Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Locke_Lamora · 24-09-2020 5:03pm

I'm happy enough with the team. Quite frankly if we were to play our academy vs Leinster's it's a 50 point loss every time and there's nothing to really gain from that. There's senior players mixed in there that need minutes and the younger guys will learn from playing along side them.

Squidgy Black · 24-09-2020 5:23pm

Looks like both sides are using it as a replacements game with the upcoming season and international break in mind in fairness.

jacothelad · 24-09-2020 5:28pm

launish116 wrote: »

Agreed little bit of senior experience will help!

Think Faddes has suffered a lot from lack of continuity, constantly being rotated and starting in different positions. He was our top try scorer last season? Would love him to come good, but so much quality in academy he’s blocking.

Treadwell looks like he has almost fallen out of favour, but he does need game time.

Treadwell is a far better player than either of the O'Connors. Let's face it...and Carter on his showings. Treadwell has what it takes tro be a really top player. McFarland should invest heavily in his development this season. He is a big unit with pace and skill and not afaid to get his hands dirty.

launish116 · 24-09-2020 6:27pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Treadwell is a far better player than either of the O'Connors. Let's face it...and Carter on his showings. Treadwell has what it takes tro be a really top player. McFarland should invest heavily in his development this season. He is a big unit with pace and skill and not afaid to get his hands dirty.

Completely agree, just thought it was strange for him to be dropped for one final and bench the other. O’Connor seems to be rated higher, though I suppose they offer different things.

Paul Smeenus · 24-09-2020 7:44pm

AOC is the closest we've got to a dirty slab of TH second row. As good as Henderson is, he's naturally more in a lighter, athletic LH lock mould. As is Carter, as is Treadwell.

bilston · 24-09-2020 8:49pm

Are any fans allowed into the Benetton match next week?

I know England have extended the ban on supporters until potentially March, but I haven't heard anything about NI. I think there were about 500 at the Irish Cup Final back at the start of August...obviously things have taken a turn for the worse in recent weeks, but there hasn't been much clarification on this to my knowledge.

My personal opinion is that you could easily get 500 to 1,000 into Kingspan safely and more than maintain social distancing, but maybe it isn't economically viable?

Edit - I see from the Ulster website that a proposal was submitted to DfC about using Kingspan for a test event and they are awaiting a response.

I suspect politically it will be difficult for the Executive to give it the go ahead at the minute, hopefully not...

salmocab · 24-09-2020 9:24pm

bilston wrote: »

Are any fans allowed into the Benetton match next week?

I know England have extended the ban on supporters until potentially March, but I haven't heard anything about NI. I think there were about 500 at the Irish Cup Final back at the start of August...obviously things have taken a turn for the worse in recent weeks, but there hasn't been much clarification on this to my knowledge.

My personal opinion is that you could easily get 500 to 1,000 into Kingspan safely and more than maintain social distancing, but maybe it isn't economically viable?

Edit - I see from the Ulster website that a proposal was submitted to DfC about using Kingspan for a test event and they are awaiting a response.

I suspect politically it will be difficult for the Executive to give it the go ahead at the minute, hopefully not...

Maths will probably bite me but 500 people paying 30quid will only bring in 15,000 less fees. Would 15,000 pay for stewards, security extra cleaning. I don’t think so, the numbers would have to be a good bit higher before it’s not costing a Ulster money to run.

The Lost Sheep · 24-09-2020 9:30pm

salmocab wrote: »

Maths will probably bite me but 500 people paying 30quid will only bring in 15,000 less fees. Would 15,000 pay for stewards, security extra cleaning. I don’t think so, the numbers would have to be a good bit higher before it’s not costing a Ulster money to run.

stewards in a few of the provincial grounds arent paid. Security, cleaning on contracts so mightnt be major issue.

salmocab · 25-09-2020 9:04am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

stewards in a few of the provincial grounds arent paid. Security, cleaning on contracts so mightnt be major issue.

Still though I’d imagine the cost of having fans in is well north of 15k. There is obviously a takings point that will make it worth while, I can see that they’ll probably do a few games with smaller crowds even losing a few quid to prove it’s doable but Only if they think it will actually lead somewhere.

Paul Smeenus · 25-09-2020 1:54pm

Doak on the bench now as well.

Paul Smeenus · 25-09-2020 6:14pm

Say what now?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ian-madigan-has-cost-ulster-a-suspended-e10000-fine-and-one-pro14-point/

bilston · 25-09-2020 7:02pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Say what now?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ian-madigan-has-cost-ulster-a-suspended-e10000-fine-and-one-pro14-point/

If that had happened at club level they'd probably have been kicked out of the competition!

bilston · 25-09-2020 7:12pm

0-0 after 11 minutes in the A game.

Buer · 25-09-2020 7:26pm

Bill Johnston under the sticks. 7-0.

The wheels are off Leinster rugby.

bilston · 25-09-2020 7:44pm

Still 7-0 after 38 mins

bilston · 25-09-2020 7:46pm

According to Murray Kinsella on Twitter, David McCann has been a standout as has Stewart Moore.

Ethan McIlroy went off injured after 20 mins

bilston · 25-09-2020 7:48pm

Tommy O'Brien seemingly going well for Leinster

bilston · 25-09-2020 7:49pm

7-7 at half time...Max Deegan with the try

Locke_Lamora · 25-09-2020 7:53pm

Great to hear, particularly those two going well. Leinster have some very good players in there so that's a decent scoreline, even if we did go for a comparatively stronger side than them.

launish116 · 25-09-2020 7:55pm

bilston wrote: »

7-7 at half time...Max Deegan with the try

Sounding like a good game! Hopefully Ulster can keep it up in second half!

bilston · 25-09-2020 7:56pm

Jack Dunne apparently going well.

I get the impression that Ulster seem to have had more pressure, but Leinster defended well and obviously got their reward at the end of the half.

launish116 · 25-09-2020 7:58pm

Going by twitter does seem that way!

Murray Kinsella at the game so hopefully good write up after!

Locke_Lamora · 25-09-2020 8:49pm

Well well well, another Ulster win. Never in doubt. I've watched Ulster A get hammered too many times over the last couple of years and they pull this off without a stream ffs. Hopefully Murray Kinsella will put up a more detailed report or a few clips.

bilston · 25-09-2020 9:01pm

Very good win indeed. 29-14

Fair play to Murray Kinsella for the tweets.

Sounds as though it was well deserved.

bilston · 25-09-2020 9:04pm

https://www.the42.ie/leinster-a-ulster-a-report-rds-5215019-Sep2020/

Paul Smeenus · 25-09-2020 9:11pm

"while the Ulster back row of David McCann, Marcus Rea, and Greg Jones were outstanding. That trio combined strong work in contact with smart decision-making, good footwork, and sharp handling."

Please don't play with my heart.

Paul Smeenus · 26-09-2020 8:43am

https://www.the42.ie/tony-drennan-luxembourg-queens-5214611-Sep2020/

Lad in an unusual situation, but God knows we can't turn our nose up at any second row with talent. If he's good enough in a couple of years, he could bump out Carter.

launish116 · 26-09-2020 9:52am

Were there no subs used in last nights game?

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/tony-drennan-luxembourg-queens-5214611-Sep2020/

Lad in an unusual situation, but God knows we can't turn our nose up at any second row with talent. If he's good enough in a couple of years, he could bump out Carter.

Very interesting, someone with a brain and want about them! Stade sniffing around also, can’t be a bad thing.

Be great to get another no8/2nd row playing. He’s capped which could be an issue if he turns out good!

Squidgy Black · 26-09-2020 10:26am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/tony-drennan-luxembourg-queens-5214611-Sep2020/

Lad in an unusual situation, but God knows we can't turn our nose up at any second row with talent. If he's good enough in a couple of years, he could bump out Carter.

Is it really worth using up an NIQ spot for a lad that's playing AIL level and only had less than a year in the Stade academy and was released though?

You're likely not going to get more than 2 contracts out of the IRFU for him either because he's been capped elsewhere so wouldn't be a long term thing

bilston · 26-09-2020 10:35am

launish116 wrote: »

Were there no subs used in last nights game?

Very interesting, someone with a brain and want about them! Stade sniffing around also, can’t be a bad thing.

Be great to get another no8/2nd row playing. He’s capped which could be an issue if he turns out good!

It will turn out to be an issue. Interesting story, but not much relevance to Ulster at this stage...who knows in the future.

There were subs last night, they will be listed on the one of the match reports.

Paul Smeenus · 26-09-2020 11:05am

Are we really imagining that we'll have the money for established NIQs in the next year or so? We may very well have to cut our cloth to suit, and he'd be on a fraction of what Carter's on. I'm only ruminating, but money is going to be the IRFU's priority over the next couple of years.
I'm not suggesting we swoop for him, but the NIE situation is not going to be what it was. With less money about, some players might choose not to go pro.
Equally, if a few clubs go to the wall, we might be awash with journeymen prepared to play for less. Difficult to predict.

Also, on the 42 report for last night, it tells you who came on when in the team list. Interestingly,Callum Reid played the whole of the second half. Hayden Hyde was on after 20 minutes because of an injury to McIlroy.

launish116 · 26-09-2020 11:19am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Are we really imagining that we'll have the money for established NIQs in the next year or so? We may very well have to cut our cloth to suit, and he'd be on a fraction of what Carter's on. I'm only ruminating, but money is going to be the IRFU's priority over the next couple of years.
I'm not suggesting we swoop for him, but the NIE situation is not going to be what it was. With less money about, some players might choose not to go pro.
Equally, if a few clubs go to the wall, we might be awash with journeymen prepared to play for less. Difficult to predict.

Also, on the 42 report for last night, it tells you who came on when in the team list. Interestingly,Callum Reid played the whole of the second half. Hayden Hyde was on after 20 minutes because of an injury to McIlroy.

Agreed, beggars can’t be choosers and I’d say these conversations have already been had! Especially with the chat of integrating more academy over season. Wouldn’t be surprised if IRFU have already sent orders to start using home grown talent. Whilst money for marquee signing will be limited going forward. Integrate them now before we fall of a cliff.

When we’re so bear in the row and backrow, definitely worth keep an eye on him.

Re. Subs seems odd not to use more of the bench in an A game. Real shame it wasn’t streamed!

Paul Smeenus · 26-09-2020 11:42am

The only subs that might have benefitted us to use would have been the scrumhalves, as we know Shanahan is not a long-term answer. The starting back row were all young and trying to break through, Callum Reid got a half, Hyde got an hour.

Milasinovich is getting up to speed, as are McBurney, Shanahan, Gilroy, Johnston so they can be used in the upcoming games. I wanted to see young kids start to be blooded, but I understand why the team was what it was.

As tough as the end of that season was, I suspect we might be in a stronger position going into this season than a lot of other teams - less rusty, and with A games to bed in new players

Paul Smeenus · 28-09-2020 5:56pm

So. What sort of side do we think for Friday? Treviso have been no slouches this last couple of years.

Locke_Lamora · 28-09-2020 6:39pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

So. What sort of side do we think for Friday? Treviso have been no slouches this last couple of years.

Strongest available side surely, players have had plenty of rest and the break was probably treated as a preseason basically. Not sure who's injured - Baloucoune, Addison, Coetzee possibly, Hume took a knock against Toulouse didn't he?

UAEguy2020 · 28-09-2020 6:50pm

Would love to see so we thing like

1 O’Sullivan 2 Herring 3 O’Toole 4 Treadwell 5 Henderson 6 McCann 7 Reidy 8 Coetzee 9 Cooney 10 Burns 11 Stockdale 12 McCloskey 13 Hume 14 Lyttle 15 Lowry

16 McBurney 17 McGrath 18 Moore 19 O’Connor 20 Murphy 21 Mathewson 22 Madigan 23 Ludik

Utah_Saint · 28-09-2020 7:04pm

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Would love to see so we thing like

1 O’Sullivan 2 Herring 3 O’Toole 4 Treadwell 5 Henderson 6 McCann 7 Reidy 8 Coetzee 9 Cooney 10 Burns 11 Stockdale 12 McCloskey 13 Hume 14 Lyttle 15 Lowry

16 McBurney 17 McGrath 18 Moore 19 O’Connor 20 Murphy 21 Mathewson 22 Madigan 23 Ludik

I'm in two minds about Stockdale's place in the team...do we try to play him into form or give him a few weeks on the sidelines training hard?

launish116 · 28-09-2020 7:17pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I'm in two minds about Stockdale's place in the team...do we try to play him into form or give him a few weeks on the sidelines training hard?

Same or come from the bench! Think it’s time for some continuity at fullback als. Either let Stockdale lock it down or let Faddes actually have a run off games there without chop and change.

bilston · 28-09-2020 7:18pm

Some players have played a lot of rugby recently...McCloskey and Stockdale (Hume as well possibly) have played every minute I think...or had before McCloskey went off in Toulouse.

Its Benetton at home...I think we can take one or two risks in selection. Get Moore in the centre, start Lowry at 10 and at least put McCann or Rea Jnr on the bench.

Out of all that the only thing I see happening is Moore getting a shot, but we'll see.

launish116 · 28-09-2020 7:25pm

bilston wrote: »

Some players have played a lot of rugby recently...McCloskey and Stockdale (Hume as well possibly) have played every minute I think...or had before McCloskey went off in Toulouse.

Its Benetton at home...I think we can take one or two risks in selection. Get Moore in the centre, start Lowry at 10 and at least put McCann or Rea Jnr on the bench.

Out of all that the only thing I see happening is Moore getting a shot, but we'll see.

Milasonvich could do with a bench spot, needs game time! Likely chance of losing O’Toole to Ireland in coming weeks also.

Think Murphy might be given a break also, so Rea/McCann might get the nod! All depends on Coetzees fitness!

Looking at the fixtures 2 weeks, break, then 7 straight! Time to get some squad rotation/experience.

UAEguy2020 · 28-09-2020 11:21pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I'm in two minds about Stockdale's place in the team...do we try to play him into form or give him a few weeks on the sidelines training hard?

If we were still In last season I would drop him but with this being a new season I’m tempted to just have it a clean slate and give him a chance to show us what he’s got. He’s still young and for someone his age form is everything, if he is given a chance to find that form he might get back to his best soon.

Paul Smeenus · 28-09-2020 11:30pm

I'm kind of torn. Benetton are a decent team and you have to ask how much home advantage will actually count for, with no supporters in. If we lost this first game, it would really be a serious kick in the ballicks.

On the other hand, I do think we need to continue getting Milasinovich, Shanahan, McBurney, Gilroy etc up to speed, and not flog Coetzee and McCloskey. There's already niggles starting to set in. And I think one of our starting Ulster A back row should be lining out instead of Murphy or Rea Sr.

Everything you read about McFarland references his interest and studies in psychology. I am going to defer to his wisdom in dealing with the Stockdale Problem. Dan will have thought long and hard about how dropping Stockdale would work in terms of getting the best out of him. I trust him to know how to make our players tick - he dropped Cooney and Cooney looked to be improved when he started again.

I'm hoping we're a lot more battle hardened than Treviso, who had a couple of games against Zebre last month, I presume?

launish116 · 28-09-2020 11:46pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

hoping we're a lot more battle hardened than Treviso, who had a couple of games against Zebre last month, I presume?

Treviso have had a mixed bag at the end of August lost 13-17 at home to Zebre then won 9-16 away to Zebre. There not the team they were 2 seasons ago though!

Paul Smeenus · 29-09-2020 7:45am

“I feel it’s great we’ve had games, our bodies are hardened, it allows you to get into a routine, a rhythm of how you want to play,” says Grant, whose pack this week may well contain many of the men who helped Ulster A beat their Leinster counterparts on Friday.

https://www.the42.ie/ulster-new-season-benetton-rugby-roddy-grant-5216824-Sep2020/

Paul Smeenus · 29-09-2020 9:49am

Bigging up McCann, and Milasinovich sounds likely to feature.

" "He's still a young player, so there are things for him to work on - consistency (for one), but that comes with age.

"Especially as a flanker, you want a lot of involvements, the good players do, and you want those involvements to be positive. All of us know the best guys are the ones that can do it consistently.

"He's competitive, he's got good footwork in attack, he's coordinated, which sounds obvious but you look at him and you can tell he's athletic and efficient.

"There are a lot of aspects for him to work on but I'm really enjoying coaching him, he's a really intelligent guy. He seems like he's receptive and picking things up quickly.

"But you can't get experience without experiences. You need to build it up. That will come but he's certainly got the ability."

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/david-mccann-backed-to-lead-next-generation-as-ulster-prepare-to-blood-more-young-stars-39570724.html

Paul Smeenus · 29-09-2020 1:03pm

Ulster Rugby will welcome 600 supporters to the 18,211-seater Kingspan Stadium on Friday night for the first game of the 2020/21 Guinness PRO14 season.

https://www.ulsterrugby.com/2020/09/ulster-rugby-to-trial-safe-return-of-supporters-this-weekend/

Utah_Saint · 29-09-2020 1:09pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Ulster Rugby will welcome 600 supporters to the 18,211-seater Kingspan Stadium on Friday night for the first game of the 2020/21 Guinness PRO14 season.

https://www.ulsterrugby.com/2020/09/ulster-rugby-to-trial-safe-return-of-supporters-this-weekend/

thats great news. I suppose the lucky attendees will be picked from the season ticket holders

Paul Smeenus · 29-09-2020 1:10pm

From that Ulster Together promo.

Utah_Saint · 29-09-2020 1:27pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

From that Ulster Together promo.

Is this going to be a regular thing for all home games?

They will probably spread it out 200 in East and West stands. With 100 each in Family and Memorial end.

EDIT: Just checked the article. They will only be using 3 stands (Not the terrace)

Utah_Saint · 29-09-2020 1:34pm

After the Ulster A victory last week and the disappointment of no stream available (to witness an Ulster win over Leinster). Ulster (and all Provinces) should move to a box-office style payment for Ulster A and Academy games this season.
We are going to lose huge sums of money through lack of crowds so they might as well try and re-coup a small portion via people paying online to view a stream of Ulster A and Academy games. Keep the fee small enough and you would get at least a few hundred people wanting to watch.

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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