Post primary return to schools roadmap

SligoBrewer · 11-08-2020 10:59am

jackboy wrote: »

You are letting yourself down throwing around personal insults like that.

It is common sense that restricting the airways for extended periods of time will eventually have long term health effects. We will just have to wait and see how things pan out in the next few months. I am expecting the constant mask wearing to take a toll on the health of teachers and absenteeism to go significantly higher than for a normal winter.

If I am wrong, then great, no problem.

Mate, just stop. You're making a fool out of yourself.
Increased absenteeism is going to be because of the global pandemic that's ongoing.

ECDC Dr on Sarah McInerney just said that visors were not appropriate for schools.

SligoBrewer · 11-08-2020 11:00am

Bobtheman wrote: »

Wearing a mask will create difficulties in teaching but if it's required so be it. Can you take it off occasionally in the class ? Can students ? If people finding it hard to breathe?

If people find it hard to breathe in a mask, they probably shouldn't be in closed environments like classrooms.

SligoBrewer · 11-08-2020 11:03am

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I would love to know this for sure, the difference in transfer from 1m to 2m is pretty impressive but it's not zero, I'm wondering if being over 2m and using a screen angled between me and students would be enough without a mask. I've ordered a microphone too. I'm going to put perspex I think in front of my desk myself. I have a huge room thankfully with good ventilation and a desk on a plinth.

I think initially I'll just do everything, mask, 2m distance, perspex and see as research comes out what the story is.

The aerosol transmission stuff that has kicked off the focus on ventilation in recent weeks is all because 2m indoors with no masks is not enough. Especially in an environment where we will be projecting our voices. There will be a mandatory mask policy in my classroom.

wirelessdude01 · 11-08-2020 11:08am

SligoBrewer wrote: »

There will be a mandatory mask policy in my classroom.

And how will you enforce that?

Sure the department yesterday confirmed to a primary principal I know that they cannot ask children that they know have been abroad within 14 days to stay at home and quarantine.

Whole situation is riddled with holes.

FishOnABike · 11-08-2020 11:25am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And how will you enforce that?

Sure the department yesterday confirmed to a primary principal I know that they cannot ask children that they know have been abroad within 14 days to stay at home and quarantine.

Whole situation is riddled with holes.

And yet in other workplaces, before being allowed back on site, people have to submit a form confirming that in the last 14 days they haven't travelled abroad, haven't been in close contact with a diagnosed or suspected case pending testing, have not themselves been referred for testing or waiting a test result, etc....

But in schools, which are more congested than most other workplaces, none of this applies :rolleyes:

I don't think I can suspend reality for long enough to be able to hope it all works out.

wirelessdude01 · 11-08-2020 11:36am

FishOnABike wrote: »

And yet in other workplaces, before being allowed back on site, people have to submit a form confirming that in the last 14 days they haven't travelled abroad, haven't been in close contact with a diagnosed or suspected case pending testing, have not themselves been referred for testing or waiting a test result, etc....

But in schools, which are more congested than most other workplaces, none of this applies :rolleyes:

I don't think I can suspend reality for long enough to be able to hope it all works out.

It's on our return to work form alright but think parents should have to fill one in for their children as well. Just find it very strange.

pandoraj09 · 11-08-2020 11:45am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

It's on our return to work form alright but think parents should have to fill one in for their children as well. Just find it very strange.

It wasn't on my return to work form. No mention of being abroad at all. I'm planning on wearing a visor for small classes where I can be 2m or more away from anyone else and a mask for the bigger classes. I've ordered a mic too. My issue then will be the fogging of the glasses but sure I'll cope. Still wondering what we will do if a kid comes in with no mask/refusing to wear one....Ours are great for the notes in the journal saying they have allergies/sensory issues etc etc that mean they can't wear the school jumper. I'm sure that will be extended to masks too.

hi! · 11-08-2020 11:48am

jackboy wrote: »

You are letting yourself down throwing around personal insults like that.

It is common sense that restricting the airways for extended periods of time will eventually have long term health effects. We will just have to wait and see how things pan out in the next few months. I am expecting the constant mask wearing to take a toll on the health of teachers and absenteeism to go significantly higher than for a normal winter.

If I am wrong, then great, no problem.

Did you not read my reply? You wanted to hear from a nurse- it has no affect on health. No one I know who has been wearing them for long shifts has had ill health. I’ve been wearing them since April and have only had to take one day sick leave - as I was waiting for a swab result, not because of mask wearing.

SligoBrewer · 11-08-2020 11:50am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And how will you enforce that?

Same as I enforce the other safety equipment that I deem necessary in my class. It's not new to Science teachers.

Starkystark · 11-08-2020 11:52am

It’s all a half baked plan. I’m sick at the thought of going back more than any other year. Our school has had to take in 50 more first years this year. We are crammed to capacity. Try look for a free room at anytime last year and there is nothing! Students were without any hand soap last year for weeks whilst the deputy and principal gets their offices kitted out like something you’d see in the cooperate world. It already had been alluded that they’re struggling to find funding for hand sanitisers. I am done!

Icyseanfitz · 11-08-2020 1:37pm

On top of all the issues, our school have had to order a couple of hundred single desks that won't be here for September, are we just not going to open up for however long it takes to get desks for the adequate social distancing (or pretend social distancing really with class numbers)

dhaughton99 · 11-08-2020 1:50pm

The school secretary was saying that the local community employment scheme is offering cleaners through the CE scheme to wipe down surfaces when classes swap over.

Alex86Eire · 11-08-2020 2:24pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

On top of all the issues, our school have had to order a couple of hundred single desks that won't be here for September, are we just not going to open up for however long it takes to get desks for the adequate social distancing (or pretend social distancing really with class numbers)

I would have thought most schools won't be able to get 1m between students in a classroom regardless of the type of desk used. We certainly won't be. I assume you will open prior to the desks arriving.

ethical · 11-08-2020 3:34pm

Any way to find out what % of schools are ignoring "base classroom" with all their issues in favour of teacher based rooms where there is more control and a much more manageable situation?

Icsics · 11-08-2020 4:33pm

ethical wrote: »

Any way to find out what % of schools are ignoring "base classroom" with all their issues in favour of teacher based rooms where there is more control and a much more manageable situation?

This is what I would like to know too. The Principal & his aide seem to have decided on student based classroom, no consultation & are now citing 'best practice' & 'in line with' return to school doc.

TheValeyard · 11-08-2020 5:34pm

I know of four schools doing a student base room approach.

Three schools continuing with teachers change rooms.
And two schools doing a hybrid approach. All year groups confined to certain corridors and teachers given baserooms in that area.

DubLad69 · 11-08-2020 6:21pm

Is it unusual that we still don't know who our LWR is, or if students will have a base room yet?

Does the LWR go back in before other staff?

TheValeyard · 11-08-2020 6:47pm

DubLad69 wrote: »

Is it unusual that we still don't know who our LWR is, or if students will have a base room yet?

Does the LWR go back in before other staff?

LWR will be back before other staff (we were told) depends on school.

Base room also depends on school. Some yes, some no.

am_zarathustra · 11-08-2020 7:01pm

LWR has to be elected by staff so no reason they need to be back before school starts

The Aide will be back, many will probably have already started work. It's being split in our place, so 2 people doing 7.5 days or something.......

Bobtheman · 11-08-2020 10:06pm

SligoBrewer wrote: »

If people find it hard to breathe in a mask, they probably shouldn't be in closed environments like classrooms.

It's not a continuous thing but it's generally harder to breathe with a mask on. I think that's pretty clear. It's one thing popping in a shop or walking on a street.. Another to wear it for hours

Bobtheman · 11-08-2020 10:09pm

Is the LWR paid? Another layer of bureaucracy? In my experience principals largely do what they want. The new mgt posts and all their attached bull**** provide a contraceptive layer between them and the proletariat!

am_zarathustra · 11-08-2020 10:14pm

LWR gets two hours off their timetable, different arrangement if they are not a teacher. I'd be onto the Union if it isn't an elected position

Leftwaffe · 11-08-2020 10:15pm

We are going to be pushing it tight with only two and a bit weeks to go. So much work to be done tbh. A good lot of classrooms being modified, built in countertops and cabinets all being pulled out. Doing most of it myself as well.

It's going to be frightening for the girls when they come back. I actually feel sorry for them.

km79 · 11-08-2020 10:27pm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

We are going to be pushing it tight with only two and a bit weeks to go. So much work to be done tbh. A good lot of classrooms being modified, built in countertops and cabinets all being pulled out. Doing most of it myself as well.

It's going to be frightening for the girls when they come back. I actually feel sorry for them.

I honestly think they need to consider pushing out the return date by a couple of weeks if they want a safe return for all

Leftwaffe · 11-08-2020 10:30pm

km79 wrote: »

I honestly think they need to consider pushing out the return date by a couple of weeks if they want a safe return for all

You're right. However the "plan" should have been released weeks and weeks earlier.

2xj3hplqgsbkym · 11-08-2020 10:39pm

If you had a child who was vulnerable or high risk, would you allow them to return to school with what we know presently?

Leftwaffe · 11-08-2020 11:04pm

Jonathan Mushy Ring wrote: »

If you had a child who was vulnerable or high risk, would you allow them to return to school with what we know presently?

Not a hope, no.

SligoBrewer · 11-08-2020 11:15pm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

You're right. However the "plan" should have been released weeks and weeks earlier.

The plan is ****.

RealJohn · 11-08-2020 11:48pm

Jonathan Mushy Ring wrote: »

If you had a child who was vulnerable or high risk, would you allow them to return to school with what we know presently?

I wouldn’t let them return to school at all, until this is under control, if they’re “high risk”. I certainly wouldn’t trust schools to guarantee the child’s safety.

Leftwaffe · 11-08-2020 11:51pm

SligoBrewer wrote: »

The plan is ****.

That is also true, yes.

DubLad69 · 11-08-2020 11:56pm

Jonathan Mushy Ring wrote: »

If you had a child who was vulnerable or high risk, would you allow them to return to school with what we know presently?

Not a chance. I live with a high risk person and they will be moving out until there is a vaccine or I am working from home.

If it was my child, I wouldn't even have anything to think about. They would not be going back into the school building until there is a vaccine, or class sizes are halved.

If I had a child who was medium or high risk they would be staying home until there is a vaccine. But I also wouldn't be allowing them to play on the street with friends without social distancing.

Newbie20 · 12-08-2020 12:11am

We are keeping our own classrooms so very happy with that. All students will have to wear a mask and teachers will wear mask or visor. Happy with that too, makes me feel slightly safer going back.

I had to wear a mask for about 10 hours straight in hospital recently. What I found was that because the room was well ventilated, it didn’t really bother me too much. However, when I was in another day for just 2 hours, the room was very stuffy and I struggled a bit that time.

maynooth_rules · 12-08-2020 10:05am

Icsics wrote: »

This is what I would like to know too. The Principal & his aide seem to have decided on student based classroom, no consultation & are now citing 'best practice' & 'in line with' return to school doc.

We, as a staff, are always consulted about decision in school and given a chance to have an input. We were not given that with student based classrooms which is so disappointing. I know from speaking to other teachers in the school that we would all feel much more comfortable and safe in a teacher based class. We have got rid of lockers, pushed towards double classes when possible and staggered breaks. The student based classrooms just seems like a token policy pushed in at this point. I think many schools will move away from it by mid term. More draw backs than positives to it.

wirelessdude01 · 12-08-2020 10:09am

maynooth_rules wrote: »

We, as a staff, are always consulted about decision in school and given a chance to have an input. We were not given that with student based classrooms which is so disappointing. I know from speaking to other teachers in the school that we would all feel much more comfortable and safe in a teacher based class. We have got rid of lockers, pushed towards double classes when possible and staggered breaks. The student based classrooms just seems like a token policy pushed in at this point. I think many schools will move away from it by mid term. More draw backs than positives to it.

I'm not PP level but I can see the reversal of the student based classrooms alright. To me it makes zero sense and creates far more issues than it solves. These will become blatantly apparent once school is back. Things might look okay on paper but the reality will be different.

mirrorwall14 · 12-08-2020 11:25am

As someone who was bullied in school myself basing kids in their own classroom and rotating the Supervision was my worst nightmare. I hated those minutss

Bobtheman · 12-08-2020 2:03pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

As someone who was bullied in school myself basing kids in their own classroom and rotating the Supervision was my worst nightmare. I hated those minutss

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. I suppose kids moving can create opportunities too? Our principal sees the value in keeping our rooms but didn't consult.
The union in our school declined as people fell over their colleagues to get promotion. Then a lot of new teachers felt let down by the dual pay scales. Thus most principals ain't afraid of the unions.
However we are still better off than meat workers. The fact that agency staff are the main employer says it all. But after 100 years of center right government that's what you get. Though the disunity and sometimes farcical policies of some left wing parties doesn't help.

mirrorwall14 · 12-08-2020 2:04pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. I suppose kids moving can create opportunities too? Our principal sees the value in keeping our rooms but didn't consult.
The union in our school declined as people fell over their colleagues to get promotion. Then a lot of new teachers felt let down by the dual pay scales. Thus most principals ain't afraid of the unions.
However we are still better off than meat workers. The fact that agency staff are the main employer says it all. But after 100 years of center right government that's what you get. Though the disunity and sometimes farcical policies of some left wing parties doesn't help.

Yes but it’s much easier to tag to someone who is nice and you are on the move often with the teacher in the corridor on the way to her class too. It was infinitely better when we had science or a subject we had to leave the room for tbh

Bobtheman · 12-08-2020 5:29pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Yes but it’s much easier to tag to someone who is nice and you are on the move often with the teacher in the corridor on the way to her class too. It was infinitely better when we had science or a subject we had to leave the room for tbh

Good points.

mirrorwall14 · 12-08-2020 5:44pm

I believe they did eventually move to classrooms for Teachers. There was a lot of time lost to set up by staff as well

LW2018 · 12-08-2020 7:15pm

New circular out to allow for payment of additional supervision & substitution that is extra to the S&S duties. All aimed to help monitor social distancing within the school and because of staggered break and lunch times. Paid at an hourly rate - will help Principals for sure

scrubs33 · 12-08-2020 7:21pm

LW2018 wrote: »

New circular out to allow for payment of additional supervision & substitution that is extra to the S&S duties. All aimed to help monitor social distancing within the school and because of staggered break and lunch times. Paid at an hourly rate - will help Principals for sure

Different rates for pre/post 2011

DubLad69 · 12-08-2020 7:38pm

LW2018 wrote: »

New circular out to allow for payment of additional supervision & substitution that is extra to the S&S duties. All aimed to help monitor social distancing within the school and because of staggered break and lunch times. Paid at an hourly rate - will help Principals for sure

I assume that this is optional? As in teachers will have to be asked first?

LW2018 · 12-08-2020 8:02pm

I presume so? Part time staff are given first priority and then full time staff who have not opted out of S&S but I’d imagine that it will be optional. Most likely there will be an additional supervision rota based on those opting for extra hours. Hard to give over more slots with a full teaching timetable when you could already be called for a lot of the weekly S&S slots you’ve already offered over. Supervision will be needed in the mornings etc though, but still needs the buy-in. It is disappointing that even this is still pre and post 2011 pay rates though. Continuing on that divide when they need such a buy-in is completely wrong

Pursefan · 12-08-2020 9:19pm

Hi all, seriously stressed after seeing the social distancing plans on my school. They are talking about spacing kids " shoulder to shoulder ". Not even one metre apart. I measured it. Students desk right up near teachers desk and less than 3 feet from white board. I feel we will be lambs to the slaughter here and principals will say because they are putting in screens in front of the teachers desk, there is no need for social distancing. Madness. Tempted to send the photos to a newspaper to show parents what their kids will really experience in school.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-08-2020 9:27pm

Pursefan wrote: »

Hi all, seriously stressed after seeing the social distancing plans on my school. They are talking about spacing kids " shoulder to shoulder ". Not even one metre apart. I measured it. Students desk right up near teachers desk and less than 3 feet from white board. I feel we will be lambs to the slaughter here and principals will say because they are putting in screens in front of the teachers desk, there is no need for social distancing. Madness. Tempted to send the photos to a newspaper to show parents what their kids will really experience in school.

We got some pics emailed on our classroom layouts as well. Didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Students with their backs completely to the board. Students about a foot apart if that, at double desks. Crazy stuff

mirrorwall14 · 12-08-2020 9:28pm

Pursefan wrote: »

Hi all, seriously stressed after seeing the social distancing plans on my school. They are talking about spacing kids " shoulder to shoulder ". Not even one metre apart. I measured it. Students desk right up near teachers desk and less than 3 feet from white board. I feel we will be lambs to the slaughter here and principals will say because they are putting in screens in front of the teachers desk, there is no need for social distancing. Madness. Tempted to send the photos to a newspaper to show parents what their kids will really experience in school.

Post primary? Any chance of sharing? I have no idea what our school will look like. It doesn't look like there's any changes yet

Bobtheman · 12-08-2020 9:39pm

If you opted out of s and s can you opt into these extra hours ?

themusicman · 12-08-2020 9:42pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

If you opted out of s and s can you opt into these extra hours ?

Yes
And it doesn’t mean you have opted into the s and s rota

It’s to be a completely separate and additional layer...but it’s only supervision...no substitution allowed from the fund

Pursefan · 12-08-2020 9:45pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

We got some pics emailed on our classroom layouts as well. Didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Students with their backs completely to the board. Students about a foot apart if that, at double desks. Crazy stuff

It is just surreal. My colleague rang the ASTI and they seem fine with all this!! Have they all totally lost their minds???

Treppen · 13-08-2020 11:13am

LW2018 wrote: »

New circular out to allow for payment of additional supervision & substitution that is extra to the S&S duties. All aimed to help monitor social distancing within the school and because of staggered break and lunch times. Paid at an hourly rate - will help Principals for sure

Keep a careful eye on how many classes are supervised for Covid Vs regular S&S.

I think there will be many many 'mixups' of teachers down for S&S but in fact covering a period which should be paid.

Watch this space.

Post primary return to schools roadmap

Comments