season!

Locke_Lamora · 14-05-2021 10:46pm

Actually enjoyed watching that. We were frustrating at times, as usual, but showed a bit of bite and competitiveness. We didn't take our chances in the first half, gave them easy territory with poor penalties and bad cover in the backfield (Baloucoune in particular), and couldn't compete with their bench.

Don't think anyone stood out tbh, Stockdale was continuing his decent form, Rea carried well I thought and Hendy mixed the good with the bad. Lyttle was fun in attack but didn't cover the ground well in defence at 15. Hume was busy - carried well and didn't do too bad in defence. I think his distribution needs work, feel like he gets tunnel vision and cuts back in when a pass outside is on and could open things up. He's a more natural passer than McCloskey and doesn't look as awkward as him in making decisions so it's definitely something he can improve on. That's probably the one area Stewart Moore stands out from our other centres in, he's always looking outside and always looks like he's ready to make a pass.

Subs did ok but it was a big ask. Reid went backwards in a couple of scrums but I still think he's ready for more games next year. Roberts is an excellent third choice hooker to have. I always preferred Finlay to Doak but I'm not sure what to make of him. His distribution was a lot quicker than the A game earlier in the year but could still be quicker, his passing wasn't the most accurate either imo. He was a lot calmer and assured than his debut a while back which is great to see. Decent size for a 19 year old scrumhalf.

Locke_Lamora · 14-05-2021 10:58pm

Nobody knows how the Rainbow cup works anyway, so nobody can tell me we aren't first.

BossMullet · 14-05-2021 11:25pm

In a world where Andy Warwick gets red-carded on the basis of potential player safety issues and Henshaw gets nothing for his tackle, it is easy to fall apathetic towards the game of rugby.

Saying that, was expecting a massacre but they played with an intensity and determination that has been lacking recently. Hopefully we can finish this season strongly and look forward to next year.

launish116 · 14-05-2021 11:31pm

Remove the box kick and Shanahan is a new player!

Squidgy Black · 14-05-2021 11:57pm

launish116 wrote: »

Remove the box kick and Shanahan is a new player!

Was honestly shocked at how well he went in the first half. His passing was clean, he was nippy getting to the base of the ruck and ran some nice support lines, had a couple of snipes from the base too.

launish116 · 15-05-2021 1:59pm

Does make you wonder did our game plan impede him, he seems to cope quite well at pace last nite! Definitely at better passer than Doak! Really wish Finlay would get a chance.

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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