Tesla Model S

slave1 · 04-01-2019 1:49pm

Slaanesh wrote: »

I imagine it was a length limitation.

Yep,10m run to carry 18.2 Gbps with 60Hz Subsampling 4:4:4, ain't no Dealz gonna carry that load

macnab · 04-01-2019 4:49pm

My 142 reg s85 would probably manage 360km in summer at modest speeds, the EPA figure is probably doable at 80 or 90km/h but not in winter.
With a 22kwh onboard charger I can add 110km for every hour I am plugged into a slow charger, providing its a 22kwh charging post.
With that in mind, Dublin to Galway return (450km) is not possible without stopping to charge. There is no Tesla supercharger on this
route so unless I splash out €500 on a CHAdeMO adapter I will have to stop for at least 90 minutes in order to make it back to Dublin on empty.
A supercharger station in Athlone or thereabouts would probably cut that stop down to 20 minutes.

hatrack · 10-01-2019 10:47am

No more 75D from Monday.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1083141248872075265?s=21

ELM327 · 10-01-2019 10:48am

Clearly trying to differentiate the model 3 price range from the model S price range IMO.
They want to position the S/X as the flagship

unkel · 10-01-2019 10:57am

Yep, classic marketing.

Like Porsche in the mid to late 90s. Nearly going bankrupt, they launched the Boxster. Pretty much just a 911, same engine but made smaller and less powerful, and with a few cheaper parts like the gearbox "borrowed" from Audi and some cheaper suspension bits. Porsche priced and "placed" the Boxster significantly below the 911, but retained a fairly high margin. The Boxster was a huge success and saved Porsche from going under.

Tesla needs to rake in the cash from big volume sales of the high margin higher end Model 3 (long range, dual motor, lots of expensive options ticked) above anything else at this stage.

hatrack · 10-01-2019 10:57am

ELM327 wrote: »

Clearly trying to differentiate the model 3 price range from the model S price range IMO.
They want to position the S/X as the flagship

Suspect there’s two main reasons. Firstly they want to move away from using battery capacity for models like with the Model 3 and sell standard range / long range (Elon confirmed this in a subsequent tweet). This will allow them to reduce the number of cells used but maintain the range as efficiencies improve.

Secondly there’s a new supercharger coming, suspect the need to upgrade the cells in Model S and X to allow them to benefit from the new higher charging speeds. I assume they’re moving to the same type of cell that is used in Model 3.

unkel · 12-01-2019 8:03pm

Any idea what the VRT bill would be for a GBP40k late '16 S75 Autopilot?

Can't help myself, still very tempted by one

hatrack · 12-01-2019 8:13pm

unkel wrote: »

Any idea what the VRT bill would be for a GBP40k late '16 S75 Autopilot?

Can't help myself, still very tempted by one

If going late 2016 it’s worth trying to get AP2. I think they’ve stopped updating AP1 (or the future AP1 updates will lack some of the upgrades that AP2 cars get).

You’ll know if it’s AP2 if there are cameras in the B pillars.

No idea on the VRT but would suspect €6 - 7k. It’s 14% of whatever Revenue’s open market selling price is less €5k.

EDIT: might also be worth waiting to see what Model 3 AWD pricing will be. Suspect it won’t be far off what you’ll end up paying for the 2016 Model S. Seems to be some optimism developing that RHD may start arriving by May / June. First LHD European models are on a ship that left San Francisco today.

unkel · 12-01-2019 8:18pm

hatrack wrote: »

If going late 2016 it’s worth trying to get AP2.

I might pay GBP40k, but I certainly will not pay >GBP55k

Was on the list for Model 3, but it's a saloon and we have a dog now, so that's out. Maybe once Model 3 hits the road in the UK, values of second hand Model S will be hit fairly hard?

Just realised that the 4 year unlimited warranty is limited to 50k miles. That's not great.

dmcg90 · 14-01-2019 1:59pm

unkel wrote: »

I might pay GBP40k, but I certainly will not pay >GBP55k

Was on the list for Model 3, but it's a saloon and we have a dog now, so that's out. Maybe once Model 3 hits the road in the UK, values of second hand Model S will be hit fairly hard?

Just realised that the 4 year unlimited warranty is limited to 50k miles. That's not great.

I'm looking at getting a dog and a model 3 - curious as to why having a dog would be a dealbreaker, just size in the back?

agentblue · 14-01-2019 2:14pm

dmcg90 wrote: »

I'm looking at getting a dog and a model 3 - curious as to why having a dog would be a dealbreaker, just size in the back?

Hatchback Vs. Saloon??

unkel · 14-01-2019 2:29pm

Can't lock dog in the boot...

f@steddie · 14-01-2019 2:50pm

unkel wrote: »

Can't lock dog in the boot...

You sure? https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/tesla-model-s-shooting-brake-worlds-quickest-estate-now-completed

(I believe it costs the same again as the car to make the changes.

)

ELM327 · 14-01-2019 2:52pm

f@steddie wrote: »

You sure? https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/tesla-model-s-shooting-brake-worlds-quickest-estate-now-completed

(I believe it costs the same again as the car to make the changes. )

That's a model S.
Which a) you can already lock the dog in the boot it's a hatchback
and b) is not a model 3, which is a saloon, and you cannot lock the dog in the boot

f@steddie · 14-01-2019 4:29pm

ELM327 wrote: »

That's a model S.
Which a) you can already lock the dog in the boot it's a hatchback
and b) is not a model 3, which is a saloon, and you cannot lock the dog in the boot

Sorry - Model S thread. Should have read it properly. Tired.

agentblue · 16-01-2019 5:06pm

Can I ask any Model S owners on here, who are you insured with?

Sabre Man · 16-01-2019 7:48pm

agentblue wrote: »

Can I ask any Model S owners on here, who are you insured with?

Allianz

Sabre Man · 17-01-2019 12:28pm

Tesla will end referral program to help Model 3 cost, says Elon Musk
https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/tesla-end-referral-program-elon-musk/

dmcg90 · 17-01-2019 12:48pm

Sabre Man wrote: »

Tesla will end referral program to help Model 3 cost, says Elon Musk
https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/tesla-end-referral-program-elon-musk/

Smart move - will add a lot more to the bottom line and I don't think they needed it to be honest.

ELM327 · 17-01-2019 12:49pm

Yes it's gone past the point where it's needed.
Wasn't really adding value for the purchaser once they removed free supercharging for life.

unkel · 18-01-2019 12:23pm

Tesla fires 3000 employees

Elon claims Q4 was profitable but not as much as Q3. Cutting cost to improve profitability.

Linky

Johnboy1951 · 18-01-2019 12:48pm

"Tesla will need to make these cuts while increasing the Model 3 production rate ..."

Is he going back to more automation I wonder?
Else those aims seem contradictory.

Mike9832 · 18-01-2019 7:55pm

unkel wrote: »

Tesla fires 3000 employees

Elon claims Q4 was profitable but not as much as Q3. Cutting cost to improve profitability.

Linky

They are screwed tbh

Wont be the only game in town for long

Sharks are closing in fast

How can they not make a profit selling high end Model 3s and have the cheapest batteries around?

They'll need to get a proper CEO in and give Musk something else to do, plan for Mars

unkel · 18-01-2019 9:29pm

They are making a profit, Thierry. They need to maximise profit and cash inflow to finance expansion of Model 3 production, which will bring economies of scale, which should lead to a decent margin base Model 3

That's all exactly what I would expect Tesla to do at this stage. At this point saying that they're screwed is a pretty ridiculous remark. They're doing all the right things and nobody else is much. Except VW, but so far it is mostly talk. We're still a long way away from a Neo on Irish plates...

ted1 · 18-01-2019 10:46pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

They are screwed tbh

Wont be the only game in town for long

Sharks are closing in fast

How can they not make a profit selling high end Model 3s and have the cheapest batteries around?

They'll need to get a proper CEO in and give Musk something else to do, plan for Mars

Tbh it’s not unusual in manufacturing to cull numbers. They work in financial quarters. So will take on staff at towards the end of each quarter on a temp basis. They had to much permanent staff.

They spent billions on R and D and ramping up. That they are repaying that’s eating into profits

I worked in manufacturing for years and it’s standard practice

Mike9832 · 18-01-2019 11:55pm

unkel wrote: »

They are making a profit, Thierry. They need to maximise profit and cash inflow to finance expansion of Model 3 production, which will bring economies of scale, which should lead to a decent margin base Model 3

That's all exactly what I would expect Tesla to do at this stage. At this point saying that they're screwed is a pretty ridiculous remark. They're doing all the right things and nobody else is much. Except VW, but so far it is mostly talk. We're still a long way away from a Neo on Irish plates...

Now is when they should be making hay

No competition

High end Model 3s with huge margins in volume

They made big profits last quarter and didn't have much outlay in this one

Main outlay was 30% increase in workforce to get production to 7000 units a week

This quarter was supposed to be good

Next one has reduced federal tax in the States, demand is dropping in the US, only so many can afford 60k Model 3s

China and EU deliveries not the same margin, transport costs, reassembling, China tough market

It's only my opinion but I think signs don't look good and Tesla Model 3 35k is years off if they can't make money on 60k Model 3s

Mike9832 · 19-01-2019 12:00am

ted1 wrote: »

Tbh it’s not unusual in manufacturing to cull numbers. They work in financial quarters. So will take on staff at towards the end of each quarter on a temp basis. They had to much permanent staff.

They spent billions on R and D and ramping up. That they are repaying that’s eating into profits

I worked in manufacturing for years and it’s standard practice

Agree

Hiring is no issue

They'll just hire again when volume dictates

Rinse and repeat

Not making a big profit again is the worrying thing

Corner turned etc

josip · 19-01-2019 12:59am

If it's standard in the industry why did the share price fall by 13%?
Or was that unrelated?

Johnboy1951 · 19-01-2019 1:52am

It is one thing culling numbers to cut the outlay, but how do they propose to increase output with so much less staff?

Mike9832 · 19-01-2019 2:10am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It is one thing culling numbers to cut the outlay, but how do they propose to increase output with so much less staff?

Robots

Johnboy1951 · 19-01-2019 2:15am

Mike9832 wrote: »

Robots

Are they already on line and in use?
If not he might have another disaster on his hands.
It would seem prudent to phase them in and let workers go when the robots are working at full capacity (or close).

The robots cannot take over from workers overnight unless already in position and set up.

Mike9832 · 19-01-2019 2:21am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Are they already on line and in use?
If not he might have another disaster on his hands.
It would seem prudent to phase them in and let workers go when the robots are working at full capacity (or close).

The robots cannot take over from workers overnight unless already in position and set up.

Original plan was to use automation for battery lines, robots were bad

Didn't work out so they hired alot of humans ( what Musk call us)

New automated battery line is supposed to be ready now or soon

Mike9832 · 19-01-2019 2:25am

josip wrote: »

If it's standard in the industry why did the share price fall by 13%?
Or was that unrelated?

About 1 billion in cash needed in 6 weeks has them scared too

Tesla getting desperate now

Raising supercharger prices

https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/tesla-increases-supercharger-prices/#disqus_thread

At 32c/kWh might as well drive a petrol

Especially in the States at 50c a litre

ted1 · 19-01-2019 8:18am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It is one thing culling numbers to cut the outlay, but how do they propose to increase output with so much less staff?

Efficiency, automation temp staff.
They ranked up production last year and obviously having never made that number cars ramped up staff numbers. They took on more than necessary and are just settling with the core staff required

ted1 · 19-01-2019 8:20am

Mike9832 wrote: »

About 1 billion in cash needed in 6 weeks has them scared too

Tesla getting desperate now

Raising supercharger prices

https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/tesla-increases-supercharger-prices/#disqus_thread

At 32c/kWh might as well drive a petrol

Especially in the States at 50c a litre

They sold 246,000 cars last year. The super chargers must be at max capacity so they can afford to increase prices to curtail the number using and reinvest in more

dmcg90 · 19-01-2019 12:01pm

I thought Tesla's belief was superchargers are designed for long distance travel, not an everyday charge. Most people should/will charge from home where rates are much cheaper - even more so with solar/battery storage.

I'd be fine with the move myself. Looking on Reddit at some of the queues, it makes sense.

Mike9832 wrote: »

josip wrote: »

If it's standard in the industry why did the share price fall by 13%?
Or was that unrelated?

About 1 billion in cash needed in 6 weeks has them scared too

Tesla getting desperate now

Raising supercharger prices

https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/tesla-increases-supercharger-prices/#disqus_thread

At 32c/kWh might as well drive a petrol

Especially in the States at 50c a litre

unkel · 19-01-2019 5:46pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

At 32c/kWh might as well drive a petrol

Bull. Almost all EV charging is done at home at 8c/kWh. The occasional time where you need to fast charge publicly it doesn't really matter how much it costs. In fact 32c/kWh is very cheap. The norm in the EU (Fastned NL pricing without subscription) is 59c/kWh

tedpan · 19-01-2019 5:58pm

unkel wrote:

Sold already. What was the asking price?

Not sold, relisted at the same price

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F292925133755

Mike9832 · 19-01-2019 6:08pm

unkel wrote: »

Bull. Almost all EV charging is done at home at 8c/kWh. The occasional time where you need to fast charge publicly it doesn't really matter how much it costs. In fact 32c/kWh is very cheap. The norm in the EU (Fastned NL pricing without subscription) is 59c/kWh

Do we have fuel for 50c a litre here?

Nice

ED E · 19-01-2019 6:13pm

Rich Rebuilds latest video on the 2nd hand buying story is interesting. Seems Tesla are still really losing out from the lack of motor industry experience. Making a balls of simple things.

They sold 246,000 cars last year. The super chargers must be at max capacity so they can afford to increase prices to curtail the number using and reinvest in more

As above superchargers are not designed for daily use and your car can get barred if you overuse them (according to the AMA). Lots of 'muricans have cheaper leccy than us too.

unkel · 19-01-2019 7:14pm

tedpan wrote: »

Not sold, relisted at the same price

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F292925133755

And gone again.

What's going on here?

tedpan · 20-01-2019 1:06am

unkel wrote:

And gone again.

unkel wrote:

What's going on here?

I just noticed, very strange. Could be a scam for a deposit??

unkel · 20-01-2019 1:09am

Seller has 624(100%) feedback and is on eBay for 16 years. Hardly a scam?

SlowBlowin · 20-01-2019 1:19am

unkel wrote: »

Seller has 624(100%) feedback and is on eBay for 16 years. Hardly a scam?

It is odd how he operates, look at his other auctions !

He has 4 listings for 2 rings, 4 different prices ?

SB

macnab · 20-01-2019 2:54am

Click bait id say

jarrieta · 27-02-2019 10:02pm

Browsing idly this evening found this https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201902154958462 love the colour, upgraded to 75Kwh it is 48k pounds, facelift model, don't like too much the pre-facelift 'grill'.

What do people think? How to know if it has AP2 or AP1 hardware? I would say it is 1 as I cannot see the side cameras, but there is no close up picture.

Any opinions? Price sounds good for a facelift model with AP enabled and a few nice extras, RWD though, but not a big deal for Ireland

unkel · 27-02-2019 11:07pm

jarrieta wrote: »

How to know if it has AP2 or AP1 hardware?

HW2 is on cars produced from November 2016. 66 reg is Sept '16 - Mar '17. So could be either. Ask for the date of registration of the car. If it is February 2017 then most likely HW2. But I guess only the VIN would give certainty. Or maybe someone more knowledgeable on here can spot a physical feature that gives it away

Nice car, good price, having only 60kWh and only RWD wouldn't bother me a bit. Big question though, how much would the VRT be? Not in the calculator and ncts won't say. You will get hit with a bill that you must pay. You can fight it later, but no guarantees the bill will go down.

ELM327 · 28-02-2019 9:46am

unkel wrote: »

HW2 is on cars produced from November 2016. 66 reg is Sept '16 - Mar '17. So could be either. Ask for the date of registration of the car. If it is February 2017 then most likely HW2. But I guess only the VIN would give certainty. Or maybe someone more knowledgeable on here can spot a physical feature that gives it away

Nice car, good price, having only 60kWh and only RWD wouldn't bother me a bit. Big question though, how much would the VRT be? Not in the calculator and ncts won't say. You will get hit with a bill that you must pay. You can fight it later, but no guarantees the bill will go down.

There's a few subtle differences

28-02-2019 10:35am

What about buying a Model S out of warranty ? that would be mu greatest fear and getting it fixed, parts availability etc.

What's the warranty on them anyway , think it's years drivetrain or battery , both ? the other technical bits would be horribly expensive to fix I would be sure.

ELM327 · 28-02-2019 10:52am

Deleted User wrote: »

What about buying a Model S out of warranty ? that would be mu greatest fear and getting it fixed, parts availability etc.

What's the warranty on them anyway , think it's years drivetrain or battery , both ? the other technical bits would be horribly expensive to fix I would be sure.

8 years unlimited miles warranty on battery and drivetrain

first ones out of warranty in RHD will not be until 2022

Tesla Model S

Comments